Stuck in ‘Paradise’

[Marisawright]

24 minutes ago, Red Rose said:

. The attachment and yearning some people have for the UK will always be more than superficial because the UK is a part of them, it's in their DNA, and no amount of counselling or counter arguments will ever change that.

That is 100% true. Counselling cannot change those feelings, and nor should it.  However, if you're stuck in Australia for whatever reason, counselling CAN help you cope a lot better with those feelings.   If nothing else, it gives you someone who'll lend a sympathetic ear, whereas you've probably given up talking to family and friends about it - and having a vent now and then definitely helps.  

[Red Rose]

13 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

That is 100% true. Counselling cannot change those feelings, and nor should it.  However, if you're stuck in Australia for whatever reason, counselling CAN help you cope a lot better with those feelings.   If nothing else, it gives you someone who'll lend a sympathetic ear, whereas you've probably given up talking to family and friends about it - and having a vent now and then definitely helps.  

True, true. 

[Toots]

8 hours ago, Red Rose said:

I have not read all the posts in this thread, but for some people they just have this strong emotional attachment to the UK and don't realise what they have been missing until they have experienced living overseas. The UK is far from perfect of, of course, but for me it is the quaintness and old fashioned charm of this country that I find most appealing. I realise how much I love old fashioned royal mail post boxes built into stone walls, national trust houses, English pubs, places like the lake District, cream teas, the cold, open fires, narrow country lanes, and just the sheer diversity of landscape, accents and culture in such a small country. The attachment and yearning some people have for the UK will always be more than superficial because the UK is a part of them, it's in their DNA, and no amount of counselling or counter arguments will ever change that.

Until I joined this forum I was completely unaware that some migrants yearned to return to their home country.  It's really quite sad to read the posts from those people.

[starlight7]

Of course another thing is that the UK you left has changed a lot. Sometimes we remember it as it used to be. I don't know the place anymore now, it feels foreign to me the same as I suppose Australia feels for those who have been absent a long time.  

[Marisawright]

37 minutes ago, starlight7 said:

Of course another thing is that the UK you left has changed a lot. Sometimes we remember it as it used to be. I don't know the place anymore now, it feels foreign to me the same as I suppose Australia feels for those who have been absent a long time.  

That's true, IF the problem is nostalgia. But if you look at people like @Quoll or @Chortlepuss, it has nothing to do with nostalgia. As bugfamily says, the Welsh have a word for it: hiraeth.  It's "the sense of being so much a part of a place -- and the place, a part of you -- that you feel forever incomplete when separated from it."

I've never felt like that - and I'm assuming you haven't either.  In fact it stands to reason that those of us happily settled in Australia  have never felt it - if we did, we wouldn't be happily settled, would we?  And for those of us who've never felt it, it's hard to imagine how anyone could possibly feel so closely bound up with a place. I mean, it's just a place!    It's taken me a long time to accept that it's a lot more than just homesickness or nostalgia and that it's genuine and deeply felt.

I can't decide whether I envy people who feel like that - imagine how deeply contented they must be when they're on their home soil - or sorry for them, because they can never be really happy anywhere else.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Marisawright

[proud preston]

16 hours ago, Red Rose said:

I have not read all the posts in this thread, but for some people they just have this strong emotional attachment to the UK and don't realise what they have been missing until they have experienced living overseas. The UK is far from perfect of, of course, but for me it is the quaintness and old fashioned charm of this country that I find most appealing. I realise how much I love old fashioned royal mail post boxes built into stone walls, national trust houses, English pubs, places like the lake District, cream teas, the cold, open fires, narrow country lanes, and just the sheer diversity of landscape, accents and culture in such a small country. The attachment and yearning some people have for the UK will always be more than superficial because the UK is a part of them, it's in their DNA, and no amount of counselling or counter arguments will ever change that.

Yes! All of the above and more. Thank you.

[Bulya]

On 01/12/2021 at 23:47, proud preston said:

@bug family- Well meaning posts have wondered if I’m depressed too - not at all - yet I do have this constant longing for ‘home’. I’m wondering about your thoughts on the mini obsession I have with ‘we should have migrated to Canada’ Some have discounted this and said I’d still feel so homesick - and whilst I can see their point yet ......Canada has the same 4 seasons, it’s the Northern Hemisphere, old buildings, also French, probably similar opportunities to here and it’s so much nearer to the UK. Familiar trees, mountains, lots of hiking in decent  weather. Easier to wrap up warm than try and stay cool. etc. I’ve an old school friend who lives in Catskills, New York state. She has acres of land filled with deciduous trees and gets snow at Christmas- I’ve often thought I may have taken to Canada more than Australia but that ship has sailed anyway as too old to try. 

We occasionally get snow at Xmas but always in winter.   Walk in the snow and then marshmallows on a stick over an open fire and a mug of gluhwein…

[Bulya]

On 02/12/2021 at 01:33, Amber Snowball said:

I can sympathise, I have sometimes thought maybe I shouldn’t have chosen Australia but not sure it would have been any different tbh. Canadians and Americans are very different cultures again and relative proximity doesn’t mean they are any more similar to the UK than continental europe. The weather and landscape might be more similar but probably not much else, so I wouldn’t beat yourself up about a decision made in good faith, with the information at hand at the time and many years ago.

I have moved to a different part of the uk and I think this is about as good as I can hope for. I miss some aspects of australia but not much. It was a good adventure for 10 years and served me well, last 3 years were more unsettled, but anyway. All we can do is make the best of what we have. I wish you peace and happiness.

How many states/territories did you live in here?

[s713]

@Bulya you always make it sound like, if only we'd moved down the road. I lived in Perth, worked in Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, not interested in living there.

Canberra? Even Aussies think it's crap.

You know, let it go, some people want to move back to something different. Oz is OK, Uk is OK, the crusade you are on is baseless.

 

[Amber Snowball]

7 hours ago, s713 said:

@Bulya you always make it sound like, if only we'd moved down the road. I lived in Perth, worked in Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, not interested in living there.

Canberra? Even Aussies think it's crap.

You know, let it go, some people want to move back to something different. Oz is OK, Uk is OK, the crusade you are on is baseless.

 

☝you speak for many of us.
I don’t even bother engaging now. Does my head in. I was posting a supportive message for someone else not looking for a debate on a decision I made years ago.

How are you doing now? You are up in the NW as well I think aren’t you? 

[s713]

On 11/12/2021 at 07:28, Amber Snowball said:

☝you speak for many of us.
I don’t even bother engaging now. Does my head in. I was posting a supportive message for someone else not looking for a debate on a decision I made years ago.

How are you doing now? You are up in the NW as well I think aren’t you? 

Yes I am, and enjoying every minute. Been for a nice walk at Dunham Massey today, would have liked to have done the lights but have something else on tonight. Hope you're well.

[Amber Snowball]

6 minutes ago, s713 said:

Yes I am, and enjoying every minute. Been for a nice walk at Dunham Massey today, would have liked to have done the lights but have something else on tonight. Hope you're well.

Ah lovely, I have thought I’d like to do some of the light displays, must be more organised next year! 

Yes I am well thanks, as much as a struggle the nhs is to work in, I am pretty happy and settled.

[Antipodista]

@Amber Snowball @s713 sounds like there are 3 of us in this little section for Cheshire West and Chester?!

Totally agree with your comments btw It all gets a bit troll-y sometimes.

I went to Delamere with the kids yesterday for the light show - fantastic! X

[s713]

Sounds great. This is our 3rd Xmas back here, absolutely love it.

[Rallyman]

We stop in Chester when we travel back , had many a night out there and the races are great. 
I am from just over boarder in wales originally, one size does not fit all , don’t get the anti for one country over the other. 
very lucky to have a choice to live in either. 

[simmo]

On 06/11/2021 at 22:48, proud preston said:

I’ve posted many times before and I know it’s almost cathartic for me to post, hence why I’m doing it again. I just need the opportunity to ‘pour my heart out’ AKA - whinge  (again!) 

We arrived here 16 years ago next month. I still recall an English couple we met - maybe in their 60’s - archetypal ping pong poms. At the time we were in our mid 30’s. I remember thinking the wife seemed sad and somewhat bitter. She hated being here and it clearly showed in their relationship. Husband loved Australia yet ....happened to say one day ‘ hmm after a while it gets a bit boring here’ His wife, in a fabulous East London accent, quick as a flash snapped back in a scathing attack -  “ Bored? in f##king paradise?” Highly amusing for us newbies at the time.  However, I find I’ve become that scathing, sarcastic  person who hates the drama, sensationalism of seven TV news and any other TV prog, can’t stand the crooked government, saddened by the over development and clearing of trees, all too often looking for shade and couldn’t stand walking in these months when it’s after 8am,  love the landscape yet hate the landscape.....It’s got that I all too often despise Australia and Australians. An awful way to live and I know it’s me that is the problem as I am wallowing in my own self pity. 

Anyway, ‘stuck in paradise’ - I understand and acknowledge people will say ‘just go’ but how can I ? Our two sons  are 18 and 20 and are out right ‘Australian’ My fears came true. I’d hoped to move back so they could start secondary school in the UK or Ireland- didn’t happen. Maybe start uni back over - didn’t happen. Wasted so much time looking into fees etc etc. and planning (just me planning this!) I’d be abandoning three people I love who are my life. I have started to feel jealous of my siblings who see each other and their grandchildren, who share the same gripes about the UK but appreciate and love the UK - their home, their history and their familiarity.

This sad resolve that I’m here until I shuffle off this mortal coil,  and it makes me bloomin miserable and angry. I didn’t think this would be my life. I never disliked the UK - as many others find -  spouse wanting ‘ a better life’ . I really miss my siblings, I regret not being near my mum in her latter years, I miss the landscape and buildings in England. I’ve even become obsessed with the thought that ‘ things would have been better if we’d migrated to Canada - nearer, northern hemisphere seasons etc’

This is another whinge - I know - and I do appreciate that it can seem self indulgent as there are thousands upon thousands of people experiencing awful lives for a myriad of reasons. No easy answer. I admire those who go back and leave family. I know I couldn’t ever do that. 

Thanks all. Thanks for the opportunity to (almost) anonymously have a heartfelt pouring out of mixed up feelings. 

I don't really have any practical advice but there are some good people on here who understand exactly what you are going through.

I was lucky in that we realized very soon that Australia wasn't for us.  My kids were very young so it was easy to wipe our mouths and move on.  

My opinion (for what it's worth) would be to move back to the UK.  COVID aside, the world is a very small place and keeping in contact with your kids will be achievable now things like video calling is accessible to all.

It's a bit morbid but as you get older close friends and family start dropping like flies and you need to make the personal choice of whether spending time with these people is as important as living the "Australian dream".

Anyway, I wish you the best of British in what ever you decide to do.

 

[perthpom1]

it has been great reading these posts, but I can see how hard it is and how people are feeling like they are "stuck in paradise".  I can see how it is hard to shake a negative feeling about the place also. - The last two years have , with the border issues have only made me, and possibly others, really think about home and family even more so. .

I did feel stuck , but now we have made the choice to go home, the feeling has lifted and I am making the most of things in Perth. I love the weather here, have some great friends (mostly expats) but miss so many things about the UK, as well as family and good friends who i am still in regular contact with. We have been here from about 9 years, loved it at first, wife and I have good jobs, but we also left a good life in the UK, good mates and both have big families . Since we came, we started a family , have no family here, built our house, started a business, sp it has gone well for us, but we also feel bored, hate the politics, lack of culture, difficulty and cost of travel. We are going back in about 16 months - kids are young and so will adapt, I hope!!  

Luckily my spouse is open / keen to going back  - so we are just looking at our time in Perth as a fun adventure and now on to the next. I am so glad, I can't wait to get back! We know it will be different to before, but we are older (possibly wiser :) , and our priorities are now our family. 

 

Back to the main point though.It is very hard to discuss with people here, especially in Perth where you have a lot of brits who are very negative about the Uk - mostly just repeating Daily Mail stories about immigration etc. I sometimes feel that some of our expat mates here are indeed stuck in paradise and would love to go home if they could. We are off though and I can't wait!!

 

[Chortlepuss]

On 18/02/2022 at 00:49, perthpom1 said:

it has been great reading these posts, but I can see how hard it is and how people are feeling like they are "stuck in paradise".  I can see how it is hard to shake a negative feeling about the place also. - The last two years have , with the border issues have only made me, and possibly others, really think about home and family even more so. .

I did feel stuck , but now we have made the choice to go home, the feeling has lifted and I am making the most of things in Perth. I love the weather here, have some great friends (mostly expats) but miss so many things about the UK, as well as family and good friends who i am still in regular contact with. We have been here from about 9 years, loved it at first, wife and I have good jobs, but we also left a good life in the UK, good mates and both have big families . Since we came, we started a family , have no family here, built our house, started a business, sp it has gone well for us, but we also feel bored, hate the politics, lack of culture, difficulty and cost of travel. We are going back in about 16 months - kids are young and so will adapt, I hope!!  

Luckily my spouse is open / keen to going back  - so we are just looking at our time in Perth as a fun adventure and now on to the next. I am so glad, I can't wait to get back! We know it will be different to before, but we are older (possibly wiser , and our priorities are now our family. 

 

Back to the main point though.It is very hard to discuss with people here, especially in Perth where you have a lot of brits who are very negative about the Uk - mostly just repeating Daily Mail stories about immigration etc. I sometimes feel that some of our expat mates here are indeed stuck in paradise and would love to go home if they could. We are off though and I can't wait!!

 

What a lovely post. I do chuckle when I hear about ‘immigrants’ in the UK and also view strong anti-British sentiment with suspicion. I loved it too (In Brisbane) at first - I wonder if that was cos I was on a temp visa and determined to make the most of it? Then we drifted into citizenship and it all became a bit real. Anyhow my sisters are dotted around UK and apart from gripes about weather are all doing very well. There are so many gorgeous places to choose from and I’m sure you’ll have a great time exploring! Meanwhile you can tick Oz off the list knowing that not much will change (except hopefully the Govt) in your absence 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Chortlepuss

[BrisPaul]

Hi, I haven't been on here for nearly 7 years now. The last time was seeking advice about returning back here to the UK after living in Brisbane for 12 years where I lived with my wife and 2 young kids when we went and left as teenagers. Just reading through the original post and other peoples replies and the memories of have exactly the same thoughts have come rushing back hence why I felt I had to type this reply.

Right where to begin.... A lot had changed in the 12 years we were away and even move has changed in the years we have been back!! I can honestly say hand on heart we've made the wrong decision moving back. It has had numerous positives such as seeing and being with family, having a much better social life, going the match with me mates, holidays in Europe and enjoying the four seasons again. BUT the downside is it was extremely hard for my girls to move into UK secondary schools they are worlds apart from the Aussie ones, work has been much more of a struggle to find and to keep, cost of living is through the roof now. I though Oz was bad but at least the wages there were on par with the cost of living, Brexit and now post cover really are taking its toll on the economy. Don't get me started on the NHS!!! The current and proceeding governments have tried their best to quietly destroy it. Society here is a lot tougher than Oz. I'm not daft enough to say that Oz is utopia, its obviously not. I'm from just outside Liverpool and class myself as pretty street wise and can see the surrounding society for what it is and Oz wins hands down. Also the weather which I had grown tired of is the biggest thing I miss. After 6 years I still hate the wind, rain and cold drab days. As you all know it really stops you going outside and enjoying life. Don't get me wrong both my girls are happy here they are both at Uni's and are now in a different period of their lives and are happy. My wife is the type of person like myself who doesn't grumble and is happy where ever she is, as am I to a certain extent but if I had my time over again I would not have moved back. We still talk to ex pat friends in Oz who are thinking of coming back and I've told them to not rush into anything. I get that everyone is different and everyone has their own reasons for coming back which is fair enough, I just hate for anyone to make the same mistakes as we did in coming back when really all we had done was become accustomed to the life we had and craved something different.

Who knows, maybe once you've lived somewhere for a considerable amount of time in a country you long for the good times you remember and blank out the bad stuff. I do remember being bored a lot out there and thinking now, that maybe it was me who was boring and should have done more, even though I do consider myself quite outgoing.

As I've said I don't cry myself to sleep every night missing Oz and the time I'm spending with my Mum and her latter years is absolutely priceless and feel blessed but to be blunt that really has been the real only benefit of being back here. If my girls both decide to move out to Oz latter on in life we'll both be out there like a shot but if not then we'll just stay wherever they are......

Anyway thanks for listening and the best of luck to all whatever you decide to do. 

[Amber Snowball]

48 minutes ago, BrisPaul said:

Hi, I haven't been on here for nearly 7 years now. The last time was seeking advice about returning back here to the UK after living in Brisbane for 12 years where I lived with my wife and 2 young kids when we went and left as teenagers. Just reading through the original post and other peoples replies and the memories of have exactly the same thoughts have come rushing back hence why I felt I had to type this reply.

Right where to begin.... A lot had changed in the 12 years we were away and even move has changed in the years we have been back!! I can honestly say hand on heart we've made the wrong decision moving back. It has had numerous positives such as seeing and being with family, having a much better social life, going the match with me mates, holidays in Europe and enjoying the four seasons again. BUT the downside is it was extremely hard for my girls to move into UK secondary schools they are worlds apart from the Aussie ones, work has been much more of a struggle to find and to keep, cost of living is through the roof now. I though Oz was bad but at least the wages there were on par with the cost of living, Brexit and now post cover really are taking its toll on the economy. Don't get me started on the NHS!!! The current and proceeding governments have tried their best to quietly destroy it. Society here is a lot tougher than Oz. I'm not daft enough to say that Oz is utopia, its obviously not. I'm from just outside Liverpool and class myself as pretty street wise and can see the surrounding society for what it is and Oz wins hands down. Also the weather which I had grown tired of is the biggest thing I miss. After 6 years I still hate the wind, rain and cold drab days. As you all know it really stops you going outside and enjoying life. Don't get me wrong both my girls are happy here they are both at Uni's and are now in a different period of their lives and are happy. My wife is the type of person like myself who doesn't grumble and is happy where ever she is, as am I to a certain extent but if I had my time over again I would not have moved back. We still talk to ex pat friends in Oz who are thinking of coming back and I've told them to not rush into anything. I get that everyone is different and everyone has their own reasons for coming back which is fair enough, I just hate for anyone to make the same mistakes as we did in coming back when really all we had done was become accustomed to the life we had and craved something different.

Who knows, maybe once you've lived somewhere for a considerable amount of time in a country you long for the good times you remember and blank out the bad stuff. I do remember being bored a lot out there and thinking now, that maybe it was me who was boring and should have done more, even though I do consider myself quite outgoing.

As I've said I don't cry myself to sleep every night missing Oz and the time I'm spending with my Mum and her latter years is absolutely priceless and feel blessed but to be blunt that really has been the real only benefit of being back here. If my girls both decide to move out to Oz latter on in life we'll both be out there like a shot but if not then we'll just stay wherever they are......

Anyway thanks for listening and the best of luck to all whatever you decide to do. 

Brutally honest post there.

I think that make the best of where you are attitude is great and who knows where your children end up. Might not be uk or Australia, in which case you’ll be free to go anywhere yourself, finances allowing.

It is very important that we don’t focus only on the good of then compared to the bad of now, in either country.

Not sure where outside Liverpool you are but I worked in Knowsley for 3 years when I returned in 2018 and if that was my only observation of the uk I’d have been on the first flight back to Australia. I’m in Frodsham which is 25 minutes and light years away from Knowsley. I work in the nhs and without doubt it is a basket case and has been for years. As an aside have you been watching This Might Hurt on the bbc? It’s based on an ex doctors experience back in the early 90s and everything rang true. But 30 years on and not sure what has changed. Worth a watch, some of it is pretty hard going but an honest account, all of it.

Anyhoo, I wish you all the best, a bit of peace and happiness. Who knows what the future holds. My son has been been sick, he’s 27 and still in Australia and this is the first time since leaving Australia that I really wobbled. Not that I could do anything even if I was there,  but I really felt the distance. Only saving grace is there are more flights and easing restrictions so I could at least get there now.

Sorry, went off track there, bit of therapy at the end.

[Amber Snowball]

It’s called This is going to hurt.

[proud preston]

@BrisPaul Interesting to read your experience. When did you start to feel that it was the wrong decision? As I am reading I'm wondering if you both think about the "what if we'd just stayed put in the UK and never migrated?" I think for so many of us that migrate there can sometimes be that "wish I'd just stayed put" as once you migrate you can feel a bit like nowhere is really truly home (well I think I do) Good to hear your daughters are now happy at uni. I look at my 2 boys here- both at uni and both still at home in Brisbane. I feel like uni is just an extension of school life and no fun at all. I went to uni in Newcastle and it was the whole fabulous life experience of being away from home. I can't help but feel jealous of nephews and nieces and friends children having a similar "away from home" uni experience in the UK.

I'm sick of myself for continuing to grapple with Aus/UK. I'm my own worst enemy. It's always somewhere in my mind. I talk to my siblings each week and I am astounded that they rarely see their GP nowadays and I know that I do appreciate being able to see my GP here whenever I need to- a scary prospect re poor access to a GP; especially as we age. I think you summed it up though regarding spending time with your mum- My loss (and guilt) that I left the UK  when mum was 75 and was still here when she was battling with dementia. I was so close to mum and this was probably what I dreaded most when I got swept along with the whole "Australia better life" argument

On the subject of boring- I love hiking and camping etc and love the gum trees, wildlife and so on but am feeling it's all a bit "the same"

[BrisPaul]

I started feeling like we'd made a mistake within 12 months. After the first few months of catching up with everybody and the routine of life kicked in. Realisation started to hit home. I never said anything and just got on with it for fear of unsettling my family again. We just got back in time for my 15 year old to squeeze into secondary school as you all know the Aussie school age left her a year behind. She worked really hard and caught up with the curriculum and got back on track. So the option of going back to Australia wasn't even on the table. As I said in the previous post the timing was awful due to the school age of my eldest and was my biggest regret in the decision.

I don't think we've ever said "we wish we stayed in the UK and never emigrated" because it was the happiest we've ever been as a family. Having a really well paid job the country really did give us everything we wished for and more. We lived in North Lakes and life just became a bit plastic. Oz is full of these estates that have gorgeous homes well thought out amenities with playgrounds, schools and shopping centres sprung up overnight. We were really, really happy for a while then started to feel it was a bit soul less. I can't put my finger but I wish we'd have just stayed and I've no doubt the feelings of wanting to return to our roots would have passed.

We live on the Wirral so its not too bad of an area, and if anything being in Oz has made us appreciate where we are more than ever. I regularly go into Snowdonia National Park hiking and have weekends away in the UK more than what we've ever done before we emigrated.

Life is full of crossroads isn't it? You make a choice and hope its the right one, some you win and some you don't and my own personal choice at that crossroad was wrong. But I will say one thing if I was still there now and had been trapped there unable to see my last remaining parent as all our friends over there have I'd be absolutely beside myself so I suppose I've spared myself that anguish. Hahaha.

My eldest daughter who I've been telling you about rang us last night to tell us she's selling her car as she wants to go back to Oz for a month over Christmas. Strange turn of events this week for me stumbling over an old Pomsinoz email which lied me to post to my daughter saying she's coming back!!

My youngest is in Leeds Uni and absolutely loves it and has no urges to return at all but either way the one thing I have given them is the option with the dual passport to leave if they want to later on in their lives.

Anyway, I hope you all choose the correct turning at your own personal crossroads.

[BrisPaul]

On 20/02/2022 at 19:47, Amber Snowball said:

It’s called This is going to hurt.

I'll keep an eye out for that, thanks

[calNgary]

3 hours ago, BrisPaul said:

I don't think we've ever said "we wish we stayed in the UK and never emigrated" because it was the happiest we've ever been as a family. Having a really well paid job the country really did give us everything we wished for and more. We lived in North Lakes and life just became a bit plastic. Oz is full of these estates that have gorgeous homes well thought out amenities with playgrounds, schools and shopping centres sprung up overnight. We were really, really happy for a while then started to feel it was a bit soul less. I can't put my finger but I wish we'd have just stayed and I've no doubt the feelings of wanting to return to our roots would have passed.

 

Hi

 This is totally off track but you didn't happen to have 2 dogs and sell one prior to returning to UK did you?  We bought a dog around the time you left off a family from NL and would love to update them now but have no contact details.

  Cal x