JockinTas Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 The visas of 490 foreigners have been cancelled by the Australian Government in the financial year up until the end of May. Immigration Minister Peter Dutton says there has been a dramatic increase in the number of cancellations over the past few months, with 24 rapists, 28 paedophiles and 12 murderers kicked out of Australia. Mr Dutton said the people who had their visas cancelled came from across the world, including the Middle East, Europe and the Pacific region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Can't see it would be a bad thing if crimes have been committed or bad character involved. I know they have focussed a lot on outlaw motorcycle gangs which is a big problem on the mainland. Quite a few have had visas cancelled. Usually they wait until they are on a holiday out of the country and cancel their visa so they can't get back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Quite rightly so. How did they get visas to start with? And if the crimes were committed here they should gave been deported immediatley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 . I don't believe any decision to deport should be by government decree. Although some cases are more obvious than others, an independent panel at the very least should be in place to ascertain deportation. This present government holding little faith in ability to do the correct regardless of legal considerations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Well, if they've committed the crimes suggested in the OP then I'm glad they're not in the country anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Jolly good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjg Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 . I don't believe any decision to deport should be by government decree. Although some cases are more obvious than others, an independent panel at the very least should be in place to ascertain deportation. This present government holding little faith in ability to do the correct regardless of legal considerations. How about we house then in public housing next to you? Im in total agreeance with the rest, crimes? Yes. non citizen? Yes. Visa cancelled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Visas are administrative and I think it is appropriate for Ministers to take decisions on when to grant or cancel them within the constraints set by Parliament. I am not even persuaded that there needs to be a crime committed for a visa to be cancelled. On the other hand, once a person is granted citizenship it should be for life. It is offensive for the state to act to expel its own citizens as this misunderstands the nature of the state and the role of the citizen. By all means try and punish citizens according to the law of the country, but never, ever, should a state have the right to expel one of its own, regardless of how awkward that citizen might choose to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 The visas of 490 foreigners have been cancelled by the Australian Government in the financial year up until the end of May. Immigration Minister Peter Dutton says there has been a dramatic increase in the number of cancellations over the past few months, with 24 rapists, 28 paedophiles and 12 murderers kicked out of Australia. Mr Dutton said the people who had their visas cancelled came from across the world, including the Middle East, Europe and the Pacific region. I can't be bothered to look up the stats but is that after they have served their sentence in oz or have they just been dumped back on their native soil for their home country to manage, it also makes one wonder what the other 434 had done to qualify for exile/transportation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Good riddance- but they should never have been allowed here to start with. Need a better checking system because I am sure these weren't first offences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I am sure these weren't first offences. Based on what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Quite rightly so. How did they get visas to start with? And if the crimes were committed here they should gave been deported immediatley If it's anything like previous cancellations, many of these people would have a PR visa because they arrived in Australia as children or young adults, and then they never bothered to get citizenship. They may have no memory of ever living elsewhere and may not speak the language of their country of origin. It is tough for those people but at the same time, they did commit crimes and if they were too bloody lazy to organise citizenship then it's their own fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Good riddance- but they should never have been allowed here to start with. Need a better checking system because I am sure these weren't first offences. You're assuming they were already criminals when they arrived - but as I said, last time this happened, many of them were people who arrived as children Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freckleface Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Visas are administrative and I think it is appropriate for Ministers to take decisions on when to grant or cancel them within the constraints set by Parliament. I am not even persuaded that there needs to be a crime committed for a visa to be cancelled. On the other hand, once a person is granted citizenship it should be for life. It is offensive for the state to act to expel its own citizens as this misunderstands the nature of the state and the role of the citizen. By all means try and punish citizens according to the law of the country, but never, ever, should a state have the right to expel one of its own, regardless of how awkward that citizen might choose to be. Unless you were born in a country I think citizenship is a privilege rather than a right. And like all privileges I don't have a problem with it being taken away if it is abused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Unless you were born in a country I think citizenship is a privilege rather than a right. And like all privileges I don't have a problem with it being taken away if it is abused. In that case, it would be more honest not to give citizenship to migrants and just give them visas instead. Visas are always subject to cancellation; citizenship is about belonging and being an integral part of a nation: once awarded it is not a privilege, it is a right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freckleface Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 In that case, it would be more honest not to give citizenship to migrants and just give them visas instead. Visas are always subject to cancellation; citizenship is about belonging and being an integral part of a nation: once awarded it is not a privilege, it is a right. There was a time I would have agreed with you. However PIO has made me realise that for many people citizenship is nothing more than a convenience. That realisation has changed the way I think citizens not born in a country can be dealt with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 It has always been the case that citizenship can be stripped and rightly so if someone fights in a war against Australia. That is treason and the person is rejecting Australia and actively working against her. The new laws are just extending that to include terrorist groups. Really just updating the laws for the modern realities like most other western countries are doing. This is different to non citizen criminals which is a separate issue and no reason why they should not be expelled if they are of poor character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 It has always been the case that citizenship can be stripped and rightly so if someone fights in a war against Australia. That is treason and the person is rejecting Australia and actively working against her. The new laws are just extending that to include terrorist groups. Really just updating the laws for the modern realities like most other western countries are doing. This is different to non citizen criminals which is a separate issue and no reason why they should not be expelled if they are of poor character. But terrorists are just criminals. Fighting a war against Australia is clearly treason. But going to another part of the world where Australian soldiers are not involved in order to fight in a civil war - how is that treasonable? And we heard on TV this week that simply expressing views hostile to the Government is viewed as terrorism. To me, that is being a gobshite, but not a terrorist. Where is the difference between getting lippy to a policeman and making shooting gestures with your fingers (ordinary criminal) and suggesting that government policy will encourage people to join ISIS (terrorism)? Terrorism is a catch all term used often by authoritarian governments to justify emergency powers and suppression of domestic opposition. I am thinking of regimes like RSA under PW Botha; the USSR under Stalin; Germany under the NSDAP (at the risk of Godwin's law being applied); Uganda under Idi Amin; Spain under Franco, etc. Is this really a model we want to copy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 The visas of 490 foreigners have been cancelled by the Australian Government in the financial year up until the end of May. Immigration Minister Peter Dutton says there has been a dramatic increase in the number of cancellations over the past few months, with 24 rapists, 28 paedophiles and 12 murderers kicked out of Australia. Mr Dutton said the people who had their visas cancelled came from across the world, including the Middle East, Europe and the Pacific region. Have they all been tried and found guilty of these crimes in a court of law jock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JockinTas Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Have they all been tried and found guilty of these crimes in a court of law jock? Yes PB, they have been convicted and found guilty in a court of law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 How about we house then in public housing next to you? Im in total agreeance with the rest, crimes? Yes. non citizen? Yes. Visa cancelled. Riding on public transport on a bridging visa without a ticket owing to a lack of funds and ending up in a detention centre. (awaiting deportation) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JockinTas Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Riding on public transport on a bridging visa without a ticket owing to a lack of funds and ending up in a detention centre. (awaiting deportation) Is this true? I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Riding on public transport on a bridging visa without a ticket owing to a lack of funds and ending up in a detention centre. (awaiting deportation) Have you got a source/link for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) Unless you were born in a country I think citizenship is a privilege rather than a right. And like all privileges I don't have a problem with it being taken away if it is abused. Could not agree more! Far too many covering their own back, if our children want to come back, if we change our mind etc etc. Perhaps it's time to extend eligability to apply to 10 years? Then maybe those that hate it and are so unhappy won't take the p!$$ , This is probably more relevant to those gaining citizenship by falsely claiming they want to live here for the foreseeable than those that commit crimes but the principal still stands. Edited June 28, 2015 by Que Sera, Sera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Was talking about this yesterday with my son who is applying for citizenship. He is applying because this is where he wants to live, where he sees his future, and takes the step seriously, not because as it would appear some posters who seriously dislike it here are doing it to hedge their bets just in case one day their children might want to come back. Seems dishonest to me to make insincere citizenship vows with no intention of staying. Before some posters say you never know what might happen in the future, I'm not talking about that scenario, just about the people who have no intention of staying and are going to bu---r off as quickly as they can as soon as they have citizenship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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