Skani Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, Loopylu said: I think it is selfish that 30% of the population born overseas are deprived of their fundamental human right to a family life. And it is not selfish to deprive people of the fundamental human right to LIVE ? The UK currently has a death rate of 1,884 per capita. In an Australia with open borders that would equate to 48,000+ deaths. Gobsmacked - to put it mildly. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher1 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Loopylu said: My SIL has worked 2 weeks in every 6 for Qantas in ticketing Her job disappears at the end of March as Qantas is closing the domestic ticket office permanently (not just for Covid). As she ordinarily works at the International Airport Qantas will not make her redundant. She has applied for many jobs, studied and got new qualifications but no alternative work for her. Probably because she is a 60 year old woman. Older women are now the highest group on welfare benefits.... age discrimination is rife. If you read my posts properly you would see that I believe the vaccine should go to the most vulnerable and those most at risk of coming into contact with Covid first. ScoMo and the other pollies do not fall into these categories. The doctor at the PA in Brisbane who contracted Covid from people she was treating should have been inoculated well before those reprobates. Regarding your sister in law - things are pretty much the same in the uk for women in the sixty plus age group, who now have to wait until they are sixty six to access their contributory state pension. This means that many women in the Uk (categorized as elderly and vulnerable) have been forced by financial necessity to continue working on the front line in schools and hospitals. So things aren’t that rosy in the UK either. I’ve only been in Australia for three years, and I had planned a trip back this year, which obviously isn’t happening. I am quite homesick at the moment, but do you know what? I thank my lucky stars every day that I’m here in a place with such low infection rates that I can live an almost normal life - especially when I speak to my sister who lives alone and hasn’t seen her daughter for over a year. Fundamental right to a family life? I think we all need to accept things the way they are and get on with our lives as best we can. Edited March 23, 2021 by Fisher1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopylu Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Fisher1 said: Regarding your sister in law - things are pretty much the same in the uk for women in the sixty plus age group, who now have to wait until they are sixty six to access their contributory state pension. This means that many women in the Uk (categorized as elderly and vulnerable) have been forced by financial necessity to continue working on the front line in schools and hospitals. So things aren’t that rosy in the UK either. I’ve only been in Australia for three years, and I had planned a trip back this year, which obviously isn’t happening. I am quite homesick at the moment, but do you know what? I thank my lucky stars every day that I’m here in a place with such low infection rates that I can live an almost normal life - especially when I speak to my sister who lives alone and hasn’t seen her daughter for over a year. I think we all need to accept things the way they are and get on with our lives as best we can. That is very strange as I don’t know of any friends in the UK who live alone who have been stopped from seeing their family or parents for over a year. A month or two at most during the hardest lockdowns. Bubbles are allowed so unless your niece is overseas and not allowed to travel to the UK there really is no good reason why they have not seen each other unless, of course, your sister is shielding due to a serious health condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 25 minutes ago, Skani said: The UK currently has a death rate of 1,884 per capita. I meant 1,884 per million population. (Note to self: don't post in the morning with sub optimal caffeine level. ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopylu Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 42 minutes ago, Marisawright said: You haven't answered my point because you can't deny the logic. I know you are in pain and I have been there, but that is no justification for blaming the Australian government. Blame Covid. Australia and NZ have saved the lives of thousands of their residents by the measures they have taken. Which people would you like to volunteer for death so all those born overseas can travel freely? As a Christian, you should understand the value of making personal sacrifices for the sake of the greater good. Got to love when non Christians tell you what you are supposed to believe or do. The Ten Commandments tell us to honour our father and mother and that means being there for them and not turning your back on them when they need you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallyman Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Just now, Loopylu said: That is very strange as I don’t know of any friends in the UK who live alone who have been stopped from seeing their family or parents for over a year. A month or two at most during the hardest lockdowns. Bubbles are allowed so unless your niece is overseas and not allowed to travel to the UK there really is no good reason why they have not seen each other unless, of course, your sister is shielding due to a serious health condition. All home countries have been doing there own thing. While wales was in lock down people were swarming over the boarder from England to get to north wales for a day out. oh to live in a perfect world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallyman Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 34 minutes ago, Loopylu said: Got to love when non Christians tell you what you are supposed to believe or do. The Ten Commandments tell us to honour our father and mother and that means being there for them and not turning your back on them when they need you. Nobody has said you should turn your back on them . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher1 Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Loopylu said: That is very strange as I don’t know of any friends in the UK who live alone who have been stopped from seeing their family or parents for over a year. A month or two at most during the hardest lockdowns. Bubbles are allowed so unless your niece is overseas and not allowed to travel to the UK there really is no good reason why they have not seen each other unless, of course, your sister is shielding due to a serious health condition. My niece lives in London and my sister lives in Stafford. But my sister is in a bubble with her son who lives in Sheffield, and it’s my understanding that people over the age of sixty cannot be in a bubble with two different families? I used my sister as an example of the fact that everything is far from easy in the UK. People are being limited in their movement in all sorts of ways, for instance I have many friends in my home town who are only allowed out to excercise, and no driving allowed. My point was that until we get this virus under control everyone will suffer limitations to some extent. Edited March 24, 2021 by Fisher1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loopylu Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 13 minutes ago, Rallyman said: Nobody has said you should turn your back on them . Marisa told me I was selfish for travelling to the UK to see my dying father and that as a Christian I should have sacrificed this trip for the greater good. So yes - she said I should turn my back on my parents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Loopylu said: Marisa told me I was selfish for travelling to the UK to see my dying father and that as a Christian I should have sacrificed this trip for the greater good. So yes - she said I should turn my back on my parents. No, I did not. I have no problem with your current situation because you followed the rules and were given an exemption. However you keep saying Australia should not be so strict, so that you and your children and everyone like you could leave and return freely. The result of free movement in every other country has bern thousands of deaths, so that demand is selfish. Edited March 24, 2021 by Marisawright 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallyman Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 27 minutes ago, Loopylu said: Marisa told me I was selfish for travelling to the UK to see my dying father and that as a Christian I should have sacrificed this trip for the greater good. So yes - she said I should turn my back on my parents. I think you are reading It as to suite your view of unrestricted travel , you were able to travel, you met the requirements, what is being stopped is free travel simply to holiday , non of us want this situation but for the greater good of Australia we understand the reasons why. I would cherish the time with your parents and not waste it on here. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) I think this thread should be closed Mods, with apologies to the OP. It’s going nowhere, and achieving nothing now. As Rallyman says above ‘cherish the time with your parents’ you are luckier than many in your situation. xM Edited March 24, 2021 by ramot 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toots Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 11 minutes ago, Rallyman said: I think you are reading It as to suite your view of unrestricted travel , you were able to travel, you met the requirements, what is being stopped is free travel simply to holiday , non of us want this situation but for the greater good of Australia we understand the reasons why. I would cherish the time with your parents and not waste it on here. I think anyone with an iota of common sense understands about travel restrictions. At one point people seemed to be traveling willy-nilly in and out of and around the UK and what happened? 126,000 deaths. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtritudr Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 15 hours ago, Loopylu said: New Zealand which has also adopted the IHR conventions into domestic law has not banned anyone from leaving NZ but quite rightly imposes quarantine on those entering. It does not have caps on arrivals. The wider world considers NZ to be the gold standard for Covid management. You have to book your MIQ spot before boarding your flight. As it stands there aren't any available spots for the next three months. The effective cap on arrivals in NZ is about the same as Australia, which is high when you consider the smaller population of NZ. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 19 hours ago, Jon the Hat said: The enthusiasm with which you all welcome more and more restrictions on your liberty is a little chilling. 17 people died within 28 days of a positive covid test yesterday. Death rates are below the normal fr this time of year. We have the vulnerable vaccinated. This is ridiculous. We want to welcome restrictions on our liberty? We want your liberty mate. We've been locked in for a year. We see deaths getting lower, we want your freedom and we don't want to jeopardize it by letting people jet off to variant hotspots and blowing it all. We want 'normal'. If that means holidaying in the UK, then I'm fine with that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 19 hours ago, Jon the Hat said: The enthusiasm with which you all welcome more and more restrictions on your liberty is a little chilling. 17 people died within 28 days of a positive covid test yesterday. Death rates are below the normal fr this time of year. We have the vulnerable vaccinated. This is ridiculous. Best to have restrictions for a little while longer and then get a real life back. You know, go to the pub, go to a football match etc. Hopefully without masks. I suppose the downside is that the normal death rate will soon be back to normal. Would you be happier then? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 17 hours ago, Loopylu said: The difference at law is that, because the UK has enshrined its international human rights obligations into domestic legislation, UK citizens can challenge a travel ban in the UK courts. Australians have no such recourse and have to go to the International Human Rights Court to complain. The UK currently allows international travel for a much broader range of essential reasons and the process to get out is much easier. My legal view is that the UK is not in breach of its IHR obligations because the measures it has put in place are proportionate to the risk. New Zealand which has also adopted the IHR conventions into domestic law has not banned anyone from leaving NZ but quite rightly imposes quarantine on those entering. It does not have caps on arrivals. The wider world considers NZ to be the gold standard for Covid management. My assertion all along has been that Australia had gone too far with the imposed measures, particularly in relation to the right to leave Australia. I sometimes wonder whether the outward travel restriction is for economic reasons as a mass exodus of foreign healthcare professionals who seem to make up the majority of those employed in public health would leave Medicare on its knees. Proportionate to the risk. Even Boris thought it was a bit of flu and everyone would be OK. They had no idea what the risk was and how many deaths it was going to lead to, on top of the financial strife the country is going to be in for a long time. I think you'll find most of those foreign workers working in healthcare are mostly UK trained nurses, over here because they like the lifestyle and better pay. I don't believe there would be a mass exodus, people know where they are better off. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toots Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Paul1Perth said: Proportionate to the risk. Even Boris thought it was a bit of flu and everyone would be OK. They had no idea what the risk was and how many deaths it was going to lead to, on top of the financial strife the country is going to be in for a long time. I think you'll find most of those foreign workers working in healthcare are mostly UK trained nurses, over here because they like the lifestyle and better pay. I don't believe there would be a mass exodus, people know where they are better off. My cardiologist is American and he's been here in Tassie for 15 years. The GPs at our medical centre are doctors from, India, South Africa and the UK. My GP has been here for a number of years, owns a house and has children at a private school so I don't think she's going to scarper any time soon. The younger GP's move away from Tassie to the mainland but the older ones are established here. On my hospital stays I've had nurses from Ireland and Scotland as well as local nurses. They are enjoying life here and are settled. I haven't heard murmurrings of a mass exodus but you never know. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 We have zero active cases in Victoria. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toots Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Parley said: We have zero active cases in Victoria. Tasmania has had zero active cases for 9 months. Much easier here being an island with a small population of just over 540,000. Life has been back to normal since last June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 12 hours ago, Toots said: Tasmania has had zero active cases for 9 months. Much easier here being an island with a small population of just over 540,000. Life has been back to normal since last June. Here in Canberra too - we have been extraordinarily lucky I feel. Even Apple have recently stopped requiring you to wear a mask to go into their store. They were the only ones who did and it was beginning to look very silly! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 23 hours ago, Loopylu said: Got to love when non Christians tell you what you are supposed to believe or do. The Ten Commandments tell us to honour our father and mother and that means being there for them and not turning your back on them when they need you. I repeat: You haven't answered my point because you can't deny the logic. I know you are in pain and I have been there, but that is no justification for blaming the Australian government. Blame Covid. Australia and NZ have saved the lives of thousands of their residents by the measures they have taken. Which people would you like to volunteer for death so all those born overseas can travel freely? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welljock Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 15 hours ago, Toots said: Tasmania has had zero active cases for 9 months. Much easier here being an island with a small population of just over 540,000. Life has been back to normal since last June. The main reason for that is that Tasmania and Victoria don't have any international arrivals. WA for example always has around 10 active cases but (with one exception in the last 10 months) all are in quarantine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusbyBoo Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 23 hours ago, Loopylu said: Marisa told me I was selfish for travelling to the UK to see my dying father and that as a Christian I should have sacrificed this trip for the greater good. So yes - she said I should turn my back on my parents. I am not religious as such and believe most people have an automatic desire to do the right thing for others I.e morals. Our Western world offers the opportunity to debate the rights and wrongs of our government decisions and make our opinions heard. For that I am grateful, I am ok to be guided and protected and if necessary stopped from doing what I believe I need to do. On a personal level I had to make a decision way back at the beginning of COVID of whether or not to visit my parents, I normally visit twice every 18 months. Mum was very sick and probably going to die, I had to fight with drs surgery to even get her seen as apparently the major fluid loss from her legs and fluid filled abdomen were nothing! Her delirium eventually enabled me to get her to hospital (i was in Australia trying to deal with this). I simply couldn’t go, it was the hardest decision I have ever made. Fortunately she is still alive and I FaceTime every day. My point is as individuals we have to work through our most challenging times, it doesn’t sit well with me, I am aware I could probably get an exemption to leave Australia. But I know I will struggle to get back and I have commitments here too. It tears me apart I am the only family my parents have, I can’t even sort out my power of attorney because I can’t prove my identity to banks etc.... I only just managed to stop my dad from being scammed by getting their cleaner to convince him it was a scam. They need care setting up but I need to be there to do it. I feel for everyone who has lives affected by this terrible pandemic, but unfortunately it is what it is. Governments have had to do what they believe is right for the majority and sometimes they get it wrong but no one has a crystal ball. So for me I have to look forward and hope that as a world we can get it under control as soon as possible, then we can all do what we need to do. No family is any more deserving than another, we all have pain and trauma to overcome. LoopyLoo is simply distressed at her situation and when we are distressed we vent. I could start venting about everything right now but I wouldn’t be able to stop, so I get it. Love and peace and deep breaths to everyone 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toots Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 1 hour ago, welljock said: The main reason for that is that Tasmania and Victoria don't have any international arrivals. WA for example always has around 10 active cases but (with one exception in the last 10 months) all are in quarantine Various hotels and motels around the place here are responsible for quarantining arrivals. A motel in our street is being used for that purpose. Walking past one morning, a bus arrived with a load of returning Australian citizens from India. They were all wearing masks and were chaperoned from the bus by security guards. That motel has been used for quarantining for months. Another hotel in town is being used for the same purpose. Once they are out of quarantine they depart to wherever they need to be. Many of them to the mainland. Tasmania is helping with the load of international returnees. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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