Snap General Election Called

[newjez]

6 hours ago, Parley said:

Even Hillary Clinton said you can't contain ISIS you will have to destroy it.

You can't destroy an idea with bombs.

[Johndoe]

8 minutes ago, newjez said:

You can't destroy an idea with bombs.

Unless you bomb every single bugger that has the idea in their heads

[newjez]

7 hours ago, Parley said:

I seriously think Corbyn must be a bit deranged.

I just read he attended a wreath laying ceremony for a Palestinian terrorist who was involved in the Munich Olympics massacre.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/28/jeremy-corbyn-criticised-labour-election-candidates-wreath-laying/

 

He must have a death wish I think.

I don't think he can get out of this one. Look like the head shot. Pound recovering. Pretty hard to justify visiting the grave of the perpetrators of one of the worst terrorist acts we've had. Especially just after Manchester. Meeting the political factions of terror organisations is one thing. That's how you broker peace. This is another thing entirely. Looks like May will get a majority. Corbyn needs to resign as he is unelectable with this stain on him. Only thing that can save him is if he calls it fake news.

Edited May 29, 2017 by newjez

[BacktoDemocracy]

1 hour ago, newjez said:

I don't think he can get out of this one. Look like the head shot. Pound recovering. Pretty hard to justify visiting the grave of the perpetrators of one of the worst terrorist acts we've had. Especially just after Manchester. Meeting the political factions of terror organisations is one thing. That's how you broker peace. This is another thing entirely. Looks like May will get a majority. Corbyn needs to resign as he is unelectable with this stain on him. Only thing that can save him is if he calls it fake news.

I was never very in favour of him but forgave him some of his stupidities because he did try to stick with his beliefs but he is leader of a political party and has never understood that you have to have power and that means compromise, he was always on a knife edge but he was making ground, now he's just back to being an embarrassment, a schmuck. 

[Collie]

Do the media & polls have it wrong again?
Una Mullally: Corbyn revival shows the media’s failings

British Labour leader’s comeback is partially the result of unfavourable coverage

about 14 hours ago

Una Mullally 

British Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn. File photograph: John Stillwell/Getty Images

 

In mid-April, British prime minister Theresa May had a lead of 56 points over Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn in approval ratings. Her lead is now 22 points. How does that happen? A week from the UK’s general election, the Conservatives’ lead over Labour, which was 19 points a month ago, has narrowed to 10.

So the British media might now have to search for different ways to discuss Corbyn. Once viewed as toxic and unelectable, a Labour kamikaze mission, a disaster who would dismantle the party for a generation, a useless leader of the opposition, a man who could never lead, never mind win, a person whom the British public could never envisage as prime minister, Corbyn is having something of a comeback, albeit from a low base.

What does this mean about how we talk about politicians deemed by mainstream, centrist society to be “unsuitable”?

May’s decreasing popularity is unusual, in that her leadership is still in a honeymoon period of sorts. The decline of Ukip and the subsuming of some of its policies into the Conservative agenda will also work in the Tories’ favour in sucking up more right-wing voters.

May has a fawning conservative media championing her every move and utterance. And with terrorism to the fore in current affairs and discourse, many people will react by gravitating towards a conservative position.

What will happen on June 8th, we’re told, is a Labour wipeout. What began as a general election on Brexit, and a tactical decision by May to put her leadership front and centre in order to trash Labour and return a stronger Tory majority, has turned into something slightly odder.

Tory PR nightmare

There is so much strange about western politics today, but one of the themes is unlikely leaders, or those who come from nowhere to unseat the status quo.

A dent in May’s campaign has been her U-turn on “social care”, when she changed a manifesto pledge relating to how much the elderly will be required to pay for their care. This became a PR nightmare that has also embroiled her in an argument about a policy with an unspinnable name: “dementia tax”.

It’s an emotionally loaded topic and an almost impossible debate for May to win. It is also a symbol for a view of the Tories as uncaring, which is a strong emotional lever for Labour to pull.

Labour’s manifesto, however, has cut through in a way that wasn’t predicted, although, as we know, campaign policies can differ greatly from actions in office.

Corbyn is still ropey and often seems to go out of his way to make the wrong decision. His refusal to engage in a leaders’ debate on television showed a bullish naivety when it might have given him an opportunity to own the conversation.

Given Corbyn’s and Labour’s complaints about the British media, you’d imagine he should take his opportunities when they are presented. And what of that media?

The narrative that surrounds Corbyn in terms of him being far from an ideal Labour leader or potential prime minister might be true, but it is one that has been amplified in a way which, ironically, is perhaps contributing to his slowly increasing popularity.

Antagonistic

A 2016 report from the department of media and communications at the London School of Economics, Journalistic Representations of Jeremy Corbyn in the British Press – from “Watchdog” to “Attackdog”, found that coverage of the Labour leader was overwhelmingly critical and antagonistic in tone.

Few who read British newspapers could be surprised by this. It raises the question of why the British media is so hostile to Corbyn. It also raises the question of why, given that hostility, Corbyn and Labour are climbing in the polls.

Apart from his flaws as a leader, Corbyn’s sin is that he has never fitted into the mainstream media’s ideological framework of what a contemporary Labour leader should be.

And just as the media in the United States failed to wrap its head around the reasons why Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders appealed to voters, the mainstream British media is missing something with Corbyn.

In hammering the underdog (rightly or wrongly), the media might be boosting him, because the narrative is one of the media, the status quo and the establishment versus Corbyn.

Many parts of the media – both liberal and conservative – are in thrall to consensus and status quo, where space for divergent opinions seems mostly set aside for controversialists or “hot take” journalism, as opposed to wider debate about what society could or perhaps should be.

Alternatives are viewed with suspicion, radical ideas are sidelined as nonsense, and figures such as Corbyn – whatever one’s view of him – are gleefully misinterpreted and patronised.

When there is so much criticism, hyperbole, sensationalism, and bias, how are consumers of media meant to know what is legitimate? Who are they meant to trust? And when trust in the so-called establishment disappears, particularly in politics and the media, anything can happen.

[Gbye grey sky]

4 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

I was never very in favour of him but forgave him some of his stupidities because he did try to stick with his beliefs but he is leader of a political party and has never understood that you have to have power and that means compromise, he was always on a knife edge but he was making ground, now he's just back to being an embarrassment, a schmuck. 

Many forget that Nelson Mandele was a convicted terrorist but world leaders ultimately begged to be associated with him.

Corbyn gets that terrorism occurs for a reason and it is important to try to understand that reason.  Without understanding you really cannot combat the ideology effectively.

The easy option is to use fighting talk and set in train more killing without any real appreciation of the motives of the terrorists or the part that actions taken by the western nations have in propogating that violence.

[BritChickx]

Watching the debate on Channel 4 atm

[newjez]

20 hours ago, Parley said:

I seriously think Corbyn must be a bit deranged.

I just read he attended a wreath laying ceremony for a Palestinian terrorist who was involved in the Munich Olympics massacre.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/28/jeremy-corbyn-criticised-labour-election-candidates-wreath-laying/

 

He must have a death wish I think.

Interesting that he didn't get nailed on this by paxman. Maybe is fake news, or rather, faked news; making something of nothing?

[newjez]

6 hours ago, BritChickx said:

Watching the debate on Channel 4 atm

What did you think?

I do wish he had asked her to explain what no deal meant to the average person.

But it seemed a strong performance by both, under very hostile questioning. I expect to see the pound under pressure. This isn't over.

[Parley]

I thought she refused to debate him ?

[BritChickx]

2 hours ago, newjez said:

What did you think?

I do wish he had asked her to explain what no deal meant to the average person.

But it seemed a strong performance by both, under very hostile questioning. I expect to see the pound under pressure. This isn't over.

They both did a good job. It was good to finally hear Corbyn properly. Im still unsure who ill be voting for though...

[Collie]

I didn't see it, may have a look tonight on playback.  Here is a review i read about it.  Was it a head to head debate?  The article below sounds like it was 2 separate interviews with a similar format.

British election: Theresa May struggles during TV interview

British prime minister faces heckles from audience as Corbyn exceeds expectations

about 8 hours ago

Denis Staunton in London

British prime minister Theresa May faced laughter, jeers and heckling from a studio audience on Monday night as she struggled to answer questions about her record during a TV interview with Jeremy Paxman.

When Mr Paxman suggested that negotiators in Brussels would view her as “a blowhard who collapses at the first sign of gunfire”, the audience applauded.

Mr Paxman interviewed Ms May and Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn separately as part of the Sky News/Channel 4 Battle for Number 10 programme, with each facing questions from the audience ahead of the interview.

Ms May was uncomfortable when she was challenged on her history of U-turns, on everything from calling an early election to a manifesto commitment on social care for older people.

Earlier, during the question-and-answer session with the studio audience, the prime minister was heckled while she was answering questions about school funding.

She was more confident on Brexit, winning applause when she repeated that no deal was better than a bad deal on leaving the EU.

Asked how much she was willing to pay to get out of the EU, however, the prime minister made clear that she accepted that the UK would have to make a financial settlement as it leaves the bloc.

“It isn’t a question of what it’s worth paying to get out; it’s a question of what is going to be the right deal for us in leaving the EU which will stop us from having to pay huge sums of money into the EU every year,” she said.

Mr Corbyn said it was impossible to say how much the UK should pay as it leaves the EU, but promised to fulfil the country’s legal obligations.

He said he would start the Brexit negotiations seriously and would not countenance the idea of leaving the EU without a deal.

“We will make sure there is a deal. We won’t start the negotiations by megaphone diplomacy and threatening Europe with some sort of offshore tax haven on the shores of Europe,” he said.

Exceeding expectations

If the prime minister struggled under questioning from Mr Paxman and the studio audience, Mr Corbyn exceeded expectations, remaining calm and pleasant throughout.

He brushed off questions about his past attitude to the IRA, claiming that his support for Sinn Féin was aimed at promoting a peace process in Northern Ireland.

He also faced questions about his record of opposing British military interventions abroad, including the Falklands War.

He escaped mostly unscathed, most notably when Mr Paxman asked him why his longstanding wish to abolish the monarchy was not in the Labour manifesto.

“There’s nothing in there because we’re not going to do it,” he said.

“It’s not on anybody’s agenda. It’s not on my agenda.”

Campaigning in the West Midlands on Tuesday, Ms May will seek to restore Brexit to the centre of the campaign, and will warn that the European Commission will take a tough line in negotiations.

She will promise to use Brexit to make the UK a fairer society and focus more on the concerns of working people who struggle to make ends meet.

“Everything depends on getting Brexit right. So the central question in this election is: who has the will - and crucially the plan - to make a success of Brexit so that we can build the stronger, fairer, more prosperous Britain we want and need?” she will say.

“And on that central question, I believe there is only one choice. Because I am clear about the instruction I have been given, clear about what needs to be done, and ready to get on with the job on day one – while Jeremy Corbyn doesn’t have the belief, the will or the plan to deliver Brexit. And he doesn’t have the strength to do so either.”

[newjez]

3 hours ago, Parley said:

I thought she refused to debate him ?

Probably closest thing we will get to a debate. I'm not surprised. These manifestos never add up, but hers doesn't even have any numbers in it, and we get some vague promise that they will sort it out by consultation afterwards. Consultation my arse. I worry about brexit. She's a Jim hacker when it comes to polls.

Edited May 30, 2017 by newjez

[amibovered]

The Irish Times were obviously watching a different debate to the one I watched, May was what I expected, and Corbyn was poor, but not as bad as I expected. 

[newjez]

11 minutes ago, amibovered said:

The Irish Times were obviously watching a different debate to the one I watched, May was what I expected, and Corbyn was poor, but not as bad as I expected. 

Is that an unbiased opinion? Lol!

[BritChickx]

I actually thought Corbyn did better than May. And this is coming from someone who WAS going to vote for the Conservatives. I don't agree on some things in their manifesto. I wasn't convinced by some things she said, she avoided a lot of questions. Corbyn couldn't answer some of the questions either but instead of lying he just literally said he couldn't know or tell us, which I thought was better.

[BacktoDemocracy]

12 hours ago, Gbye grey sky said:

Many forget that Nelson Mandele was a convicted terrorist but world leaders ultimately begged to be associated with him.

Corbyn gets that terrorism occurs for a reason and it is important to try to understand that reason.  Without understanding you really cannot combat the ideology effectively.

The easy option is to use fighting talk and set in train more killing without any real appreciation of the motives of the terrorists or the part that actions taken by the western nations have in propogating that violence.

I agree he does get it but it is to my mind a political judgement about tailoring the message to what the electorate will hear, this is why Blair was so successful.

I agree a lot of his thinking is right but is the electorate ready for them, this is the dilemma. 

Without having power your manifesto remains simply a collection of ideas, it must be better to be elected on a slimmed down manifesto which allows you to stop the Tory assault on social provision

[Parley]

39 minutes ago, BritChickx said:

I actually thought Corbyn did better than May. And this is coming from someone who WAS going to vote for the Conservatives. I don't agree on some things in their manifesto. I wasn't convinced by some things she said, she avoided a lot of questions. Corbyn couldn't answer some of the questions either but instead of lying he just literally said he couldn't know or tell us, which I thought was better.

Are you saying May lied or neither of them lied.?

[Parley]

I don't believe any of the lie deliberately.

They may have to change their mind later about a policy but that isn't a lie.

[Collie]

So is it worth watching back or should I watch the political documentary on Netflix, House of Cards (S5)?  

[Collie]

3 hours ago, amibovered said:

The Irish Times were obviously watching a different debate to the one I watched, May was what I expected, and Corbyn was poor, but not as bad as I expected. 

What points in particular do you feel they have called incorrectly?

I just listened to a review on Irish radio with a couple of UK journalists that was broadly along the lines described above.  They played a few exerts from both leaders, Paxman really had May squirming when he asked her about Brexit, In typical Paxman style, he must have asked her 6 times in a row whether she had changed her mind (from her stated position in March 2016 that Brexit would be bad for Britain) and she didn't answer.  Corbyn answered the thorny questions better, eg about abolishing the monarchy etc.

Sometimes an outside view is better as they are a bit removed from the emotions of the election/issues and tend to be more objective.

[ScottieGirl]

Kudos to May for trying to sort out the fallout from the Brexit vote, unlike Cameron who threw his toys out of the pram and quit. She doesn't have to agree with it nor does Corbyn but they have to deal with it now it has happened. 

[Collie]

Cameron had to go after he lost the Brexit vote.  His credibility was gone and you have to have the courage of your convictions.  

Also how do implement a policy that you fundamentally believe is wrong for the country?  Shows a lack of integrity IMO.

I agree that it has been decided on by the people and now needs to be implemented, although given the way they voted, Scotland and NI should be given a choice of either staying in the EU (and leaving the UK) or staying as part of the UK and leaving the EU.  That would be truly democratic.

 I have a Scottish friend who voted to leave the UK, then voted for Brexit and now is eager for a 2nd referendum to leave the UK and join the EU.  talk about contradicting yourself.  Some people don't deserve a vote.  I have given up discussing politics with him as he clearly hasn't a clue.  

[ScottieGirl]

27 minutes ago, Collie said:

Cameron had to go after he lost the Brexit vote.  His credibility was gone and you have to have the courage of your convictions.  

Also how do implement a policy that you fundamentally believe is wrong for the country?  Shows a lack of integrity IMO.

I agree that it has been decided on by the people and now needs to be implemented, although given the way they voted, Scotland and NI should be given a choice of either staying in the EU (and leaving the UK) or staying as part of the UK and leaving the EU.  That would be truly democratic.

 I have a Scottish friend who voted to leave the UK, then voted for Brexit and now is eager for a 2nd referendum to leave the UK and join the EU.  talk about contradicting yourself.  Some people don't deserve a vote.  I have given up discussing politics with him as he clearly hasn't a clue.  

Ideologically I agree with you but in practice I prefer May over Gove or Johnson. 

 

[newjez]

3 hours ago, Parley said:

Are you saying May lied or neither of them lied.?

May just change meaningless mantras. When she does quote figures, she bends the statistics.

But her best bit is this. After brexit, she can blame the destruction of the public services on brexit.

“Our National Health Service – the institution which is there for us at the most difficult times – needs us to make a success of Brexit to ensure we can afford to provide it with the resources it needs for the future.”