Quality of life for kids

[Marisawright]

3 hours ago, CaptainR said:

The sad part is when people make a decision based on the emotions on one selfish parent who 'is lonely/misses family' without putting their children's wellbeing at the forefront. 

You usually talk a lot of sense, CaptainR, and most of this post is no exception.

However, I don't think it's appropriate to insult everyone who "is lonely/misses family" by calling them selfish. Do you think they should be able to pull themselves together and "decide" to be happy?   Or maybe you think they should accept that the price of their family's happiness is their own misery for the rest of their life?  

Some people are independent and don't need their family around. I'm certainly in that category, but I also understand that a lot of people are not like me.  For some people, being separated from family makes them suicidally depressed.  There are also people who get exogenous depression.  They're not imagining it, so they can't just wish it away and get over it.

I have said it before.  IF the advantages for children in Australia were enormous, then perhaps it would be worth one parent giving up their own happiness to bring them here.  But for most people, the benefits are not enormous  - in fact which country is "better" for kids is the subject of great debate, with arguments on both sides.  So sacrificing one family member's happiness for the sake of the move simply doesn't make sense.

I have to say, when I hear someone saying their husband/wife is selfish because they want to go home, it's often the speaker who's the selfish one:  they're enjoying themselves and are looking for excuses to belittle their partner's pain.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Marisawright

[Toots]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

You usually talk a lot of sense, CaptainR, and most of this post is no exception.

However, I don't think it's appropriate to insult everyone who "is lonely/misses family" by calling them selfish. Do you think they should be able to pull themselves together and "decide" to be happy?   Or maybe you think they should accept that the price of their family's happiness is their own misery for the rest of their life?  

Some people are independent and don't need their family around. I'm certainly in that category, but I also understand that a lot of people are not like me.  For some people, being separated from family makes them suicidally depressed.  There are also people who get exogenous depression.  They're not imagining it, so they can't just wish it away and get over it.

I have said it before.  IF the advantages for children in Australia were enormous, then perhaps it would be worth one parent giving up their own happiness to bring them here.  But for most people, the benefits are not enormous  - in fact which country is "better" for kids is the subject of great debate, with arguments on both sides.  So sacrificing one family member's happiness for the sake of the move simply doesn't make sense.

I have to say, when I hear someone saying their husband/wife is selfish because they want to go home, it's often the speaker who's the selfish one:  they're enjoying themselves and are looking for excuses to belittle their partner's pain.

I really can't understand all those arguments about which country is better for children.  It's all very much of a muchness.  I've never been one to analyse everything that happened to my children and wring my hands over would they have been happier/better educated in the UK.  We all just got on with it.  Compared  to relatives in their age group in the UK there really isn't any difference at all.  Both of my sons have been offered jobs overseas.  One of them may come back here soon to take up a similar position close to Sydney.  It's quite funny but my OH and I were talking about 'life' the other day and even he said that if we had had children before coming to Australia we probably wouldn't have gone through the whole migration thing.  He is Australian and really wanted me to see his country of birth and have a bit of an adventure plus I think he was a bit homesick too.  Anyway things worked out well for us and there are no regrets but if it had come down to it and I had been unhappy, we all would have returned to the UK as he is fond of the place and has lots of relative there.  It's a very tricky situation to be in if one half wants to return and the other doesn't.

[CaptainR]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

You usually talk a lot of sense, CaptainR, and most of this post is no exception.

I have to say, when I hear someone saying their husband/wife is selfish because they want to go home, it's often the speaker who's the selfish one:  they're enjoying themselves and are looking for excuses to belittle their partner's pain.

Hi Marisa, looking back at my post I agree that perhaps I unfairly generalised in that sentence. Admittedly making the decision to migrate away from family as a selfish decision in itself though and we are well aware of that when we see the tears in my parents eyes at Heathrow Airport & Manila Airport as they give their grandchildren a hug every time we come back to Australia from a holiday. We have been through tough times where we have severely sacrificed our own happiness and quality of life to ensure that our children's lifestyle and well being is maintained, yet it has seemed the most logical decision in the circumstances, so of course when I read the odd comment on  posts where people apparently make a decision based on their own emotions disregarding what might be best for the children (whether that be living in the UK or living in Australia) I sometimes despair. However, of course a few comments on a public internet forum doesn't tell you the full story of someones life and the hardships they may be experiencing. 

[CaptainR]

Incidentally, we came to Australia from the Middle East where my wife made the decision that she didn't want to bring up our children there as she concerned they would become expat brats disconnecting from reality, however I am sure in reality many children are brought up just fine going through the international schools in the Middle East. 

[Saurer Pfirsich]

5 hours ago, Keith and Linda said:

I did that too (as well as many other things) on the Leeds Liverpool canal, the Kirkstall and Burley section in Leeds, where was your section?

The other end - Aintree to Melling. The canal was essentially a playground for us growing up - fishing, blackberrying, building rafts out of old wooden pallets, and if you were particularly reckless, swimming in it!

If my kids did half the things I used to get up to on or around the old cut I'd have a heart attack!

[MissMissingEurope]

On 20/02/2018 at 16:04, rammygirl said:

Have you lived anywhere else in Australia? I live in the Adelaide hills. A great local community with four distinct seasons including Autumn with yellow and red leaves. And a cold winter with frost on the grass. 

Yes, I have also lived in Melbourne and Cairns.. we have considered Hobart or Canberra but they are even further away from Europe than Perth is so i'm not sure i'd be able to settle there either as it's the isolation from Europe that really bothers me about living here the most. 

[Keith and Linda]

14 hours ago, Saurer Pfirsich said:

The other end - Aintree to Melling. The canal was essentially a playground for us growing up - fishing, blackberrying, building rafts out of old wooden pallets, and if you were particularly reckless, swimming in it!

If my kids did half the things I used to get up to on or around the old cut I'd have a heart attack!

If your rafts were anything like ours then you had to swim in the canal...............fishing with your little wire hooped net on a piece of bamboo, jam jar with string handle throw in a piece of water weed, 4 hours later you have three stickle back in the jar, declare yourself the best fisherman and throw stones in next to your mates fishing spot.

[Marisawright]

22 hours ago, CaptainR said:

Hi Marisa, looking back at my post I agree that perhaps I unfairly generalised in that sentence. Admittedly making the decision to migrate away from family as a selfish decision in itself though and we are well aware of that when we see the tears in my parents eyes at Heathrow Airport & Manila Airport as they give their grandchildren a hug every time we come back to Australia from a holiday. We have been through tough times where we have severely sacrificed our own happiness and quality of life to ensure that our children's lifestyle and well being is maintained, yet it has seemed the most logical decision in the circumstances, so of course when I read the odd comment on  posts where people apparently make a decision based on their own emotions disregarding what might be best for the children (whether that be living in the UK or living in Australia) I sometimes despair. 

I've bolded the important section.   I'm not convinced I see many parents putting their own emotions ahead of what's best for the children, anywhere on these forums.

What I see, FAR too often, is people assuming Australia MUST be a better life for kids, and therefore they sacrifice their own emotions to get there.   My point is, Australia is NOT always a better life for kids.   It depends where you come from, where you're going, how your finances will change, and how much importance you place on relationships.  

Some people might feel lifestyle and financial comfort is more important for kids than growing up with their extended family.  Others may feel the opposite.  Both are valid choices.

[Parley]

The healthy outdoor lifestyle with Sea and Sand is what parents want for their kids.

And most parents want their kids to have a better lifestyle than they themselves had growing up.

 

[bustamove]

Hey @MissMissingEurope

I could have written your post. We sound as if we're in the same boat.

So many people think we're crazy, but most of them are really supportive no we've made the decision.

It took us about a year to really make up our mind. My kids are 6 and 8, and the 8 year old is so excited she's been telling everyone at school - before we had! We've just recently officially announced it and now have the ball rolling.

We're going in June.

Come live in Bristol with us!
(That's the only crazy thing, we're moving to a place we don't know, but my sis is 1.5hrs down the road and there are daily flights to Northern Ireland where the rest of my family is.)
We live in Melbourne now, and love it, but I need more cold and snow! Still, I also need something similar to the Melbourne scence. Researched the ass out of where we should live and Bristol ticks all the boxes. It rains more than here, but I figure nowhere can be as bad as NI so we're taking our chances.

I say just do it! If your kids want to come back here when they're older they can make that decision themselves. Do what you have to do for you now.

Good luck!

[bristolman]

3 hours ago, Parley said:

The healthy outdoor lifestyle with Sea and Sand is what parents want for their kids.

And most parents want their kids to have a better lifestyle than they themselves had growing up.

 

I didn't realise it was as simple as that, sea and sand, that's all there is to it..wow. 

[bristolman]

3 hours ago, bustamove said:

Hey @MissMissingEurope

I could have written your post. We sound as if we're in the same boat.

So many people think we're crazy, but most of them are really supportive no we've made the decision.

It took us about a year to really make up our mind. My kids are 6 and 8, and the 8 year old is so excited she's been telling everyone at school - before we had! We've just recently officially announced it and now have the ball rolling.

We're going in June.

Come live in Bristol with us!
(That's the only crazy thing, we're moving to a place we don't know, but my sis is 1.5hrs down the road and there are daily flights to Northern Ireland where the rest of my family is.)
We live in Melbourne now, and love it, but I need more cold and snow! Still, I also need something similar to the Melbourne scence. Researched the ass out of where we should live and Bristol ticks all the boxes. It rains more than here, but I figure nowhere can be as bad as NI so we're taking our chances.

I say just do it! If your kids want to come back here when they're older they can make that decision themselves. Do what you have to do for you now.

Good luck!

We ended up in a place we didn't know and it turned out to be the best move ever and you won't hear our kids complaining about it, just the opposite. Kids don't need the beach to be happy, ours wouldn't care less if they never saw another beach in their lifetime. Our kids being Australian born with British passports have the option but I see very little chance of them leaving this country. 

[LKC]

1 hour ago, bristolman said:

We ended up in a place we didn't know and it turned out to be the best move ever and you won't hear our kids complaining about it, just the opposite. Kids don't need the beach to be happy, ours wouldn't care less if they never saw another beach in their lifetime. Our kids being Australian born with British passports have the option but I see very little chance of them leaving this country. 

We did too.  We lived in Suffolk before we moved to Australia, but only because we'd ended up there, not because we specifically chose it as a place to live, it wasn't near either family.  When we decided to move back from Sydney we realised that we'd not be happy just to end up somewhere again, and did countless hours of research, looking at lots of different places in the UK.  As it happens, OH was offered a good job near to one of the locations we'd looked at, so we shifted our research slightly, found somewhere we thought we'd be happy, and six months later here we are, moved into our own house in the most lovely village on the southern edge of the Scottish Highlands!  

Good luck with it all!

[bristolman]

23 minutes ago, LKC said:

We did too.  We lived in Suffolk before we moved to Australia, but only because we'd ended up there, not because we specifically chose it as a place to live, it wasn't near either family.  When we decided to move back from Sydney we realised that we'd not be happy just to end up somewhere again, and did countless hours of research, looking at lots of different places in the UK.  As it happens, OH was offered a good job near to one of the locations we'd looked at, so we shifted our research slightly, found somewhere we thought we'd be happy, and six months later here we are, moved into our own house in the most lovely village on the southern edge of the Scottish Highlands!  

Good luck with it all!

We actually did no research whatsoever lol. We saw this house in a paper when we were in Gloucester, drove out to see it, kids loved it, made an offer and bought it next day lol

[bunbury61]

10 hours ago, Parley said:

The healthy outdoor lifestyle with Sea and Sand is what parents want for their kids.

And most parents want their kids to have a better lifestyle than they themselves had growing up.

 

I totally see your point parley , but that is just one small element

what happens if the kids are not the outdoor type ?

what happens when the idea of a trip to the beach wears thin , and travel ,and adventure and nightclubs take over , as iam finding out now .

the most important thing for kids is love ,security and stability within the family unit ,wherever you are .

beach or no beach .

 

 

[meme78]

with sea and sand?! really?! that is just so very shallow. having lived in both with my child, her life is no better or worse in either. In fact, less to worry about here- no mossies, snakes or sunburn/heat exhaustion- her hayfever and constant skin infections are no more in the UK. We still visit the beach btw- and we still cycle, go for walks, swim (outdoors in summer, indoors in winter) and our lives are no better or worse for either place. Having had 2 potential skin cancers cut off whilst in Oz, I'm happy to be without slathering on toxic sunscreen. Honestly- think of all the kids who grow up in northern Europe, or Canada- you don't hear them moaning about 6 months of snow and are you seriously saying all those children are unhappy, or having a horrible childhood? The wonderful thing about humans are is- we are adaptable. I had a lovely childhood in the UK- weather is a big part of that- memories of long summer days or cold, snowy ones- all lovely, never stopped me feeling happy. 

[bristolman]

14 minutes ago, meme78 said:

with sea and sand?! really?! that is just so very shallow. having lived in both with my child, her life is no better or worse in either. In fact, less to worry about here- no mossies, snakes or sunburn/heat exhaustion- her hayfever and constant skin infections are no more in the UK. We still visit the beach btw- and we still cycle, go for walks, swim (outdoors in summer, indoors in winter) and our lives are no better or worse for either place. Having had 2 potential skin cancers cut off whilst in Oz, I'm happy to be without slathering on toxic sunscreen. Honestly- think of all the kids who grow up in northern Europe, or Canada- you don't hear them moaning about 6 months of snow and are you seriously saying all those children are unhappy, or having a horrible childhood? The wonderful thing about humans are is- we are adaptable. I had a lovely childhood in the UK- weather is a big part of that- memories of long summer days or cold, snowy ones- all lovely, never stopped me feeling happy. 

Very well put and absolutely spot on. 

[tea4too]

15 hours ago, Parley said:

The healthy outdoor lifestyle with Sea and Sand is what parents want for their kids.

And most parents want their kids to have a better lifestyle than they themselves had growing up.

 

Not sure about this Parley. I agree that a healthy lifestyle is on my list of priorities as a parent, but sea and sand?..... no, they are not on my radar. And a ‘better’ lifestyle is too general an aspiration.  How do you measure better? I grew up without many of the things that today’s children take for granted, but my generation were not deprived of love or a sense of purpose. People matter, families matter, education, enough money to make life safe and comfortable,  good health, future employment prospects – the list could go on. But my own list wouldn’t include sea and sand . T x

Edited February 23, 2018 by tea4too

[Tulip1]

On 22/02/2018 at 08:16, MissMissingEurope said:

Yes, I have also lived in Melbourne and Cairns.. we have considered Hobart or Canberra but they are even further away from Europe than Perth is so i'm not sure i'd be able to settle there either as it's the isolation from Europe that really bothers me about living here the most. 

Did you visit Europe a lot then when you were in the UK

[Parley]

1 hour ago, tea4too said:

Not sure about this Parley. I agree that a healthy lifestyle is on my list of priorities as a parent, but sea and sand?..... no, they are not on my radar. And a ‘better’ lifestyle is too general an aspiration.  How do you measure better? I grew up without many of the things that today’s children take for granted, but my generation were not deprived of love or a sense of purpose. People matter, families matter, education, enough money to make life safe and comfortable,  good health, future employment prospects – the list could go on. But my own list wouldn’t include sea and sand . T x

If that was true no one would ever migrate to Australia but as you know they are coming in their droves.

And shows like Wanted Down Under show how much everyone wants the beach lifestyle. It is always a major pulling factor.

[tea4too]

1 hour ago, Parley said:

If that was true no one would ever migrate to Australia but as you know they are coming in their droves.

And shows like Wanted Down Under show how much everyone wants the beach lifestyle. It is always a major pulling factor.

What’s not true about my post? It reflects my views and, while I guess some people may see a beach lifestyle as a top priority for their family, personally I think a happy childhood depends on far more significant factors...irrespective of the focus of  some light entertainment programmes such as WDU. T x

[Toots]

18 hours ago, Parley said:

The healthy outdoor lifestyle with Sea and Sand is what parents want for their kids.

And most parents want their kids to have a better lifestyle than they themselves had growing up.

 

My siblings and I had a very healthy outdoor lifestyle with lots of sea and sand growing up in Scotland.  

[Gbye grey sky]

3 hours ago, tea4too said:

Not sure about this Parley. I agree that a healthy lifestyle is on my list of priorities as a parent, but sea and sand?..... no, they are not on my radar. And a ‘better’ lifestyle is too general an aspiration.  How do you measure better? I grew up without many of the things that today’s children take for granted, but my generation were not deprived of love or a sense of purpose. People matter, families matter, education, enough money to make life safe and comfortable,  good health, future employment prospects – the list could go on. But my own list wouldn’t include sea and sand . T x

Ditto.

We are all loving life here but the beaches are not a factor.  I probably spent more time on beaches on annual holidays to the Med than I have here.

Then again though if you are into swimming, surfing, jetski’ing, boating canoeing, or fishing there is nowhere better for these activities year round.

[ali]

41 minutes ago, Gbye grey sky said:

Ditto.

We are all loving life here but the beaches are not a factor.  I probably spent more time on beaches on annual holidays to the Med than I have here.

 

Us too - not massive beach goers and if we could afford to live near water then we'd live by the river and not the ocean.  I have to say, that I love sitting at the back of my garden by the pool reading  - that's my chill out zone.

[Toots]

1 hour ago, Gbye grey sky said:

Ditto.

We are all loving life here but the beaches are not a factor.  I probably spent more time on beaches on annual holidays to the Med than I have here.

Then again though if you are into swimming, surfing, jetski’ing, boating canoeing, or fishing there is nowhere better for these activities year round.

I've always very much enjoyed living close to the sea.  Some people prefer mountains and valleys but I love the sea.  That's one of the nice things about living in Tasmania.  There are some very nice beaches where hardly another soul goes and there are the mountains and lakes too.  I went swimming in the sea very often this summer - so much for some mainlanders who told  me it is far too cold to go swimming in the sea here.