Thinking of moving back to Uk

[Tulip1]

50 minutes ago, ramot said:

Not sure I like the label ‘old ladies’  bit ageist. You could also argue that bringing up children did qualify as working. My situation as you sweepingly put it, was due to my husband’s work that meant moving at least every 2 years, and weeks away from home, so like many other women in similar situations it was totally impractical to working full time. So there were many reasons why some of us didn’t work, but put our families first. and yes it was hard work. 

I wasn’t judging you, not sure why you have taken it like that.  By ‘your situation’ I meant staying at home after having children - you stated exactly that and that you had 17 years of child rearing that bumped up your state pension as you put it. Therefore when I said your situation was one like what I was talking about, it was, nothing wrong with that. I said for example there will be women that hadn’t worked but would be entitled to pension because they raised children and therefore could use those years. I mentioned nothing whatsoever about why you didn’t work so no need to explain about your husband moving about.  That had absolutely nothing to do with my comment and is simply an interpretation on your part.   As for the older ladies comment. Again, I never suggested for one moment you are old or that your age had anything to do with it. It is a fact that the older generation ladies were more often home makers as it’s now known as and there’s nothing wrong with that either. I said there are a lot of older ladies that never worked but get state pension.  That is factual. Ladies in their 80’s can be described as older ladies just as those in their 40’s can be described as middle aged and those in their 20’s can be described as younger ladies. Nothing at all wrong with being older, many aren’t lucky enough to get there.  I have zero interest in why some didn’t work so you don’t need to tell me that there are many reasons why some of you (as you put it) didn’t. Why people didn’t work has nothing at all to do with what I said.  

[ramot]

5 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

I wasn’t judging you, not sure why you have taken it like that.  By ‘your situation’ I meant staying at home after having children - you stated exactly that and that you had 17 years of child rearing that bumped up your state pension as you put it. Therefore when I said your situation was one like what I was talking about, it was, nothing wrong with that. I said for example there will be women that hadn’t worked but would be entitled to pension because they raised children and therefore could use those years. I mentioned nothing whatsoever about why you didn’t work so no need to explain about your husband moving about.  That had absolutely nothing to do with my comment and is simply an interpretation on your part.   As for the older ladies comment. Again, I never suggested for one moment you are old or that your age had anything to do with it. It is a fact that the older generation ladies were more often home makers as it’s now known as and there’s nothing wrong with that either. I said there are a lot of older ladies that never worked but get state pension.  That is factual. Ladies in their 80’s can be described as older ladies just as those in their 40’s can be described as middle aged and those in their 20’s can be described as younger ladies. Nothing at all wrong with being older, many aren’t lucky enough to get there.  I have zero interest in why some didn’t work so you don’t need to tell me that there are many reasons why some of you (as you put it) didn’t. Why people didn’t work has nothing at all to do with what I said.  

Shan’t bother to comment further, 

[Marisawright]

22 minutes ago, ramot said:

Shan’t bother to comment further, 

I do think you misunderstood Tulip.   She's an old lady herself (as am I).  Someone said the Australian pension was just as good as the UK one, and I felt she was just countering that by saying that everyone (or at least most people) can get the UK pension whereas only some get the Australian one.  That's all.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Marisawright

[Pendragon]

On 01/03/2021 at 17:16, Marisawright said:

I related to what he said about "all the reasons for leaving the UK were still intact".    I felt the same way when I went back, and I think that happens to a lot of "Ping Pong Poms".   It's important to sit down and honestly answer the question, "If Britain was so wonderful, why was I so keen to leave?"   

I left Cornwall to come to Australia firstly as no opportunity for my then 17 yo stepson and secondly for the experience. That was in 2007 with no intention to stay beyond gaining citizenship. But the situation changed, wife became ensconced and stepson stated his own family. I have two children and grandkids in Cornwall and whilst I return annually it is not so much that I miss them or my old friends, its Cornwall and UK that I miss. In nearly 14 years I have not made more than fleeting acquaintances. Now in my 60s and recently retired it is even harder. Not a day goes by that I don't feel deep regret. I spent nearly 50 years in UK and I have no intention of seeing my days out in Australia. I intend to leave my wife of 24 years and return to Cornwall in 2022 as not fair on either of us. Life is too short. 

[newjez]

On 04/03/2021 at 05:59, Marisawright said:

I do think you misunderstood Tulip.   She's an old lady herself (as am I).  Someone said the Australian pension was just as good as the UK one, and I felt she was just countering that by saying that everyone (or at least most people) can get the UK pension whereas only some get the Australian one.  That's all.

Yes, but that's not even true.

If you are not up to date on your stamp, you won't get a full UK pension.

It may have been different in times past. But no longer.

You can get your stamp paid on jobseekers, and with child benefit. But it still stands that if you haven't paid your stamp, you won't get a full pension.

I have paid my full stamp in the UK. But I only have three years full time in Australia, and about ten years part time. I can claim full pension in both countries. But if my work experience was the other way around, I couldn't.

Edited March 7, 2021 by newjez

[tea4too]

2 hours ago, Pendragon said:

I left Cornwall to come to Australia firstly as no opportunity for my then 17 yo stepson and secondly for the experience. That was in 2007 with no intention to stay beyond gaining citizenship. But the situation changed, wife became ensconced and stepson stated his own family. I have two children and grandkids in Cornwall and whilst I return annually it is not so much that I miss them or my old friends, its Cornwall and UK that I miss. In nearly 14 years I have not made more than fleeting acquaintances. Now in my 60s and recently retired it is even harder. Not a day goes by that I don't feel deep regret. I spent nearly 50 years in UK and I have no intention of seeing my days out in Australia. I intend to leave my wife of 24 years and return to Cornwall in 2022 as not fair on either of us. Life is too short. 

I'm so sorry it has come to this for you and your wife but, sadly, you are not alone in experiencing the type of regret you describe and over the years there have been many posts from people expressing similar feelings. In general terms it is possibly one aspect of migration that is glossed over at the planning stage, as it is relatively easy to agree to an adventure 'for a few years' when everything is still theory and conjecture. Plans naturally focus on work opportunities, living standards and lifestyles, but immigration tests other less obvious things too and that is the real gamble. Yet realistically how can anyone confidently commit to managing feelings that are impossible to identify or quantify in advance? Good luck @Pendragon, the goalposts moved and I understand your need to feel centred. Tx

[Quoll]

7 hours ago, Pendragon said:

I left Cornwall to come to Australia firstly as no opportunity for my then 17 yo stepson and secondly for the experience. That was in 2007 with no intention to stay beyond gaining citizenship. But the situation changed, wife became ensconced and stepson stated his own family. I have two children and grandkids in Cornwall and whilst I return annually it is not so much that I miss them or my old friends, its Cornwall and UK that I miss. In nearly 14 years I have not made more than fleeting acquaintances. Now in my 60s and recently retired it is even harder. Not a day goes by that I don't feel deep regret. I spent nearly 50 years in UK and I have no intention of seeing my days out in Australia. I intend to leave my wife of 24 years and return to Cornwall in 2022 as not fair on either of us. Life is too short. 

So sorry to hear that you have had to make that decision! My son, who went to U.K. on a post Uni gap year holiday with plans for his future on his return to Aus - he’s still not back 19 years later - always says (courtesy of the Beatles) Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans! I guess that is true.  At least you are making active plans for your life otherwise you will get swept along and not be happy with the outcome and I can certainly relate to that. It’s a bugger getting stuck where you don’t want to be! 

[Fergie]

Hi pendragon

i know what you mean, it’s more the country for me to, if it was the people I’d stay here, as I’ll be leaving my sons behind. It’s heart wrenching. But the feelings can be overwhelming to return

i wish you well, it’s not easy. 

[proud preston]

@Pendragon Such a shame. I’m sorry that it has come to imminent separation. Seem to read a few posts where couples are contemplating separating. So sad as, and I can only speak for me,  but my husband is my best pal and I want us to grow old together - but not here!! - yet I can’t imagine going it alone. How deep rooted and entrenched our love for the mother country. I would dearly love to be in the same country as my 5 siblings and yes, there is also that absolute connection with the landscape, the birds, the light, the buildings, different accents, different villages, towns and cities..... even the Northern chain of shops - Booths. Love going into Booths. I also miss not being able to visit the graves of my parents and extended family. Guilt and longing to see mum when she was alive and I was here and now that she has passed I miss not visiting her resting place and still experience guilt and longing. 

[Pendragon]

On 13/03/2021 at 14:08, proud preston said:

@Pendragon Such a shame. I’m sorry that it has come to imminent separation. Seem to read a few posts where couples are contemplating separating. So sad as, and I can only speak for me,  but my husband is my best pal and I want us to grow old together - but not here!! - yet I can’t imagine going it alone. How deep rooted and entrenched our love for the mother country. I would dearly love to be in the same country as my 5 siblings and yes, there is also that absolute connection with the landscape, the birds, the light, the buildings, different accents, different villages, towns and cities..... even the Northern chain of shops - Booths. Love going into Booths. I also miss not being able to visit the graves of my parents and extended family. Guilt and longing to see mum when she was alive and I was here and now that she has passed I miss not visiting her resting place and still experience guilt and longing. 

Proud Preston I experience the same feelings, having lost both parents and a brother in the past few years. Missed out on precious time never to be repeated. I can't expect my wife to give up on her enjoyment of Australia but she knows that I will never be happy here. Maybe it will turn to regret once I return but having lived in UK for nearly 50 years before coming to Oz I know what to expect. Guess if I had been a younger man I may have integrated in Australian life better. But its been worst experience of my life to date. Wish you luck with whatever you decide but time is the enemy. 

[proud preston]

@Pendragon I’m not sure about the thought - ‘had you come here when you were younger... ‘maybe so - but we arrived when I was nearly 37 ( which seems young now I’m 52!) At 37 I thought we would just be here 2 years but that came and went. I recall backpacking here when I was 24 and not understanding why UK backpackers would want to live here. The thought was just so far from what I wanted in life!! That backpacker year was enough for me yet at 36 I was swept up with hubby wanting to come here and me not being happy in my job at the time so thought ‘ well I’ll give it a go’. I do recall a panic at that time about living so, so far away - it’s never disappeared. So........ long story short ....... even in my younger years I didn’t settle. Yes I’ve integrated but I’m always pining for Lancashire and the UK despite all it’s failings. 

[Paul1Perth]

21 hours ago, proud preston said:

@Pendragon I’m not sure about the thought - ‘had you come here when you were younger... ‘maybe so - but we arrived when I was nearly 37 ( which seems young now I’m 52!) At 37 I thought we would just be here 2 years but that came and went. I recall backpacking here when I was 24 and not understanding why UK backpackers would want to live here. The thought was just so far from what I wanted in life!! That backpacker year was enough for me yet at 36 I was swept up with hubby wanting to come here and me not being happy in my job at the time so thought ‘ well I’ll give it a go’. I do recall a panic at that time about living so, so far away - it’s never disappeared. So........ long story short ....... even in my younger years I didn’t settle. Yes I’ve integrated but I’m always pining for Lancashire and the UK despite all it’s failings. 

If you came at 24 and couldn't understand why UK backpackers would want to live here then I can't understand how you ended up here. 

I reckon if I'd come as a backpacker at 24 I would have moved heaven and earth to stay, as it was I was late 30's when we came, never been before and loved it from day 1. Both parents have died since we've been here, trips back for the funerals but I've never felt guilty and probably wouldn't have seen them a lot more if I'd stayed in the UK. They came out here a couple of times and loved it, so they had a couple of good holidays.

[steveshe]

On 07/03/2021 at 21:02, newjez said:

Yes, but that's not even true.

If you are not up to date on your stamp, you won't get a full UK pension.

It may have been different in times past. But no longer.

You can get your stamp paid on jobseekers, and with child benefit. But it still stands that if you haven't paid your stamp, you won't get a full pension.

I have paid my full stamp in the UK. But I only have three years full time in Australia, and about ten years part time. I can claim full pension in both countries. But if my work experience was the other way around, I couldn't.

Just remember pension here is not a right . Lots of things taken into consideration to claim it here . Just working doesnt give you it . It goes on your assets and that is cars everything , Super , whats in your bank . A lot do not get it . My husband had to prove he had worked 10 years full time before claiming . They go into every little detail . 

[proud preston]

3 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

If you came at 24 and couldn't understand why UK backpackers would want to live here then I can't understand how you ended up here. 

I reckon if I'd come as a backpacker at 24 I would have moved heaven and earth to stay, as it was I was late 30's when we came, never been before and loved it from day 1. Both parents have died since we've been here, trips back for the funerals but I've never felt guilty and probably wouldn't have seen them a lot more if I'd stayed in the UK. They came out here a couple of times and loved it, so they had a couple of good holidays.

As mentioned, husband desperate to come here, I hated my job, 2 young children and husband said it would be a better life for then etc. and I tnought we would just be here for 2 years. There's always give and take in a couple/family. Compromise. You're in a fortunate position to love here and not feel sadness and regret at not spending those latter years with your parents - and that's good. I suppose we are all very different.  

Had I stayed I would have seen mum more regularly; particularly so in her later years when all the adult children supported her whilst she was living with dementia. 

[Paul1Perth]

1 hour ago, steveshe said:

Just remember pension here is not a right . Lots of things taken into consideration to claim it here . Just working doesnt give you it . It goes on your assets and that is cars everything , Super , whats in your bank . A lot do not get it . My husband had to prove he had worked 10 years full time before claiming . They go into every little detail . 

You have super that you pay into and that pays out quite a bit when you finish work.

You can have an awful lot of assets as a couple, not including your house, $400,000 for a home owning couple before you stop receiving the full pension, even then you get a part pension until you have assets of $900,000 odd. I reckon it's pretty generous. Why should people with investment properties and that much in assets get a pension?

The only reason you get it in the UK is you've paid it in since your first day at work.

 

[Joanne Donnelly]

Its so interesting reading all these posts... I came as a 24 year old backpacker and then again as a WHV backpacker at 31... I did lots of travel all over Australia and worked,  I feel like I have been to every little corner in some way apart from Tassie and the red centre.  I have camped slept in vans house sat and rented and had real jobs... I have met and had loads of aussie friends and work colleagues and I have loved so much and adore the wildlife and the exotic side of Oz.  We did have perm res and we had thought when we emigrated then in our late 30's after all our previous trips and time in Oz that we were certain of wanting to live here.  When we arrived 5 years ago we even said we would def give it 5 years but after 2 we went off travelling again in Europe! Turned 40 just after returning to Oz from the trip and it was kinda like right this is it then decide to now fully stay here and live live not the young free backpacker people (lol we are 40!) but we had a great life so far so much fun living for the moment, but something changed at 40 cliche! We just felt like are we those people who live away from their roots and family and thats it never really connect see them be involved? Do we really see ourselves in Oz forever and buying a house getting a dog etc etc... all of a sudden our 'life' looked more like a english country garden and european holidays etc and seeing our families and all my new nieces and nephews and frankly we had seen and done so much of Oz we had gotten bored been here done this despite the lifestyle.  It just kinda hits you or not, we felt like living here all the time is not the same as a holiday or a long drawn out nomadic life we had created that meant we never really committed fully.  We during covid up and left and we are dealing with lockdown and all that comes with it and it is hard and challenging and you def have days of what have we done and want to run back to Oz, yearn for it miss getting up at sunrise and getting a coffee by the beach watching dolphins just so casually etc... But getting up when its snowing and walking in boots in the woods with a coffee and seeing the beauty and feeling the coolness has its beauty, seeing the glimmer of spring is a glorious thing and once you are in the nature of UK it is so calming and reassuring.  We hope that our life we evolve better once covid starts to leave as this is the only thing that is dampening the situation. Very hard to gauge everything under these circumstances, but coming home you do feel a weight being lifted. 

[proud preston]

@Joanne Donnelly Yes! Loved reading your post. I was thrilled to be a backpacker here at 24 - it was one big wild adventure travelling the entire country with 6 others (27 years ago!!) but ......not forever. Your description of England is beautiful. Nature in the UK is so calming and reassuring. Maybe it is just what you are familiar with . An Australian work colleague described returning  to Aus and feeling relaxed and ‘at home’ seeing the eucalyptus trees and I breathe a sigh of relief seeing an Oak tree! 

Hoping things improve for you once Covid dissipates - surely things will slowly get better. 

[rammygirl]

Landscape is deep seated. I grew up in Lancashire, the Adelaide Hills are not so different but with gum trees and parrots.......oh and vineyards! I think that is why I do feel happy here. Wide open flat landscapes are different and I love the ‘big sky’ but don’t feel at home.

[MARYROSE02]

18 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

You have super that you pay into and that pays out quite a bit when you finish work.

You can have an awful lot of assets as a couple, not including your house, $400,000 for a home owning couple before you stop receiving the full pension, even then you get a part pension until you have assets of $900,000 odd. I reckon it's pretty generous. Why should people with investment properties and that much in assets get a pension?

The only reason you get it in the UK is you've paid it in since your first day at work.

 

Steveshe is right about "every little detail" when you apply for the Centrelink old age pension.  It's what stuffed my application up last year.  

They don't want to know how much my UK home is rented out for but what are the dimensions and the rateable value and with my garage on Sydney which is on a separate title, how much could you rent it out for if I did. 

And after I finally submitted my application yet more questions.  I may start the application up again though I think Marissa told me my assets are too high anyway.

I would like to resubmit it but those forensic questions I can't hack.

UK of course everybody gets the pension even if they are billionaire because it's based on your National Insurance payments not means tested like Centrelink?

So many irksome irritations!  I'm late with my HMRC tax return but they have changed rules for logging into their system and I don't have a UK Passport as part of my ID for getting past the security. I have to ring them I guess. 

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Steveshe is right about "every little detail" when you apply for the Centrelink old age pension.  It's what stuffed my application up last year.  .... I may start the application up again though I think Marissa told me my assets are too high anyway.

Very easy to work out whether it's worth the attempt.  Add up the value of your UK property, your savings, and your superannuation balance.  If they come to more than $583,000, then you are not eligible for the pension under the assets test, so you can forget the whole thing.   If you've got less than $583,000, then you might get something, but then it will depend on your income.  

Edited March 19, 2021 by Marisawright

[MARYROSE02]

On 19/03/2021 at 15:39, Marisawright said:

Very easy to work out whether it's worth the attempt.  Add up the value of your UK property, your savings, and your superannuation balance.  If they come to more than $583,000, then you are not eligible for the pension under the assets test, so you can forget the whole thing.   If you've got less than $583,000, then you might get something, but then it will depend on your income.  

Thanks Marissa.  I did not know just how rich I am! 

[newjez]

On 19/03/2021 at 04:39, Marisawright said:

Very easy to work out whether it's worth the attempt.  Add up the value of your UK property, your savings, and your superannuation balance.  If they come to more than $583,000, then you are not eligible for the pension under the assets test, so you can forget the whole thing.   If you've got less than $583,000, then you might get something, but then it will depend on your income.  

So, if you sell all your assets and buy a really big house in Australia, you get a full Australian pension?

[Marisawright]

On 22/03/2021 at 04:14, newjez said:

So, if you sell all your assets and buy a really big house in Australia, you get a full Australian pension?

Yes, that's the stupid thing.   I think it's wrong, personally.  Australia has a lot of old people struggling on the pension while living in a big old house worth two or three million dollars. They won't sell and move into a smaller place or a retirement village, because "I'll lose my pension!".  The fact that they'd have over a million dollars to live on instead, cuts no ice - that's money they're determined to pass on to their children, and besides, "I'm entitled to the pension!" 

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with older people who want to hang onto the family home because it's their home and they can't bear to leave it.  I do have a problem with older people wanting to hang onto the family home just because it lets them greedily claim a welfare benefit they don't really need.  (For clarity, unlike the UK, Australians don't pay into a pension fund like National Insurance.  Pensions are a benefit, like unemployment benefit).

It has often been suggested that your residence shouldn't be 100% exempt from the assets test. There could be a ceiling, e.g. $1 million.  But it's politically too sensitive, so it won't happen.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Marisawright

[Paul1Perth]

45 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Yes, that's the stupid thing.   I think it's wrong, personally.  Australia has a lot of old people struggling on the pension while living in a big old house worth two or three million dollars. They won't sell and move into a smaller place or a retirement village, because "I'll lose my pension!".  The fact that they'd have over a million dollars to live on instead, cuts no ice - that's money they're determined to pass on to their children, and besides, "I'm entitled to the pension!" 

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with older people who want to hang onto the family home because it's their home and they can't bear to leave it.  I do have a problem with older people wanting to hang onto the family home just because it lets them greedily claim a welfare benefit they don't really need.  (For clarity, unlike the UK, Australians don't pay into a pension fund like National Insurance.  Pensions are a benefit, like unemployment benefit).

It has often been suggested that your residence shouldn't be 100% exempt from the assets test. There could be a ceiling, e.g. $1 million.  But it's politically too sensitive, so it won't happen.

I don't have a problem with that. If an old person likes where they live, has friends and a support group close by, likes the area and is capable of living on their own then let them get the pension. 

The house, specially if you're in Sydney or Melbourne, would not have been worth millions when you bought it, just luck has made it worth that now.

I have a couple of friends I play golf with who complain about not getting their pension but they have their own houses, investment properties, land, plenty of spare cash judging by some of the holidays they take. Those are the types that shouldn't get it.

[Toots]

42 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

I don't have a problem with that. If an old person likes where they live, has friends and a support group close by, likes the area and is capable of living on their own then let them get the pension. 

The house, specially if you're in Sydney or Melbourne, would not have been worth millions when you bought it, just luck has made it worth that now.

I have a couple of friends I play golf with who complain about not getting their pension but they have their own houses, investment properties, land, plenty of spare cash judging by some of the holidays they take. Those are the types that shouldn't get it.

What do they have to whinge about?   Fancy complaining about not receiving the pension.  Give the pension to all those that really need it.  I hear about people always on the lookout for what they can get from the government when they really have no need for handouts and some people seem to know how to work the system and get away with it.