Thom Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Just as a general rule of thumb - top of the list are countries like Bhutan, Albania until 1991, DPRK - where there is almost no migration, either outward or inward. But also, arguably, the nations that make it very hard to come in or out (e.g. the former Soviet Bloc; Indo-China until very receint years; most of Africa; etc.). Generally, freedom of movement and freedom of trade go towards building strong economies. Protectionism goes towards making bad, stagnating economies. This idea of a finite number of jobs, houses, hospitals etc. is just not the way economies work. Economies, like successful businesses, want to expand and innovate. ROTFLMFFAO!! you compare the "USA, Australia and the UK" with "Bhutan, Albania until 1991, DPRK", and tell me the reason the former are doing better economically is due to their "open borders for immigrants"?? ROTFLMFFAO!!! Seriously mate, you missed your calling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 No please do go on, the poorest with their tax credits & magical medical exemption cards, pay more than me??? Are you somehow suggesting the poor are better off being in that situation? Hardly going to get the same levels and standard of dental procedure as those who can pay and chose dentist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 They are applicants though flag. Not the "swarm" with no papers waiting in Calais and getting into Europe by the thousands every week. It's fine for people to comment on what the UK should do while they live here in a place that is doing something about the problem. Well no as a number are removed as failed applicants. The so called 'swarm' (why not plague you may ask yourself?) is emotive language but I admit though the numbers getting in are not big the look is very poor. Very different situation to the place you consider they do something about it no matter how brutal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Off topic, but no, I think it started in the mid 00s (when there was also an increase in the number of domestic students taken into dental school) when there was a bit of an exodus from the NHS by dentists who couldn't make the new contracts (labour introduced) work for them.The Tories are looking at changing what we get through. They're talking about having everyone assessed, then being charged according to their current dental health state - the worse your teeth are, the more you pay. It won't be banded according to treatment level, as it is now. Its still at the consultation stage, according to my dentist, so who knows what the future will bring. It sounds like one of the other million things the Tories are allegedly looking at bringing but amazingly never do. It sounds like something posted on Facebook to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I have a nagging suspicion that both recent governments want to be rid of nhs dentistry without it ever being their fault. How do you achieve that? Make increasingly unworkable systems that dentists feel they don't want to be part of...they'll leave the NHS ....looks like greedy dentists fault for going private, not the government. Job done. I might be too cynical though! Yes I think you might be too cynical lol. I have been hearing the same stuff for decades to be honest and still amazingly NHS dentists continue to provide first class treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 It sounds like one of the other million things the Tories are allegedly looking at bringing but amazingly never do. It sounds like something posted on Facebook to be honest. Might do to you, but it's a conversation I was having with my dentist and have spoken to my friend (whose husband is also a dentist) about. Just because you can't yet see it happening doesn't mean it isn't. Bound4Tassie seems to know that it's already being piloted. Indeed, if it doesn't work in the piloted areas, they may backtrack on implementing it. Or they may not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Might do to you, but it's a conversation I was having with my dentist and have spoken to my friend (whose husband is also a dentist) about. Just because you can't yet see it happening doesn't mean it isn't. Bound4Tassie seems to know that it's already being piloted. Indeed, if it doesn't work in the piloted areas, they may backtrack on implementing it. Or they may not. You may well be right but it would be unworkable and cost more than it saves. The poor don't pay anyway. There are just too many variables. Having said that the parents who give their young kids sugary drinks should be charged the maximum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 You may well be right but it would be unworkable and cost more than it saves. The poor don't pay anyway. There are just too many variables. Having said that the parents who give their young kids sugary drinks should be charged the maximum. Perhaps, but it's a lack of education in many cases. And what happens when those kids grow up when they'll have to pay for the errors of their parents? What about taxing those sugary drinks and using that money to educate? What about those who have medical conditions which adversely affect their dental health? Much better would be to invest in education at a young age. Evidence shows time and time again that early intervention in health is key and economically beneficial. I simply don't understand why its not the obvious route to take and why it's always the punitive measures they go for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Perhaps, but it's a lack of education in many cases. And what happens when those kids grow up when they'll have to pay for the errors of their parents? What about taxing those sugary drinks and using that money to educate? What about those who have medical conditions which adversely affect their dental health? Much better would be to invest in education at a young age. Evidence shows time and time again that early intervention in health is key and economically beneficial. I simply don't understand why its not the obvious route to take and why it's always the punitive measures they go for. I agree about education but surely in this day and age there can't be parents that are so stupid to think giving your kids sugary drinks is OK. It's like smoking when pregnant, no amount of education will reverse the strong element of stupid in those people. Our kids get regular check ups in our NHS surgery and are told how to brush and what to avoid so what more do they need to do ?All of their friends seem to have have good teeth so there seems to be a generational change happening. It is the stupid people that you will never change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I agree about education but surely in this day and age there can't be parents that are so stupid to think giving your kids sugary drinks is OK. It's like smoking when pregnant, no amount of education will reverse the strong element of stupid in those people. Our kids get regular check ups in our NHS surgery and are told how to brush and what to avoid so what more do they need to do ?All of their friends seem to have have good teeth so there seems to be a generational change happening. It is the stupid people that you will never change. Of of course there are people who won't change their behaviours, but there are those who really don't have any idea what they're doing. People who see no harm in putting apple juice in babies bottles, for example. Just because there's a minority, core group of those who don't care doesn't mean you shouldn't try to educate. It saves the country money in the long run when you're not doing complete dental clearances on 7 year olds, or endlessly filling rotten teeth. Not to mention the impact poor dental health can have on the rest of a persons health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bound4Tassie Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Might do to you, but it's a conversation I was having with my dentist and have spoken to my friend (whose husband is also a dentist) about. Just because you can't yet see it happening doesn't mean it isn't. Bound4Tassie seems to know that it's already being piloted. Indeed, if it doesn't work in the piloted areas, they may backtrack on implementing it. Or they may not. The traffic light system which IS being piloted currently was due to come in next year but the pilots aren't feasible at the moment. There were something like 160 clicks of the mouse needed to fill in all the boxes for a check up! Lets make the craziest system we can, the dentists will go private , we don't gave to ringfence any money for dentistry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I agree about education but surely in this day and age there can't be parents that are so stupid to think giving your kids sugary drinks is OK. It's like smoking when pregnant, no amount of education will reverse the strong element of stupid in those people. Our kids get regular check ups in our NHS surgery and are told how to brush and what to avoid so what more do they need to do ?All of their friends seem to have have good teeth so there seems to be a generational change happening. It is the stupid people that you will never change. Interesting you should say that - I was talking to my cousin the other day and she has been beating herself up for years at her daughter's non appearance of adult teeth; convinced herself it was because she gave her juice when she was a tot - turns out (with the arrival of the granddaughter) that the poor girl has IP as does her new daughter. In my generation there would have been loads of mums who gave their kids juice drinks. Very sad, you never can tell what's happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Interesting you should say that - I was talking to my cousin the other day and she has been beating herself up for years at her daughter's non appearance of adult teeth; convinced herself it was because she gave her juice when she was a tot - turns out (with the arrival of the granddaughter) that the poor girl has IP as does her new daughter. In my generation there would have been loads of mums who gave their kids juice drinks. Very sad, you never can tell what's happened. Our kids are 14 and still don't have all their adult teeth. Ours never had juice as babies because we knew it was bad, even now they don't drink soft drink, only milk and water. What's IP ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacaranda Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Years ago some parents would dip their babies dummies in honey!:eek:When my daughter started kindy,her little friend had the most awful teeth because of the honey dipped dummy when she was a baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Our kids are 14 and still don't have all their adult teeth. Ours never had juice as babies because we knew it was bad, even now they don't drink soft drink, only milk and water. What's IP ? It's a nasty little, very rare, x linked syndrome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miw54 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) What is the same is the desperation of humans in attempting to reach safety. This is naïve - the Calais migrants already have safety in France and could apply for asylum with eventually becoming European citizens and thereby gaining the right to travel to any European country legally. They just want to circumvent the normal procedures for economic benefits of the UK and are not real refugees. Genuine refugees would be glad of reaching anywhere where they were safe. No-one can blame anyone for wanting a better life but it is not possible for small countries to absorb millions of people just because this is what they want. More needs to be done to improve the quality of life and stamp out the corruption, dictatorships and power wars in those countries from which people want to leave. No easy answer but it requires all civilised governments to get their heads together and their finances to help people have a better life in their homelands. Edited August 10, 2015 by miw54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 This is naïve - the Calais migrants already have safety in France and could apply for asylum with eventually becoming European citizens and thereby gaining the right to travel to any European country legally. They just want to circumvent the normal procedures for economic benefits of the UK and are not real refugees. Genuine refugees would be glad of reaching anywhere where they were safe. No-one can blame anyone for wanting a better life but it is not possible for small countries to absorb millions of people just because this is what they want. More needs to be done to improve the quality of life and stamp out the corruption, dictatorships and power wars in those countries from which people want to leave. No easy answer but it requires all civilised governments to get their heads together and their finances to help people have a better life in their homelands. Pretty much what I suggested if read all my posts. The question of first asylum country though cannot be the case given most arrive in one of three countries. Namely Italy, Greece and Malta. Britain would be better served having a quota as many of the other countries have in place in order to facilitate genuine refugees have a legitimate means of possible entry. I have written with regards to the absurdity of the Calais situation previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bound4Tassie Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 This made me laugh..... http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/eu-threatens-to-send-expatriate-grandparents-home-2014102191918 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I do find it interesting that the Tories are using this episode to cut benefits in general. It's almost as if they hired a load of buses and shipped the immigrants to Calais, and then told them the first to make it through the tunnel gets £10000 and a free house. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 We've had a couple of documentaries recently about how many are getting to Kos and other Greek Islands. Mostly with the hope of getting to England and Germany judging by the responses of the ones interviewed. One guy was so disgusted by how they were being treated and the conditions that he said "if this is Europe we might as well go back to Syria". Expected a giant hooray if anyone had been in earshot. Wonder what he expected? Streets paved with gold and someone with a welcoming committee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 We've had a couple of documentaries recently about how many are getting to Kos and other Greek Islands. Mostly with the hope of getting to England and Germany judging by the responses of the ones interviewed. One guy was so disgusted by how they were being treated and the conditions that he said "if this is Europe we might as well go back to Syria". Expected a giant hooray if anyone had been in earshot. Wonder what he expected? Streets paved with gold and someone with a welcoming committee? From someone who is actually here in the u.k ,and went through Calais last week .....security is very tight now ...more fencing and patrols . Numbers attempting to breach the security have dropped dramitically . Anyway the tactics have changed for those hoping to reach the e.u . The immigrants are now coming via land into the e.u ...1500 a day are arriving in Hungary ,which is now part of the e.u . The Hungarians are busily building a security set up . Everyone talks about countries taking a quota .....how many should Greece take then ?...a million ...2 million ......greece is bankrupt . These people are arriving on the Greek island of kos ,demanding food and medicine ,and claiming its too hot I genuinely feel sorry for these people ...bush and Blair look what you started,when you got rid of Saddam ...cameron look what you caused when you ousted ghaddaffi ..... This is a powder keg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 They need to get some publicity going in these countries about the reality of living in tent cities and how it really is. Obviously those coming into Europe have some rose tinted spectacles on- looking at how things might have been once but are no longer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 They need to get some publicity going in these countries about the reality of living in tent cities and how it really is. Obviously those coming into Europe have some rose tinted spectacles on- looking at how things might have been once but are no longer The part of Europe I visited last week is still very much top of the tree ...no wonder they want to come ...probably the best quality of life I have seen ,including the united states and Australia ...but how many immigrants is Europe supposed to take .....lets say 1 million ...what happens when another 5 million turn up ? Places like Italy are steeped in thousand of years of history ,as is the u.k ....do they really want to wipe that out in the blink of an eye ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bobajob Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Let them in. Its that crowded and polluted already a few more won't make a difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miw54 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Let them in. Its that crowded and polluted already a few more won't make a difference Better still - send them all to Oz, loads of room there !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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