Thatcher Dead

[flag of convenience]

The strike was called after it was leaked that the government was going to withdraw subsidies to some mines. The mines in question were producing next to nothing - largely due to petty industrial actions but were costing the tax payer massive amounts of cash.

 

No, Scargill did not ballot the minors. Nor were they told the truth about the situation.

 

There were actually more miners that refused the strike than many people think. However, it was hard as the society in most of these communities was one of following the union regardless. Anyone that didn't was is osterzised.

 

Police were used to protect miners that wanted to work, but there was no legal obligation for strikes to be balloted, so the strike wasn't illegal.

 

No, striking is not a crime, nor should it ever be.

 

He was the worst piece of cake in the history of UK politics. Nearly all of the mines could be operating now if it wasn't for him.

 

The general consensus was Scargill was something of an egomanic with a definate political agenda ahead of the welfare of his union members.

That does not excuse of course the extreme methods used by the police nor the politicisation of the police force.

 

Forces from over the country were called in as to enable the local police not to be osterzised within the local community.

 

In a way it was Maggie's Falklands fought on home turf.Rather popular with some perhaps not fully understanding the implications.

[bunbury61]

In essence yes. Britain is better off. One of the problems the UK has always had is the tall poppy syndrome. It likes to put down anyone that is successful. When a person starts a bushiness, does well, is successful, makes a lot of money. That person needs to be held up as a pilot. Something to aim for. When a person, gets an education that allows them to have a successful and yes, well off life, that person needs to be held up as a pilot. Instead, the left persistently want to bring people down to the lowest denominator. The right want to bring people up to the highest.

 

I have done a lot of voluntary work with kids that have been expelled from school. Most look up to people they know that live on their estate, claim benefits and do smallmscale dealing and other crimes. I say to them that no. Get an education. That porche is in reach, that big house that you can only think of breaking into can actually be yours. That to me is the way foreword. Yes, I have used my own background. I was expelled at 14. Had my first kid at 15. Homeless at 17 and living in the shop door way of BHS in Middlesbrough. Discovered education at 21. And now have a pretty nice lifestyle. Have I been greedy? Maybe, I am driven. I have demanded better bucks at work. I have worked hard for what I have. I will in two years become GM of of my first mine. I should be able to retire at 50-55. My wife, doesnt want for anything. We both give back to the community both as volunteers and direct cash.

 

But according to the left this is all wrong.

 

I don't want the poor to be well looked after. I don't want poor.

 

Great post VS ......from my perspective , i came back to the U.K with 2 grand , and a 2 yr old .....we left everything in Oz ...........it dawned on me that NO ONE IS GOING TO GIVE YOU F ....ALL .....it was a rude awakening .

So when the penny drops , you do it for yourself .

I often hear people say there are no jobs in the U.K .....or they are struggling to find one in Oz ......my answer now would be ......what do you want a job for ? .......start your own business ......create your own job ......get organised .....start small ....keep the outgoings to an absolute minimum ....and GO FOR IT !

 

PS .....i aint going to retire at 65 ......keep healthy ......keep working

[VERYSTORMY]

You are now not only grasping at straws, but ignoring and misrepresenting facts. The reason the police were mobilized from other areas is that pretty much none of these towns had more than a tiny police force. And you know that, so why fib. You also know that most of the mines had people that wanted to work and didn't believe in the strike. These people were given death threats. They had a right to work, regardless of what you and your comrades may think. They were largely prevented. Which is sad as if you research, you will find most were simply wanting to keep the mine viable in the future by keeping pumps running. Personally, I would bill the strikers that prevented the so called scabs from going in for the full cost of the mine. Yes, the full cost. Regardless of what that means. It's about time some of these people take responsibility for their actions. Something which the left hates the idea of. People being responsible for themselves and their actions.

 

Please do some research rather than spout a rhetoric that has been proved consistently to be unworkable (socialism).

 

The general consensus was Scargill was something of an egomanic with a definate political agenda ahead of the welfare of his union members.

That does not excuse of course the extreme methods used by the police nor the politicisation of the police force.

 

Forces from over the country were called in as to enable the local police not to be osterzised within the local community.

 

In a way it was Maggie's Falklands fought on home turf.Rather popular with some perhaps not fully understanding the implications.

[newjez]

Are you seriously suggesting that only the miners were at fault in this dispute? That if they had let the govt have their way, everything would have been hunky dory? You have a lot more faith in governments than I do.

 

You are now not only grasping at straws, but ignoring and misrepresenting facts. The reason the police were mobilized from other areas is that pretty much none of these towns had more than a tiny police force. And you know that, so why fib. You also know that most of the mines had people that wanted to work and didn't believe in the strike. These people were given death threats. They had a right to work, regardless of what you and your comrades may think. They were largely prevented. Which is sad as if you research, you will find most were simply wanting to keep the mine viable in the future by keeping pumps running. Personally, I would bill the strikers that prevented the so called scabs from going in for the full cost of the mine. Yes, the full cost. Regardless of what that means. It's about time some of these people take responsibility for their actions. Something which the left hates the idea of. People being responsible for themselves and their actions.

 

Please do some research rather than spout a rhetoric that has been proved consistently to be unworkable (socialism).

[littlefoot]

You are now not only grasping at straws, but ignoring and misrepresenting facts.

 

Pot, kettle, black, verystormy. Your version of history is entirely biased and unrepresentative of the whole situation.

 

Thatcher was already on record as wanting the mines closed, back in 1981. She was being politically devious by removing subsidies and the result was a perfectly legal and legitimate strike. It was as a direct result of her policies, tactics and ambition that the mining industry (along with many others) was destroyed. You can harp on about what you think of 'the left' until the cows come home, but the reality is that Thatcher and the vegetables wanted rid of the manufacturing industries and the unions and set out to destroy them. The result was the economic destruction of entire towns, the loss of livelihoods and income for millions and all the while the better off were being encouraged not to give a damn and simply pursue their own wealth. She was a disgrace and we're better off without her.

[VERYSTORMY]

Are you seriously suggesting that only the miners were at fault in this dispute? That if they had let the govt have their way, everything would have been hunky dory? You have a lot more faith in governments than I do.

 

Al, of the evidenc says that most of the mines could be operating today. Once a mine floods - particularly things such as coal mines, which have significant geotechnical issues at the best of times, it is usually end of the day. It is known that only a few mines would have had to close because of withdrawal of subsidy. Most, I guess would have been sold off to one of the international mining houses. Probably Rio or Anglo. But, once it is flooded, the cost of reopening is massive. If possible at all. So, no one would be interested in buying. All miners working underground know this. It's one of the earliest things you grasp - most guys are rightly nervous of drowning and most have seen minor floods that close that part of a mine. So yes, knowingly letting the mines flood, is their fault.

[newjez]

Do you have a link to this? I did see a reference to a threat to withdraw safety work on a mine in Wales when a worker returned to work. This made him re join the strike. But I can't see any evidence of it actually happening. This would have been suicide, as it would have closed their pits permanently as you have said. All evidence I have seen was that safety work was aloud to continue.

 

Al, of the evidenc says that most of the mines could be operating today. Once a mine floods - particularly things such as coal mines, which have significant geotechnical issues at the best of times, it is usually end of the day. It is known that only a few mines would have had to close because of withdrawal of subsidy. Most, I guess would have been sold off to one of the international mining houses. Probably Rio or Anglo. But, once it is flooded, the cost of reopening is massive. If possible at all. So, no one would be interested in buying. All miners working underground know this. It's one of the earliest things you grasp - most guys are rightly nervous of drowning and most have seen minor floods that close that part of a mine. So yes, knowingly letting the mines flood, is their fault.

[VERYSTORMY]

Do you have a link to this? I did see a reference to a threat to withdraw safety work on a mine in Wales when a worker returned to work. This made him re join the strike. But I can't see any evidence of it actually happening. This would have been suicide, as it would have closed their pits permanently as you have said. All evidence I have seen was that safety work was aloud to continue.

 

Not on the top of my head - it is almost bedtime here. But will post some tomorrow. As you may know I work in mining, I have visited a number of closed coal mines and spoke to a number of ex mine managers, but as a training exercise and as part of a corporate representation to see what mining might be available in the UK. I have met many a mine manager - one or two who are still in the game working in Oz. It was very sad to see them pretty much in tears describing how they couldn't keep pumps going, knowing that it was the end of a mine.

 

Safety was in theory allowed to continue, but, even in Oz, flooding is only regarded as a safety issue if it is an immediate threat. Otherwise, like now it is an economic / business problem. I still find it a funny thing, as the business issue with a flooded mine is you can't operate it safely. I have been in a an underground mine that flooded - while I was underground. Not nice. I was a member of the management team and the moment it was clear everyone was out, the issue was now purely a business case.

 

You need a crew of about 100 men on an average coal mine in the UK to man the pumps. They simply weren't allowed in. I don't think the miners were necessarily pre meditated in this. I think they were caught up in what was going on. That, and there was simply no way of an individual saying "hey, we need to get down there". But, they certainly knew the issue and turned a blind eye. The NUM were very deliberate though. They must have known the issue

[flag of convenience]

Do you have a link to this? I did see a reference to a threat to withdraw safety work on a mine in Wales when a worker returned to work. This made him re join the strike. But I can't see any evidence of it actually happening. This would have been suicide, as it would have closed their pits permanently as you have said. All evidence I have seen was that safety work was aloud to continue.

 

There was something about flooding in some mines from memory. But regardless the motavations were political and vicious. Rather fits with the right's tactics. Use the power of the law and what ever force necessary until the pips squeak.

The mention of shooting protesters who may get out of hand further establishes thier credentials as the snarling right. Scared of freedom in reality but even more scared of the masses,whom they fear will break down their doors and ravish them. Hence they must be kept on a leash.

[flag of convenience]

You are now not only grasping at straws, but ignoring and misrepresenting facts. The reason the police were mobilized from other areas is that pretty much none of these towns had more than a tiny police force. And you know that, so why fib. You also know that most of the mines had people that wanted to work and didn't believe in the strike. These people were given death threats. They had a right to work, regardless of what you and your comrades may think. They were largely prevented. Which is sad as if you research, you will find most were simply wanting to keep the mine viable in the future by keeping pumps running. Personally, I would bill the strikers that prevented the so called scabs from going in for the full cost of the mine. Yes, the full cost. Regardless of what that means. It's about time some of these people take responsibility for their actions. Something which the left hates the idea of. People being responsible for themselves and their actions.

 

Please do some research rather than spout a rhetoric that has been proved consistently to be unworkable (socialism).

 

I know the facts and those being local police from within the county were where detailed to other regions. Hence forces from Sussex or Dorset may find themselves on front line duty in Northants or whereever.Lots of cultural misunderstandings resulted ...

 

I would say social democracy has worked very well. Please do some research. Look into how Germany, Finland,Denmark, Norway worked. Britain a little shabby in comparison?

 

I'll leave the rightious right the privilage of personal responsibilty with their original solution of thinking shooting malcontents on the streets who may chose to protest as a sound idea.

[Guest51810]

http://full.orangeworld.co.uk/article/officer_resigns_over_anti_thatcher_tweets?sid=c5cfd5a2a49c

[Mongrel]

Not on the top of my head - it is almost bedtime here. But will post some tomorrow. As you may know I work in mining, I have visited a number of closed coal mines and spoke to a number of ex mine managers, but as a training exercise and as part of a corporate representation to see what mining might be available in the UK. I have met many a mine manager - one or two who are still in the game working in Oz. It was very sad to see them pretty much in tears describing how they couldn't keep pumps going, knowing that it was the end of a mine.

 

Safety was in theory allowed to continue, but, even in Oz, flooding is only regarded as a safety issue if it is an immediate threat. Otherwise, like now it is an economic / business problem. I still find it a funny thing, as the business issue with a flooded mine is you can't operate it safely. I have been in a an underground mine that flooded - while I was underground. Not nice. I was a member of the management team and the moment it was clear everyone was out, the issue was now purely a business case.

 

You need a crew of about 100 men on an average coal mine in the UK to man the pumps. They simply weren't allowed in. I don't think the miners were necessarily pre meditated in this. I think they were caught up in what was going on. That, and there was simply no way of an individual saying "hey, we need to get down there". But, they certainly knew the issue and turned a blind eye. The NUM were very deliberate though. They must have known the issue

 

no empirical content , , fact I was on strike in the steel strike of 1980 , I saw the crap of thatchers regime , car body plant at west brom , Wednesday nite . Local bobbies loved it , money for Nowt, stood with us 10 blokes for shifts. Overtime , they were coining it in ,we were fine with them , this night no bobbies there , transit van rocks up , 10 goons in cop uniforms no numbers , grabs an old bloke Kevin , in the van , I can't explain the screams I heard , I asked another goon , last thing I can remember apart from a lumpy head , Kevin was professionally beaten as the doc said , hospitalised for 4 weeks , any recompense - nob all , these goons were Sas or paras , I saw I e of the locals we had a crack with and the pc was really pissed a out it , he said it was nothing to do with the police , I believe him

Edited April 12, 2013 by calNgary
removed personal comments

[littlefoot]

Do you want to try that again in English?

[Johndoe]

no empirical content , , fact I was on strike in the steel strike of 1980 , I saw the crap of thatchers regime , car body plant at west brom , Wednesday nite . Local bobbies loved it , money for Nowt, stood with us 10 blokes for shifts. Overtime , they were coining it in ,we were fine with them , this night no bobbies there , transit van rocks up , 10 goons in cop uniforms no numbers , grabs an old bloke Kevin , in the van , I can't explain the s reams I heard , I asked another goon , last thing I can remember apart from a lumpy head , Kevin was professionally beaten as the doc said , hospitalised for 4 weeks , any recompense nob all , these goons were Sas or paras , I saw I e of the locals we had a crack with and the pc was really pissed a out it , he said it was nothing to do with the police , I believe him

 

Take it as true. Witnessed it first hand. The police violence was all too real. It certainly inflamed the situation.

 

If Margaret Thatcher did anything, albeit by accident, it was to focus the need on reformation of the Police.

 

If there's anyone there has a moment to spare

And can give undivided attention

I'd be grateful if you'd give a minute a two

And consider some points I would mention

There are slanderous tongues always ready to wrong

And murder the fine reputation

Of the lads with big feet who by pounding the beat

Are protecting the peace of the nation

 

There are shortsighted folks who insist that these blokes

Are just uniformed masters of thuggery

There can be no dispute if they didn't put the boot in

The country would all go to buggery

So try and keep calm when they're twisting your arm

Or planting a fist in your gob

When they're giving you hell in a cold prison cell

They're only just doing their job

 

When Hitler and Co. were running the show

Assisted by Germany's coppers

If a nose was too big or a mind was too active

Its owner was sure of the chopper

Socialists, Communists, Jews and trades unionists

Landed up dead or in quod

And the police were in there of course doing their share

But they were just doing their job

 

Il Duce the bully and Franco his cully

Both loaded their countries with chains

And in the front ranks of these two mountebanks

Were the police of both Italy and Spain

In South Africa, El Salvador, Guatemala

Where they call working people 'the mob'

The screams and the yells from the punishment cells

Show the police are just doing their job

 

If you're black or just brown, if you're jobless and down

If you speak for a world which is saner

If you stand up and fight for what's yours by right

If you're an anti-nuclear campaigner

Remember the chap in the comical hat

Is one of humanity's crosses

Wherever there's trouble, whatever the struggle

He'll be on the side of the bosses

 

Courtesy of Ewan McColl: Only doing their job

Edited April 12, 2013 by calNgary
edited quote

[flag of convenience]

no empirical content , , fact I was on strike in the steel strike of 1980 , I saw the crap of thatchers regime , car body plant at west brom , Wednesday nite . Local bobbies loved it , money for Nowt, stood with us 10 blokes for shifts. Overtime , they were coining it in ,we were fine with them , this night no bobbies there , transit van rocks up , 10 goons in cop uniforms no numbers , grabs an old bloke Kevin , in the van , I can't explain the screams I heard , I asked another goon , last thing I can remember apart from a lumpy head , Kevin was professionally beaten as the doc said , hospitalised for 4 weeks , any recompense - nob all , these goons were Sas or paras , I saw I e of the locals we had a crack with and the pc was really pissed a out it , he said it was nothing to do with the police , I believe him

 

I have heard this mentioned before that troops were used in such circumstances. This further in my mind confirms the presence of troops at Thatchers funeral is wrong. But anyhow the funeral has been allowed to become so politically charged by the Tory blue rince brigade, staging a funeral with such pomp for such a divided, public elected politician,not a member of royalty, that all bets are off a quiet and dignified affair.

[Guest Andy]

I have heard this mentioned before that troops were used in such circumstances. This further in my mind confirms the presence of troops at Thatchers funeral is wrong. But anyhow the funeral has been allowed to become so politically charged by the Tory blue rince brigade, staging a funeral with such pomp for such a divided, public elected politician,not a member of royalty, that all bets are off a quiet and dignified affair.

 

Yep, i kind of guessed it would be the tories fault when all of the scum come out of the woodwork for a good old fashioned riot, lets put the blame on them before all the shops and cars are burnt out.

[mickyb]

Says a lot that even Martin mcguiness said " we must not allow her death to poison out minds , no street parties "

wise words even from him. Seem a lot on here , as well as the real world are so consumed by bitterness their lives must be quite affected . Anger is like swallowing poison and hoping the other person dies . They don't care . Maybe yoga would be helpful for some .

[Peach]

[Flathead]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18965[/ATTACH]

Did you get that from a joke shop?:laugh:

[flag of convenience]

Yep, i kind of guessed it would be the tories fault when all of the scum come out of the woodwork for a good old fashioned riot, lets put the blame on them before all the shops and cars are burnt out.

 

Thought you may have been on a learning curve for a mo...

[flag of convenience]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18965[/ATTACH]

 

WE all know she didn't achieve a lot but even sader are the Things She Did Do...

[Life on easy street]

Pot, kettle, black, verystormy. Your version of history is entirely biased and unrepresentative of the whole situation.

 

Thatcher was already on record as wanting the mines closed, back in 1981. She was being politically devious by removing subsidies and the result was a perfectly legal and legitimate strike. It was as a direct result of her policies, tactics and ambition that the mining industry (along with many others) was destroyed. You can harp on about what you think of 'the left' until the cows come home, but the reality is that Thatcher and the vegetables wanted rid of the manufacturing industries and the unions and set out to destroy them. The result was the economic destruction of entire towns, the loss of livelihoods and income for millions and all the while the better off were being encouraged not to give a damn and simply pursue their own wealth. She was a disgrace and we're better off without her.

 

No it was worse than that she destroyed whole regions

Mansfield, Worksop, Chesterfield, Doncaster were badly affected.

Sheffield and Nottingham were not as badly affected but could hardly be described as boom towns.

 

I don’t know what these towns are like today but judging by the cost of housing not well at all.

[SimoneAL]

RIP

Too late, though...

[Guest chris955]

Its very interesting that the loony left bang on about how she destroyed the coal industry but Harold Wilson ( LABOUR) actually closed more coal mines than Thatcher.

[Jackinabox]

Its very interesting that the loony left bang on about how she destroyed the coal industry but Harold Wilson ( LABOUR) actually closed more coal mines than Thatcher.

 

Often referred to as .....Selective memory, Hypocritical or cherry picking history.

 

The redistribution of wealth seems to fall within the same realm.........depending upon who is being discussed of course. Marx would say "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs",..............Skargill filled his own pockets and paid of houses within 6 months of purchase whilst his workforce starved. Won't be hearing much about that on here if us less bright keep quiet as asked.