Biggest Mistake of my Life!

[AdrianPom]

I too have lost almost all of my savings. I am not actually an electrician. I met one at Cottesloe beach who was working as a driving instructor while he was a having a ciggie break, and I was taking pictures....we got chatting and we compared notes. He was a driving instructor because he couldn’t get a job as an electrician! I was disappointed that his story was almost the same as mine. Even more so after experiencing so many electrical failures, bangs, sparks, shorts...most houses are like a 15 year old has wired them. It is pathetic. And then they say the UK qualification 'isn’t to Australian standards'. They are quite right. Australian standards are rarely up to UK standards in any field.

 

I am actually an Accountant, and the work I got was ridiculous. It was an insult. The money was less, they took no notice of my experience, they took no notice of my qualifications, and they didn’t know what they were doing half the time. I applied for a Senior role in Darwin, and after 3 interviews in Perth with a non-Aussie who was the CFO, everyone thought the job was mine. Then I went for a final meeting with the Operational Manager in Darwin who was an Aussie. He looked as if he hadn’t started shaving yet, and there was still moisture behind his ears. No shortage of arrogance, ahem, I mean confidence though. Way too much actually. (No doubt he knew the 1001 racist joke handbook many managers seem to learn in WA at school.) One question he asked was what I would do if I were to start. So I explained. He said 'I don’t like it when Accountants interfere with my numbers'. That was it. He blocked my recruitment, and he is still there. He must know someone. This happens a lot in Australia. It isn’t what you know, it is who you know.

 

I have been in the UK just two weeks contemplating my future, and it is a different world. Already I don’t think it is very likely I will ever go back to Australia. My contempt is growing by the day.

 

My advice to anyone thinking of going is this. If you are unemployed, and have nothing to lose, try it. If you have a job, a house and a car, DON’T GO. Take extra holidays to Spain etc if you want some more sun. You won’t be able to when you are there. When you live in Oz the holidays are Bali or stay in Australia. Longhaul trips will probablybe to the UK to see those you left behind, and will be costly, and too short.

 

If you must go, plan it so you have an easy exit strategy, and don’t export your lifes possessions. Keep your house and rent it out. Don’t wait to use up your lifes savings. Make a list of things to check on before you go. I mean things like:

 

1. Am I happy

2. Is it what I hoped

3. Is the work right

4. Is the work paying well

5. Where am I financially compared to where I would be if I hadn’t come

6. What do I like about my new home

7. Is this really making my life better

8.

 

And things like this. Make your own list of frank questions.

 

I was so keen to tell everyone in the UK how good it all was, I started believing my own bullshit.

 

Make sure you don’t lose touch with reality as your life savings evaporate. I did!

 

The whole proposition is bullshit. Jobs are hard to get for non-Aussies, the pay is usually less, cars cost double, housing in a nice area is expensive, everything is expensive. People say nice things, but are usually being two-faced.

 

In the years I was there, the only people I ever saw who clearly benefitted were those who had little when they left. Australia gives those with few skills and brain cells but who make the right noises a chance. If you have something to offer, they see you as a threat, and it will all be uphill.

 

I am going to write all my experiences down, but it will be a book.

 

If you think moving there is going to make your life better, think again. The only way it made my life better was to realise what I had before I went. Now I will find it very hard just to get back to where I was, never mind be where I would have been if I had stayed in the UK, and never mind my savings going down the drain.

[thl4kel]

Beachbum - just mention to your husband how you are feeling and how being away from your parents is just too hard. Just tell him you need to go back, your not the first one to do it and at the end of the day you have lost some cash doing it but if your not happy then, why waste any further time being unhappy. Ask yourself if i stay a year am I go to feel any different?

[Quinkla]

Australia gives those with few skills and brain cells but who make the right noises a chance. If you have something to offer, they see you as a threat, and it will all be uphill.

I can see what you mean, but I think it's more nuanced than this. Australians don;t think or behave like Poms (why should they?). They do not like weakness. If you are deferential, you will be chewed up and spat out. If you rely on your rank or grade to make things happen, you will have no traction. You have to be a mixture of decisive and matey. Australians do want their people to be successful - so it's not quite the tall poppy syndrome - but you have to be able to do it without appearing to try too hard. There will be showdowns, often on stupid things, and these can be career defining: if you are perceived to be weak, you'll lose and be next out of the door; if you are perceived to be strong, you'll get what you want quickly. It's not that people with low skill sets succeed, it's that in many roles, charisma and people skills are far more valuable than technical knowledge because bringing people with you is such a big challenge.

[AdrianPom]

I can see what you mean, but I think it's more nuanced than this. Australians don;t think or behave like Poms (why should they?). They do not like weakness. If you are deferential, you will be chewed up and spat out. If you rely on your rank or grade to make things happen, you will have no traction. You have to be a mixture of decisive and matey. Australians do want their people to be successful - so it's not quite the tall poppy syndrome - but you have to be able to do it without appearing to try too hard. There will be showdowns, often on stupid things, and these can be career defining: if you are perceived to be weak, you'll lose and be next out of the door; if you are perceived to be strong, you'll get what you want quickly. It's not that people with low skill sets succeed, it's that in many roles, charisma and people skills are far more valuable than technical knowledge because bringing people with you is such a big challenge.

 

'If you rely on your rank or grade to make things happen, you will have no traction.'

 

I am over 50 years old mate. I have worked in the USA, Germany and the UK. No problems. I wasnt relying on my rank at all. That's very patronising, and if you want me to be decisive I will. Sling your hook! I was just trying to do my job. Sorry. Australians play games and I got tired of it. It's childish. It's pathetic. We are not at work to play games, we are there to achieve things, but so often I saw what you describe which was some overblown ego with a huge inferiority complex exercising school playground type tactics. A country of 24 million people and what are its globally famous brands? What are its inventions? Not all that much, because the workplace is more about who you know, and playground antics. Turnbull has put by $1bn for innovation. What a laugh. He needs $10bn just on management training. There will never be any innovation where ideas are squashed in favour of personal short term gain which is what I saw more than anything else.

[JockinTas]

I can see what you mean, but I think it's more nuanced than this. Australians don;t think or behave like Poms (why should they?). They do not like weakness. If you are deferential, you will be chewed up and spat out. If you rely on your rank or grade to make things happen, you will have no traction. You have to be a mixture of decisive and matey. Australians do want their people to be successful - so it's not quite the tall poppy syndrome - but you have to be able to do it without appearing to try too hard. There will be showdowns, often on stupid things, and these can be career defining: if you are perceived to be weak, you'll lose and be next out of the door; if you are perceived to be strong, you'll get what you want quickly. It's not that people with low skill sets succeed, it's that in many roles, charisma and people skills are far more valuable than technical knowledge because bringing people with you is such a big challenge.

 

Blimey! OH and I must have both then because we were never out of work in over 30 years :laugh: I think decisive and matey describes my OH plus hard working. Me, I was what my boss described as a quiet achiever.

[Quinkla]

I am over 50 years old mate...

My post was not intended to be personal and I'm sorry of you took it that way. I was merely offering an opinion that the oft cited tall poppy syndrome (and associated success of people with inferior skills) is more nuanced than people sometimes think.

 

I hope things work out for you.

[AdrianPom]

'it's that in many roles, charisma and people skills are far more valuable than technical knowledge'

 

Good luck at the Dentist. I hope he has lots of charisma as he fills the wrong tooth!

[calNgary]

My hubby arrived with skills well advanced of his Aussie trade equivalents but he is quite a humble guy, never strutted around with his chest puffed out or the i'm better than you attitude and its worked out well for him. He found adjusting in the work place a little frustrating at first until he got out of his UK mindset then he started training courses teaching others, to get them up to spec in his trade and has even travelled to other States to train 'lesser qualified' workers. Once or twice he has come across a few arrogant pupils but the majority are happy to listen and learn from this 'northern pom' and most are grateful for the time he spent with them.

 

Just shows all experiences are different and you cant tar Australia from a single experience.

 

Cal x

[JockinTas]

'it's that in many roles, charisma and people skills are far more valuable than technical knowledge'

 

Good luck at the Dentist. I hope he has lots of charisma as he fills the wrong tooth!

 

How long have you been in Australia AdrianPom? The only reason I ask is, I doubt if OH and I were new arrivals today we would have found it so easy to find decent jobs and buy a house as it was when we arrived many years ago. Things are changing and not for the better.

[AdrianPom]

Blimey! OH and I must have both then because we were never out of work in over 30 years :laugh: I think decisive and matey describes my OH plus hard working. Me, I was what my boss described as a quiet achiever.

 

'I think decisive and matey describes my OH plus hard working.'

 

It depends what you do. You can be decisive and matey and work hard, but if I am running a business, I want someone who actually delivers results. Sadly another thing I saw a lot of was brown nosing and lots of attendance, without it always converting to results. Not saying this is you, but I am saying when you are talking about stuff like 'decisive', 'matey' and 'hard working', if the wiring doesnt bloody work, being 'decisive', 'matey' and 'hard working' doesnt really cut it does it?

 

[AdrianPom]

My hubby arrived with skills well advanced of his Aussie trade equivalents but he is quite a humble guy, never strutted around with his chest puffed out or the i'm better than you attitude and its worked out well for him. He found adjusting in the work place a little frustrating at first until he got out of his UK mindset then he started training courses teaching others, to get them up to spec in his trade and has even travelled to other States to train 'lesser qualified' workers. Once or twice he has come across a few arrogant pupils but the majority are happy to listen and learn from this 'northern pom' and most are grateful for the time he spent with them.

 

 

 

Just shows all experiences are different and you cant tar Australia from a single experience.

 

Cal x

 

'He found adjusting in the work place a little frustrating at first until he got out of his UK mindset'

Yes. They tried to brainwash me but luckily I had worked in the USA and Germany beforehand, so I knew what was happening. It is also known as Stockholm Syndrome. :wacko:

[Quinkla]

It depends what you do. You can be decisive and matey and work hard, but if I am running a business, I want someone who actually delivers results. Sadly another thing I saw a lot of was brown nosing and lots of attendance, without it always converting to results. Not saying this is you, but I am saying when you are talking about stuff like 'decisive', 'matey' and 'hard working', if the wiring doesnt bloody work, being 'decisive', 'matey' and 'hard working' doesnt really cut it does it?

The thing is, you are telling us the way the world should be. When people have tried to hint at the way Australia actually is (and why it might be), you shoot them down in flames.

 

I know you must be hurting right now. But your own experience must suggest to you that there is a gap between the way the world should be and the way the world actually is. The people who seem to succeed are probably the ones who understand this gap and know how far they can move within it.

 

Sure, you want a dentist or an electrician who has a level of competence. But only if they are going to be able to get on with a workforce that can often be pretty defensive.

[JockinTas]

'He found adjusting in the work place a little frustrating at first until he got out of his UK mindset'

Yes. They tried to brainwash me but luckily I had worked in the USA and Germany beforehand, so I knew what was happening. It is also known as Stockholm Syndrome. :wacko:

 

Funny that ....................... I worked in the USA, France, Belgium and Switzerland before coming to Australia and didn't find any difference in attitude. Mind you, I didn't have a high falutin' job so maybe that made a difference.

[AdrianPom]

'How long have you been in Australia AdrianPom?'

 

Nearly 7 years mate, and I am safe in the UK now. I am reviewing the situation, and it is a tough call! Paradise or civilisation? I must go to bed now, else I will be rocking around the clock. I must reflect on my charisma and people skills. I just dont know how I got so far without them in all my jobs before I arrived in Oz, which of course is the only country in the world that knows how to do everything right..... said Brian sarcastically.

[AdrianPom]

Funny that ....................... I worked in the USA, France, Belgium and Switzerland before coming to Australia and didn't find any difference in attitude. Mind you, I didn't have a high falutin' job so maybe that made a difference.

 

'I didn't have a high falutin' job so maybe that made a difference'

 

Ah yes. And of course Australia is Egalitarian isnt it!

[Quinkla]

'I am reviewing the situation, and it is a tough call! Paradise or civilisation?

Unless you have a major change of perspective, I'd suggest returning to Australia would be disastrous. All the sun and surf in the world is nothing if you are unhappy.

[JockinTas]

'How long have you been in Australia AdrianPom?'

 

Nearly 7 years mate, and I am safe in the UK now. I am reviewing the situation, and it is a tough call! Paradise or civilisation? I must go to bed now, else I will be rocking around the clock. I must reflect on my charisma and people skills. I just dont know how I got so far without them in all my jobs before I arrived in Oz, which of course is the only country in the world that knows how to do everything right..... said Brian sarcastically.

 

Well at least you're back in the UK now so all is good. Reading through the "Moving back to the UK' threads .................................. there are loads of people who have also had really bad experiences of life in Australia. A lot of us have been lucky here though and have a good life.

[AdrianPom]

The thing is, you are telling us the way the world should be. When people have tried to hint at the way Australia actually is (and why it might be), you shoot them down in flames.

 

I know you must be hurting right now. But your own experience must suggest to you that there is a gap between the way the world should be and the way the world actually is. The people who seem to succeed are probably the ones who understand this gap and know how far they can move within it.

 

Sure, you want a dentist or an electrician who has a level of competence. But only if they are going to be able to get on with a workforce that can often be pretty defensive.

'The thing is, you are telling us the way the world should be.'

 

No I am not. I am just explaining what I found.

[AdrianPom]

Well at least you're back in the UK now so all is good. Reading through the "Moving back to the UK' threads .................................. there are loads of people who have also had really bad experiences of life in Australia. A lot of us have been lucky here though and have a good life.

 

'A lot of us have been lucky here though and have a good life.'

 

Yes. Some people survived The Hindenburg, but that didnt mean is was a success! :biglaugh:

[JockinTas]

'I didn't have a high falutin' job so maybe that made a difference'

 

Ah yes. And of course Australia is Egalitarian isnt it!

 

About as Egalitarian as most other countries I've found. I don't analyse people and places so much. I just take life as it comes. I'm content with life here - surely that's all that matters. I'm just a simple soul but I'm happy.

[JockinTas]

'A lot of us have been lucky here though and have a good life.'

 

Yes. Some people survived The Hindenburg, but that didnt mean is was a success! :biglaugh:

 

Off to bed with you AdrianPom. Things will look better in the morning :cool:

[newjez]

Maybe it's time people in Britain updated their impressions of Australia ? Many seem to come here from the UK because they want to believe the grass is greener in Oz. Some years ago, a woman still resident in the UK became close to feral in this forum at the mere suggestion life in Oz wasn't like the movie. She'd never been here and posted all the time with updates re: her family's progress as far as emigrating was concerned - ' only two more months', etc. And despite that she'd never stepped foot in Australia, she laid into anyone who as much as breathed they -- who were in Oz -- weren't as thrilled about the place as they'd expected to be. It was as if she thought that by controlling everyone else's opinion about Oz that she could keep her unrealistic dreams alive. And she had plenty of supporters here, almost as if there existed a gang whose very livelihood depended on being seen to be keeping the Oz myths alive

 

Sure, 50, 60 years ago, Poms made the big, exciting journey to Oz. Many were the talk of the village. Such a long journey - six weeks by ship. All those wonderful fresh foods, tropical fruits, everything so cheap compared with the old UK (which was still living on rations in the early 50s). Once here, they sent happy-snaps back home, showing themselves tanned, sitting on the beach. Of course, now we know a lot of it was sheer bravado. They knew those back home expected such photos and glowing accounts of Australia. Those UK pounds stretched a long way back then. And work was far easier to find then, compared to now. Sit, work and play in the sun long enough and sure, you'll develop a tan. Smiling for the camera takes a few seconds and what else would you do in a photo -- frown? So the myths about Australia grew out of proportion. And to cover the fact many early Poms in Oz had toilets consisting of stinking cans in an outside dunny and had cracked lino on the floors of their unheated weatherboard and fibro homes, those brave little Poms on Oz of decades ago made jokes, cracked hearty, kept a stiff upper lip and pretended they were loving it in Australia

 

The truth was a different story. As Pommy migrants, they copped a lot of stick just for being Pommies, and so did their kids. Work wasn't anywhere near as plentiful as the Aussie government was claiming to potential migrants who attended all those promotional film nights. The houses on offer in Oz were basic, infested with cockroaches, ants, spider and often - snakes. It was a huge country and travel expensive. Migrants had to really put effort into establishing friendships and were not swiftly accepted - and this is borne out not only in migrant tales recounted by Poms but by people from all over the world who'd taken a chance on Australia. Drink was the ice-breaker, the oil, so fine for drinkers and tough for those who expected a bit more from social encounters than Aussie men guzzling grog on one corner and the women in another, forced to chat about home and kids. Thousands of female migrants from the UK lived for years in a state of repressed depression, forcing themselves to be chirpy for the husband and kids. Most Poms in Oz back then for some reason told themselves they'd made their bed and must lie in it for life

 

Things are different now. It's no big deal to move to Oz - just a plane flight. Sure, a lengthy plane flight, but it's just a trip when all's said and done. It's not like Colombus sailing into the unknown, the way it used to be regarded. It's time other myths were put to bed too. Australia hasn't been 'cheap' for a long, long time. The Aussie mateship beliefs belong on tv, in fiction such as Neighbours. After all, do Poms expect to see real-life Donald Ducks or Mickey Mouses and movie stars all over the US? No. They're movies, entertainment. And so are the unrealistic expectations about Australia, although, granted, the Australian government capitalises on desperate Poms in the UK and their wish that Australia be some sort of cheap, tropical fruit and beach-filled Shangri-la

 

There's internet now. Every single aspect of Australia is accessible online, from the prices of houses, travel distances, schools, welfare-provisions, educational standards, the price of eggs and tea-bags, the weather generally and temperatures for every single part of this massive chunk of rock in the south-pacific. Migrating to Australia can no longer be likened to a voyage into the unknown. So why aren't Poms availing themselves of the million pieces of information at their fingertips while they're still right there in the UK?

 

Answer: because in the case of many -- they don't want to ! They don't want to know ! They don't want to face or accept reality !

 

The Big Adventure ! I'd be rich if I had a cent for every time I've read that term in his and similar forums

 

When the more appropriate term should be -- ' Our huge investment in time, money, effort and energy '

 

Poms in the UK need to toss old Uncle Fred's 1950s move to Australia in with all the other non-relevant bits and pieces lying around in the attic. It's 2015 now. Times change. Poms in the UK need to get up to date with Australia. They need to face facts - face the truth

 

There's not all that much difference these days between moving to Australia and moving to a new location in the UK or Europe. And putting all their eggs in one basket and flying to Oz on the seat of their pants is not intelligent, unless all the ground-work has been done first. And groundwork does not ONLY consist of applying to the Oz government and arranging transport for possessions and pets. There's a lot more to it than simply hopping on a plane and telling themselves that when they alight they'll be in paradise and all their troubles left behind them. No. Wherever we go, we take ourselves along with our bits and pieces. We aren't suddenly endowed with desirable personality traits and skills just because we step off a plane in Australia

 

Sure, the Australian government entices migrants. But the Australian pubic is not the Australian government, so Poms shouldn't expect Aussies to welcome even more competition for jobs, housing, road-space, etc., any more than Poms in the UK welcome the endless stream of migrants into the UK. So that's another bit of reality that Poms coming to Oz need to take into account

 

It's a real world and if Australia were even half as 'great' as some would have you believe, there would not -- to begin with -- be so many posts in this and other forums about wanting to, or thinking about, a return to the UK

 

This is the 2015 version of Australia here. Not the 1940s, or 1950s, or 1960s, or 1970s, 80s, 90s, etc. version

 

Things have changed in Australia. It's touted every second week by the mass media as THE most expensive place in the world as far as cost of living, housing, travel, etc, is concerned. That has to be faced, along with the very dismal truth about unemployment in Australia and the poor prospects for kids once they leave school

 

So Poms in the UK need to stop fantasising and start dealing with the truth about Australia. Yes, dreams and fantasies are nice, but Australia isn't going to provide them any more than anywhere else. Of course it rains and gets cold in Australia ! And be realistic, you Poms still in the UK --- you'll need to earn your living in Australia and you will not, most of you, spend endless hours on sunny beaches. You in the UK get the best of Aussie produce and you buy it cheaper than we here in Australia. Aldi is growing like a weed in Oz, just like in the UK. Why do you think that is? Right -- it's because Aldi is cheaper ! Why would Aussies be driving the growth of Aldi? Right again -- because Aussies want and need cheaper food. Why do they need and want cheaper food? Yes, right again -- because Aussies can't afford the more expensive foods. Then take a look at how many Aussies are forced to rent. Why are they forced to rent? Good, you're working it out now -- it's because houses are SO expensive that Aussies cannot afford to buy them. They WANT to own their own homes and something to leave to their children, but they can't AFFORD to buy. And those houses which Aussies CAN afford to buy are nowhere near the chance of employment

 

So there you are. Australia is VERY expensive and beyond the reach of most Aussies -- many of whom have been driven to move overseas in search of a better and more affordable existence

 

And back to where I began -- Poms still in the UK need to update their 'version' of Oz. They need to face the facts and reality. Hopping on a plane to Oz is not a magic carpet ride, nor is it the much touted 'Big Adventure'. It's costly. Once they move it may prove irreversible due to finances and other factors. So stop dreaming, you Poms in the UK. Australia is basically an isolated version of the UK. It costs a lot to get into Australia and a hell of a lot more to get out again, as many have learned to their pain

 

 

This is the best post I have ever read. This should be framed, and new immigrants should be made to memorise it. Well done.

[JockinTas]

This is the best post I have ever read. This should be framed, and new immigrants should be made to memorise it. Well done.

 

Yes it should - I agree.

[calNgary]

'He found adjusting in the work place a little frustrating at first until he got out of his UK mindset'

Yes. They tried to brainwash me but luckily I had worked in the USA and Germany beforehand, so I knew what was happening. It is also known as Stockholm Syndrome. :wacko:

 

and i think there lies your problem.... Adapting to a new country with different ways to what YOU think is the right way is not brainwashing,its changing your ways to experience something new, in hubby's case the change meant being a bit more hands on than he was but he embraced it and was respected for doing so. Hence he has gone on to manage one company and own 2 more !!

 

My way or the highway doesnt always work when migrating, not if you want to make success of the move anyway.

 

Cal x

[Quoll]

'If you rely on your rank or grade to make things happen, you will have no traction.'

 

I am over 50 years old mate. I have worked in the USA, Germany and the UK. No problems. I wasnt relying on my rank at all. That's very patronising, and if you want me to be decisive I will. Sling your hook! I was just trying to do my job. Sorry. Australians play games and I got tired of it. It's childish. It's pathetic. We are not at work to play games, we are there to achieve things, but so often I saw what you describe which was some overblown ego with a huge inferiority complex exercising school playground type tactics. A country of 24 million people and what are its globally famous brands? What are its inventions? Not all that much, because the workplace is more about who you know, and playground antics. Turnbull has put by $1bn for innovation. What a laugh. He needs $10bn just on management training. There will never be any innovation where ideas are squashed in favour of personal short term gain which is what I saw more than anything else.

 

You've highlighted a couple of things which I must certainly encountered - the Peter Principal is alive and well - I witnessed the promotion of incompetence more times than I want to remember. One time I went on leave for a couple of weeks with a colleague undergoing inefficiency proceedings and when I returned from leave, said colleague had been promoted out of the position they were being inefficient at into something considerably more "plum"! (They were good at brown nosing just not so much at doing the job they were paid to do!)

 

The corollary of that was the increase in bullying I saw over my last 10 years in the work force - it was almost epidemic at the end with good workers being victimised and driven out. I hadn't seen that at all at the start of my career but it seemed to be standard workplace practice in many organisations I encountered despite the Nanny like "we are a respectful environment" posters on the walls. I'm just very glad I no longer have to work!