caramac Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 You are only considering "refugees" and asylum seekers, not all immigrants though. I thought that's what we were talking about....? :eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 So lets assume that all the immigrants wishing to get to Britain are skilled people and do not want to claim benefits and are fleeing from war torn countries/persecution, and therefore will be entitled to claim asylum. How many can we take before there are not enough jobs, not enough houses, not enough school places, doctors, hospital beds and so on and so on. We work with other countries to take a fair proportion. No one is saying 'open the flood gates', but we have a responsibility to take a share (assessed and proven to be refugees). It's not an all or nothing situation. How many asylum seekers who are given refugee status will train to become the teachers, drs, nurses etc our public services need? In my little world I personally know four drs who came as refugees from Iran in the eighties. Yes, they're using public services, but they're also contributing, both financially and professionally. How many, given the opportunity, will become business owners, providing jobs for others? There will be those with great drive and ambition and there will be those who don't, just like the indigenous population. There were similar worries about the Jewish refugees 70 years ago. Most of them seemed to learn English, build businesses, become teachers, drs, politicians etc. and integrate into society successfully. I really feel for those hauliers and lorry drivers who are being affected by the disruption - it must be horrendous. Not just the waiting around, but the threats of violence many are facing and the worry of unwittingly carrying people into the UK - I'm sure there's some organised trafficking going on, and those traffickers should be dealt with with the full force of the law, but we have to have compassion for those who are genuinely desperate and escaping intolerable lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I couldn't agree more, but what solutions are there being offered? Some, myself included, would prefer a more rigorous screening process and refusal or repatriation if need be. Hah, start shooting them as I suggested above. That's the problem with you pinko leftie types. No stomach when there's real work to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 You are only considering "refugees" and asylum seekers, not all immigrants though. I thought that's what we were talking about....? :eek: The subject was refugees and those classed as economic migrants not the overall yearly arrival intake. The poster does prefer to sensationalise even trivialise (not to say mislead) a difficult situation in order to further particular stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 So lets assume that all the immigrants wishing to get to Britain are skilled people and do not want to claim benefits and are fleeing from war torn countries/persecution, and therefore will be entitled to claim asylum. How many can we take before there are not enough jobs, not enough houses, not enough school places, doctors, hospital beds and so on and so on. That's why a quota shared among other countries within the EU could be a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 This Parliamentary report makes interesting reading - suggests the situation in the UK is not quite as extreme as people might think: http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn06077.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 Britain is paying out £70 Million per year to failed asylum seekers. http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/596150/migrant-crisis-Britain-failed-asylum-seekers-immigration-Home-Office-Government-benefits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Britain is paying out £70 Million per year to failed asylum seekers. When you do the sums, it works out at under £5k per failed asylum seeker. It's not exactly "ker-ching", is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 Show why you need to stop them getting in in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 You are only considering "refugees" and asylum seekers, not all immigrants though. I thought that's what we were talking about....? :eek: Did you not read the thread title? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Really? [ATTACH=CONFIG]30755[/ATTACH] You are only considering "refugees" and asylum seekers, not all immigrants though. so what would Australia's number be on this basis - 10m, 15m, 20m? - we are all immigrants here. Stick that up on the list! Immigrant doesnt automatically mean bad - if it does Australia is in trouble! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 so what would Australia's number be on this basis - 10m, 15m, 20m? - we are all immigrants here. Stick that up on the list! Immigrant doesnt automatically mean bad - if it does Australia is in trouble! Not the same though is it. To get in here you have to have qualifications, a decent job on the list, apply for immigration, wait till you get accepted, pay for your medicals and all the other expenses and then, happy days, you get the visa before you come. If the same criteria were applied to the people waiting in Calais and the thousands getting in to Europe on a weekly basis then no-one would be getting in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi69 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Not the same though is it. To get in here you have to have qualifications, a decent job on the list, apply for immigration, wait till you get accepted, pay for your medicals and all the other expenses and then, happy days, you get the visa before you come. If the same criteria were applied to the people waiting in Calais and the thousands getting in to Europe on a weekly basis then no-one would be getting in. Shouldnt the uk be more like Aus. If you have a skill that's needed, pass the tests, do some exams, go all round the houses getting the paperwork needed. why should the UK be an easy touch? we were once new to another country (Aus) and had to jump thru hoops to get here, with no welfare state on offer. We did the grind, cos this us where we wanted to be. these people, just want to get to the UK, claim whatever they can. The law allows this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I thought that's what we were talking about....? :eek: Did you not read the thread title? I did. I thought it was simply the usual perjorative misuse of 'illegal immigrant' to mean asylum seeker. There's no such thing as an illegal asylum seeker. EU migrants can come and go as they like, just as we can to their countries, and those who are not asylum seekers/refugees must have come via usual routes, so are not 'illegal'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Shouldnt the uk be more like Aus. If you have a skill that's needed, pass the tests, do some exams, go all round the houses getting the paperwork needed. why should the UK be an easy touch? we were once new to another country (Aus) and had to jump thru hoops to get here, with no welfare state on offer. We did the grind, cos this us where we wanted to be. these people, just want to get to the UK, claim whatever they can. The law allows this. I guess during your time working towards your visa, you or you family weren't subjected to torture, rape, beatings, murder? The hoops many of these people have jumped through, including risking their lives by escaping by any means they can, are far worse than qualifying for a needed skill,milling in some forms and parting with a bit of cash (although there are those who do sell everything to buy their passage from people traffickers). My husband has a patient at the moment who watched her entire family beaten and murdered in front of her - her parents, husband and kids. I'm not sure she had the wherewithal after that to take any tests or exams. She's waiting for her claim for asylum to be considered - she's (like all unprocessed asylum seekers) not entitled to benefits, bar around £5 a day subsistence allowance and she's housed in a flat no one else wants to live in - completely unfurnished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) I do apologise, if they know someone then of course we should just let them wander right on in! Its all very well having a bleeding heart but that is not going to feed, house, clothe, educate etc etc, these immigrants. And to answer your question, I do not expect that France should have to take them all in, I did say France/Europe as I do not know which other safe countries they have passed through in order to be standing in Calais tearing down the fences. If these immigrants weren't so intent on getting to the UK then Europe, as a whole, would be doing a lot more to stop it. You can't focus solely on the 1200 or so immigrants that are trying to get into the UK right now but see the bigger picture, there are millions that will come if we don't stop it. And aside from the financial impact on the Uk, our little island just isn't big enough. UK is plenty big enough to accept a share of those judged in need of asylum rather than purely economic migrants. As I mention with some repetition a quota system of so many thousand a year would be the way to go until something more durable can be sorted out among all nations being impacted. Nothing to do with bleeding hearts but pure common sense. UK is far from the most impacted. The bigger picture certainly needs to be looked and solutions sought but without the shrillness of the right of politics who too often lead debate on the matter in Britain. Edited August 5, 2015 by flag of convenience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) I did. I thought it was simply the usual perjorative misuse of 'illegal immigrant' to mean asylum seeker. There's no such thing as an illegal asylum seeker. EU migrants can come and go as they like, just as we can to their countries, and those who are not asylum seekers/refugees must have come via usual routes, so are not 'illegal'. Well when I see a title which reads "Thousands of illegals trying to storm the UK border to cross into Britain" for some reason I tend to think the person writing it wants to talk about people trying to enter illegally. I know, I'm a bit odd like that. So I take it from your chatting about "no such thing as an illegal asylum seeker" and "EU migrants can come and go as they like" and also "must have come via usual routes, so are not 'illegal'", you seem to indicate there is no one trying to enter the UK illegally, and that we should just let everyone at Calais in. Is that correct? Well that's certainly A perspective I will admit. Odd, irrational, and frankly barking mad, as it may be. But it's not one which stands up to the slightest scintilla of examination or rational thought. Is it? Lets have a look now at planet sane shall we? At least 2,900 asylum seeker families who have exhausted all their appeal rights to stay in Britain will each year have to leave the country within 28 days, or face destitution, under hardline plans on asylum support published by Home Office ministers on Tuesday. "Failed asylum seekers"? You mean to say Grauniad, that there is such a thing as an asylum seeker with no rights to remain in the UK? How come? They are all legal, aren't they? Edited August 5, 2015 by Thom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Well when I see a title which reads "Thousands of illegals trying to storm the UK border to cross into Britain" for some reason I tend to think the person writing it wants to talk about people trying to enter illegally. I know, I'm a bit odd like that. So I take it from your chatting about "no such thing as an illegal asylum seeker" and "EU migrants can come and go as they like" and also "must have come via usual routes, so are not 'illegal'", you seem to indicate there is no one trying to enter the UK illegally, and that we should just let everyone at Calais in. Is that correct? Well that's certainly A perspective I will admit. Odd, irrational, and frankly barking mad, as it may be. But it's not one which stands up to the slightest scintilla of examination or rational thought. is it? Your right just a bit odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j19jjr Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 UK is plenty big enough to accept a share of those judged in need of asylum rather than purely economic migrants. As I mention with some repetition a quota system of so many thousand a year would be the way to go until something more durable can be sorted out among all nations being impacted. Nothing to do with bleeding hearts but pure common sense. UK is far from the most impacted. The bigger picture certainly needs to be looked and solutions sought but without the shrillness of the right of politics who too often lead debate on the matter in Britain. Why do you always have to assume that someone is right wing because they do not agree with a mass influx of refugees/asylum seekers/immigrants? Can someone not just be level headed enough to realise that our country has enough financial demands as it is, and by continually adding to this, cannot be sustained long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallyman Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Add in the that the NHS is over stretched, you can't see a dentist unless you pay private now, ex servicemen living on the streets, a mass housing shortage , what is the population of the UK now 65million plus ? at some point something has to give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Why do you always have to assume that someone is right wing because they do not agree with a mass influx of refugees/asylum seekers/immigrants? Can someone not just be level headed enough to realise that our country has enough financial demands as it is, and by continually adding to this, cannot be sustained long term. Perhaps because there is not a mass influx. Emotive words but thoroughly understandable with the way the whole situation is unfolding and the pictures and media reports around the matter, not to say to huge cost to interruption of travel, transport, wasted products and the like. Some solution certainly needs to be found that doesn't pander to the hard core gas them/shoot them/ or other wise dehumanise them variety call them what you will, but looks for lasting solutions. Believe me numbers are low entering/seeking to enter UK than going to many other countries. So hardly alone. Problems shared that sort of thing is desperately required to search a lasting solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Add in the that the NHS is over stretched, you can't see a dentist unless you pay private now, ex servicemen living on the streets, a mass housing shortage , what is the population of the UK now 65million plus ? at some point something has to give. Only 13% of UK is born abroad. Refugees but a very small number of those. Hardly foreigners taping into resources to any great extent. Perhaps more to do with your government cutbacks in many areas as to declining services. Always good to have a scapegoat though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallyman Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Only 13% of UK is born abroad. Refugees but a very small number of those. Hardly foreigners taping into resources to any great extent. Perhaps more to do with your government cutbacks in many areas as to declining services. Always good to have a scapegoat though. Not my government not sure where you get that from . So the NHS is not over stretched and as far as I can remember and read about it ,it's been pretty well at breaking point for a long time , well before this government had been elected . I have witnessed this first hand when my wife worked in it. The mass housing shortage I must have made that one up but let's put the asylum seekers up in hotels at a cost of thousands to the tax payer. Not looking for scapegoats just making a few comments that the UK is under pressure to look after its own people. As you keep telling us they are seeking asylum so they must be let into the UK . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 you can't see a dentist unless you pay private now, That just isn't true, not even remotely true, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallyman Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 That just isn't true, not even remotely true, sorry. Unless things have changed dramatically since I lived in UK (5 years ago) that was my experience you could not see a NHS dentist only as a private patient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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