Biggest Mistake of my Life!

[starlight7]

whoa - there are some very cross people on here.

[Chortlepuss]

Yes it should - I agree.

Excellent post - and to the OP, the only reason I got work in Brisbane was because I worked via an IT consultancy - the Aussie frontmen did all the smarming up to clients and I just had to do the work - I'm experienced and competent at what I do and my employers knew that and really appreciated it but I find trying to prove yourself in an environment where overseas experience, gender, age but mostly your accent are used against you extremely frustrating. I call Brisbane a relationship based work culture and UK leans more to practical experience - on one hand you can use it to your benefit (I did assignments I'd not have the chance to in the UK) but on the other hand it's really challenging when someone with much lesser skills than you gets the roles you want. If you're not a naturally extrovert person (I'm not) getting through the door can be really difficult. Having the gift of the gab and being able to be sycophantic in a subtle way will count for a lot more than many years practical experience. Culturally this is really confronting (and much worse in Brisbane than say Melbourne according to Aussie mates who have moved from Brisbane) but it's not stopping any time soon!

[akiralx]

If you're not a naturally extrovert person (I'm not) getting through the door can be really difficult. Having the gift of the gab and being able to be sycophantic in a subtle way will count for a lot more than many years practical experience. Culturally this is really confronting (and much worse in Brisbane than say Melbourne according to Aussie mates who have moved from Brisbane) but it's not stopping any time soon!

 

Yes, this is a major issue - if you are not outgoing you will struggle in Aus in my view. And if you are in any way cerebral you will be viewed with outright suspicion by most folk...

 

Financial services (where I work) is very blokey, cliquey, backslapping banter-y (new staff are usually introduced with 'he's a <insert AFL team> fan, but we won't hold that against him, hur hur..'), a testosterone-fuelled competition with a smattering of casual racism thrown in...

[Lambethlad]

And yet they still come! Why? Probably because in spite of everything, Australia is still a much nicer place than the UK.

[VERYSTORMY]

And yet they still come! Why? Probably because in spite of everything, Australia is still a much nicer place than the UK.

 

It is on the TV, but that's about all

[Quinkla]

And yet they still come! Why? Probably because in spite of everything, Australia is still a much nicer place than the UK.

Evidenced by the fact that Australians never feel the urge to move to Europe.

[Guest]

'If you rely on your rank or grade to make things happen, you will have no traction.'

 

I am over 50 years old mate. I have worked in the USA, Germany and the UK. No problems. I wasnt relying on my rank at all. That's very patronising, and if you want me to be decisive I will. Sling your hook! I was just trying to do my job. Sorry. Australians play games and I got tired of it. It's childish. It's pathetic. We are not at work to play games, we are there to achieve things, but so often I saw what you describe which was some overblown ego with a huge inferiority complex exercising school playground type tactics. A country of 24 million people and what are its globally famous brands? What are its inventions? Not all that much, because the workplace is more about who you know, and playground antics. Turnbull has put by $1bn for innovation. What a laugh. He needs $10bn just on management training. There will never be any innovation where ideas are squashed in favour of personal short term gain which is what I saw more than anything else.

 

Cochlear implant pretty good invention...

 

Should Google Aussie inventions they seem to be punch above their weight particularly in health.

[Guest]

This is the best post I have ever read. This should be framed, and new immigrants should be made to memorise it. Well done.

 

Absolutely. I once went to the Immigration Museum in Melbourne and read accounts similar to this, but nothing as good. Terrific writing.

[Sassy Duck]

I too have lost almost all of my savings. I am not actually an electrician. I met one at Cottesloe beach who was working as a driving instructor while he was a having a ciggie break, and I was taking pictures....we got chatting and we compared notes. He was a driving instructor because he couldn’t get a job as an electrician! I was disappointed that his story was almost the same as mine. Even more so after experiencing so many electrical failures, bangs, sparks, shorts...most houses are like a 15 year old has wired them. It is pathetic. And then they say the UK qualification 'isn’t to Australian standards'. They are quite right. Australian standards are rarely up to UK standards in any field.

 

I am actually an Accountant, and the work I got was ridiculous. It was an insult. The money was less, they took no notice of my experience, they took no notice of my qualifications, and they didn’t know what they were doing half the time. I applied for a Senior role in Darwin, and after 3 interviews in Perth with a non-Aussie who was the CFO, everyone thought the job was mine. Then I went for a final meeting with the Operational Manager in Darwin who was an Aussie. He looked as if he hadn’t started shaving yet, and there was still moisture behind his ears. No shortage of arrogance, ahem, I mean confidence though. Way too much actually. (No doubt he knew the 1001 racist joke handbook many managers seem to learn in WA at school.) One question he asked was what I would do if I were to start. So I explained. He said 'I don’t like it when Accountants interfere with my numbers'. That was it. He blocked my recruitment, and he is still there. He must know someone. This happens a lot in Australia. It isn’t what you know, it is who you know.

 

I have been in the UK just two weeks contemplating my future, and it is a different world. Already I don’t think it is very likely I will ever go back to Australia. My contempt is growing by the day.

 

My advice to anyone thinking of going is this. If you are unemployed, and have nothing to lose, try it. If you have a job, a house and a car, DON’T GO. Take extra holidays to Spain etc if you want some more sun. You won’t be able to when you are there. When you live in Oz the holidays are Bali or stay in Australia. Longhaul trips will probablybe to the UK to see those you left behind, and will be costly, and too short.

 

If you must go, plan it so you have an easy exit strategy, and don’t export your lifes possessions. Keep your house and rent it out. Don’t wait to use up your lifes savings. Make a list of things to check on before you go. I mean things like:

 

1. Am I happy

2. Is it what I hoped

3. Is the work right

4. Is the work paying well

5. Where am I financially compared to where I would be if I hadn’t come

6. What do I like about my new home

7. Is this really making my life better

8.

 

And things like this. Make your own list of frank questions.

 

I was so keen to tell everyone in the UK how good it all was, I started believing my own bullshit.

 

Make sure you don’t lose touch with reality as your life savings evaporate. I did!

 

The whole proposition is bullshit. Jobs are hard to get for non-Aussies, the pay is usually less, cars cost double, housing in a nice area is expensive, everything is expensive. People say nice things, but are usually being two-faced.

 

In the years I was there, the only people I ever saw who clearly benefitted were those who had little when they left. Australia gives those with few skills and brain cells but who make the right noises a chance. If you have something to offer, they see you as a threat, and it will all be uphill.

 

I am going to write all my experiences down, but it will be a book.

 

If you think moving there is going to make your life better, think again. The only way it made my life better was to realise what I had before I went. Now I will find it very hard just to get back to where I was, never mind be where I would have been if I had stayed in the UK, and never mind my savings going down the drain.

 

That may be your experience but definitely not mine, one size doesn't fit all.

[bristolman]

And yet they still come! Why? Probably because in spite of everything, Australia is still a much nicer place than the UK.

 

No its not.

[newjez]

And yet they still come! Why? Probably because in spite of everything, Australia is still a much nicer place than the UK.

 

 

Change is as good as a rest. My nephew will be coming to UK when he graduates. Doesn't need to. He has a job, and they will upgrade him when he gets his degree. Just wants to work abroad for a bit.

[Ferrets]

My advice to anyone thinking of going is this. If you are unemployed, and have nothing to lose, try it. If you have a job, a house and a car, DON’T GO. Take extra holidays to Spain etc if you want some more sun. You won’t be able to when you are there. When you live in Oz the holidays are Bali or stay in Australia. Longhaul trips will probablybe to the UK to see those you left behind, and will be costly, and too short.

 

If you must go, plan it so you have an easy exit strategy, and don’t export your lifes possessions. Keep your house and rent it out. Don’t wait to use up your lifes savings. Make a list of things to check on before you go. I mean things like:

 

 

The problem with this advice is that if you keep your house in the UK you never really commit fully to the integration and the Australian way of life. We are going into this with the view that we will become Australians, in heart not just by paper.

 

I agree that it seems that lots of people don't do their research properly, but that doesn't mean that your experiences will be the same for all. We have done a lot of planning, and will have far more financial stability and security post move.

 

It might not work for us. It could cost us money making the move (and back again if that is the case). But if we don't try that would be the biggest regret for us.

 

Would you rather be in the position of trying and knowing that Australia wasn't for you or not trying and then always regretting it? My parent's biggest regret is that they didn't emigrate ~40 years ago due to family pressure and it has always stuck with them.

[bristolman]

I do agree, don't look at anything like this as a mistake, it's an experience. We wouldn't change anything we have done over the years, it has provided us with great memories from both countries. Onwards and upwords.

[Bungo]

I too have lost almost all of my savings. I am not actually an electrician. I met one at Cottesloe beach who was working as a driving instructor while he was a having a ciggie break, and I was taking pictures....we got chatting and we compared notes. He was a driving instructor because he couldn’t get a job as an electrician! I was disappointed that his story was almost the same as mine. Even more so after experiencing so many electrical failures, bangs, sparks, shorts...most houses are like a 15 year old has wired them. It is pathetic. And then they say the UK qualification 'isn’t to Australian standards'. They are quite right. Australian standards are rarely up to UK standards in any field.

 

I am actually an Accountant, and the work I got was ridiculous. It was an insult. The money was less, they took no notice of my experience, they took no notice of my qualifications, and they didn’t know what they were doing half the time. I applied for a Senior role in Darwin, and after 3 interviews in Perth with a non-Aussie who was the CFO, everyone thought the job was mine. Then I went for a final meeting with the Operational Manager in Darwin who was an Aussie. He looked as if he hadn’t started shaving yet, and there was still moisture behind his ears. No shortage of arrogance, ahem, I mean confidence though. Way too much actually. (No doubt he knew the 1001 racist joke handbook many managers seem to learn in WA at school.) One question he asked was what I would do if I were to start. So I explained. He said 'I don’t like it when Accountants interfere with my numbers'. That was it. He blocked my recruitment, and he is still there. He must know someone. This happens a lot in Australia. It isn’t what you know, it is who you know.

 

I have been in the UK just two weeks contemplating my future, and it is a different world. Already I don’t think it is very likely I will ever go back to Australia. My contempt is growing by the day.

 

My advice to anyone thinking of going is this. If you are unemployed, and have nothing to lose, try it. If you have a job, a house and a car, DON’T GO. Take extra holidays to Spain etc if you want some more sun. You won’t be able to when you are there. When you live in Oz the holidays are Bali or stay in Australia. Longhaul trips will probablybe to the UK to see those you left behind, and will be costly, and too short.

 

If you must go, plan it so you have an easy exit strategy, and don’t export your lifes possessions. Keep your house and rent it out. Don’t wait to use up your lifes savings. Make a list of things to check on before you go. I mean things like:

 

1. Am I happy

2. Is it what I hoped

3. Is the work right

4. Is the work paying well

5. Where am I financially compared to where I would be if I hadn’t come

6. What do I like about my new home

7. Is this really making my life better

8.

 

And things like this. Make your own list of frank questions.

 

I was so keen to tell everyone in the UK how good it all was, I started believing my own bullshit.

 

Make sure you don’t lose touch with reality as your life savings evaporate. I did!

 

The whole proposition is bullshit. Jobs are hard to get for non-Aussies, the pay is usually less, cars cost double, housing in a nice area is expensive, everything is expensive. People say nice things, but are usually being two-faced.

 

In the years I was there, the only people I ever saw who clearly benefitted were those who had little when they left. Australia gives those with few skills and brain cells but who make the right noises a chance. If you have something to offer, they see you as a threat, and it will all be uphill.

 

I am going to write all my experiences down, but it will be a book.

 

If you think moving there is going to make your life better, think again. The only way it made my life better was to realise what I had before I went. Now I will find it very hard just to get back to where I was, never mind be where I would have been if I had stayed in the UK, and never mind my savings going down the drain.

 

I agree with your last paragraph, don't move to make life better. It always makes me cringe when people cite that as their reason for moving and I firmly believe life is only different not better or worse. Although life overall can be enriched for having the experience of living in and exploring a different country. But nobody should assume that day to day life is better.

 

As to the rest of your post, well I think this is just your personal experience that unfortunately things did not work out for you. I am also an accountant, I was interviewed by three Aussies and the salary they offered me without any quibbling was higher than I had originally understood to be top of the range for the role. They were delighted to get my UK / London experience in the door too. This was 2010, the market is tougher now generally I know.

 

When we left UK we had plenty to be happy about too. Jobs and house we liked, nothing to complain about. We managed to pay off the UK mortgage whilst we were in Australia due to the weak pound for much of the time, but possibly we could have done that anyway. We did not gain financially fro moving to Australia, especially factoring in the huge expense of moving there and moving back again last year. But equally we didn't move thinking we would make a financial gain, we moved for the experience.

 

We did keep our house, mainly because of economic factors, bad time to sell and bad time to move money. I couldn't justify making such a loss on both counts. I am not sorry that we did not sell, in fact now we are in a good spot being back here in a house we love and mortgage free. However I think it is true that hanging on to the house gives you that reason or excuse to go back, not that it should be an endurance test, but I think had we sold the house we would have had a very different decision to make with less bias for one location over the other. I think for a family moving over, selling the house might make more sense as moving backwards and forwards with children is maybe not as easy as us moving two adults and pets.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Bungo

[Johnny]

'How long have you been in Australia AdrianPom?'

 

I just dont know how I got so far without them in all my jobs before I arrived in Oz,.

 

I worked in 15 countries with absolutely no problems.

 

In my early days starting in my first Australian job, I solved a problem in less than 30 minutes which the 3 other Australian engineers at my company had been working on finding a solution to for over 2 months with no success. The solution was so simple it was staring them right smack in the face.

 

Thought I had done a great job but I paid a very high price for it and it made me very unpopular, hated by everyone from management right down to the receptionist. I had to deal with TPS (tall poppy syndrome) for a long time until I moved on to work in another equally unsatisfying backward thinking company with even more over inflated fragile egotistical losers.

 

Anyone with vision, creativity, drive & ambition should keep well clear.

 

I will say it again, if you have a good stable career/job/income, a home, good friends, a loving family around you in UK - that as good as it ever gets in life.

 

DO NOT throw all of that away to go to that place.

 

The electrician I knew who could only get work packing carrots before he threw the towel in and came home would say the same thing to you also.

[Gbye grey sky]

I worked in 15 countries with absolutely no problems.

 

In my early days starting in my first Australian job, I solved a problem in less than 30 minutes which the 3 other Australian engineers at my company had been working on finding a solution to for over 2 months with no success. The solution was so simple it was staring them right smack in the face.

 

Thought I had done a great job but I paid a very high price for it and it made me very unpopular, hated by everyone from management right down to the receptionist. I had to deal with TPS (tall poppy syndrome) for a long time until I moved on to work in another equally unsatisfying backward thinking company with even more over inflated fragile egotistical losers.

 

Anyone with vision, creativity, drive & ambition should keep well clear.

 

I will say it again, if you have a good stable career/job/income, a home, good friends, a loving family around you in UK - that as good as it ever gets in life.

 

DO NOT throw all of that away to go to that place.

 

The electrician I knew who could only get work packing carrots before he threw the towel in and came home would say the same thing to you also.

 

It must be difficult settling in a new country if you have such a huge ego.

 

Really your new colleagues should have bowed down before you worshipping the ground you walked on. They really did not fully appreciate that they were in the presence of greatness. Now it is their loss (and Australia's) that they will somehow have to manage without you.

[Sassy Duck]

It must be difficult settling in a new country if you have such a huge ego.

 

Really your new colleagues should have bowed down before you worshipping the ground you walked on. They really did not fully appreciate that they were in the presence of greatness. Now it is their loss (and Australia's) that they will somehow have to manage without you.

:laugh:

[Celt Down Under]

No its not.

:biglaugh:

[Quoll]

It must be difficult settling in a new country if you have such a huge ego.

 

Really your new colleagues should have bowed down before you worshipping the ground you walked on. They really did not fully appreciate that they were in the presence of greatness. Now it is their loss (and Australia's) that they will somehow have to manage without you.

 

How very unpleasant of you. No wonder you will fit right in.

[Gbye grey sky]

How very unpleasant of you. No wonder you will fit right in.

 

Is the ability to spot bullshit a requirement for fitting in? If so, maybe you are right.

[Keith and Linda]

Is the ability to spot bullshit a requirement for fitting in? If so, maybe you are right.

 

Yep you spotted that one straight away, must say I re-read the post after first thinking there was a bit of arrogance mixed with bitterness, but yes calling it bull helps one fit in:notworthy:

[Quoll]

Is the ability to spot bullshit a requirement for fitting in? If so, maybe you are right.

No, the ability to bully with impunity. If you haven't encountered TPS and workplace bullying in Australia then you are very lucky.

[Keith and Linda]

No, the ability to bully with impunity. If you haven't encountered TPS and workplace bullying in Australia then you are very lucky.

 

There's an awful lot of very lucky people out there I reckon, though I do feel sorry for those that are exposed to it, having some experience at a very localized level and by small group of relatively new employees whom thought they knew better, I am still here whilst most of the others have gone (sacked).

[Quoll]

There's an awful lot of very lucky people out there I reckon, though I do feel sorry for those that are exposed to it, having some experience at a very localized level and by small group of relatively new employees whom thought they knew better, I am still here whilst most of the others have gone (sacked).

 

I'm sure there are organizations where it is not endemic and for the first 20 years of my working life (and longer for my Aussie DH) it wasn't an issue but the last 10 it became much much worse. I saw very bright, very nice team working people brought low and quitting because of systemic bullying and generally because they were considerably more competent than their managers. The first time I encountered it I thought it was an aberration but then I discovered it more and more to be standard workplace practice and in a range of workplaces although mainly government and NFP from my own experience - from talking to other victims in other networks however it is not just gov and NFP.

 

For all I know, the bloke may be an absolute tosser with an ego the size of Texas but his experience does not make him a billshitter and to label him thus is just compounding the bullying culture - I've seen it happen to too many nice bright people with no migrant axe to grind. If reframing it the way he has done is a survival strategy for him then good on him - far better than the nice young lass I've met who attempted suicide because of the treatment she met in her "respectful" workplace.

 

As I said, if you haven't yet been targeted by a bully in the workplace you're doing well. If you ever are, I hope you have the strength to deal with it and protect yourself.

[Gbye grey sky]

I'm sure there are organizations where it is not endemic and for the first 20 years of my working life (and longer for my Aussie DH) it wasn't an issue but the last 10 it became much much worse. I saw very bright, very nice team working people brought low and quitting because of systemic bullying and generally because they were considerably more competent than their managers. The first time I encountered it I thought it was an aberration but then I discovered it more and more to be standard workplace practice and in a range of workplaces although mainly government and NFP from my own experience - from talking to other victims in other networks however it is not just gov and NFP.

 

For all I know, the bloke may be an absolute tosser with an ego the size of Texas but his experience does not make him a billshitter and to label him thus is just compounding the bullying culture - I've seen it happen to too many nice bright people with no migrant axe to grind. If reframing it the way he has done is a survival strategy for him then good on him - far better than the nice young lass I've met who attempted suicide because of the treatment she met in her "respectful" workplace.

 

As I said, if you haven't yet been targeted by a bully in the workplace you're doing well. If you ever are, I hope you have the strength to deal with it and protect yourself.

 

Sorry, but making up a cock and bull story does no service whatsoever to people who have suffered, or who are suffering workplace bullying anywhere in the world. I did experience a bullying culture at one place I worked in the UK and though I knew I could handle it the job was **** anyway so I left after 4 months.

 

Anyway the post itself doesn't warrant the serious consideration you are giving it.