Border opening now mid 2022

[Tulip1]

15 hours ago, Parley said:

One of the positive cases in Victoria, a 90 year old, is fully vaccinated. and some others have had one dose. The 90 year old although tested positive is asymptomatic supposedly.

So being vaccinated may not stop you getting covid at all but may stop you getting very sick. And you may still be able to transmit it to others if you test positive.

Still some unknowns at least to me.

That’s the important thing many don’t realise.  For example, the AZ is only about 60% effective from stopping you get the Indian variant which doesn’t sound great although in line with most flu jabs. But,  it’s effectiveness is far greater as should you get Covid after you’ve had both jabs you are unlikely to get very ill.  It’s protection from you having severe Covid is very much reduced, far more so than 60%.  As of a few days ago in the uk there were 126 people in hospital with Covid.  Of those 126, over 80 were unvaccinated and most others had only received one dose of vaccine.  Only 3 people out of 126 had received both jabs.  The facts are that having both jabs gives you incredible protection.  There are some like the women you mention that have had both jabs and they are testing positive. Most don’t even know they have it or have very mild symptoms.  A few bad ones as in the 3 mentioned above but it’s very clear that having both jabs gives you an incredible protection from serious illness or death, probably way up into the 90’s in terms of a percentage even if only at 60% from not actually getting it.  

[Tulip1]

8 hours ago, Dusty Plains said:

Frankly, I cannot see the logic in that statement.  I have no problem whatsoever with borders remaining closed. 10 years? Not a problem. Bring it on.

How can closed borders somehow suggest that "Covid will never go away" as a result of that particular strategy? By itself, possibly, but it still makes sense given that Australia's closed borders, both continental and state have been effective. Now however, we are no longer relegated within the predisposition of single-tactic strategy. We have a dual-pronged strategy namely, closed borders ( primary Covid strategy currently)  and vaccination ( secondary strategy as current).  My prediction is that both strategies will prevail however, and as time goes on, and nominally by mid 2020,  vaccination will have become by then, the primary repulse against Covid-19. Yet closed borders must remain as the back up arrangement. 

I have an upcoming appointment with my federal member of parliament, here in the offices of the federal electorate of Macquarie in NSW, whose office is only 10 minutes drive away.  On the basis that I have six grandchildren between the ages of 3 months and ten years I am concerned for them. Australia is being treated like a a bus station, or as a transit lounge for people exercising their rights as dual-citizens and seeking to avoid Covid-19 by returning "home".

They are already "home", and home is not Australia. I mean. who can blame them,? Yet I will be raising the fact that on the basis that the Delta Strain (nee Indian Strain) has come into Victoria, we are allowing dual-citizens to wander back into Australia like Brown's Cows as they did ten years ago. I will be clearly indicating that all dual-citizenship arrangements, which were never imagined to acquaint with Covid-19, be summarily suspended.   

  

Your concerns for your grandchildren are understandable but probably over cautious to say the least.  Perhaps speak to a specialist about statistics as the chances of children being badly effected by Covid is negligible.  They probably stand more chance of ending up in hospital falling off a pony or playing football.  I expect your member of parliament will politely seem interested but they’ll probably know the grandkids will be at more risk on the school residential trip. 

[SWMOY04]

13 hours ago, Nemesis said:

SO you actively propose stripping Australian citizenship from people who are dual, thus forcing us all to leave the country as we would no longer have any legal right to live here?

I had the same discussion with a colleague recently, he is well known at work for being a miserable racist cantankerous old twit. Never thought I would hear it from someone who should understand migration, visas and the need for the security of citizenship.

Terrell Owens said "...if it smells like a rat..."

[Parley]

14 hours ago, Nemesis said:

SO you actively propose stripping Australian citizenship from people who are dual, thus forcing us all to leave the country as we would no longer have any legal right to live here?

I had the same discussion with a colleague recently, he is well known at work for being a miserable racist cantankerous old twit. Never thought I would hear it from someone who should understand migration, visas and the need for the security of citizenship.

It will never happen so you don't need to worry about that. That would really be using the proverbial sledgehammer to crack a nut.

The travel exemption process would achieve the same aim of restricting travel in a dangerous time unless there is exceptional reason to travel.

But even hypothetically if you had to choose one of your citizenships, I'm sure you would stay here and keep your Australian Citizenship, rather than give it up and leave permanently.

As I said, a ridiculous suggestion from Dusty on this occasion. I just hope they don't laugh at him.

[Marisawright]

8 minutes ago, Parley said:

But even hypothetically if you had to choose one of your citizenships, I'm sure you would stay here and keep your Australian Citizenship, rather than give it up and leave permanently.

As I said, a ridiculous suggestion from Dusty on this occasion. I just hope they don't laugh at him.

It's an interesting question.  I originally got Aussie citizenship for purely practical reasons, wanting to ensure I didn't get locked out if I had to go home and look after aged parents.  But these days if they forced me to choose, I'd choose my Australian citizenship without hesitation.   I wonder whether that would be true for all Pomsinoz members though.

[ramot]

6 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

It's an interesting question.  I originally got Aussie citizenship for purely practical reasons, wanting to ensure I didn't get locked out if I had to go home and look after aged parents.  But these days if they forced me to choose, I'd choose my Australian citizenship without hesitation.   I wonder whether that would be true for all Pomsinoz members though.

As you say Marisa an interesting question. I think on balance I would also choose Australian citizenship. It would be hard to relinquish my British citizenship, but on balance although my son and grandsons are in England, I have almost no other relations there, and here I have 2 of my children and a large extended family who moved from Africa, and we see plenty of each other. My life is now established here in Australia. 

[rtritudr]

23 hours ago, newjez said:

Because if you vaccinate those most vulnerable you dramatically reduce in hospital and deaths.

It's not as simple as that though.  If Melbourne achieved that level of vaccination today, even if its own healthcare system won't be overwhelmed by the virus, it'll still have to be locked down because if the virus is circulating at all in the city, then its people will be barred from entering all the other states in Australia, as well as NZ.

Unless the entire travel bubble has achieved herd immunity, no single part of it can abandon the zero-Covid strategy.  Either that or the bubble will burst.

[Marisawright]

3 hours ago, rtritudr said:

It's not as simple as that though.  If Melbourne achieved that level of vaccination today, even if its own healthcare system won't be overwhelmed by the virus, it'll still have to be locked down because if the virus is circulating at all in the city, then its people will be barred from entering all the other states in Australia, as well as NZ.

Unless the entire travel bubble has achieved herd immunity, no single part of it can abandon the zero-Covid strategy.  Either that or the bubble will burst.

But no one is suggesting that just Melbourne would achieve that level of vaccination and the rest of the country wouldn't. Are they?

Edited June 8, 2021 by Marisawright

[Nemesis]

7 hours ago, Parley said:

It will never happen so you don't need to worry about that. That would really be using the proverbial sledgehammer to crack a nut.

The travel exemption process would achieve the same aim of restricting travel in a dangerous time unless there is exceptional reason to travel.

But even hypothetically if you had to choose one of your citizenships, I'm sure you would stay here and keep your Australian Citizenship, rather than give it up and leave permanently.

As I said, a ridiculous suggestion from Dusty on this occasion. I just hope they don't laugh at him.

Actually no, I would surrender the Australian one (as I plan to do when I retire and go home). I would never give up my British citizenship.

However, I do agree with you, its never likely to happen. 

[psuwara]

Got my first vaccine dose in Russia two weeks ago! Another week before the next dose! 

Good to see the light at the end of the tunnel! Our July 12th is locked in! Fingers crossed lol.

[psuwara]

On 08/06/2021 at 11:27, Nemesis said:

Actually no, I would surrender the Australian one (as I plan to do when I retire and go home). I would never give up my British citizenship.

However, I do agree with you, its never likely to happen. 

Indeed, why live in an ex penal colony, when you could live in an ex roman province.

Why go to Australia anyway, sounds like you'd rather just be in Britain? Can get a tourist VISA mate.

Edited June 10, 2021 by psuwara
historical accuracy

[psuwara]

On 08/06/2021 at 08:52, Marisawright said:

But no one is suggesting that just Melbourne would achieve that level of vaccination and the rest of the country wouldn't. Are they?

It's beyond belief just how behind Australia is in the vaccination process. Really beyond belief. It's like they don't want international borders and trade open. 

I cannot think of ONE reason why Australia wants to keep borders closed, with Tourism and Education being such an important aspect of the Australian economic output. 

 

The Aussie Vaccine Disaster in detail -> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-28/untangling-australia-s-covid-vaccine-rollout-timetable/100156720

Edited June 10, 2021 by psuwara

[nomadiccarpenter]

14 hours ago, psuwara said:

 It's like they don't want international borders and trade open. 

I cannot think of ONE reason why Australia wants to keep borders closed, with Tourism and Education being such an important aspect of the Australian economic output. 

 

The Aussie Vaccine Disaster in detail -> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-28/untangling-australia-s-covid-vaccine-rollout-timetable/100156720

 There are a few people in power who have a fantasy of keeping them closed forever but reality will prevail.

[Nemesis]

On 10/06/2021 at 18:34, psuwara said:

Indeed, why live in an ex penal colony, when you could live in an ex roman province.

Why go to Australia anyway, sounds like you'd rather just be in Britain? Can get a tourist VISA mate.

I married an Australian. Now divorced. 

[Jon the Hat]

On 10/06/2021 at 09:38, psuwara said:

It's beyond belief just how behind Australia is in the vaccination process. Really beyond belief. It's like they don't want international borders and trade open. 

I cannot think of ONE reason why Australia wants to keep borders closed, with Tourism and Education being such an important aspect of the Australian economic output. 

The Aussie Vaccine Disaster in detail -> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-28/untangling-australia-s-covid-vaccine-rollout-timetable/100156720

Even the first goal of 80k a week is pretty feeble.  The centre we got ours in in West Sussex was doing 12-14k a week.  One sports hall.

[Marisawright]

7 hours ago, Nemesis said:

I married an Australian. Now divorced. 

What keeps you in Oz then?

[Nemesis]

41 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

What keeps you in Oz then?

Money. 

I am too old and have too many medical issues to get a new job with any liveable salary if I give up my present contract. Once I can access my pension and my super, thus giving me something to live on, I shall go home (assuming the government lets me!) but with no property or assets I simply don't have anything to live on if I go home now. 

[rtritudr]

Perhaps the border won't be fully open even in 2022:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/we-have-to-work-with-the-reality-uniform-approach-to-quarantine-border-restrictions-unlikely-experts-say-20210625-p584by.html

Australian Medical Association president Omar Khorshid welcomed the news, but said more needed to be done.

 

“We’d like to see facilities in each state and territory in particular where there are international arrivals. We don’t know how long we’re going to be battling COVID-19 but it’s going to be for years,” he said.

[nomadiccarpenter]

6 hours ago, rtritudr said:

Perhaps the border won't be fully open even in 2022:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/we-have-to-work-with-the-reality-uniform-approach-to-quarantine-border-restrictions-unlikely-experts-say-20210625-p584by.html

Australian Medical Association president Omar Khorshid welcomed the news, but said more needed to be done.

 

“We’d like to see facilities in each state and territory in particular where there are international arrivals. We don’t know how long we’re going to be battling COVID-19 but it’s going to be for years,” he said.

This pandemic will be behind us by the time they get these opened, or at the very least enough people will be vaccinated between large countries.

[Peach]

TBH, reduced contact with my family was an expected outcome of moving to the other side of the world - I don't quite see why some folk are so surprised by it. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jun/27/unnecessarily-cruel-how-australias-closed-border-is-forcing-migrants-to-leave-permanently

Edited June 26, 2021 by Peach

[Toots]

4 hours ago, Peach said:

TBH, reduced contact with my family was an expected outcome of moving to the other side of the world - I don't quite see why some folk are so surprised by it. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jun/27/unnecessarily-cruel-how-australias-closed-border-is-forcing-migrants-to-leave-permanently

In the article, the woman states "family is everything" meaning family in the UK.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, if family and friends in the UK are so very important and you can't manage without them for a number of years   ........................  do not emigrate.

[Wanderer Returns]

4 hours ago, Peach said:

TBH, reduced contact with my family was an expected outcome of moving to the other side of the world - I don't quite see why some folk are so surprised by it. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jun/27/unnecessarily-cruel-how-australias-closed-border-is-forcing-migrants-to-leave-permanently

 

35 minutes ago, Toots said:

In the article, the woman states "family is everything" meaning family in the UK.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, if family and friends in the UK are so very important and you can't manage without them for a number of years   ........................  do not emigrate.

I've read a number of these articles over recent months and a common misconception of those interviewed is believing that Australia was only ever '24 hours away from family, friends and loved ones'. Whilst that's how long it takes to fly from point A to point B (assuming a good connection), it's an unrealistic notion. For most migrants, family and work commitments mean that are committed to a life in Australia, which they can't put down at the drop of a hat. There's also the cost - a couple of thousand dollars just for the return flight (pre-covid). Even if you have the money there's getting the time off work, as holidays here are not as generous as they are in the UK.

The left-wing media just like to look down on Australia. The BBC are the worst - nearly every article has a negative connotation.

[Marisawright]

11 minutes ago, Wanderer Returns said:

I've read a number of these articles over recent months and a common misconception of those interviewed is believing that Australia was only ever '24 hours away from family, friends and loved ones'. Whilst that's how long it takes to fly from point A to point B (assuming a good connection), it's an unrealistic notion. For most migrants, family and work commitments mean that are committed to a life in Australia, which they can't put down at the drop of a hat. There's also the cost - a couple of thousand dollars just for the return flight (pre-covid). Even if you have the money there's getting the time off work, as holidays here are not as generous as they are in the UK.

My thoughts exactly.  But there does seem to be a new class of migrants who think nothing of flying back to the UK every year.   Maybe it's part of an overall change in how overseas holidays are viewed nowadays, almost as essentials rather than luxuries.  I was surprised by how many ordinary wage-earners in the UK have two overseas holidays a year, which (even if they're doing it cheaply), means they're spending a few thousand pounds on holidays every year.  So if they migrate to Australia, they use that same money to fly home and then they get cheap accommodation with the folks, and it's no different.

A far cry from when I was growing up and holidays was a fortnight in a caravan at Arisaig!  

[Wanderer Returns]

3 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

A far cry from when I was growing up and holidays was a fortnight in a caravan at Arisaig!  

We had a static caravan in Derbyshire, which we went to every Easter and during the half-term breaks. One year we went to it over the summer holidays and it rained for an entire fortnight, so it was camping trips in Europe after that - a big improvement!

[rtritudr]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Returns said:

The left-wing media just like to look down on Australia. The BBC are the worst - nearly every article has a negative connotation.

I'm detecting more of a fundamental lack of understanding of the situation in Australia, whether it's the left wing media or the right wing media in the UK.  Even Australian journalists posted in the UK have a completely different mindset when it comes to Covid compared to local journalists back home.