Thatcher Dead

[Petals]

You really cannot compare Bob Hawk and Keating with Thatcher and the two countries because they are so different. There was a lot of divisiveness in the labour years, change of leadership just like now, also Keating was not popular, popular with me always thought he was a very good leader. He took over from Hawk when Hawk really did not want to go and Hawk took over from Hamer same way.

 

Hawk was the people's man, he was seen as a larakin and a good bloke, despite the fact that he is a most clever articulate man Rhodes scholar etc. Just had the common touch. Guess if Thatcher could have got a bit of the common touch people would be not so resentful. However she epitomized class by her demeanor and speech and she was a woman, therefore it was much much harder for her to have the common touch as it is with most women in power. If they are seen in the pub swilling beer etc just imagine what the DM would say about that.

[Perthbum]

Fair points...

John Bhoy wrote: "Thatcher died pampered at the Ritz hotel london..whilst many pensioners died cold hungry and alone this winter due to her legacy."

 

 

S.P. Harrison joked: "Why is it sad news, she was 87, a great age and she lived in the Ritz Hotel. No bedroom tax for her to worry about!"

 

 

Eddie Skeggs fumedL "So thatcher got to die in the ritz hotel? typical. our elderly get to die in freezing cold houses on there own! or poorly run care homes."

 

 

Julian Doyle simply said: "Margaret Thatcher spent last of her days at The Ritz Hotel. I don't think you need to say anything else."

 

 

Tom Chivers asked: "How many stroke sufferers will spend their final days in the 'more convenient' Ritz Hotel? Not under Thatcher, not under this government."

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[VERYSTORMY]

Fair play..your opinions...mine were that she ruined the country and devastated whole communities, left mining communities as ghost towns.

 

Ok, let's have a look. In 1979, the unions were in effect running the country. As a result we had just gone through the winter of discontent. The dead were piled up in tents, the streets were covered in rubbish and inflation was getting to the point that Mugabe would be smirking. People had been without power in the winter and the country was a mess.

 

It was clear that a whole raft of things were needed. One of which was to stop bailing out some of the mines that were barely producing anything but costing silly amounts to keep open. Scargil got hold and, without a ballot, called a nationwide strike. The problem with which was that for a year, a number of the mines flooded as the unions wouldn't even allow the pumps to be ran. Now, once a mine floods, it is often the end of the line. Miners are very nervous of water - drowning is one of the biggest killers underground. So, a number of the mines were killed by the miners themselves. Then a number which hadn't been under threat, found they were as the cost of the year with no production, meant these were now no longer economic.

 

Then let's have a look at the other things. The economy was stuffed, the promising financial sector couldn't get off the ground as it was marred in red tape. A lot of people slam the bankers and financial sector, but the reality is, that by it booming, it poured money into the government both directly and indirect. The result is that it paid for a huge amount of the government finances. Money that was desperately needed. Never forget that only previously the UK had declared itself broke and requested a bale out. The UK was the Greece of the 1970's.

 

Let's look at some of her other achievements. She brought in the right to buy a council house. Some thing the left hated as they see it as everyone has to be brought down to the bottom. She wanted to bring people up from the bottom.

 

She kept a strong back against Europe - In 1984 she pretty much forecast the mess Europe now finds itself in.

 

She privatized a number of industries and turned them from sectors that were needing a huge amount of money to prop up from goverment subsidy to organizations now giving money back to the goverment in tax.

 

She was instrumental in the freeing of Nelson Mandela. She had fought against sanctions on SA as she believed, rightly, that they would only hut the poorest / black people and instead the way to go was to persuade the SA goverment to change.

 

She made errors, as any person does, but she was a great leader who dragged a bedraggled down trodden UK back to being a major world economy.

[Guest guest74886]

News just in....

 

Never speak ill of the dead my grandad said, but it's hard to abide by that sentiment in this case.

I'll only mention the GFC once and pose the question, would it have happened if she and her buddy Ronald Reagan had not opened the doors to deregulation of the money world?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And for the social demise of the UK, would it have got as bad as it has if she had left 'Council housing' in the hands of Local Government instead of giving it away to anybody who could lie their way into a mortgage?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:cry:

[flag of convenience]

Nobody saying anything that they wouldn't have said when she was alive.

 

yes, I feel for her family for what is a deeply sad time for them.

 

but why should the man in the street pretend to be upset that she is dead, she was the one that brought so much misery to every bodies lives. She knew what she she was doing.

 

What are we all meant to do now, suddenly decide she was the greatest leader ever? That she had all our best interests at heart.

 

you are who you are throughout your life, if nobody mourns you, then you weren't much of a nice person were you.

 

I'm sure she'll be mourned by millions just as she will be dispised by many. The street celebrations in Brixton/Leeds and Glasgow didn't look thet attracted very many considering. Perhaps more to coincide with the funeral?

 

Of course if nobody mourns one's passing it could be just that person was sadly a nobody, in the eyes of most. Thatcher's name will live on into the future though. I do hope the negatives are not whitewashed though.

[Johndoe]

I can't for the life of me see why anyone sees the sale of council housing as a good thing (long term) and one of her "achievements"? It was a wholesale sell off of a public asset, and absolutely nothing to do with giving the tenants a "leg up" Did she replace the sold ones with new ones? Did she buggery! She created a whole new generation of tory voters in one fell swoop and removed housing that should have been made available for those who couldn't afford their own. Some of the rules for buying were ludicrous.............I know..................I was in one at the time. I'd been in it for only 3 years but was entitled to nearly 50% discount on market price as my forces service counted as if I had been a tenant, and, even worse..........I was also allowed the discount based on how long my parents had been in their house!

 

Councils were banned from using the money gained to build replacements and were forced to downpay debt with it.

[VERYSTORMY]

You need to do some research. The biggest deregulation of the banking sector in the UK was the massive amendments to the Financial Services Act. Which was done under Blair.

 

Never speak ill of the dead my grandad said, but it's hard to abide by that sentiment in this case.

I'll only mention the GFC once and pose the question, would it have happened if she and her buddy Ronald Reagan had not opened the doors to deregulation of the money world?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And for the social demise of the UK, would it have got as bad as it has if she had left 'Council housing' in the hands of Local Government instead of giving it away to anybody who could lie their way into a mortgage?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:cry:

[flag of convenience]

WOW...just WOW at some of the post on here...anyone would think the UK lived under a dictator.

 

 

The time for all this was when she retired....but celebrating the death of someone....sick

 

Maggie Thatcher during her reign created a massive divide both in the nation and in public opinion. Is it no wonder that the two sides voice their opinistance at the time of her death.

 

She was after all a politician not an ordinary old grandma,who took delight in public personna as being a tough Churchillian type of figure. As such would probably take great delight in the contoversy caused since her death on her time at the helm.

[VERYSTORMY]

Actually, you need to look at the act. Councils were only barred from using it for replacing housing stock if they had debt. It is notable that this affected most some of the worst ran councils in the UK.

 

The principle of social housing is good, but the principle of council estates bad as it just created ghettoes of lower paid / benefits recipients.

 

By the way, it was originally a labour idea.

 

Getting people out of council houses is a major positive. There is no benefit to either society or the people that live in them for them to exist. The council house system means the local authority spend a huge amount of money in caring for housing. The management of which is so expensive that the money in rent is simply lost in bureaucracy. Instead, if the tenant has the right to own, the council is freed, the new owner has an equity that can be used later in life for either retirement or to help out children and people who need to rent can in the private sector, which is now bigger in stock and that money goes not into the vast bureaucracy of a council, but to the private owner who keeps the money flowing through society.

 

I can't for the life of me see why anyone sees the sale of council housing as a good thing (long term) and one of her "achievements"? It was a wholesale sell off of a public asset, and absolutely nothing to do with giving the tenants a "leg up" Did she replace the sold ones with new ones? Did she buggery! She created a whole new generation of tory voters in one fell swoop and removed housing that should have been made available for those who couldn't afford their own. Some of the rules for buying were ludicrous.............I know..................I was in one at the time. I'd been in it for only 3 years but was entitled to nearly 50% discount on market price as my forces service counted as if I had been a tenant, and, even worse..........I was also allowed the discount based on how long my parents had been in their house!

 

Councils were banned from using the money gained to build replacements and were forced to downpay debt with it.

[flag of convenience]

I thought thay there might be the odd comment, there usually is, but some of them are way over the top and whatever people thought about her, she left the country in a far better condition than when she took over

 

If Cameron loses the next election, will people wait 40-odd years to celebrate his death or will they celebrate when he leaves office?

 

 

For people to come out and say they have been waiting nearly 25 years for her to die since she left office and to 'celebrate' is sick and I'll bet some of the people saying these things weren't even born when she was in office.

 

For a start Cameroon is not a conviction politician Thatcher,love her or hate or was. Cameroon like Major will quickly be forgotton,I suspect. Nothing sick about the comments. Thatcher for those that lived during her time aroused intensity of feeling in people.

Besides the fact she has long departed the stage Thatcherism still at the for front of a lot of policy thinking and decisions in today's world.

She even claimed her biggest victory was how she changed the Labour Party, or words to that effect.

[VERYSTORMY]

I will though another one at you. The Poll Tax was the fairest local tax in UK history. I remember blazing rows with my parents over that view, but the evidence was clear. In the old / current system, my aunt who lived (still does) a couple of streets from my family. She is a widow, we were a family of 4 adults. Why should she pay more than us? She shouldn't. Madness

[flag of convenience]

With alot of, what I can only see as disgust towards Mrs Thatcher, how on earth did she win 3 elections and serve as PM for 10 years??

 

Will anyone else match that this centuary. because if they cant, they must be doing a worse job than she had!!

 

I really feel sorry for them and the remarks that will be left for these failures!!

 

Well the second electon I remember well and it was off the backs of The Falklands. Prior to that she had very low ratings and was loathed. The first one wasn't hard considering the turmoil of the time. The third one she was returned by a very low minority after a low turn out. The fizz was going out by this stage.

[flag of convenience]

She didnt just run the country , she saved it ......just looking at the mess she inherited in the late 70s .....( sounds familiar ).......i didnt agree with all of her politics ......but what a great leader and figurehead .

Her first love was for these islands , and their standing in the world .........under labour in the 70s , the place was a joke ..........she put us back on the top table

 

I do agree. Her head would have looked great as a figurehead on the prow of a British Man of War sailing into battle against the pesky Spanish in the 16 century.

[flag of convenience]

I did not like her but I Loathed Scargill.

 

The slight difference being one being a self important union leader,responsible for those in his union the other the leader of a nation, supposely governing for all. Just a little difference, I think.

[Lambethlad]

She was very good for Australia. She was the reason thousands of Brits decided to start a new life in Oz.

[flag of convenience]

Need I say Blair? He won a few elections too if I remember.

 

Very true which somehow disputes the idea that a ruling party has to be any good.

[Chortlepuss]

I can't for the life of me see why anyone sees the sale of council housing as a good thing (long term) and one of her "achievements"?

 

Councils were banned from using the money gained to build replacements and were forced to downpay debt with it.

 

Years ago, as a young couple we bought an ex council house for 84K It was in a nice area, and a good solid house, but a struggle for us to buy . The previous owner had been a fireman, had been a council tenant and exercised 'right to buy'. Nice little earner. Our neighbours got the option to buy theirs from the council - I think it was under $40K for them. Our neighbours didn't earn any less than us, and to this day I feel it was deeply unfair that they got a huge discount for what? lucky enough to have been renting from the council in the first place? (we had been renting previously too but in the private sector - no one gave us a discount!). The neighbours on the other side of us then exercised their right to buy too - and had no concept that this entailed repairing the property etc and that someone from the council wouldnt be round to sort out all their problems. Did Maggie really believe that giving people who had always been dependant on the state a discount house would turn them into go getting entrepreneurs? Council housing is to provide people who can't afford to buy somewhere to live. It's not designed as a get rich quick scheme or to provide discount homes to relatively high earners. It was one of Maggie's poorer ill thought out decisions, designed for short term brownie points but with long term ramifications for the available housing stock. I still remember one of my young team members at work boasting about how cheap their (5 bedroom good condition) ex-council house was to buy and how stupid all the rest of us were to pay full prices for our houses...

[Johndoe]

Double (or more) your money after 3 yrs. I know folk who sold theirs as soon as they could and moved back into private rental.

[flag of convenience]

That may be the case NSP, but she left office nearly 25 years ago...are people still 'suffering' from her policies...I doubt it.

There may be the odd miner who decided not to look for another job that lives in hope of the local pit re-opening.

 

I also think Brown did a hell if a lot of damage to this country, I'll discuss his policies now!

When he dies I won't be posting on websites I'm glad he's dead...I suppose it's just the nature of people these days.

 

Are people still suffereing the legacy of Thatcher? You obviously haven't studied the Thatcherite period and philosophy deep enough to know its influence even today on ongoing policies.

 

Thatcher's Right to Buy scheme with regard to council housing was a big no no for me. I could never understand why tax payers should subidise cheap housing purchases to tenants. Not only that but a few years later they could sell it off at matket price.

Council houses were in place to put a roof over the head of low income folk. Totally agree with that. Not with Thatcher buying the working class vote by selling a million' peoples houses'.

The legacy todat 5 million folk languish on council waiting lists,while billions of pounds are paid to private landlords,charging rip off rents.

 

Are workers in UK better off today? Many applaud the destruction of union power in UK but at what cost to individuals and standards of living? Workers left to the mercy of bosses tend to make them poorer. I have even heard the odd speaker for the Right there say there is an arguement unions were too weakened.

Four years before the present economic downturn,the bottom third earnings actually begain to decline, even as corporations were recording record profits.

Not forgetting UK is one of the most unequal countries.

[flag of convenience]

Actually, you need to look at the act. Councils were only barred from using it for replacing housing stock if they had debt. It is notable that this affected most some of the worst ran councils in the UK.

 

The principle of social housing is good, but the principle of council estates bad as it just created ghettoes of lower paid / benefits recipients.

 

By the way, it was originally a labour idea.

 

Getting people out of council houses is a major positive. There is no benefit to either society or the people that live in them for them to exist. The council house system means the local authority spend a huge amount of money in caring for housing. The management of which is so expensive that the money in rent is simply lost in bureaucracy. Instead, if the tenant has the right to own, the council is freed, the new owner has an equity that can be used later in life for either retirement or to help out children and people who need to rent can in the private sector, which is now bigger in stock and that money goes not into the vast bureaucracy of a council, but to the private owner who keeps the money flowing through society.

 

Good idea? Taxpayers paying over the top to house families in hotels and private rentals? Very original and smart idea. Fact being of course there are no affordable rents on the private market for esential workers on lower pay,especially in cities like London.

[flag of convenience]

Double (or more) your money after 3 yrs. I know folk who sold theirs as soon as they could and moved back into private rental.

 

But there was a waiting period prior to being allowed to sell. Was it two years? All wrong whatever.

[newjez]

I think Blair is more a Thatcherite than Cameron.

 

You need to do some research. The biggest deregulation of the banking sector in the UK was the massive amendments to the Financial Services Act. Which was done under Blair.

[Johndoe]

But there was a waiting period prior to being allowed to sell. Was it two years? All wrong whatever.

 

Depended on the council and they had to be offered first shout. In my case I could have bought @ 33k (market value 66k) and sold 3 yrs later at whatever I could get for it. I'm assuming Blackpool council declined "first shout" as I saw literally dozens of ex council houses sold to private buyers. A messy divorce saw to it that my ex missus made the killing!..................she not only got my discount, but my parent's as well, even though we were divorced.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Johndoe

[newjez]

Shall we look at the combined value of the gas and electric utilities today and compare them to what they were sold for? Good investment decision for the govt? I think not.

 

I do love all this talk of her being a strong leader. Hitler was a strong leader. A strong leader doesn't imply a good leader.

[Guest]

Haven't read all the posts on here but I'm just wondering whether all those condeming the celebration of her death also expressed simliar views at that death of Saddam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden and offered condolences to their families. If not, why not? They were strong leaders who stood up for what they believed in and were prepared to die for it - the kind of qualities people admire in Margaret Thatcher...

 

If you condemed the celebration of their deaths too then hats off to you, I admire your morals, you are a better person than I can be.