The Brand New PIO Parents Visa thread

[Lenses]

On 07/06/2018 at 00:11, Merryweather said:

Apart from the cost - there is also the w-a-I-t-I-n-g time!! Getting longer and longer. Are your parents already in Oz?

Yes they are.

[Lenses]

14 hours ago, palaceboy1 said:

Your acknowledgment letter should show a date which you can look up to find your place in the queue. For info there are only 340 cases prior to 2010 which makes the waiting time for 103 less than 8 years for those currently being assessed

Thanks, but my parents are not even in the queue yet, they submitted and were receipted in Feb 16, the Dept are only just assessing for queue date March 16 applicants.

So, if they get in the queue this year (which looks likely) then their queue date would be 2018.  The Dept are currently finalising applications for a visa those with a queue date of 2010.  It's been that date for quite some time!  There are about 4000 infront of my parents (and they're not even in the queue yet).  Thanks though.

 

[Lenses]

16 hours ago, ant111 said:

Pertenhall  you should get your daughter to complain to the complaints dept of centrelink again on the number I sent you. You should have had a response last time within their 10 day limit. She's best  to call her  the time I said .

I finally got my AOS accepted after nearly seven months, but our daughter had to be persistent with them and the complaints dept. I also had to get a co-assurer because our daughter put a tax return in for her mat year. This then had to be the one they count. They lost the co assurerrs ID, They were waiting for the bond proof , when they already had it. Absolute nightmare. 

I believe there is about twenty weeks to interview after application, but you are justified to complain again to the complaints dept especially when they didnt reply to you within ten days last time you complained.

I called The Dept of Human Services and asked how it would work if I was the assurer and was on mat leave.  Mary, the lady I spoke to said it would be fine, there would not be a problem.  I was give a record number and noted her name, the date and time of the call. 

I'm now concerned as it looks like your daughter was assessed on her mat income and you had to find co-assurer.

Would you be able to clarify, as I can't see info on how it works if your'e on mat leave as the assurer on the Dept of Human Services website and it I may have been given incorrect info over the phone! 

Thanks in advance.

[palaceboy1]

40 minutes ago, Lenses said:

Thanks, but my parents are not even in the queue yet, they submitted and were receipted in Feb 16, the Dept are only just assessing for queue date March 16 applicants.

So, if they get in the queue this year (which looks likely) then their queue date would be 2018.  The Dept are currently finalising applications for a visa those with a queue date of 2010.  It's been that date for quite some time!  There are about 4000 infront of my parents (and they're not even in the queue yet).  Thanks though.

 

Sorry did not realise they are on the 804 visa,.Since the 18/6/2016 to 28/3/2018 they have reduced the 804 queue by by 350 but if they are already there with a bridging visa does it matter

[Lenses]

16 minutes ago, palaceboy1 said:

Sorry did not realise they are on the 804 visa,.Since the 18/6/2016 to 28/3/2018 they have reduced the 804 queue by by 350 but if they are already there with a bridging visa does it matter

No, but I'm trying to decide if worth spending $100K for 2 contributory visas.  What is the benefit?  Access to Medicare?

[palaceboy1]

10 minutes ago, Lenses said:

No, but I'm trying to decide if worth spending $100K for 2 contributory visas.  What is the benefit?  Access to Medicare?

I thought you had to pay for own health cover on the contributory visas . As you say what are the benefits once you reach a certain age

[Quoll]

24 minutes ago, palaceboy1 said:

Sorry did not realise they are on the 804 visa,.Since the 18/6/2016 to 28/3/2018 they have reduced the 804 queue by by 350 but if they are already there with a bridging visa does it matter

Living in Aus on a bridging visa as you age is a very risky process - see the “emotional blackmail” post further up the board today about the poor lady who is being deported because she’s costing the tax payer too much in drugs for her condition. She thought there wouldn’t be a problem arriving as a tourist and applying onshore I am sure. Now, had she applied for the cpv back then she’d have been in Aus for several years as a PR by now with no risk of deportation.  The clue here is that you are not on an 804 visa until it’s granted! You are on a bridging visa from a tourist visa.

 

[Alan Collett]

9 minutes ago, Quoll said:

Living in Aus on a bridging visa as you age is a very risky process - see the “emotional blackmail” post further up the board today about the poor lady who is being deported because she’s costing the tax payer too much in drugs for her condition. She thought there wouldn’t be a problem arriving as a tourist and applying onshore I am sure. Now, had she applied for the cpv back then she’d have been in Aus for several years as a PR by now with no risk of deportation.  The clue here is that you are not on an 804 visa until it’s granted! You are on a bridging visa from a tourist visa.

 

Can you post a link to that post, Quoll - I don't recall seeing it.

Thanks.

[ramot]

23 minutes ago, Alan Collett said:

Can you post a link to that post, Quoll - I don't recall seeing it.

Thanks.

It's posted on chewing the fat. I often think there is more to a story than we know

[Fisher1]

9 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Yes, I know it's because the government told you so. And I'm a Brit too, remember!   I've obviously expressed myself very badly.

I'm not mistaken, because you've just said, above, exactly what I'm saying.  The books don't balance.  People are living longer and therefore, the contributions we paid in during our lifetime (I'm 64) were not enough to fund our long old age.  My cousins are saying, "I paid my money in, now I'm entitled to get it out, so you're robbing me if you increase the pension age".  I think they're wrong, because they (and I) didn't pay in enough to get paid for so many years, and the government is only trying to address that by raising the age.  It's rough on those affected because we all grew up taking the pension for granted, which again is the government's fault for creating that perception.

Hallo again Marisawright, Average Brit here again, 

I have to agree with your earlier post, I rather think you have expressed yourself badly. When I read comments like "It's bleeding obvious that they haven't increased the contributions over the years to what they should be" I do tend to recoil a bit.  Well done for admitting it and apologising.

I tend to think you are not understanding my point. It's about the meaning of the words we use, and the impression that gives to others. The UK state pension may be underfunded, successive governments may have mismanaged it over the years, we may all be creditors of a bankrupt system. However - at this point in time, the UK state pension is a legal right and is not a state benefit and I find it rather annoying to have my credit rating rubbished by people who insist that it is. 

Apologies to everyone else on this (normally very friendly and supportive) thread, who no doubt have more pressing issues to discuss. 

 

[Merryweather]

Thanks, Allan C and Fisher for your replies.

Still a tad confused - but I'll get there

As Denzel Washington said in 'Philadelphia', 

"Explain this to me like I'm a two year old"

[Fisher1]

9 hours ago, Alan Collett said:

Yes, there is a UPP of 8% on UK State Pensions: https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/document?docid=TXR/TR9313/NAT/ATO/00001

For other pension income: https://www.ato.gov.au/Calculators-and-tools/Undeducted-purchase-price-calculator/

Remember that UK pension income is WHOLLY taxable in Australia under the applicable provision of the Tax Treaty once you are a tax resident of Australia and have a permanent residency visa.

Best regards.

 

Hi Alan   

Thanks for clarifying that - but when you say that UK pension income is wholly taxable in Australia, you do mean after the first  18,200$ don't you?

A bit worried!    

[Marisawright]

10 minutes ago, Fisher1 said:

Hallo again Marisawright, Average Brit here again, 

I have to agree with your earlier post, I rather think you have expressed yourself badly. When I read comments like "It's bleeding obvious that they haven't increased the contributions over the years to what they should be" I do tend to recoil a bit.  Well done for admitting it and apologising.

I tend to think you are not understanding my point. It's about the meaning of the words we use, and the impression that gives to others. The UK state pension may be underfunded, successive governments may have mismanaged it over the years, we may all be creditors of a bankrupt system. However - at this point in time, the UK state pension is a legal right and is not a state benefit and I find it rather annoying to have my credit rating rubbished by people who insist that it is. 

Apologies to everyone else on this (normally very friendly and supportive) thread, who no doubt have more pressing issues to discuss. 

 

We're talking about two totally different things here.   I am talking about the misconception that the UK pension is something you pay into, therefore you have a right to get that money (and its profits) back.  My cousins are getting their knickers in a knot because of that perception, because they feel the UK government is stealing their money.  It's not.  Why you should get offended because I criticise the government for not increasing the contributions beats me.

I am not  disputing your right, or anyone else's to claim the pension which you have a legal right to claim (though the legal name for it, by the way, is a "contributory benefit").   I am not aware of anyone rubbishing people's credit ratings.

[Tidang]

Hi everyone 

Immigration email to my sister and say that docoments all received and the payment will be soon . I don't know when they give me seconpayment request ???? Or i still wait another month

[Alan Collett]

3 minutes ago, Fisher1 said:

Hi Alan   

Thanks for clarifying that - but when you say that UK pension income is wholly taxable in Australia, you do mean after the first  18,200$ don't you?

A bit worried!    

UK pension income is wholly taxable in Australia.

In computing the tax payable you deduct the tax free threshold, which is A$18,200 if you are tax resident for the whole year.

In the year of arrival in Australia: https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Ind/Tax-free-threshold-for-newcomers-to-Australia/

You also deduct any Undeducted Purchase Price (UPP) in arriving at the amount that is subject to tax.

Rates of income tax in Australia are here: https://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individual-income-tax-rates/

Hope this helps!

Consider also whether there is merit in transferring monies from your UK pension fund to an Australian superannuation fund if the pension is not already in payment.  

You know how to find me off forum if you need more help and guidance on matters of a tax nature!

[Fisher1]

24 minutes ago, Alan Collett said:

UK pension income is wholly taxable in Australia.

In computing the tax payable you deduct the tax free threshold, which is A$18,200 if you are tax resident for the whole year.

In the year of arrival in Australia: https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Ind/Tax-free-threshold-for-newcomers-to-Australia/

You also deduct any Undeducted Purchase Price (UPP) in arriving at the amount that is subject to tax.

Rates of income tax in Australia are here: https://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individual-income-tax-rates/

Hope this helps!

Consider also whether there is merit in transferring monies from your UK pension fund to an Australian superannuation fund if the pension is not already in payment.  

You know how to find me off forum if you need more help and guidance on matters of a tax nature!

Phew!    thanks, I was getting very worried there as we have factored  the 18200 in to our financial planning

[Merryweather]

30 minutes ago, Tidang said:

Hi everyone 

Immigration email to my sister and say that docoments all received and the payment will be soon . I don't know when they give me seconpayment request ???? Or i still wait another month

Hi Tidang,

Yes,  I got that email 5 weeks ago.

Nobody knows how long it will take, or the criteria for making decisions.

We just have to wait

[Catlady2014]

With regard to UK State pensions, I'm not quite convinced of the relevance of pensioners drawing out more than the total they have paid in over the years (this is the same with a private pension).   And although I'm not totally sure of the percentages these days, I believe that in addition to NI contributions made by employees, employers have also had to contribute - at an even higher percentage - for each employee.  So pensioners may have personally contributed less than they eventually take out, but I wonder how that pans out when you add in their employers' contributions.  Certainly, if I were considering paying into a private pension now for example, I wouldn't bother if I didn't believe I would eventually draw out more that I had paid in.  Otherwise, there would be no point to it.  

Edited June 8, 2018 by Catlady2014

[LindaH27]

quote from Marisa....

“We're talking about two totally different things here.   I am talking about the misconception that the UK pension is something you pay into, therefore you have a right to get that money (and its profits) back.  My cousins are getting their knickers in a knot because of that perception, because they feel the UK government is stealing theirmoney.  It's not.  Why you should get offended because I criticise the government for not increasing the contributions beats me.

I am not  disputing your right, or anyone else's to claim the pension which you have a legal right to claim (though the legal name for it, by the way, is a "contributory benefit").   I am not aware of anyone rubbishing people's credit ratings.”

 

My view for what it’s worth. ...As mentioned in the quote above the legal term is contributory benefit. The key word there is “contributory”  ie it’s something you have to pay into. In fact you have no choice it’s part of your NI contributions. 

So Brits pay a contribution towards the pension whether it’s to fund the previous generation or their own -  the underlying premise is that you contribute to something in order to get something back. The more you earn,  the more you pay in NI therefore the more you pay towards the pension.   

It’s also contributory in the sense that  people can and do make extra contributions in order to increase the amount they get back in pension!! I believe, though am not sure, that the extra contributions are in fact less than someone might pay on a good salary  

If you have less than 10 years contributions you don't get anything at all and currently need 39 years of contributions to get the full pension,  so yes Brits contribute to get something back. 

I rather think it’s like the debate about 143 visa cost and Medicare.  I would suspect there are examples where peoples’ eventual payments from Medicare exceed the amount paid in!

 

 

 

[Zaki]

45 minutes ago, Merryweather said:

Hi Tidang,

Yes,  I got that email 5 weeks ago.

Nobody knows how long it will take, or the criteria for making decisions.

We just have to wait

Hi @Tidang

 

Did they mention any tentative period? Like new f.y

[Ferrets]

1 hour ago, Fisher1 said:

Hallo again Marisawright, Average Brit here again, 

I have to agree with your earlier post, I rather think you have expressed yourself badly. When I read comments like "It's bleeding obvious that they haven't increased the contributions over the years to what they should be" I do tend to recoil a bit.  Well done for admitting it and apologising.

I tend to think you are not understanding my point. It's about the meaning of the words we use, and the impression that gives to others. The UK state pension may be underfunded, successive governments may have mismanaged it over the years, we may all be creditors of a bankrupt system. However - at this point in time, the UK state pension is a legal right and is not a state benefit and I find it rather annoying to have my credit rating rubbished by people who insist that it is. 

Apologies to everyone else on this (normally very friendly and supportive) thread, who no doubt have more pressing issues to discuss. 

 

The politics of the UK state pension are a mess, and the politicians duck and weave to avoid proper discussion on the topic.

But language aside the mechanics are clearly a benefit; contribution is measured in years and not value and therefore you can get much more or indeed much less than is contributed - it's worth bearing in mind that NI is also supposed to fund the NHS; 

1. The UK average salary is £27,600 which means NI of approximately £2,200 p.a. to fund pension & NHS,
2. 35 years of contributions (under new state pension rules) = £77,000. 
3. At a full payment of £164.35 per week that means an annual pension of £8,546.20
4. Assuming no contribution to the NHS this means that on average the NI contributions over a working life will pay for 9 years pension.

The maths of this show clearly this is a benefit as on average the payments in are being topped up in a manner that significantly outperforms the market.

You make the point that it is a legal right - and in fact that highlights it is a benefit as you are wrong - whilst it is a right at the moment it could be withdrawn by the government or slashed / ages moved by act of Parliament and has no permanent guarantee.  You can see the move for auto enrolment is the first step to the abolition of the state pension, which will be gone before I retire.  They can't do that to a defined contribution pension (at least not anything that has been paid in up to any point of change).

It's been deceitful of governments of all colour for the way that they have approached this, and I think the issue of unfunded liabilities for the UK is a trainwreck that is still unfolding (Pensions, PFI, etc.) and will be a true blight on future generations in the UK.

[LindaH27]

Can you do the same calculation for Australian  super funds please. It would be  interesting to see the comparison as perhaps it’s something UK govt can look into. Also Nzi is a percentage rate therefore the more you earn the more you contribute  

Also perhaps how many expats left Uk before paying  full amount of contributions and now pay a relative pittance to claim full UK pension? 

Its all mathematics at the end of the day  and yes the govt need to sort it out and there have been various attempts over the years including raising the pension age which I believe is also going to happen in Australia. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by LindaH27

[Ferrets]

1 minute ago, LindaH27 said:

Can you do the same calculation for Australian  super funds please. It would be  interesting to see the comparison as perhaps it’s something UK govt can look into. 

With a super it's very specific to your circumstances as it's your account (aka a defined benefit scheme) so any numbers based on averages could be wildly out on the payout. 

A problem with the Australian super is 9.5% is still not enough (on average) to support retirement; it needs to be north of 15% for a sustainable model.

I've also not considered the Australian aged pension as being means tested will be less relevant to most.

 

[Catlady2014]

37 minutes ago, Ferrets said:

The politics of the UK state pension are a mess, and the politicians duck and weave to avoid proper discussion on the topic.

But language aside the mechanics are clearly a benefit; contribution is measured in years and not value and therefore you can get much more or indeed much less than is contributed - it's worth bearing in mind that NI is also supposed to fund the NHS; 

1. The UK average salary is £27,600 which means NI of approximately £2,200 p.a. to fund pension & NHS,
2. 35 years of contributions (under new state pension rules) = £77,000. 
3. At a full payment of £164.35 per week that means an annual pension of £8,546.20
4. Assuming no contribution to the NHS this means that on average the NI contributions over a working life will pay for 9 years pension.

The maths of this show clearly this is a benefit as on average the payments in are being topped up in a manner that significantly outperforms the market.

You make the point that it is a legal right - and in fact that highlights it is a benefit as you are wrong - whilst it is a right at the moment it could be withdrawn by the government or slashed / ages moved by act of Parliament and has no permanent guarantee.  You can see the move for auto enrolment is the first step to the abolition of the state pension, which will be gone before I retire.  They can't do that to a defined contribution pension (at least not anything that has been paid in up to any point of change).

It's been deceitful of governments of all colour for the way that they have approached this, and I think the issue of unfunded liabilities for the UK is a trainwreck that is still unfolding (Pensions, PFI, etc.) and will be a true blight on future generations in the UK.

I believe the employer would contribute another £4,000 or so per annum on top of the employee's annual contribution, but I'm no longer up to speed on UK payroll, so I might be totally wrong.  

[Ferrets]

10 minutes ago, Catlady2014 said:

I believe the employer would contribute another £4,000 or so per annum on top of the employee's annual contribution, but I'm no longer up to speed on UK payroll, so I might be totally wrong.  

Lol that is me told and schooled!!

You are right, currently it would be about the same employer contribution, i.e. £2,200 month.

Digging a bit it looks like the expenditure on pensions and NHS p.a. s roughly the same (Pensions £165bn for 2019 vs. NHS £150bn) so it figures that on average the current scheme is still only supporting 9-10 years of pension financially, which is certainly not in line with people's expectations.