Guest Ptp113 Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 You are what, 29. How on earth would you understand anything about Thatcher other than what you have read. Most of us only know about anything from what we've read. Your point is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawny Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 We studied politics in our 2nd from last year at school,Studied before her time and during... ( maybe schools now should do the same) certainly an eye opener on why she did and what she had to do... No prime minister since her has tried to even put us back on track, if anything they have made the country worse!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 So did you work in the 70's? Not in the Uk as he wouldn't have talked such bollocks about it. Despite the rhetoric that the unions held the country to ransom, strikes were (in the main), brought about via ballots of the workers. The workers (in the main) wanted strike action. Now whether anyone beieves that the unions mislead their workers, is irrelevant.......................that's democracy......................they all had the chance to vote...............strikes where the (majority of) workers weren't in favour was a consequence of worker's apathy, not a consequence of union militancy............politicians mislead the public all the time................unions..........politicians.......no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 She took his milk off him when he was a nipper:sad: Bollox................he was still on the tlt................and is still on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyman Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 does anyone have any good memories of the Thatcher regime.........? the rich got richer and the poor got poorer..........most Grandparents from that era called he and detested her and that was a big thing for Grandparents to open up so much.........she destroyed mining communities and wrecked families all over the country........so as for my memories ..they are set in stone ........! and she was a stone faced person who seemed to enjoy watching the country crumble ........:ssign5: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongrel Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 I worked in the Uk in the 70,s 80,s , was on strike in 1980 in the steel strike . They brought the fat yank mcgregor as the gaffer, mass redundancies so strike , she then put him in charge of the coal board . And closed the pits , the alleged leaked hit list , leaked my arse it was to provoke hostility. 1984 17o pits , now 2 , communities screwed . The pits were the heart of the communities shut the pit no employment , no prospect of a job for the kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Unfortunately there is no point having a business that costs £100 to make £60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted April 9, 2013 Author Share Posted April 9, 2013 These pits have closed eventually anyway Coal supply wasn't unlimited, and they were unprofitable and being subsidised, so instead of long slow death of these places, with the union calling the shots, it was done quickly...too quickly? probably, but it was going to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyman Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 I know, the majority of people i know hated her and i do know the basics of what happened. My dad used to tell me. I've saw some of the jokes on facebook already aswell i dont do FB anymore so can we throw some joke on here on a new thread please ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyman Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Under normal circumstances I do believe in not speaking ill of the dead but......in this case I'm sorry but she didn't give a toss about who she hurt while she was in power. She ruined so many people's lives, she really was an evil witch Very well put fifi96................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 These pits have closed eventually anyway Coal supply wasn't unlimited, and they were unprofitable and being subsidised, so instead of long slow death of these places, with the union calling the shots, it was done quickly...too quickly? probably, but it was going to happen It's not a matter if the pits would have closed eventually it's the idealogical stance behind it. The UK govt at the time could have had a managed decline, introducing other methods of employment over time. Something akin to what the Germans did. No she wanted to smash the miners and rub their noses in it. Not many remember she caved in to a threatened strike in 81. Pre Scargill days, Joe Gormley or a similar name was president of NMU. Then the govt stocked up on reserves and were fully prepared to take on the miners in the next round. The revenge dished out was definately one of Thatcher's low points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyman Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Utterly pathetic slagging her now she's dead. You have all had 20 years since she quit politics. Get a life !! Get a life ? people committed suicide due to her and her death has just brought it all back . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 I said i didnt really have a opinion because of my age but really there are other moments in history that we still all have opinions about but we werent there either? Of course. History is an important subject as well as it tells us how we got where we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Of course. History is an important subject as well as it tells us how we got where we are. I know but theres people on both sides acting like if you werent working when she was around then your opinion isnt valid (i dont mean just on here, other places too). I said i didnt have a opinion yet because i only know the basics tbh, im going to do more research to find out more. It's quite interesting. I dont only listen to my parents opinions of these things, like to make my own mind up. Still learnt a lot from this thread though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 does anyone have any good memories of the Thatcher regime.........? the rich got richer and the poor got poorer..........most Grandparents from that era called he and detested her and that was a big thing for Grandparents to open up so much.........she destroyed mining communities and wrecked families all over the country........so as for my memories ..they are set in stone ........! and she was a stone faced person who seemed to enjoy watching the country crumble ........:ssign5: Possibly the bringing of people together against her policies would be one of the few social positives. I was at the Poll Tax so called riot and it was amusing in a sense how it was portrayed in the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 I wasn't going to get involved in this as she was divisive enough in her lifetime, without her creating division with her death.........................but......................I lived through that era as a full time union officer in the TGWU..............so.................here goes...........the "truth" from where I stood. How did she get so many terms in office wihen (it appeared) that she was despised by so many....................I know of many TGWU union members who voted for her at a time when the "working man" should have stood together. Why? Who was the "working man"? The one with the loudest voice? The dockers and the miners certainly were "loud", but did they ever fight for the working man as a whole? they pursued their own parochial claims whilst robbing the "purse" of what could have gone to much lower paid workers. Whilst they were pursuing claims of 30% and getting support from other unions, the TGWU pursuing claims of 4% got practically no help from them whatsoever........................it was all about "smash the tories" whilst the tories were all about "smash the miners and dockers". I was a "green card" holder.................a member of the communist party whilst holding a labour party card.................speaks volumes about those times eh?..................militant as buggery, but....................I saw the conflict for what it was and my "misguided" politics for what they were.....................a struggle for class superiority and nothing at all to do with worker's rights. This will be a ramble.....................no doubt Thatcher.....................far from restoring Britain to it's "greatness" did the almost impossible.....................she destroyed the "spirit of the blitz" where the upper class led, and the "working classes" trusted them to lead (despite their envy of the upper class positions)............where class counted for nought and "we're all in this together"...........Not in some ways, a bad thing, as perhaps it taught (in some way) the working class to aspire to greater heights, but she somehow managed it................created a division, never before seen since the tolpuddle martyrs. "Working class solidarity"? What a load of bollox! Are coppers not working class? I've stood on picket lines and faced up to riot shields wher a copper has poked his head round his shiled and said' " go for it my son. I'll be sat one my arse drawing invalidity benefit after this riot, long after your dole runs out." TBH, and I don't care a jot what anyone else thinks, those cops just loved the overtime and what Thatcher gave to them..............I'm not saying all coppers back the were tarred with the same brush, but until you've lived it, you wouldn't believe it..............they provoked...............whether on orders (as has been suggested) I wouldn't know, but it happened......frequently................"Commie B@stard"..............."Lazy B@stard"............."Keep it up son, I'm getting heaps of overtime out of this" were constant taunts. I stood on picket lines with Des Warren(RIP) and Ricky Thomlinson prior to Thatcher...............which set the scene for my "militancy"..................a tory gov't that manipulated the law to convict trade unionists for "conspiracy" (no determinable sentence, or sentence 'em as you will, as opposed to charging them with affray).................something gleaned from US law which obviously impressed Thatcher, considering her "relationship" with Reagan later. That fight was against "the lump"........something which continued well into Thatchers "reign". Why didn't she pursue the tax dodgers? Why? Because the workers on the lump were no different than those Polish workers some complain about today............they benefited the "employer class". So?.................she created this division...................it was Ok "bashing the unions" as lesser powerful unions thought that certain unions were taking too big a slice of the cake and old Mrs Fridge was sick to death of her heating going out...........how do we "re-unite the nation"?...................I know?................We'll stir 'em up with that old "Rule Brittania" stuff. As an ex-serviceman, I am loathe to debate any isue regarding the "legality" or "necessity" of a war. It seems to me that to do so................to question either, is likely to infer that someone's loved ones died in vain. My wife is also ex-service and as an EM in the Fleet Air Arm, worked on the Sea Kings at that time................she also, will never debate the Falklands War. I mention it only in this context.................it united GB..................was that an accident, manufactured, or just pure luck for Thatcher, at a time when her popularity was waining? Lots more I could say, but I won't. Do I admire her?.....................in a way, yes....................she stood up for the courage of her convictions and stuck her head above the parapet..................do I agree with those convictions?..............no............she could have curbed the miners and the dockers without destroying the fabric of working class solidarity..............but hey? perhaps that's what she intended to do anyway? Not curb the power of the unions "holding the country to ransom", but to destroy the "working class" aspirations/model per se?..................I mean?................Who is worse than a non-smoker?...................A ex smoker?..................Perhaps she just had to rise above her humble beginnings in order to convince herself that it wasn't where she came from?.................remember the, "We have a grand-daughter"?................that royal "we"? She probably hated her humble beginnings that much that she had to aspire to being royalty? FWIW.................Thatcher.................Cromwell..................Henry 8th....................I couldn't rejoice about their death...................death always leaves someone saddened, be it son/daughter/mother/father...............I wish that on no-one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyman Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 I wasn't going to get involved in this as she was divisive enough in her lifetime, without her creating division with her death.........................but......................I lived through that era as a full time union officer in the TGWU..............so.................here goes...........the "truth" from where I stood. How did she get so many terms in office wihen (it appeared) that she was despised by so many....................I know of many TGWU union members who voted for her at a time when the "working man" should have stood together. Why? Who was the "working man"? The one with the loudest voice? The dockers and the miners certainly were "loud", but did they ever fight for the working man as a whole? they pursued their own parochial claims whilst robbing the "purse" of what could have gone to much lower paid workers. Whilst they were pursuing claims of 30% and getting support from other unions, the TGWU pursuing claims of 4% got practically no help from them whatsoever........................it was all about "smash the tories" whilst the tories were all about "smash the miners and dockers". I was a "green card" holder.................a member of the communist party whilst holding a labour party card.................speaks volumes about those times eh?..................militant as buggery, but....................I saw the conflict for what it was and my "misguided" politics for what they were.....................a struggle for class superiority and nothing at all to do with worker's rights. This will be a ramble.....................no doubt Thatcher.....................far from restoring Britain to it's "greatness" did the almost impossible.....................she destroyed the "spirit of the blitz" where the upper class led, and the "working classes" trusted them to lead (despite their envy of the upper class positions)............where class counted for nought and "we're all in this together"...........Not in some ways, a bad thing, as perhaps it taught (in some way) the working class to aspire to greater heights, but she somehow managed it................created a division, never before seen since the tolpuddle martyrs. "Working class solidarity"? What a load of bollox! Are coppers not working class? I've stood on picket lines and faced up to riot shields wher a copper has poked his head round his shiled and said' " go for it my son. I'll be sat one my arse drawing invalidity benefit after this riot, long after your dole runs out." TBH, and I don't care a jot what anyone else thinks, those cops just loved the overtime and what Thatcher gave to them..............I'm not saying all coppers back the were tarred with the same brush, but until you've lived it, you wouldn't believe it..............they provoked...............whether on orders (as has been suggested) I wouldn't know, but it happened......frequently................"Commie B@stard"..............."Lazy B@stard"............."Keep it up son, I'm getting heaps of overtime out of this" were constant taunts. I stood on picket lines with Des Warren(RIP) and Ricky Thomlinson prior to Thatcher...............which set the scene for my "militancy"..................a tory gov't that manipulated the law to convict trade unionists for "conspiracy" (no determinable sentence, or sentence 'em as you will, as opposed to charging them with affray).................something gleaned from US law which obviously impressed Thatcher, considering her "relationship" with Reagan later. That fight was against "the lump"........something which continued well into Thatchers "reign". Why didn't she pursue the tax dodgers? Why? Because the workers on the lump were no different than those Polish workers some complain about today............they benefited the "employer class". So?.................she created this division...................it was Ok "bashing the unions" as lesser powerful unions thought that certain unions were taking too big a slice of the cake and old Mrs Fridge was sick to death of her heating going out...........how do we "re-unite the nation"?...................I know?................We'll stir 'em up with that old "Rule Brittania" stuff. As an ex-serviceman, I am loathe to debate any isue regarding the "legality" or "necessity" of a war. It seems to me that to do so................to question either, is likely to infer that someone's loved ones died in vain. My wife is also ex-service and as an EM in the Fleet Air Arm, worked on the Sea Kings at that time................she also, will never debate the Falklands War. I mention it only in this context.................it united GB..................was that an accident, manufactured, or just pure luck for Thatcher, at a time when her popularity was waining? Lots more I could say, but I won't. Do I admire her?.....................in a way, yes....................she stood up for the courage of her convictions and stuck her head above the parapet..................do I agree with those convictions?..............no............she could have curbed the miners and the dockers without destroying the fabric of working class solidarity..............but hey? perhaps that's what she intended to do anyway? Not curb the power of the unions "holding the country to ransom", but to destroy the "working class" aspirations/model per se?..................I mean?................Who is worse than a non-smoker?...................A ex smoker?..................Perhaps she just had to rise above her humble beginnings in order to convince herself that it wasn't where she came from?.................remember the, "We have a grand-daughter"?................that royal "we"? She probably hated her humble beginnings that much that she had to aspire to being royalty? FWIW.................Thatcher.................Cromwell..................Henry 8th....................I couldn't rejoice about their death...................death always leaves someone saddened, be it son/daughter/mother/father...............I wish that on no-one GOOD ON YA JOHN..................well done for speaking out and being honest ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 She was on quite goods terms with Hussain - you be the judge http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-schwarz/margaret-thatcher-iraq_b_3037423.html and Blair and Bush - tarred with the same brush So are you saying Thatcher is no better than Bin Laden or Hussein? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Oh - forgot Pinochet - silly me http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/304516.stm So are you saying Thatcher is no better than Bin Laden or Hussein? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 One mans terrorists is another mans freedom fighter. True just as a "collaborator" is just someone who chose the wrong side. But it is also a recipe for anarchy. Got a legitimate reason for protest? Plant a bomb and claim it is a "political " crime and u should be treated differently to someone who commits the same crime simply to extort or steal money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andy Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Oh - forgot Pinochet - silly me http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/304516.stm If you are really saying these two pieces of "journalism" means Thatcher is in the same league as Bin Laden or Hussein maybe you should lay off the hard stuff :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 I've been a little disgusted at the pictures of the 'celebrations' that i've seen this morning on the news, irrespective of peoples views about her, surely there are expected standards of behaviour in society, I don't believe anti-social behaviours can be condoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andy Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 I've been a little disgusted at the pictures of the 'celebrations' that i've seen this morning on the news, irrespective of peoples views about her, surely there are expected standards of behaviour in society, I don't believe anti-social behaviours can be condoned. Nope, it doesn't seem like there are any expected standards of behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyb Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 She was on quite goods terms with Hussain - you be the judge http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-schwarz/margaret-thatcher-iraq_b_3037423.html and Blair and Bush - tarred with the same brush A very vague piece of 'journalism' . Blaming the second Iraq war on thatchers success in the Falklands ? A bit feeble . Selling weapons , vague again on the details about how much non lethal means . More of an agenda blog . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 I've been a little disgusted at the pictures of the 'celebrations' that i've seen this morning on the news, irrespective of peoples views about her, surely there are expected standards of behaviour in society, I don't believe anti-social behaviours can be condoned. The media ave obviously picked out the one or two over the top celebrations, the vast majority of the celebrations were low key amongst friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.