Thatcher Dead

[Guest guest74886]

That was the initial idea .... If what I was taught at uni is correct it was set up after the war to get people back on their feet, which was a good idea, but to spend a life on benefits is awful, and shows a terrible disrespect to each and every tax payer, in particular those on low wages, who are struggling as it is.

it is something IMO that no government is prepared to tackle whole heartedly I.e., say 5 years on benefits and that's your lot .... they just chip away slowly and in a lot of ways affect the worthy, not the source of the problem, it could be that they are terrified of rioting.

 

sadly many have chosen it over a career .... and then go crazy when the pot runs dry and the country can no longer afford high rents, free dental, council tax, prescriptions, furniture, the list is endless ...

 

i am not adverse to worthy people claiming state benefits, such as disabled people, those affected by new labours crass spending, I.e., people who have lost everything, but some people just choose a life if benefits because they can ... it's wrong and makes the working man / woman very bitter.

 

The deserving poor are always present and always smell better than the undeserving, which system would you like to revert to 'The Workhouse' or 'Parish Relief','The Elizabethan Poor Laws', or we could try a touch of that old favourite 'Transportation', the poor have always been seen as a problem ever since poverty was associated with the lower orders who had to be punished for being poor.

[flag of convenience]

Even if, and that's a big if, the qoute is correct. The principle is correct. Benefits can not, must not and should not give a lifestyle. They are there for one reason. To provide a stop gap. The reason that areas such as disability benefits for the true disabled are not what they should be, is because of dicks like these and we all know there are thousands of them. Stealing money from the disabled.

 

Disability have also been used to off load the unemployed onto disability in order to keep the figure down.

[flag of convenience]

I think it has now all been said.

 

I have posted a range of FACTS. not some thing the left like very much, but they they are. I have been away for a few days so not seen what has been posted, but having got home and reviewed, all we see from the left are some rants with no evidence to back up their claims. Goodbye left. You lost.

 

 

And the same old rants from the right. Question Is Britain beter off today after so many decades of Thatcher induced policies? Right, as ever full of their own importance and sod everyone else look,just how successful I am in terms of lotsa money.

[Sydney]

very little chatter about perhaps mrs thatchers two greatest achievements, one was a labour politician called tony blair, without whom labour would still be the unwashed, uncouth, unelectable rabble they were under callaghan, foot, and kinnock.

The second is her greatest achievement, which is that she backed the leader of the free world, ronald regan, in his fight to destroy communism, and the iron curtain.

The labour party favoured "one sided nuclear disarmament," and many socialists secretly hoped that the uk would leave the eu and join the warsaw pact. (at the 1983 general election labours policy was to leave the eu and abandon credible defence). Many younger people will be unaware of this, but the truth is that the soviet union had used their overwhelming military power to invade hungary, czechoslovakia, and poland, and use their enormous red army to ruthlessly suppress the people in those countries. If you tried to escape, you would be shot. They built a wall in berlin to keep their citizens in, and stop them leaving to join their families and friends in the west. If they didn't like your political views, then their secret service would send you to their prison camps in siberia or somewhere, and you could forget any trial, or using the human rights act.

I'll just say that again, the socialists built a wall in berlin to stop the east germans trying to leave the country, if they tried to run for it, they would be shot dead. Several east germans lost their lives, not from illness, accidents and stuff, but because the socialist dictators ordered them to be shot dead. Bang, bang, you're toast comrade.

If there were elections, there was only one party you could vote for. There was no free press. Television was heavily censured, and there was no trade unions that we would recognise, indeed, when the poles tried to form one, (solidarity), the russians sent in the tanks!

Against this, mrs thatchers governments made sure britain retained nuclear weapons, and the russians knew she would use them, so they never invaded western europe. Eventually, because russia was a socialist country, (it's full name was the ussr...union of soviet socialist republics), because it was a socialist country, eventually it could not afford to compete with the capitalist countries of the uk and the usa, and it collapsed. The berlin wall came down. Germany was reunited, east germany became free, so did poland, rumania, bulgaria, czechoslovakia, hungary, latvia, yugoslavia, albania, lithuania, and estonia.

As a direct result of mrs thatchers governments support for the usa then, today, hundreds of millions of people are free in those former socialist states. Hundreds of millions of people, free to live where they choose, buy a house, even come to the uk to live. Maybe that does cause a bit of friction, the idle claim they aren't working because "the poles / kosovans / rumanians, bulgarians, have taken "their jobs," (on the dole for 30 years i don't think so, but hey, blame your idleness on some poor immigrants who have come to the uk for a better life, and to work in the jobs our own lazy bas****s feel are beneath them). You know, as a civilised society we will get over that.

And it is this that the socialists hate her for. Don't be fooled by them, after all, even with an enormous majority new labour never thought for one second to reverse her policies, no repeal of laws that freed ordinary workers from the tyranny of the trade unions closed shop, no return to 85% income tax, no leaving the eu, no renationalisation, not even any "one sided disarmament. No, the socialists hate her because she believed in the one principle that divides conservatives from socialists, conservatives believe people should be free, because conservatives believe you know what is best for you, not the state, and you can look at any policy, and that is where the divide is.

Those who now gloat over the passing of an 87 year old woman they could never hope to defeat in life would do well to consider just how motivational their comments will be to conservatives across the country as they prepare to fight the next election, and also, they serve to remind the british people that just because these socialists may have had a wash, a shave, bought a nice suit, and grown up a bit, sadly some of them still seem to be the same red fascist scum that they were in the 1980s, and we can never, ever trust them with the government of a civilised democracy.

utter p1sh....!!!!

[The Fisheys]

utter p1sh....!!!!

 

Glad you liked it so much!

[Perthbum]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18885[/ATTACH]

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/opinion-sharply-divide-margaret-thatcher

Yep, from the bottom up they see her as a failure, it is only the council hose sales that pushed it higher.

[Love Shoes]

The deserving poor are always present and always smell better than the undeserving, which system would you like to revert to 'The Workhouse' or 'Parish Relief','The Elizabethan Poor Laws', or we could try a touch of that old favourite 'Transportation', the poor have always been seen as a problem ever since poverty was associated with the lower orders who had to be punished for being poor.

 

I don't think I have said anywhere that I felt that the poor should be sent to the work house, or transported, quite the reverse, the deserving poor ... deserve help it is the lazy people who should be addressed .... a lifetime on state benefits is no laughing matter and believe me in my previous job I have seen third generation benefit claimants with absolutely no intention of working .... and in the same job I have witnessed people who have worked hard all their life and were still struggling ....

[flybyknight]

jeysus, is this thread still going! 36 pages... not bad!

 

so what do we know?

 

i think the grunt of it is that she led a government that wasnt afraid to make the hard decisions.

sometimes they were right sometimes wrong, but always willing to do something.

for me i admire that more than the vote chasing snakes we have seen in government since.

 

on top of all that she may also have a number one single! how many past PM's can claim that!

[Perthbum]

jeysus, is this thread still going! 36 pages... not bad!

 

so what do we know?

 

i think the grunt of it is that she led a government that wasnt afraid to make the hard decisions.

sometimes they were right sometimes wrong, but always willing to do something.

for me i admire that more than the vote chasing snakes we have seen in government since.

 

on top of all that she may also have a number one single! how many past PM's can claim that!

Yep I hope it gets to no1 and stays in the charts for ages.

[Sydney]

Amazing the divided opinion on Thatcher, because she directly affected so many people. Just read in the press the funeral won't be screened in Edinburgh at Festival Square as they do with most national events because of the threat of protesters. Some of the most mild mannered people are being quite vocal about her.

[StevieF8]

Yep, from the bottom up they see her as a failure, it is only the council hose sales that pushed it higher.

 

 

50% thought she was good for the country and only 34% saying she wasn't.....interesting stats!

[Perthbum]

50% thought she was good for the country and only 34% saying she wasn't.....interesting stats!

Who was asked...how many were asked, was it working people, was it welsh mining villages, was it English mining villages.....I take this with a very big pinch of salt.

[Perthbum]

 

50% thought she was good for the country and only 34% saying she wasn't.....interesting stats!

It is true that four months before the invasion of the Falklands, Mrs. Thatcher was the least popular prime minister in polling history and that after the invasion her approval ratings rose from 41% in April and to 56% in May. In June after British troops had taken back the islands Mrs. Thatcher reached a healthy 59% and while her ratings did slip back a little after then, the Conservatives still won a landslide victory in 1983.http://www.ipsos-mori.com/newsevents/ca/273/Political-Commentary-The-Falklands-Factor-Revisited.aspx

[StevieF8]

Who was asked...how many were asked, was it working people, was it welsh mining villages, was it English mining villages.....I take this with a very big pinch of salt.

 

ICM Research interviewed a random sample of 965 adults aged 18+

 

 

As usual, No doubt you'll know better...

[Jackinabox]

I am quite able to converse and accept other people's opinions, even change my point of view if a point can be made / proven well enough. Some who have posted just seem to see things as black / white ( I won't use red / blue as I am not just talking politically) and give the impression that whatever was said / proven there would be no chance in hell they could see anything other than their original opinion being correct. And this being the case it would be pointless to continue this and let you know you must be right. Although you obviously already know this anyway.

 

Thats the way I see it too. Its often a third party point of view though. They know someone who knows someone affected..........not really affected themselves. Simply riding the wave of angst. Think they are doing a service by fighting someone else's corner when in fact they don't want their corner fought. I don't have a firm view either way as I see both perspectives on the Maggie issue. I lived in one of the so called worst affected areas in the 80's. Yet very few people are discussing this in the manner that it is being reported and certainly not in the manner that some posters on here are, who live not too far away. I will however tend to comment to those who seem to think they have a monopoly on the answers. Some point may indeed be correct but certain posters take it upon themselves to become self righteous by to over stating it just because you fail to write that you agree with them. Not here to massage their ego's or victim card.

[Perthbum]

ICM Research interviewed a random sample of 965 adults aged 18+

 

 

As usual, No doubt you'll know better...

See my other THREAD...before the Falklands she was rated the worst ever MP

A number of events, commemorations and television programmes have recently marked the twenty-fifth anniversary of the Argentine invasion of the Falklands islands. Received wisdom seems to have it that the "Falklands Factor" was the political making of Margaret Thatcher, but data from the Ipsos MORI Public Affairs Archive says something quite different.

 

 

It is true that four months before the invasion of the Falklands, Mrs. Thatcher was the least popular prime minister in polling history and that after the invasion her approval ratings rose from 41% in April and to 56% in May. In June after British troops had taken back the islands Mrs. Thatcher reached a healthy 59% and while her ratings did slip back a little after then, the Conservatives still won a landslide victory in 1983.

[StevieF8]

See my other THREAD...before the Falklands she was rated the worst ever MP

A number of events, commemorations and television programmes have recently marked the twenty-fifth anniversary of the Argentine invasion of the Falklands islands. Received wisdom seems to have it that the "Falklands Factor" was the political making of Margaret Thatcher, but data from the Ipsos MORI Public Affairs Archive says something quite different.

 

 

It is true that four months before the invasion of the Falklands, Mrs. Thatcher was the least popular prime minister in polling history and that after the invasion her approval ratings rose from 41% in April and to 56% in May. In June after British troops had taken back the islands Mrs. Thatcher reached a healthy 59% and while her ratings did slip back a little after then, the Conservatives still won a landslide victory in 1983.

 

 

I've seen it, you posted the same thing in here as you have in there....do you really need to start a new thread every 5 minutes.....

 

You should have a limit set on the number of threads you can start in a day.

 

 

Anyway in that IPSOS MORI Poll: Who was asked...how many were asked, was it working people, was it welsh mining villages, was it English mining villages.....

[Perthbum]

I've seen it, you posted the same thing in here as you have in there....do you really need to start a new thread every 5 minutes.....

 

You should have a limit set on the number of threads you can start in a day.

 

 

Anyway in that IPSOS MORI Poll: Who was asked...how many were asked, was it working people, was it welsh mining villages, was it English mining villages.....

No it was a random poll like the one you posted...do my threads upset you....:tongue:......

 

 

 

 

 

hope so.

pp.s...how come you are on here 24/7

Edited April 11, 2013 by Perthbum

[StevieF8]

No it was a random poll like the one you posted...do my threads upset you....:tongue:......

 

 

 

 

 

hope so.

pp.s...how come you are on here 24/7

 

 

There is no need to have 20 threads on the same subject all running at the same time or starting a new one every time you find an article about how bad Thatcher was....

 

 

Post a link that shows me on here 24/7...been asking for it for a week now...but it isnt going to happen

[flag of convenience]

ICM Research interviewed a random sample of 965 adults aged 18+

 

 

As usual, No doubt you'll know better...

 

Well a survey conducted on such a wide spread of the UK population must surely end all arguements. 965 people in UK must surely speak for the other 60 million.

 

Afraid it shows nothing. Only fact being Thatcher was highly devisive.

[StevieF8]

Well a survey conducted on such a wide spread of the UK population must surely end all arguements. 965 people in UK must surely speak for the other 60 million.

 

Afraid it shows nothing. Only fact being Thatcher was highly devisive.

 

 

Did I say it showed anything?

 

I said they were interesting stats.

 

 

They probably show as much as the stats in the IPSOS MORI poll....

 

it's called Sampling and is done to estimate the response across the UK or do you expect them to contact 60m people and ask them all one-by-one

[flag of convenience]

Did I say it showed anything?

 

I said they were interesting stats.

 

 

They probably show as much as the stats in the IPSOS MORI poll....

 

it's called Sampling and is done to estimate the response across the UK or do you expect them to contact 60m people and ask them all one-by-one

 

The number sampled is too small to have any real signifigance.

[StevieF8]

The number sampled is too small to have any real signifigance.

 

 

Unless you have run these statistics through a Chi-squared test to determine the significance of them,

then you can't possibly comment on whether the sample size is too small or not to draw any real conclusions from.

[Sydney]

..

Edited April 11, 2013 by Sydney

[MARYROSE02]

If the mines were all profitable and productive, why hasnt someone opened them up again?