MARYROSE02 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Havent they reached safety by being in France ? Or are the benefits not as good as the UK there must be a reason they want to get into the UK and not stop in France or should the UK adopt a open door policy as well and just let any body in. You are quick to put everybody down who has a different view to yourself but you haven't come up with a credible alternative to solve the situation. Good point. I mean you can understand people wanting to get to OZ at any cost and avoid all the third world places on the way, but France is a 1st world democracy and a welfare state isn't it? But still not as good as UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pookie72 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Yes, I have to ask the same question. Why do they all want to get into the UK from France. Language is one advantage, but also employment opportunities and a growing UK economy. Italy has an unemployment figure of 12.4%, France 10.5%, Spain 22.7%, Greece 25.6% and the UK 5.4%. Automatic entitlement to UK benefits is a myth. Migrants from outside of the European Economic Area can only access social security benefits and tax credits if they have indefinite leave to remain. Many of the migrants arriving in the UK will not gain this status. The only other way illegal immigrants can receive financial support from in the UK is if they claim asylum and become asylum seekers. This welfare support is less generous than the social security benefits that any person from the EU can access. When granted asylum seeker status, you are generally not allowed to work until your case has been resolved. So, let's look at those employment figures again to see why the UK is so attractive.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Yes, I have to ask the same question. Why do they all want to get into the UK from France. Seriously I know which country I would prefer and a clue is it isn't France. ☺ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Language is one advantage, but also employment opportunities and a growing UK economy. Italy has an unemployment figure of 12.4%, France 10.5%, Spain 22.7%, Greece 25.6% and the UK 5.4%. Automatic entitlement to UK benefits is a myth. Migrants from outside of the European Economic Area can only access social security benefits and tax credits if they have indefinite leave to remain. Many of the migrants arriving in the UK will not gain this status. The only other way illegal immigrants can receive financial support from in the UK is if they claim asylum and become asylum seekers. This welfare support is less generous than the social security benefits that any person from the EU can access. When granted asylum seeker status, you are generally not allowed to work until your case has been resolved. So, let's look at those employment figures again to see why the UK is so attractive.... So they all come in. Find jobs and start contributing to the UK economy and pay their taxes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 This is a huge problem currently for the UK. What should be done ? UK is raising large fences to keep them out. Is this action any different to Australia turning back the boats. http://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/30/calaisthousands-of-migrants-storm-channel-tunnel.html Iam about as far from a bleeding heart left winger as you can get but .....if Blair had left Saddam in charge ,there would be no Isis ...isis are mainly made up of ex Iraqi Sunni police and republican guard disbanded after the 2nd gulf war . And that nasty colonel ghaddaffi used to stop all the boats sailing from Libya...and oh dear mr Cameron and Mr sarkhozy got rid of him .....oh dear ...now look at it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee13 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Dang....sounds like something our ancestors did sometime ago.. !! Edited July 30, 2015 by gee13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 So they all come in. Find jobs and start contributing to the UK economy and pay their taxes? I doubt they pay taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallyman Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 With no paper work , ID how are they going to get jobs. If you employ a non British citizen by law you have to see their passport and working visa if outside of Europe ... Only on the black market cash in hand , working illegally putting themselves at risk with OHS and getting a fraction of the rate that should be paid . This then has a knock on effect for legitimate companies who can no longer compete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 The French are the problem, can't deal with any issue............happened in 1939, and we'll have to step and sort it on both sides on the Channel, it's a joke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pookie72 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 So they all come in. Find jobs and start contributing to the UK economy and pay their taxes? With no paper work , ID how are they going to get jobs. If you employ a non British citizen by law you have to see their passport and working visa if outside of Europe ... Only on the black market cash in hand , working illegally putting themselves at risk with OHS and getting a fraction of the rate that should be paid . This then has a knock on effect for legitimate companies who can no longer compete Yes and no. Those who are granted indefinite leave to remain, will pay taxes and contribute to the system. Those that enter the UK illegally and don't initially get caught, are forced into entering the world of illegal work for survival. There is plenty of work on the black market in the UK and sadly these desperate people are exploited for the greed of others. People smuggling and modern slavery is very much alive in the UK. So is the ability to gain false identification documents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Those that enter the UK illegally and don't initially get caught, are forced into entering the world of illegal work for survival. There is plenty of work on the black market in the UK and sadly these desperate people are exploited for the greed of others. People smuggling and modern slavery is very much alive in the UK. So is the ability to gain false identification documents. Or they resort to crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pookie72 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Or they resort to crime. Very true, but you could argue they have already broken the law by entering illegally... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 So help me understand.They have got into Spain or France somehow. Why are they not safe there ? Why should Britain accept them. Similar to our problem in Australia where so called Asylum Seekers travel through numerous countries trying to get to the promised land. The Australian scenario has been explained numerous times in regards to the passing through other countries. Barely worth repeating again. No one has said Britain must accept them but should accept a quota. As always claimed a political solution needs to be found overall and statesmen like behaviour in lieu of populist sentiment expressed. France actually does have a quota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Yes and no. Those who are granted indefinite leave to remain, will pay taxes and contribute to the system. Those that enter the UK illegally and don't initially get caught, are forced into entering the world of illegal work for survival. There is plenty of work on the black market in the UK and sadly these desperate people are exploited for the greed of others. People smuggling and modern slavery is very much alive in the UK. So is the ability to gain false identification documents. Sadly the black economy does use and exploit these people. This makes it very hard to manage of course. In the 80's it was the Poles, long before EU membership who were exploited. Nothing much changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I doubt they pay taxes. Not if working on the black but save small business many millions in the underpayment of correct wages as well as pocketing NHI payments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Havent they reached safety by being in France ? Or are the benefits not as good as the UK there must be a reason they want to get into the UK and not stop in France or should the UK adopt a open door policy as well and just let any body in. You are quick to put everybody down who has a different view to yourself but you haven't come up with a credible alternative to solve the situation. You may as well say didn't they reach safety when arriving in Italy or Greece or Malta. I am quick to put down the unthinking, tabloid repetition of the reffo bashers all too apparent on here. I have actually suggested a few ways forward but expect those of a self righteous nature are so incensed by events provoked by populists that they are beyond thinking of actual alternatives. No body has ever claimed UK should have an open door policy. Yet another emotive response to a trying situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 The French are the problem, can't deal with any issue............happened in 1939, and we'll have to step and sort it on both sides on the Channel, it's a joke! Having lived in France I can safely say it is The English in particular who are seen as a constant problem. In French eyes they are reluctant Europeans, done little but whinge since being in EU, poor team players, living on a cold dank island that hold a rather high regard for moving to France for a better quality of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Not if working on the black but save small business many millions in the underpayment of correct wages as well as pocketing NHI payments. They may pay vat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 The fix is easy. Anyone who enters illegally is immediately deported back to their country of origin. Not back to France. The country of origin. No legal appeals, no lengthy legal process and no thought of what they face when they get there. On a plane the same day. Yes, the European courts will shout and scream. Tough. Make it very well known to the illegals in France what will happen when they are caught. Then, as a safety measure. Fill the tunnel with nitrogen. Simple, cheap and easy to do. Has no effect on the trains or the passengers. But removes oxygen from the tunnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) [sarcasm]I wonder why they want to cross the channel? If they really are "refugees" they can claim refuge in France surely?[/sarcasm] "I heard good news about England. They give you a house and some money to spend and live. And then they give them the opportunity to study, to have a good life."Hamzei, from Afghanistan "In England I can get a house very quickly. England is a very good place to have a good life." Fadi, from Syria "There are no ID cards. They can easily find work outside the formal economy, which is not really controlled." Natacha Bouchart, Mayor of Calais "I want to go to England because I have relatives and my father in England." Abdul, from Pakistan Quotes from the ultra-right-wing BBC If we stopped giving the world the impression that we have free houses, money, healthcare, and other benefits ready to be given away for anyone who rocks up in Blighty, we may get fewer crossing France. Edited July 31, 2015 by Thom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Then, as a safety measure. Fill the tunnel with nitrogen. Simple, cheap and easy to do. Has no effect on the trains or the passengers. But removes oxygen from the tunnel. Lulz - what do you imagine the train passengers breathe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 If UK had a quota system for intake as does France and Germany, who are taking the bulk, they would I suspect get more support from French authorities, in helping to curtail the numbers attempting to force their way in. While small in number, and from reports I've read, a number have family or at least contacts in UK being a reason in going there. Of course English being the international language and welfare provisions would all feature. Still greater numbers are attempting to gain settlement in Sweden and Norway than UK. Still a situation that urgently seeks a sensible outcome to what appears an ongoing crisis across the continent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 The fix is easy.Anyone who enters illegally is immediately deported back to their country of origin. Not back to France. The country of origin. No legal appeals, no lengthy legal process and no thought of what they face when they get there. On a plane the same day. Yes, the European courts will shout and scream. Tough. Make it very well known to the illegals in France what will happen when they are caught. Then, as a safety measure. Fill the tunnel with nitrogen. Simple, cheap and easy to do. Has no effect on the trains or the passengers. But removes oxygen from the tunnel. Sounds good in theory but the courts would be full of Human Rights cases in days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny842003 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Having lived in France I can safely say it is The English in particular who are seen as a constant problem. In French eyes they are reluctant Europeans, done little but whinge since being in EU, poor team players, living on a cold dank island that hold a rather high regard for moving to France for a better quality of life. They wouldn't even let us in the EU. Done little but whinge and oh free Europe from Nazi tyrany..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 They wouldn't even let us in the EU. Done little but whinge and oh free Europe from Nazi tyrany..... Not exactly right as it was the Common Market in those days. De Gaulle, the President at the time had little time for the English safe haven spent his war time years in exile there. English Arrogance versus French stubbornness I suppose. Although both share almost equally in both. Not a combination to hit it off though. No doubt insight led De Gaulle into coming to the conclusion that Britain would only be trouble inside a Union. (as well as dissolve French power/influence somewhat) As for the liberation remark it was hardly Britain alone liberated Europe. The Americans and Soviets made it happen with a lot of outside support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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