The Brand New PIO Parents Visa thread

[Bridgeman]

12 hours ago, Kathss56 said:

It has gone to 15yrs now before you could claim a pension unless you work for 5yrs  I believe .? If you don’t work it’s 15 

 

Not necessarily:

https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/news/new-age-pension-eligibility-rules

 

 

[Ray and Geri]

Nice to see the  comments over the last few pages are back to giving information we might all find handy when we eventually get to Oz rather than moaning about how long it's taking to get our visas...... I think we all know by now that it's going to take as long as it takes and nothing we say or do will make the slightest difference. 

[Pertenhall]

10 hours ago, Kathss56 said:

Can she go visit them in person again?. If she has already been that is!

The problem is trying to get the time off work to either go in or telephone.  I think we'll get her to give it one more go before we contact the MP.

[Merryweather]

30 minutes ago, Ray and Geri said:

Nice to see the  comments over the last few pages are back to giving information we might all find handy when we eventually get to Oz rather than moaning about how long it's taking to get our visas...... I think we all know by now that it's going to take as long as it takes and nothing we say or do will make the slightest difference. 

I completely agree. 'It is what it is'

However, as most people do not have close friends, neighbours or family in the same situation - it's good to be able to share ones frustrations with others in the same boat!

But keep it in perspective - look at the rest of the world!!

[Pertenhall]

47 minutes ago, Ray and Geri said:

Nice to see the  comments over the last few pages are back to giving information we might all find handy when we eventually get to Oz rather than moaning about how long it's taking to get our visas...... I think we all know by now that it's going to take as long as it takes and nothing we say or do will make the slightest difference. 

I agree, but also it has been invaluable to see other people's progress and gain information on how to approach different stages of the application process.  A happy balance of information for the future and present is most welcome.

[Fisher1]

12 hours ago, newjez said:

Well - that's is how British people think. But in reality it's just another tax. I really doubt that they put any of that NI money to one side. Or if they don't have enough NI money - they stop paying pensions. It's all tax. 

I disagree. I can't believe they have a pot of money labelled 'state pension' that they put money into every month - far from it. But even if it's only on paper, it's important to acknowledge that the UK state pension is paid for - throughout our working lives and is NOT a handout given from the government.  There is a big difference and it needs to be acknowledged.

[Ferrets]

1 hour ago, Fisher1 said:

I disagree. I can't believe they have a pot of money labelled 'state pension' that they put money into every month - far from it. But even if it's only on paper, it's important to acknowledge that the UK state pension is paid for - throughout our working lives and is NOT a handout given from the government.  There is a big difference and it needs to be acknowledged.

But it isn't paid for; most people pay less into NI than they draw out through the pension.

It doesn't help because there is no "pot" and no individual account that tracks the value that an individual pays in (vs. the Aus Super system which is a personal account).

As a result, with the pension being paid out on the basis of number of years contribution rather than value contribution it can only be viewed as a benefit.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Ferrets

[ant111]

3 hours ago, Ray and Geri said:

Nice to see the  comments over the last few pages are back to giving information we might all find handy when we eventually get to Oz rather than moaning about how long it's taking to get our visas...... I think we all know by now that it's going to take as long as it takes and nothing we say or do will make the slightest difference. 

There's nothing wrong in talking about  timelines. It's good therapy.

[ant111]

Pertenhall  you should get your daughter to complain to the complaints dept of centrelink again on the number I sent you. You should have had a response last time within their 10 day limit. She's best  to call her  the time I said .

I finally got my AOS accepted after nearly seven months, but our daughter had to be persistent with them and the complaints dept. I also had to get a co-assurer because our daughter put a tax return in for her mat year. This then had to be the one they count. They lost the co assurerrs ID, They were waiting for the bond proof , when they already had it. Absolute nightmare. 

I believe there is about twenty weeks to interview after application, but you are justified to complain again to the complaints dept especially when they didnt reply to you within ten days last time you complained.

[SusieRoo]

2 hours ago, Fisher1 said:

I disagree. I can't believe they have a pot of money labelled 'state pension' that they put money into every month - far from it. But even if it's only on paper, it's important to acknowledge that the UK state pension is paid for - throughout our working lives and is NOT a handout given from the government.  There is a big difference and it needs to be acknowledged.

That's right, the UK state pension is paid for throughout our working lives, it's not a benefit like to dole. Successive governments have failed to manage the 'fund' and now the burden is on young people to find the cash (which is unfair and unrealistic). Freezing the pension for ex-pats is also unfair but I'm sure a time will come when it's stopped altogether, forcing thousand of people back to the UK.

[LindaH27]

And then the fun starts - finding homes, trying to get a place with gp, checking on residency for any benefit etc! House prices will have increased over the years, very few dentists offer nhs treatment and you wait 3 weeks for a gp appointment unlike same day appointments in Australia and up to 18 weeks to see consultants. I think long term expats would have quite a shock on returning home!! 

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Ferrets said:

But it isn't paid for; most people pay less into NI than they draw out through the pension.   As a result, with the pension being paid out on the basis of number of years contribution rather than value contribution it can only be viewed as a benefit.

You are absolutely right, but talk to the average Brit and they don't see it like that. I have cousins who are absolutely furious about the raising of the pension age, on the grounds that "I paid into that pension, so I'm entitled to it".  Look at @SusieRoo's and @Fisher1's responses above - both believe they have paid into the pension and are therefore entitled to it.

The truth is, the NI contributions an individual pays during their lifetime are nowhere near enough to pay for a pension for 20 years, which is what many people will be collecting.  I only realised this when I looked into paying a few extra years' contributions.  I only had to pay a few thousand extra to make a big difference to the UK pension I get, and that's for the rest of my life. 

I don't know whether the government have managed the fund badly or not - but it's bleeding obvious that they haven't increased the contributions over the years to what they should be, and that's a huge part of the reason why the fund falls short.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Marisawright

[LindaH27]

But isn’t that true of all pensions even private ones?  You will nearly always get out more than you have paid in - especially as private funds invest in stocks and shares and therefore earn a much bigger potential increase? 

In UK what has happened is that govts haven’t looked at increases in population aged or otherwise. There’s no personal “pot” as such. So current worker state pensions contributions are actually being used to pay current pensioners. So in effect my generation paid for my parents pensions and my children are paying for mine!  I paid for my own private pensions though and yes having done my sums I’m getting out more than I’ve paid in! 

 

[palaceboy1]

12 hours ago, Lenses said:

No queue date, applied /acknowledged Feb 2016.

Your acknowledgment letter should show a date which you can look up to find your place in the queue. For info there are only 340 cases prior to 2010 which makes the waiting time for 103 less than 8 years for those currently being assessed

[SusieRoo]

4 hours ago, Marisawright said:

You are absolutely right, but talk to the average Brit and they don't see it like that. I have cousins who are absolutely furious about the raising of the pension age, on the grounds that "I paid into that pension, so I'm entitled to it".  Look at @SusieRoo's and @Fisher1's responses above - both believe they have paid into the pension and are therefore entitled to it.

I don’t take too kindly to personal ridicule like that. And I don’t think anyone else on here will appreciate being mocked ether. You should move to another forum if you just want to play games.

[Merryweather]

Hi - re pensions.

i believe all pensions - state or occupational - have to be taxed in Australia?

Any comments? Advice? Does it take ages to arrange, etc.?

[Quoll]

6 hours ago, LindaH27 said:

And then the fun starts - finding homes, trying to get a place with gp, checking on residency for any benefit etc! House prices will have increased over the years, very few dentists offer nhs treatment and you wait 3 weeks for a gp appointment unlike same day appointments in Australia and up to 18 weeks to see consultants. I think long term expats would have quite a shock on returning home!! 

Golly, perhaps try a different part of the U.K.? House prices around here, yes, very silly (as they are where we have a home in Canberra, pretty much £$ matching my dad’s house and ours.) Never had a problem getting a same day GP appointment here in U.K. ambulance calls are free, medications for the over 60s free, dad got to see a urology specialist within a week recently and had an op within 8 weeks and that included over Christmas - compared with (according to the Canberra Times recently) a wait time of 6 years (you read that right!) for a Urology “elective” op in the public system.  I couldn’t believe it but, some time ago, being told I would be waiting at least 18 months to have a gall bladder removal in the public system I was glad to have had private cover then it only took a month - so nothing surprises me any more.  Dad’s GP calls routinely every 2-3 months to see how he’s going if we haven’t been to the surgery and has said he’s happy to come to the home to see him if he can’t make it to the surgery (94 and reduced mobility) - awesome service

At least there are NHS dentists! Not had a problem finding one here that does NHS (for the olds) but I choose private because I like the dentist I’ve got. Am used to paying for private dentistry and dollar for pound it’s significantly cheaper here.

I’ve been here 7 years almost and have had care for two very elderly parents and an aunt and uncle to coordinate and can honestly say that the care they have received has been incredibly impressive. They’ve never not got an appointment on the day when needed, they’ve seen specialists in eye wateringly quick turn around times (not just urology) even though they’re well beyond their use by date.  I guess all Trusts are different but this one knocks spots off Canberra (or even where by Aussie MiL lived). 

[LindaH27]

Wow think I need to move wherever you are in UK ! My last GP appointment took 3 weeks to come through. I was referred to a specialist  in March - but won’t see him till mid July! Your GP sounds fantastic! I asked for a call out at 8 am once and had to contact surgery as GP still hadn’t arrived by 6 pm and I thought they had forgotten me! They only offer call outs  to over 65s as well. Not an isolated example,  all my friends have had same problems and indeed it’s always being mentioned in the media about how the NHS is struggling. I do have one friend who moved to the Lake District and as a rural community they do very well with their doctors but I live in a small market town where a local college has over the years been allowed to expand and now has more students than there are local residents!! So perhaps that’s half the problem - but that’s a whole different story! 

[Marisawright]

4 hours ago, SusieRoo said:

I don’t take too kindly to personal ridicule like that. And I don’t think anyone else on here will appreciate being mocked ether. You should move to another forum if you just want to play games.

I apologise if I upset you, SusieRoo, because I had absolutely no intention of mocking anyone.  I just stated a fact.  I'm sorry if I expressed myself badly so you misunderstood.  

You said, " the UK state pension is paid for throughout our working lives, it's not a benefit like to dole".  That's reflects what most British people think. However when you look into it, the amount you paid in (and the interest it earned) isn't nearly enough to fund your pension.  That's not your fault, it's because they set the contributions too low for many years. So although some of your pension is your return on your investment, some of it is really a benefit like the Australian one.   

Also as Linda pointed out, you don't actually get your money back - your pension is being paid by the current contributions and this generation's pension will be paid by the next generation.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Marisawright

[Fisher1]

8 hours ago, Marisawright said:

You are absolutely right, but talk to the average Brit and they don't see it like that. I have cousins who are absolutely furious about the raising of the pension age, on the grounds that "I paid into that pension, so I'm entitled to it".  Look at @SusieRoo's and @Fisher1's responses above - both believe they have paid into the pension and are therefore entitled to it.

The truth is, the NI contributions an individual pays during their lifetime are nowhere near enough to pay for a pension for 20 years, which is what many people will be collecting.  I only realised this when I looked into paying a few extra years' contributions.  I only had to pay a few thousand extra to make a big difference to the UK pension I get, and that's for the rest of my life. 

I don't know whether the government have managed the fund badly or not - but it's bleeding obvious that they haven't increased the contributions over the years to what they should be, and that's a huge part of the reason why the fund falls short.

Hallo Marisawright, your 'Average Brit' here

I do believe that I paid for my pension and am entitled to it. - that's probably because my government told me so - not that I believe everything that crowd say.  I also believe that you are mistaken.

There are certainly problems balancing the books, as there have been with many final salary pension schemes in the UK  snd elsewhere -  because people are living longer and the "old aged pension" as it used to be known, was introduced at a time when few workers lived past the age of seventy or so. Clearly action needs to be taken to either increase the contributions or make the money go further by increasing the pension age and this is what the UK government ha been trying to do.

There remains, however, a crucial difference between a pension which is calculated  and paid out according to compulsory individual contributions and pensions given by the state to people who are in need.  This difference is illustrated by the fact that several thousand Australians have recently lost their state pensions due to the Turnbull government deciding that they are no longer poor enough to need it. This could not happen in the UK without a major change in the law, because the UK state pension is paid for, and is not a benefit. That's why it's possible to buy back "missing years'.  

It is really important to make the distinction because when applying for anything that involves stating your income, if you want to include the UK state pension  as part of that income you get a strange look and that pen starts to waver! 

 

[Fisher1]

2 hours ago, Merryweather said:

Hi - re pensions.

i believe all pensions - state or occupational - have to be taxed in Australia?

Any comments? Advice? Does it take ages to arrange, etc.?

Hi Merryweather

There is an extra tax relief on pensions allowed by the Australian govt. Its called something loke the 'undeducted purchase price' I can't remember offhand but I'll get back to you when Ive looked it up. Its about your individual contribution to a pension scheme, which attracts extra tax relief. Sorry to be so vague but Im only just getting my head round it myself. if nobody else posts a better explanation I'll message you a link later. (Am in bed drinking tea at the mo  

[Marisawright]

22 minutes ago, Fisher1 said:

I do believe that I paid for my pension and am entitled to it. - that's probably because my government told me so

There are certainly problems balancing the books, as there have been with many final salary pension schemes in the UK  snd elsewhere -  because people are living longer and the "old aged pension" as it used to be known, was introduced at a time when few workers lived past the age of seventy or so. Clearly action needs to be taken to either increase the contributions or make the money go further by increasing the pension age and this is what the UK government ha been trying to do.

Yes, I know it's because the government told you so. And I'm a Brit too, remember!   I've obviously expressed myself very badly.

I'm not mistaken, because you've just said, above, exactly what I'm saying.  The books don't balance.  People are living longer and therefore, the contributions we paid in during our lifetime (I'm 64) were not enough to fund our long old age.  My cousins are saying, "I paid my money in, now I'm entitled to get it out, so you're robbing me if you increase the pension age".  I think they're wrong, because they (and I) didn't pay in enough to get paid for so many years, and the government is only trying to address that by raising the age.  It's rough on those affected because we all grew up taking the pension for granted, which again is the government's fault for creating that perception.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Marisawright

[Alan Collett]

19 minutes ago, Fisher1 said:

Hi Merryweather

There is an extra tax relief on pensions allowed by the Australian govt. Its called something loke the 'undeducted purchase price' I can't remember offhand but I'll get back to you when Ive looked it up. Its about your individual contribution to a pension scheme, which attracts extra tax relief. Sorry to be so vague but Im only just getting my head round it myself. if nobody else posts a better explanation I'll message you a link later. (Am in bed drinking tea at the mo  

Yes, there is a UPP of 8% on UK State Pensions: https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/document?docid=TXR/TR9313/NAT/ATO/00001

For other pension income: https://www.ato.gov.au/Calculators-and-tools/Undeducted-purchase-price-calculator/

Remember that UK pension income is WHOLLY taxable in Australia under the applicable provision of the Tax Treaty once you are a tax resident of Australia and have a permanent residency visa.

Best regards.

 

[ant111]

28 minutes ago, Alan Collett said:

Yes, there is a UPP of 8% on UK State Pensions: https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/document?docid=TXR/TR9313/NAT/ATO/00001

For other pension income: https://www.ato.gov.au/Calculators-and-tools/Undeducted-purchase-price-calculator/

Remember that UK pension income is WHOLLY taxable in Australia under the applicable provision of the Tax Treaty once you are a tax resident of Australia and have a permanent residency visa.

Best regards.

 

Thanks Alan, very appreciated

[Lenses]

On 06/06/2018 at 18:07, Tulip1 said:

I see, makes sense now. If they are elderly, and it sounds like they may be from what you said then can they not do the aged visa onshore?

Yes, they are onshore and have applied on shore for the non contributory visa and would apply on shore for the contributory parent visa.