bristolman Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Unless things have changed dramatically since I lived in UK (5 years ago) that was my experience you could not see a NHS dentist only as a private patient Well I would have to say things have changed dramatically then. You still see adverts for dentists taking new NHS patients. We got our whole family straight onto the books of a local dentist. Perhaps it's true in some areas of London ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Not my government not sure where you get that from . So the NHS is not over stretched and as far as I can remember and read about it ,it's been pretty well at breaking point for a long time , well before this government had been elected . I have witnessed this first hand when my wife worked in it. The mass housing shortage I must have made that one up but let's put the asylum seekers up in hotels at a cost of thousands to the tax payer. Not looking for scapegoats just making a few comments that the UK is under pressure to look after its own people. As you keep telling us they are seeking asylum so they must be let into the UK . There were housing shortages in the 80's, thanks the large numbers of subsidised stock being sold off for reasons of ideology. Hardly surprising it shortages persist thirty years later with the shape of politics on all sides. NHS is no doubt in decline with the hope in Tory circles anyway if not a few so termed New Labour that the public will beg for privatisation as a proposed means of improving the service. Old trick run it down first and dilute opposition. Asylum seekers have long been put up in hotels and boarding houses along with Britain's own homeless. It was quite a business with some in the decades past. Easy money and in return provide the minimum service possible. Anyway lucky for you then possessing such thoughts that entry into the UK is down the list of preferred options among those entering Europe. Gosh imagine even half Germany's intake a month. You folk would be taking to the lifeboats by all accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Well I would have to say things have changed dramatically then. You still see adverts for dentists taking new NHS patients. We got our whole family straight onto the books of a local dentist. Perhaps it's true in some areas of London ? I wonder if Aussie dentists are still making very handsome livings in London in their droves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I wonder if Aussie dentists are still making very handsome livings in London in their droves? I have absolutely no doubt they are. Even staying at home they must make a fortune with what they charge for treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Only 13% of UK is born abroad. Refugees but a very small number of those. Hardly foreigners taping into resources to any great extent. Perhaps more to do with your government cutbacks in many areas as to declining services. Always good to have a scapegoat though. Only 31,300 new applications for asylum in UK last year (14) from my figures. Considerable but hardly a swarm has someone suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I have absolutely no doubt they are. Even staying at home they must make a fortune with what they charge for treatment. Which only begs the question what must they be earning in UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Which only begs the question what must they be earning in UK? In a private practise in Harley Street, a not inconsiderable fortune. Luckily we have a great NHS dentists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 In a private practise in Harley Street, a not inconsiderable fortune. Luckily we have a great NHS dentists I knew a few that worked for NHS. I suspect a little crafty claiming was going on but never got to the bottom of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Add in the that the NHS is over stretched, As are schools, as are housing stocks, as are social services, etc etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Unless things have changed dramatically since I lived in UK (5 years ago) that was my experience you could not see a NHS dentist only as a private patient Things have changed dramatically in the last five years due to, guess what? There was a recruitment drive from overseas, so now most people can access NHS dental services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 As are schools, as are housing stocks, as are social services, etc etc.. Do you ever wonder how successful economies (e.g. USA, Australia, UAE, UK) have managed to grow whilst taking in immigrants whilst those countries that have closed their borders seem to have stagnating economies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Things have changed dramatically in the last five years due to, guess what? There was a recruitment drive from overseas, so now most people can access NHS dental services. Not due to the Tories surely ? I thought they were only interested in running the NHS into the ground lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Not due to the Tories surely ? I thought they were only interested in running the NHS into the ground lol Off topic, but no, I think it started in the mid 00s (when there was also an increase in the number of domestic students taken into dental school) when there was a bit of an exodus from the NHS by dentists who couldn't make the new contracts (labour introduced) work for them. The Tories are looking at changing what we get through. They're talking about having everyone assessed, then being charged according to their current dental health state - the worse your teeth are, the more you pay. It won't be banded according to treatment level, as it is now. Its still at the consultation stage, according to my dentist, so who knows what the future will bring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Off topic, but no, I think it started in the mid 00s (when there was also an increase in the number of domestic students taken into dental school) when there was a bit of an exodus from the NHS by dentists who couldn't make the new contracts (labour introduced) work for them.The Tories are looking at changing what we get through. They're talking about having everyone assessed, then being charged according to their current dental health state - the worse your teeth are, the more you pay. It won't be banded according to treatment level, as it is now. Its still at the consultation stage, according to my dentist, so who knows what the future will bring. Oh, that sounds fair. So, the people with the worst teeth, who just happen to be the poorest, have the most to pay? Tories, eh? I don't want to use the 'S' word in case I upset someone.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j19jjr Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Oh, that sounds fair. So, the people with the worst teeth, who just happen to be the poorest, have the most to pay? Tories, eh? I don't want to use the 'S' word in case I upset someone.... No please do go on, the poorest with their tax credits & magical medical exemption cards, pay more than me??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 No please do go on, the poorest with their tax credits & magical medical exemption cards, pay more than me??? oh poor you, my heart bleeds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Only 31,300 new applications for asylum in UK last year (14) from my figures. Considerable but hardly a swarm has someone suggested. They are applicants though flag. Not the "swarm" with no papers waiting in Calais and getting into Europe by the thousands every week. It's fine for people to comment on what the UK should do while they live here in a place that is doing something about the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Do you ever wonder how successful economies (e.g. USA, Australia, UAE, UK) have managed to grow whilst taking in immigrants whilst those countries that have closed their borders seem to have stagnating economies? I've never wondered that, as I've seen no evidence for it. You'd be hard pushed to isolate "closed borders" as a causative variable, but I await your evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I've never wondered that, as I've seen no evidence for it. You'd be hard pushed to isolate "closed borders" as a causative variable, but I await your evidence. Just as a general rule of thumb - top of the list are countries like Bhutan, Albania until 1991, DPRK - where there is almost no migration, either outward or inward. But also, arguably, the nations that make it very hard to come in or out (e.g. the former Soviet Bloc; Indo-China until very receint years; most of Africa; etc.). Generally, freedom of movement and freedom of trade go towards building strong economies. Protectionism goes towards making bad, stagnating economies. This idea of a finite number of jobs, houses, hospitals etc. is just not the way economies work. Economies, like successful businesses, want to expand and innovate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Do you ever wonder how successful economies (e.g. USA, Australia, UAE, UK) have managed to grow whilst taking in immigrants whilst those countries that have closed their borders seem to have stagnating economies? All for different reasons. I think we were the only country that managed to avoid the GFC so it depends what time in history you pick to see whether countries were growing. During the GFC years the USA and UK were in dire straights and no amount of emigration or controlling it wouldn't have made one iota of difference. Aus did well over the last few years because of the mining boom and the demands from China. The UAE do well because of the oil and the masses of slave labour they get from the phillipines and other nations they treat like slaves. As far as the UK and USA go the juries still out whether they in a lasting upturn. Whilst people are still on zero hour contracts and low pay with no guaranteed hours then it's not a recovery as far as I'm concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Oh, that sounds fair. So, the people with the worst teeth, who just happen to be the poorest, have the most to pay? Tories, eh? I don't want to use the 'S' word in case I upset someone.... That's exactly what I said to my dentist and she told me that's the biggest objection they (dentists) have. All those kids who have parents who care about their oral health, who also happen to be, in the main, richer, will pay less as adults than those whose parents couldn't or wouldn't look after them. I thought a good idea would be to get dentists/dental nurses into schools to educate children and maybe give out toothbrushes/paste in the same way chlamydia testing kits, condoms etc are given out - after all, early intervention in everything health related is the most cost effective route to take, but she doubts there would be money made available for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bound4Tassie Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Off topic, but no, I think it started in the mid 00s (when there was also an increase in the number of domestic students taken into dental school) when there was a bit of an exodus from the NHS by dentists who couldn't make the new contracts (labour introduced) work for them.The Tories are looking at changing what we get through. They're talking about having everyone assessed, then being charged according to their current dental health state - the worse your teeth are, the more you pay. It won't be banded according to treatment level, as it is now. Its still at the consultation stage, according to my dentist, so who knows what the future will bring. Those practices in the pilot schemes are losing patients in droves as it takes so long to get seen as all the assessment takes so long to do. Dentists can't see as many patients so more dentists will be needed. The pilot is a flop and needs a massive rethink. It will cause even more dentists to leave the NHS as the 2006 contract did. Corporates will own loads of practices stocked with EU dentists. Conditions for the dentists will be poor so they'll move on every 3-6 months with no continuation of care for the patients. You have been warned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Those practices in the pilot schemes are losing patients in droves as it takes so long to get seen as all the assessment takes so long to do. Dentists can't see as many patients so more dentists will be needed. The pilot is a flop and needs a massive rethink. It will cause even more dentists to leave the NHS as the 2006 contract did. Corporates will own loads of practices stocked with EU dentists. Conditions for the dentists will be poor so they'll move on every 3-6 months with no continuation of care for the patients. You have been warned! I completely agree with you. It's a mess, but as usual, it'll be the dentists who get the blame (just as it is with drs and nurses 'not working weekends' atm). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bound4Tassie Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I have a nagging suspicion that both recent governments want to be rid of nhs dentistry without it ever being their fault. How do you achieve that? Make increasingly unworkable systems that dentists feel they don't want to be part of...they'll leave the NHS ....looks like greedy dentists fault for going private, not the government. Job done. I might be too cynical though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I have a nagging suspicion that both recent governments want to be rid of nhs dentistry without it ever being their fault. How do you achieve that? Make increasingly unworkable systems that dentists feel they don't want to be part of...they'll leave the NHS ....looks like greedy dentists fault for going private, not the government. Job done. I might be too cynical though! Nope, just sounds like you know what's going on from the inside instead of believing what you're being told.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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