Stuck in ‘Paradise’

[nuttychemist26@yahoo.co.uk]

On 07/11/2021 at 08:48, proud preston said:

I’ve posted many times before and I know it’s almost cathartic for me to post, hence why I’m doing it again. I just need the opportunity to ‘pour my heart out’ AKA - whinge  (again!) 

We arrived here 16 years ago next month. I still recall an English couple we met - maybe in their 60’s - archetypal ping pong poms. At the time we were in our mid 30’s. I remember thinking the wife seemed sad and somewhat bitter. She hated being here and it clearly showed in their relationship. Husband loved Australia yet ....happened to say one day ‘ hmm after a while it gets a bit boring here’ His wife, in a fabulous East London accent, quick as a flash snapped back in a scathing attack -  “ Bored? in f##king paradise?” Highly amusing for us newbies at the time.  However, I find I’ve become that scathing, sarcastic  person who hates the drama, sensationalism of seven TV news and any other TV prog, can’t stand the crooked government, saddened by the over development and clearing of trees, all too often looking for shade and couldn’t stand walking in these months when it’s after 8am,  love the landscape yet hate the landscape.....It’s got that I all too often despise Australia and Australians. An awful way to live and I know it’s me that is the problem as I am wallowing in my own self pity. 

Anyway, ‘stuck in paradise’ - I understand and acknowledge people will say ‘just go’ but how can I ? Our two sons  are 18 and 20 and are out right ‘Australian’ My fears came true. I’d hoped to move back so they could start secondary school in the UK or Ireland- didn’t happen. Maybe start uni back over - didn’t happen. Wasted so much time looking into fees etc etc. and planning (just me planning this!) I’d be abandoning three people I love who are my life. I have started to feel jealous of my siblings who see each other and their grandchildren, who share the same gripes about the UK but appreciate and love the UK - their home, their history and their familiarity.

This sad resolve that I’m here until I shuffle off this mortal coil,  and it makes me bloomin miserable and angry. I didn’t think this would be my life. I never disliked the UK - as many others find -  spouse wanting ‘ a better life’ . I really miss my siblings, I regret not being near my mum in her latter years, I miss the landscape and buildings in England. I’ve even become obsessed with the thought that ‘ things would have been better if we’d migrated to Canada - nearer, northern hemisphere seasons etc’

This is another whinge - I know - and I do appreciate that it can seem self indulgent as there are thousands upon thousands of people experiencing awful lives for a myriad of reasons. No easy answer. I admire those who go back and leave family. I know I couldn’t ever do that. 

Thanks all. Thanks for the opportunity to (almost) anonymously have a heartfelt pouring out of mixed up feelings. 

I feel exactly the same. Came here even we had a great life in UK. I am sick of Aussie , ‘she be right!’ Or ‘No worries!’ Ignorance is bliss so they say but I am now prepared to go it alone as I am so homesick. I hate it here. 

[Quoll]

55 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Departure and arrival times seem to have the biggest impact for me. If the flight leaves at 6am, you're at the airport for 3 or 4am and already exhausted before you leave. If you arrive in the morning you have to fight to stay awake all day or sleep during the day, prolonging the jet lag. I prefer to leave in the evening, feel naturally tired and more likely to sleep on the plane, and try to arrive late afternoon/early evening so you have time to get a shower, get something to eat, possibly go for a walk and then pass out from exhaustion, forcing you into the new time zone. Bit groggy for a couple of days but otherwise fine.

My go to used to be QF31 and 32 - work all day, off to the airport, on the plane, asleep before wheels up and land early in the morning ready to start the day.  On the way home I have been known to land in Sydney, fly to Canberra and go straight into work.  Done that many times but 31 isnt as time friendly as it used to be

[Marisawright]

37 minutes ago, Quoll said:

My go to used to be QF31 and 32 - work all day, off to the airport, on the plane, asleep before wheels up and land early in the morning ready to start the day.  On the way home I have been known to land in Sydney, fly to Canberra and go straight into work.  Done that many times but 31 isnt as time friendly as it used to be

Ah, now if I could sleep on the plane, I'd do the same.  In fact years ago, when planes were less full and I could find three seats to stretch out on, I did sleep and could easily have handled the non-stop flight.  However I find it almost impossible to sleep sitting upright, so it's purgatory for me.

[Bulya]

4 hours ago, nuttychemist26@yahoo.co.uk said:

I feel exactly the same. Came here even we had a great life in UK. I am sick of Aussie , ‘she be right!’ Or ‘No worries!’ Ignorance is bliss so they say but I am now prepared to go it alone as I am so homesick. I hate it here. 

And how many states/territories have you lived in?

[Blue Flu]

9 hours ago, Marisawright said:

We always do a stopover but we don't even attempt to visit the city.  We book into an airport hotel.  If it's only five or six hours then we book into the cheap version, have a shower and a good sleep.  If it's longer, we book the swankier alternative, swim in the pool, have a treatment at the spa, maybe even use the gym, and of course have a long sleep in a nice comfy bed.  In both cases they're always very efficient, they will make sure you are awakened in good time for your flight. It makes an enormous difference and is worth every penny.

Yes sometimes do the same. Other times do the rather taxing cab into the centre (depending on duration) and having an evening on the town. The former has become more popular over recent years, but even done it direct a few times, (usually to Zurich so not quite as long) I guess for those that can get a bit of kip on a plane it doesn't matter a lot. Sadly I cannot no matter the duration. 

[Blue Flu]

4 hours ago, nuttychemist26@yahoo.co.uk said:

I feel exactly the same. Came here even we had a great life in UK. I am sick of Aussie , ‘she be right!’ Or ‘No worries!’ Ignorance is bliss so they say but I am now prepared to go it alone as I am so homesick. I hate it here. 

Thing being of course Aussies do worry rather a lot. Mental health is as big an issue, even bigger than similar western orientated countries. Lots of pressure here to keep up, conform to norms, put up with often poor work practice , before we get onto the increasingly out of reach, but essentials like affording a roof over ones head. 

I wonder how long you have been in OZ? Just as I wonder how easy will it be to recapture the great life left behind? Will it be even possible? 

[Robert Dyson]

On 07/11/2021 at 09:48, proud preston said:

At the time we were in our mid 30’s. I remember thinking the wife seemed sad and somewhat bitter. She hated being here and it clearly showed in their relationship. Husband loved Australia yet ....happened to say one day ‘ hmm after a while it gets a bit boring here’ His wife, in a fabulous East London accent, quick as a flash snapped back in a scathing attack -  “ Bored? in f##king paradise?” Highly amusing for us newbies at the time.  However, I find I’ve become that scathing, sarcastic  person who hates the drama, sensationalism of seven TV news and any other TV prog, can’t stand the crooked government, saddened by the over development and clearing of trees, all too often looking for shade and couldn’t stand walking in these months when it’s after 8am,  love the landscape yet hate the landscape.....It’s got that I all too often despise Australia and Australians. An awful way to live and I know it’s me that is the problem as I am wallowing in my own self pity. 

I think you need counselling before making any decisions, and you need patience and probable mental health support.  "Places" cannot make you happy or unhappy, they can amplify existing feelings.

The worst thing you can is flip back to the UK and then find out it does nothing to solve your problems, and may even make them worse.  We have posters on here who returned to the UK 15 years ago and they still cannot let go of their sense of failure.  Their problems have little to do with geography and culture, it's more deep-seated than that.  

You talk about crooked government....have you seen what's going on in the UK right now,  it is disgusting and sinister (see below).   

One of the biggest problems with going back somewhere is the expectation that it will be the same as when you left it.  The UK will not be like that, and neither are the people or their attitudes.  It is demonstrably getting worse by any number of measures. 

 

[proud preston]

@Robert Dyson thanks for your response. I’ve found that places contribute to my emotional well being. I feel a deep sense of connectedness when I’m back in the UK; particularity in Lancashire. Additionally, as mentioned, I never disliked the UK as many migrants did/do. I’m not searching for something that no longer exists. Each time I’ve gone back and heard the Lancashire accents I’ve always felt a comfort and a pang of jealousy because I moved away. I think many feel a connection to place. I love the light, the trees, the craggy mountains, the architecture .....

I despise the current government- greedy, no appreciation of past wisdom and in the same breath not forward thinking. Cutting down habitat, no value for native wildlife Looking after their own. 

[Robert Dyson]

6 minutes ago, proud preston said:

@Robert Dyson thanks for your response. I’ve found that places contribute to my emotional well being. I feel a deep sense of connectedness when I’m back in the UK; particularity in Lancashire. Additionally, as mentioned, I never disliked the UK as many migrants did/do. I’m not searching for something that no longer exists. Each time I’ve gone back and heard the Lancashire accents I’ve always felt a comfort and a pang of jealousy because I moved away. I think many feel a connection to place. I love the light, the trees, the craggy mountains, the architecture .....

I despise the current government- greedy, no appreciation of past wisdom and in the same breath not forward thinking. Cutting down habitat, no value for native wildlife Looking after their own. 

Everybody needs roots, there are still people over here who religiously watch Coronation Street, or Eastenders, or Emmerdale.  Same thing, humans are sentimental beings, it's what differentiates us and gorillas from the rest of the animal kingdom.

I just think making yourself a slave to sentiment isn't healthy, neither is relying on a Government to do the right thing.  One of the differences I notice in Australia is that it encourages people to take control of their own destiny, sometimes by tough love, sometimes by  giving more opportunity than you'd get elsewhere.  That generally sets up Australians for a very good life.  If you can do that, you can visit the UK as often as possible to deal with the nostalgia, but without thinking you need it to survive.

 

[Marisawright]

8 hours ago, Robert Dyson said:

I think you need counselling before making any decisions, and you need patience and probable mental health support.  "Places" cannot make you happy or unhappy, they can amplify existing feelings.

Sorry Robert, but this is patently not true. Places can't make you happy, and they can't make me happy, but for some people, they are everything.

I didn't believe it either, at first.  It seemed unbelievable to me that anyone could feel so attached to the place of their birth, that it would actually be more important than family or friends or anything else. But just because we don't feel it and find it very hard to put ourselves in their shoes, doesn't mean we can dismiss it. 

I've met too many such people now.  I'm convinced they exist, nd that their attachment to place is deep-seated and very, very real to them.  You may think they're mad, but it doesn't change how they feel.   Their homeland could be a garbage dump and they'll still feel happier there than on a luxury yacht.   

Living in another country just feels "wrong" to them, and if they're stuck there, they feel as though a part of their soul is missing.  I'm so glad it's not something I'm afflicted with.

[Robert Dyson]

19 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Sorry Robert, but this is patently not true. Places can't make you happy, and they can't make me happy, but for some people, they are everything.

I didn't believe it either, at first.  It seemed unbelievable to me that anyone could feel so attached to the place of their birth, that it would actually be more important than family or friends or anything else. But just because we don't feel it and find it very hard to put ourselves in their shoes, doesn't mean we can dismiss it. 

I've met too many such people now.  I'm convinced they exist, nd that their attachment to place is deep-seated and very, very real to them.  You may think they're mad, but it doesn't change how they feel.   Their homeland could be a garbage dump and they'll still feel happier there than on a luxury yacht.   

Living in another country just feels "wrong" to them, and if they're stuck there, they feel as though a part of their soul is missing.  I'm so glad it's not something I'm afflicted with.

An affliction is probably the right word. 

I remember Billy Connolly getting embroiled in the old stereotypical Scotsman talk and getting quite offended, even if he did used to tartan himself up.  The gist was yes, it has lovely parts that resonate through nostalgia, but the concept of defining his and his family's whole life perspective based on the lump of rock that he had no choice but to be born onto was utter madness, especially as that life had dealt him a shit hand.  Surely the idea was to be self-reliant and develop personal success, rather than tie yourself to something that would do nothing for you but you can then use as an excuse for anything that went wrong?

Although meeting Pamela Stephenson seemed to widen his horizons for the better, so perhaps it still does just come down to personal and family contentment offering a more realistic perspective on priorities? 

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Robert Dyson

[proud preston]

@Marisawright- thank you! I sometimes think of the affinity and connection First Nations have to the land and appreciate this idea of being connected to country. Time and time again I realise that it is the land and nature that I’m missing; flora/fauna etc - and this will never dissipate no matter how much counselling etc. I don’t see it as an affliction as like the idea (even though it pains me) of feeling deeply connected to a place. I thought I was a nomad as a teen and in my early 20’s and loved to travel ...but that was it - to travel not to settle. Often it is one partner who wants to migrate far more than the other. 

[Blue Flu]

34 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Sorry Robert, but this is patently not true. Places can't make you happy, and they can't make me happy, but for some people, they are everything.

I didn't believe it either, at first.  It seemed unbelievable to me that anyone could feel so attached to the place of their birth, that it would actually be more important than family or friends or anything else. But just because we don't feel it and find it very hard to put ourselves in their shoes, doesn't mean we can dismiss it. 

I've met too many such people now.  I'm convinced they exist, nd that their attachment to place is deep-seated and very, very real to them.  You may think they're mad, but it doesn't change how they feel.   Their homeland could be a garbage dump and they'll still feel happier there than on a luxury yacht.   

Living in another country just feels "wrong" to them, and if they're stuck there, they feel as though a part of their soul is missing.  I'm so glad it's not something I'm afflicted with.

It could but doesn't have to be country of birth. Some may well feel such attachment with an adopted country if that is where 'they fit'. or the soul feels at home.  Places certainly do or can make you happy. (or contrary/ hence situational depression) 

[Toots]

4 hours ago, proud preston said:

@Robert Dyson thanks for your response. I’ve found that places contribute to my emotional well being. I feel a deep sense of connectedness when I’m back in the UK; particularity in Lancashire. Additionally, as mentioned, I never disliked the UK as many migrants did/do. I’m not searching for something that no longer exists. Each time I’ve gone back and heard the Lancashire accents I’ve always felt a comfort and a pang of jealousy because I moved away. I think many feel a connection to place. I love the light, the trees, the craggy mountains, the architecture .....

I despise the current government- greedy, no appreciation of past wisdom and in the same breath not forward thinking. Cutting down habitat, no value for native wildlife Looking after their own. 

One of my oldest friends lives on a farm in Lancashire.  She and her husband come to Australia every couple of years to see their son who lives in Sydney.  She enjoys her visits but could never leave her home.  The last time they were in Sydney they came to see us in Devonport and she really liked Tassie   ...............  could see why we retired here. 

I was sitting by the river early this morning enjoying the sound of the oyster catchers and watching a tug boat tootling past on its way to the Bass Strait and I felt real contentment.  I am 11,000 miles from my home country but I am very happy here.  On the other hand I would be just as happy back in Scotland.

[Marisawright]

3 hours ago, Robert Dyson said:

An affliction is probably the right word. 

I remember Billy Connolly getting embroiled in the old stereotypical Scotsman talk....The gist was yes, it has lovely parts that resonate through nostalgia, but the concept of defining his and his family's whole life perspective based on the lump of rock that he had no choice but to be born onto was utter madness

What you're saying is, people who feel like that should pull themselves together, smarten up, realise how much better off they are and stop being silly and nostalgic.  

If they're just being nostalgic, or just thinking the grass is greener, I would agree.  But as I tried to point out, there are people for whom the attachment to home runs incredibly deep.  They CANNOT just decide to stop feeling that way.  The feeling runs so deep that they'll split up marriages and lose fortunes to get back home.  And when they do get home, far from discovering what a silly nostalgic mistake it was, they're ecstatic and feel it was all worth the pain. 

It may not be logical and I will never understand the feeling myself, but I've seen enough people like that, that I have to admit they exist and the yearning is very, very real for them.  

 

[Blue Flu]

13 hours ago, Robert Dyson said:

I think you need counselling before making any decisions, and you need patience and probable mental health support.  "Places" cannot make you happy or unhappy, they can amplify existing feelings.

The worst thing you can is flip back to the UK and then find out it does nothing to solve your problems, and may even make them worse.  We have posters on here who returned to the UK 15 years ago and they still cannot let go of their sense of failure.  Their problems have little to do with geography and culture, it's more deep-seated than that.  

You talk about crooked government....have you seen what's going on in the UK right now,  it is disgusting and sinister (see below).   

One of the biggest problems with going back somewhere is the expectation that it will be the same as when you left it.  The UK will not be like that, and neither are the people or their attitudes.  It is demonstrably getting worse by any number of measures. 

 

At least UK has people of the quality of James O'Brien, to expose such things. (always a favourite of mine) But there are others as well. A more robust political debate over there . Meanwhile here in Australia it tends to be right wing commentators and Murdoch press heavily entrenched in influencing opinion. The corruption and abuse of position too often seemingly goes unchallenged in Australia with a legacy of poor practice part of the landscape probably since settlement. 

[Blue Flu]

7 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

What you're saying is, people who feel like that should pull themselves together, smarten up, realise how much better off they are and stop being silly and nostalgic.  

If they're just being nostalgic, or just thinking the grass is greener, I would agree.  But as I tried to point out, there are people for whom the attachment to home runs incredibly deep.  They CANNOT just decide to stop feeling that way.  The feeling runs so deep that they'll split up marriages and lose fortunes to get back home.  And when they do get home, far from discovering what a silly nostalgic mistake it was, they're ecstatic and feel it was all worth the pain. 

It may not be logical and I will never understand the feeling myself, but I've seen enough people like that, that I have to admit they exist and the yearning is very, very real for them.  

 

It could be a miss of belonging as appears in the case of OP, but equally just the place they find themselves doesn't fit . I can understand both sentiments, though don't have to endure the former, for better or worse, which is probably why I found London so satisfactory back in the day. (all sorts were catered for from where ever and what ever) 

I guess sadly, too few realise the strains emigration can place on  a relationship and personal mental health or more important perhaps, how initial reasons for attraction can and do change over time. 

[Toots]

1 hour ago, Blue Flu said:

At least UK has people of the quality of James O'Brien, to expose such things. (always a favourite of mine) But there are others as well. A more robust political debate over there . Meanwhile here in Australia it tends to be right wing commentators and Murdoch press heavily entrenched in influencing opinion. The corruption and abuse of position too often seemingly goes unchallenged in Australia with a legacy of poor practice part of the landscape probably since settlement. 

Oh come on    ................  corruption is happening in most governments - probably in the UK too.  Goodness knows what it's like in America.

[Blue Flu]

3 hours ago, Toots said:

Oh come on    ................  corruption is happening in most governments - probably in the UK too.  Goodness knows what it's like in America.

Come on where exactly? What I wrote was there are people of the calibre of James O'Brien,  (often hated by the Right) that exposes deceit, fraudsters and lies. Obviously corruption goes on in UK. That's one of the subjects he and others attempt to bring to light. Take a look into the corruption in Australia over the decades. Horrific and dare I say on going. America is a massive country and of course corruption is rife in all walks of life as well. But don't lose focus on your own back yard. 

[Toots]

34 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

Come on where exactly? What I wrote was there are people of the calibre of James O'Brien,  (often hated by the Right) that exposes deceit, fraudsters and lies. Obviously corruption goes on in UK. That's one of the subjects he and others attempt to bring to light. Take a look into the corruption in Australia over the decades. Horrific and dare I say on going. America is a massive country and of course corruption is rife in all walks of life as well. But don't lose focus on your own back yard. 

Haven't the time of day for a lot of pollies and that's including the Australian ones however I wouldn't class corruption here as horrific.  That is reserved for the majority of African countries and the likes of Russia.  You do seem to have an absolute downer on Australia.  Sure it needs to drastically buck up its ideas but it's not horrific   ..........................  yet.

[Tulip1]

5 hours ago, Marisawright said:

What you're saying is, people who feel like that should pull themselves together, smarten up, realise how much better off they are and stop being silly and nostalgic.  

If they're just being nostalgic, or just thinking the grass is greener, I would agree.  But as I tried to point out, there are people for whom the attachment to home runs incredibly deep.  They CANNOT just decide to stop feeling that way.  The feeling runs so deep that they'll split up marriages and lose fortunes to get back home.  And when they do get home, far from discovering what a silly nostalgic mistake it was, they're ecstatic and feel it was all worth the pain. 

It may not be logical and I will never understand the feeling myself, but I've seen enough people like that, that I have to admit they exist and the yearning is very, very real for them.  

 

Great response and empathy shown to such people.  Some will just see such people as being silly and aren’t capable of being understanding and empathic to their deep feelings.  

[proud preston]

@Toots - heartening to read your friends from Lancashire manage to live their life there and still see their son. It can be done I suppose. 

[Marisawright]

11 hours ago, proud preston said:

 I sometimes think of the affinity and connection First Nations have to the land and appreciate this idea of being connected to country..... I don’t see it as an affliction as like the idea (even though it pains me) of feeling deeply connected to a place. 

I think it's both a blessing and a curse.  In some ways I envy people who feel deeply attached to a place, because it must be nice to have such a strong feeling of belonging.   It only becomes a problem when you try to move away from the place where you belong. 

It's true that no amount of counselling is going to change how you feel. That's not why we're suggesting counselling.  Given that you're stuck with the situation, counselling CAN help you deal with the heartache.

[Blue Flu]

17 hours ago, Toots said:

Haven't the time of day for a lot of pollies and that's including the Australian ones however I wouldn't class corruption here as horrific.  That is reserved for the majority of African countries and the likes of Russia.  You do seem to have an absolute downer on Australia.  Sure it needs to drastically buck up its ideas but it's not horrific   ..........................  yet.

I would for simple reason it flies under the radar and worse not taken to task anywhere near enough. African corruption is another level. It is well known and fully understood and expected by those living in those countries. I' m not about to reveal on line further reasons for my conclusions which does impact me but it is a prime reason I'm wanting out. I'd suggest you may share some of the gloom possibly as well. 

 

[Toots]

14 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

I would for simple reason it flies under the radar and worse not taken to task anywhere near enough. African corruption is another level. It is well known and fully understood and expected by those living in those countries. I' m not about to reveal on line further reasons for my conclusions which does impact me but it is a prime reason I'm wanting out. I'd suggest you may share some of the gloom possibly as well. 

 

I've just been reading that organised and transnational criminal gangs see Australia as a honey pot and are laundering up to $50 billion a year through unregulated "gate-keeper professionals" such as lawyers, accountants and real estate agents.  Crooks are buying luxury cars, yachts, art, jewellery and cash-based businesses to wash their dirty money a Senate inquiry has been told.

Apparently the Australian government has repeatedly failed to take the necessary actions to meet the Financial Action Taskforce recommendations and lacked the political will and resolve to address and to take action.  

The inquiry was told Australia was seen as an attractive destination for foreign proceeds from the Asia-Pacific as well as Africa and Russia.

Here's me who gets a bit anxious at tax time ensuring all is as it should be.  What a joke.