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Karl D

Border opening now mid 2022

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Hi all,

I have two daughters and a grandson in NSW, the last time I saw them was November 2019. Due to CV I have been rebooking my flight ticket since then. Six changes so far.

I do scan the Aus Gov website for updates and was hoping that we could come the end of this year. Which until today was dashed when I read that Scott Morrison says it’s not likely. What is being said in local media there? Is is really likely 2022?

Give me some hope please!

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1 hour ago, Karl D said:

Hi all,

I have two daughters and a grandson in NSW, the last time I saw them was November 2019. Due to CV I have been rebooking my flight ticket since then. Six changes so far.

I do scan the Aus Gov website for updates and was hoping that we could come the end of this year. Which until today was dashed when I read that Scott Morrison says it’s not likely. What is being said in local media there? Is is really likely 2022?

Give me some hope please!

That’s what they’re saying.  I believe it’s mud 2022.  Lots of us are patiently waiting.

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26 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

That’s what they’re saying.  I believe it’s mud 2022.  Lots of us are patiently waiting.

That should say mid 2022.  You’re one of the lucky ones, at least you got a visit in just before Covid. I was due to fly there last spring and it was cancelled. It’s been a few years since I’ve seen my family now. Nothing we can do but carry on life as usual.  

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Mid-2022 was the date/estimate stated as part of the budget announcements last week. So media are just repeating that same thing, as that's the only source of information on the subject, at the moment. 

I prefer my 'damp finger in the air' approach to figure out what will happen with travel...  Very frustrating but nothing else much can be done 😩


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There is a fair amount of pressure on ScoMo to be more definitive but, as usual, he leaves us all hanging. With evidence coming out of the US and UK that the vaccines are showing signs of restricting onward infections I suspect he may well have to cave in to the travel/education/cheap labour forces stacking up against him. I hope he does, I haven't seen my GF for 15 months!

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23 hours ago, Graham Fletcher said:

There is a fair amount of pressure on ScoMo to be more definitive but, as usual, he leaves us all hanging. With evidence coming out of the US and UK that the vaccines are showing signs of restricting onward infections I suspect he may well have to cave in to the travel/education/cheap labour forces stacking up against him. I hope he does, I haven't seen my GF for 15 months!

Scomo will take on board what the medical experts tell him and make decisions based on that. Each state will carry on doing the same thing. 

Nobody's trying to be awkward and they say things like "mid 2022" because their guess is as good as mine or yours. Imagine if Scomo caved and agreed to open borders mid this year and we had a massive outbreak, the press would rip him and his government to shreds. The oppostion would jump on board too of course, even though they try and criticise every move. 

SBS and ABC must be really pissed that Scomo still has about 80% support.

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On 18/05/2021 at 15:00, Paul1Perth said:

Scomo will take on board what the medical experts tell him and make decisions based on that. Each state will carry on doing the same thing. 

Nobody's trying to be awkward and they say things like "mid 2022" because their guess is as good as mine or yours. Imagine if Scomo caved and agreed to open borders mid this year and we had a massive outbreak, the press would rip him and his government to shreds. The oppostion would jump on board too of course, even though they try and criticise every move. 

SBS and ABC must be really pissed that Scomo still has about 80% support.

As shown today in Victoria, cases are inevitable. Being isolationist is just going to damage us economically and there will still be outbreaks on a regular basis. Putting a timetable on reopening may spur people to get vaccinated - far too many people are saying they aren't getting the jabs because there is no need in Australia, which in term continues to slow down the reopening. it's a vicious circle

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11 minutes ago, Graham Fletcher said:

 far too many people are saying they aren't getting the jabs because there is no need in Australia, 

I am against the concept of "cases are inevitable, just open the borders already",  HOWEVER I agree that people who say,  "I dont need the vaccine because there's no Covid in Australia" are breathtakingly stupid.  They seem to think that Covid is going to burn itself out overseas and just disappear, which ain't gonna happen.

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

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11 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I am against the concept of "cases are inevitable, just open the borders already",  HOWEVER I agree that people who say,  "I dont need the vaccine because there's no Covid in Australia" are breathtakingly stupid.  They seem to think that Covid is going to burn itself out overseas and just disappear, which ain't gonna happen.

They banked on a vaccine being the route out of isolation, and it can be, but only if uptake is high enough.


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14 hours ago, Graham Fletcher said:

As shown today in Victoria, cases are inevitable. Being isolationist is just going to damage us economically and there will still be outbreaks on a regular basis. Putting a timetable on reopening may spur people to get vaccinated - far too many people are saying they aren't getting the jabs because there is no need in Australia, which in term continues to slow down the reopening. it's a vicious circle

Closing borders/isolating has worked extremely well for Australia and it's economy to this point, but I agree a timetable for reopening (even a very cautious timetable) might encourage people to get the vaccine with more urgency. I know a lot of people who are eligible,  pro vaccination, and intend to get vaccinated, but who just haven't bothered to get it yet because they feel there's no rush.

I think there's a messaging issue. Up to this point it's all been about keeping covid out (which I agree with and which has worked well) and the message has been to avoid exposure, wash hands, wear masks etc. But into the future we'll all be exposed to covid, every one of us, and it's then about how safe we are when the exposure comes and the message needs to shift toward that.

I think there needs to be a conversation about how and when borders might open to encourage higher vaccine uptake, with incentives around the ability to travel overseas once enough people are vaccinated.

That's not going to happen any time soon, but at least shifting the conversation and public perception of the issue might be a good first step.

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:evilface_frowning_s

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I’m all for safe opening, but what I don’t understand is why the government there doesn’t say something using agreed metrics like;

X= Vaccine uptake by Australians at an agreed %

Y= state cases less than 5 a day

Z= Track and Trace up and running

“provided conditions X/Y/Z are met then we will allow incoming tourist visitors from low case / high vaccine populations with proven vaccinations / negative PCR tests prior to travel and a test on arrival  ON XX/XX/XXXX”

that would help Australia’s businesses plan and us travellers surely.

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2 hours ago, Karl D said:

I’m all for safe opening, but what I don’t understand is why the government there doesn’t say something using agreed metrics like;

X= Vaccine uptake by Australians at an agreed %

Y= state cases less than 5 a day

Z= Track and Trace up and running

“provided conditions X/Y/Z are met then we will allow incoming tourist visitors from low case / high vaccine populations with proven vaccinations / negative PCR tests prior to travel and a test on arrival  ON XX/XX/XXXX”

that would help Australia’s businesses plan and us travellers surely.

I think they need to get their own citizens back before tourists arrive.  I’m waiting to go just as you are but it’s only right that citizens can get back home first.  Can you imagine being stuck overseas waiting to get back and loads of holiday makers take up your space.  Much as I wish it was different, I completely understand we have to wait at the back of the queue.  We have to be patient, it will happen. 

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That’s sort of what I’m saying.

State the criteria to be met

that would allow for open borders and put a date on it.

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Recent surveys have shown that the majority of Aussies don't want the borders opened and I know that asking around my workplace my Aussie colleagues are keen to see the borders remaining shut until the risks are lowered. 

 I do recall reading an article a few weeks ago where Scott Morrison (IRRC?) stated that once everyone has been offered the opportunity to have a vaccine then they will start the process of opening the borders. 

Economically we are doing far better than if we had allowed covid to run rampant. Business is as normal in the country, domestic tourism is booming and our exports continue to flow. Cheap labour isn't as readily available, which means salaries need to go up (simple supply and demand). 

Personally I find it tough, I'm not sure when my children will see their grandparents again, but I also have lost several friends to COVID in the UK and appreciate that we are living in a wonderful little bubble. My nieces and nephews in the UK lost over a year of proper education, domestic violence is through the roof and the elderly have been stuck in doors with very little social life. 

 Also, how many deaths is okay? We seem to have become immune to all of that. "I want to travel and it's okay, only a small number of people will die..." isn't humane. 

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Posted (edited)

We do have open borders with New Zealand (currently on pause in Melbourne due to Vic outbreak).

Open borders relies on other countries being under control with their covid.

Australia has been pretty much covid free. We won't risk that for other countries that have rampaging covid.

But if UK gets covid to extremely low levels then we would have a reciprocal travel bubble with them too. So if there is any blame it is with your own country's management of covid.

Edited by Parley
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I want it all, and I want it now.

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On 26/05/2021 at 08:07, Graham Fletcher said:

As shown today in Victoria, cases are inevitable. Being isolationist is just going to damage us economically and there will still be outbreaks on a regular basis. Putting a timetable on reopening may spur people to get vaccinated - far too many people are saying they aren't getting the jabs because there is no need in Australia, which in term continues to slow down the reopening. it's a vicious circle

Our economy is in a much better state than any other country I can think of and that's because we locked down and continue to try and be covid free.

Trying to put a timetable on re-opening is folly as, as you say, outbreaks can't be predicted and decisions have to be made on the fly.

I'm in the age bracket that can get the vaccine and amongst the people I know either people have had it or they are booked to have it. They're doing it because they want to travel and feel safe. When I rang the guy told me I had to book. When I went last Sunday there was a big sign for walkins welcome. There was plenty of vaccine, lots of nurses, could have been a lot busier I guess. There was a guy who was a walk in who's wife had refused to have it, so there's the odd person. Not many though in my experience, most people can't wait.

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On 17/05/2021 at 02:57, Karl D said:

Hi all,

I have two daughters and a grandson in NSW, the last time I saw them was November 2019. Due to CV I have been rebooking my flight ticket since then. Six changes so far.

I do scan the Aus Gov website for updates and was hoping that we could come the end of this year. Which until today was dashed when I read that Scott Morrison says it’s not likely. What is being said in local media there? Is is really likely 2022?

Give me some hope please!

Likely 2022 but if you have your vaccine and the UK really gets on top of it then things could change quickly. I'm sure the government here would love a travel bubble with the UK. Now you're out of the EU it's a big chance that you could keep your borders much more sucure than the EU. Can't see open travel coming from there for a long time yet.

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7 hours ago, CaptainR said:

Recent surveys have shown that the majority of Aussies don't want the borders opened and I know that asking around my workplace my Aussie colleagues are keen to see the borders remaining shut until the risks are lowered. 

 I do recall reading an article a few weeks ago where Scott Morrison (IRRC?) stated that once everyone has been offered the opportunity to have a vaccine then they will start the process of opening the borders. 

Economically we are doing far better than if we had allowed covid to run rampant. Business is as normal in the country, domestic tourism is booming and our exports continue to flow. Cheap labour isn't as readily available, which means salaries need to go up (simple supply and demand). 

Personally I find it tough, I'm not sure when my children will see their grandparents again, but I also have lost several friends to COVID in the UK and appreciate that we are living in a wonderful little bubble. My nieces and nephews in the UK lost over a year of proper education, domestic violence is through the roof and the elderly have been stuck in doors with very little social life. 

 Also, how many deaths is okay? We seem to have become immune to all of that. "I want to travel and it's okay, only a small number of people will die..." isn't humane. 

You have been very unlucky to have lost several friends to Covid, especially given you don’t sound very elderly. I haven’t lost one friend and I actually can’t think of any friend that’s lost a friend. Of course such people are out there but to have lost several is very unlucky.  Kids didn’t lose over a year of proper education although did have to learn from home for quite sometime. Very structured zoom lessons daily which whilst isn’t the same as the fun of running around playing with your friends at break time, it’s certainly not loss of education. Many kids are homeschooled for their entire childhood.  A lot to do with the parents I think. I have a friend with a 9 year old. She ensured structured learning, making sure he was on all school zoom calls and she also did some extra lessons and he thrived. I have a distant family member who’s 13 year spent much of the time lying in bed until lunchtime and then playing on the PlayStation, refusing to do the learning set by the school. I’m not quite sure how he managed to refuse, clearly the wrong person in charge in their house as that PlayStation controller would have disappeared very quickly in my house if he was mine. I agree it wasn’t great on kids to have their school life disputed but it was difficult times and there’s nothing that can be done about that. They are all back at school now and it’s nice to see kids walking to school chatting and laughing. Your comment of it’s ok to say a small number of people will die is inhuman is a tricky one as we would all immediately think that. But, Covid isn’t going away and something Chris Whitty said on a Downing Street update is very true. It is something that we will have to learn to live with. He quoted an example of about 7000 people in the U.K. die of flu every year.  Not nice but people do just accept that.  We all know flu kills people but we don’t walk around in sadness over it. It’s just a fact and Covid will be too. Of course numbers need to be low but it’s here to stay. He said something which is very true and that it’s ok to accept a certain will die of flu, Covid and many other things because the fact is people do die. So, perhaps it’s not inhumane to learn to accept that Covid is here and we have to live with that, just as we live will flu deaths and don’t batter an eyelid over them. 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Parley said:

We do have open borders with New Zealand (currently on pause in Melbourne due to Vic outbreak).

Open borders relies on other countries being under control with their covid.

Australia has been pretty much covid free. We won't risk that for other countries that have rampaging covid.

But if UK gets covid to extremely low levels then we would have a reciprocal travel bubble with them too. So if there is any blame it is with your own country's management of covid.

Cases seem to be increasing in the UK, while hospitalisation and deaths are dropping - which is exactly what should happen with an increasingly vaccinated country that hasn’t yet achieved herd immunity.

The difficulty having a travel bubble with the Uk in the near future is that Covid is still spreading over there and we would be exposing our unvaccinated Australian population to high levels of risk. More urgency with the Australian vaccination program is the only road out of this, eventually.

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1 hour ago, MacGyver said:

Cases seem to be increasing in the UK, while hospitalisation and deaths are dropping - which is exactly what should happen with an increasingly vaccinated country that hasn’t yet achieved herd immunity.

The difficulty having a travel bubble with the Uk in the near future is that Covid is still spreading over there and we would be exposing our unvaccinated Australian population to high levels of risk. More urgency with the Australian vaccination program is the only road out of this, eventually.

Hospital and deaths rising for the past two days.

Cases up to 3500 today.

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Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, newjez said:

Hospital and deaths rising for the past two days.

Cases up to 3500 today.

There has been a rise but these are mainly in areas of low vaccination uptake.  An average of 8 deaths a day over the last 7 days.  As the professor on the Downing Street update said today, almost all those that have died were elderly, unvaccinated people.  There are 49 in Bolton hospital with Covid, only 5 of them have been vaccinated.  It shows that whilst not 100%, the vaccine is so necessary and a game changer.  Any death is bad a thing but those that chose not to get the vaccine chose to take the risk.  We are very lucky to live in a country that have offered free vaccination to help save our lives.  People continue to catch it and die unnecessary.  I find their decision to risk their lives mind boggling.  

Edited by Tulip1

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11 hours ago, MacGyver said:

Cases seem to be increasing in the UK, while hospitalisation and deaths are dropping - which is exactly what should happen with an increasingly vaccinated country that hasn’t yet achieved herd immunity.

The difficulty having a travel bubble with the Uk in the near future is that Covid is still spreading over there and we would be exposing our unvaccinated Australian population to high levels of risk. More urgency with the Australian vaccination program is the only road out of this, eventually.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/27/uk-covid-cases-india-variant-matt-hancock-three-quarters

Hospitalisations are already on the rise in some areas of the UK as the majority of UK Covid cases are now of the Indian variant.  This despite India being on the red list of countries and all travellers from there required to quarantine in a hotel for 10 days.

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4 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

There has been a rise but these are mainly in areas of low vaccination uptake.  An average of 8 deaths a day over the last 7 days.  As the professor on the Downing Street update said today, almost all those that have died were elderly, unvaccinated people.  There are 49 in Bolton hospital with Covid, only 5 of them have been vaccinated.  It shows that whilst not 100%, the vaccine is so necessary and a game changer.  Any death is bad a thing but those that chose not to get the vaccine chose to take the risk.  We are very lucky to live in a country that have offered free vaccination to help save our lives.  People continue to catch it and die unnecessary.  I find their decision to risk their lives mind boggling.  

It's almost like they don't know how to talk to ethnic groups.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19roundup/2020-03-26&ved=2ahUKEwjs7bu6quvwAhUKMewKHYL5BJkQFjAAegQIBRAC&usg=AOvVaw3ALL55HrQ1hS0xq05_sZBO&cshid=1622170831776


Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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1 hour ago, rtritudr said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/27/uk-covid-cases-india-variant-matt-hancock-three-quarters

Hospitalisations are already on the rise in some areas of the UK as the majority of UK Covid cases are now of the Indian variant.  This despite India being on the red list of countries and all travellers from there required to quarantine in a hotel for 10 days.

I think the hospitalisation rising in the UK in certain areas is more to do with the high ethnic population in those areas and the non take up vaccinations . 

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On 27/05/2021 at 12:27, Paul1Perth said:

Our economy is in a much better state than any other country I can think of and that's because we locked down and continue to try and be covid free.

Trying to put a timetable on re-opening is folly as, as you say, outbreaks can't be predicted and decisions have to be made on the fly.

I'm in the age bracket that can get the vaccine and amongst the people I know either people have had it or they are booked to have it. They're doing it because they want to travel and feel safe. When I rang the guy told me I had to book. When I went last Sunday there was a big sign for walkins welcome. There was plenty of vaccine, lots of nurses, could have been a lot busier I guess. There was a guy who was a walk in who's wife had refused to have it, so there's the odd person. Not many though in my experience, most people can't wait.

According to Ernst Young, keeping the borders closed is costing the Australian economy over $7 billion a month!

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