Better life for children???

[akiralx]

But surely, if you haven't decided yet, you owe it to yourself to think about the good AND the bad? And you also owe it to your family to make sure you're moving for the right reasons?

 

I came to Australia at a time when the UK was in a dreadful state, and Australia was booming, so the advantages of moving were obvious. When I see Brits wanting to move to Australia now, I'm not so clear what the motivation is - because these days one country offers no real advantage over the other, they're just different. You may have your head screwed on, but I worry when I see other would-be migrants talking about "living the dream" - life in Australia is not a dream, it's pretty much the same as life anywhere!

 

 

Agreed - I would go so far as to say that unless there is at least one aspect of your UK life that you are definitely unhappy about, do not emigrate here - particularly as the economy seems likely to take a downturn.

 

Potential emigrants who say on this forum that they have a wonderful UK life with great jobs, excellent house and wonderful circle of friends and family - but are considering emigrating to Aus because they'll 'regret it if they don't' - my answer is yes, you might, but you're more likely to regret it if you do come here...

[MARYROSE02]

Agreed - I would go so far as to say that unless there is at least one aspect of your UK life that you are definitely unhappy about, do not emigrate here - particularly as the economy seems likely to take a downturn.

 

Potential emigrants who say on this forum that they have a wonderful UK life with great jobs, excellent house and wonderful circle of friends and family - but are considering emigrating to Aus because they'll 'regret it if they don't' - my answer is yes, you might, but you're more likely to regret it if you do come here...

 

See, I would argue that the people most likely to succeed in OZ are those who are already happy with their lives in the UK because they can be almost sure that 'history will repeat itself' in Australia. And, ironically, it's those people who are most unhappy with their lives in the UK, who 'fail' in Australia, because 'history does repeat itself.'

[paul1977]

See, I would argue that the people most likely to succeed in OZ are those who are already happy with their lives in the UK because they can be almost sure that 'history will repeat itself' in Australia. And, ironically, it's those people who are most unhappy with their lives in the UK, who 'fail' in Australia, because 'history does repeat itself.'

Fail...?

[MARYROSE02]

Note inverted commas! But the 'pass' mark is not very hard to attain! I got 75 per cent without too much effort.

 

Dave, do you like:

Beer? Yes

Beach? Yes

Cricket? Yes

(Horse) Racing? No

 

Not bad for a Pommie Dave. You'll do.

[Gbye grey sky]

Fail...?

 

I am sure Maryrose can speak for himself but in this context I think he means fail as an abbreviation for fail to have a better life.

[MARYROSE02]

I continue to ask every Pommie (or 'Paddy' as I have a few Irish friends) I meet if they like it here, and why they like it here, and continue to get the same positive answers. Maybe they are all mostly young and single, (although I don't know why 'young and single' means 'more likely to be happy' if you migrate to OZ) but if their lives follow the usual progression through, meeting 'someone', marrying, buying a home, then, 'Right, we are having kids, let's go home to make sure they have a happy life?'

 

I met a middle aged Pommie couple last night and they would love to migrate here to be with their two adult children/step children, but the barriers the Aussie government put up seem to be a lot higher than for asylum seekers! $40,000 for the woman, as they are her kids, plus guarantees from her children. I remember reading about an Irish couple with four adult children here, and the cost for them to join their children (none left in Ireland) was $80,000. OK, slightly off-topic, but writing about this made me think of them.

[Paul1Perth]

PIP: You have to hover your mouse over the map for an enlargement.

 

That maps uses data that is over two years old...since then, oil price has dropped by about 50%, placing the economic viablity of any energy related project in doubt. And that's anywhere in the world..not just Oz.

 

Between now and 2018, all big Oz based energy (mostly LNG) projects will be onstream and the need for construction based activities will be hugely reduced. The thousands of construction workers who have made big bucks during the build phase, will be looking for jobs, but there will be no projects for them to go to - some might get taken on for maintenance, but what about the thousands that won't? For the forseeable future, there will be oil, gas and mining related jobs in Oz, just significantly fewer of them and with an oversupply of skill, market forces will take over and salaries will drop.

 

Good luck to you, QSS and your families - but the topic for this thread is Better life for children???. I am genuinely really pleased that the timings of your moves to Oz has worked out well for you...but in the current economic climate, do you really think that anyone should be moving to Oz without a guaranteed job without giving it a long hard think? Not much fun for kids if their parents are have either money problems and are continually worried about not having a job.

 

Like you say though the map I linked to was from 2013, things have changed since then and no0one saw that coming. You are basing your arguments about what will happen in 2018 on the price of oil, gas and commodities now. What if the trend reverses and the price goes back to where it was 6 months ago? The picture will change again and they will be screaming out for staff.

 

Lets hope eh!

 

Back to the topic though. When we came, even though we had a 2 year old it never crossed our mind about what would be better or worse for him in the long run. You can't even guess what might happen for 2 years, let alone wonder whether a 2 year old, who you have no clue about his ability and what he might be interested in, will have a better lifestyle. Maybe we were selfish but we were thinking about ourselves, knew we liked a warm climate, being near the coast, dreamt of being able to go to the beach on a regular basis and just assumed our kids would like the same thing.

 

We didn't have jobs to come to, unemployment was something like 11%, interest rates about the same. The thought was that we would not be any worse off than we were in the UK but we would have sunshine and a beach to keep us happy when we aren't at work.

 

Luckily the kids have loved it too. Our eldest put things into perspective a bit. I went to pick him up from his mates house on boxing day. They had just got back from Rotto where he goes on his mates boat every Christmas for raft up. He'd had a few drinks so was a bit more chatty than normal. On the way home I mentioned to him how lucky he was and the usual stuff we say about not being able to do that back in the UK. To my surprise he said "don't worry Paul, we know how lucky we are". After a while living here you get a bit blasé about everything and think that the kids don't realise what a good lifestyle they have. It's nice to get feedback that they appreciate it.:yes:

[ali]

Like you say though the map I linked to was from 2013, things have changed since then and no0one saw that coming. You are basing your arguments about what will happen in 2018 on the price of oil, gas and commodities now. What if the trend reverses and the price goes back to where it was 6 months ago? The picture will change again and they will be screaming out for staff.

 

Lets hope eh!

 

Back to the topic though. When we came, even though we had a 2 year old it never crossed our mind about what would be better or worse for him in the long run. You can't even guess what might happen for 2 years, let alone wonder whether a 2 year old, who you have no clue about his ability and what he might be interested in, will have a better lifestyle. Maybe we were selfish but we were thinking about ourselves, knew we liked a warm climate, being near the coast, dreamt of being able to go to the beach on a regular basis and just assumed our kids would like the same thing.

 

We didn't have jobs to come to, unemployment was something like 11%, interest rates about the same. The thought was that we would not be any worse off than we were in the UK but we would have sunshine and a beach to keep us happy when we aren't at work.

 

Luckily the kids have loved it too. Our eldest put things into perspective a bit. I went to pick him up from his mates house on boxing day. They had just got back from Rotto where he goes on his mates boat every Christmas for raft up. He'd had a few drinks so was a bit more chatty than normal. On the way home I mentioned to him how lucky he was and the usual stuff we say about not being able to do that back in the UK. To my surprise he said "don't worry Paul, we know how lucky we are". After a while living here you get a bit blasé about everything and think that the kids don't realise what a good lifestyle they have. It's nice to get feedback that they appreciate it.:yes:

 

My daughter has said to us previously that she has been glad to have had her teenage years here.

[Paul1Perth]

I'm one of the world's natural worriers (sorry!) - which logically makes little sense. But I just am, and most of my family are too. It's a real waste of time and energy, but I do it all the same! So I can worry about all this stuff a lot. But it's pretty pointless really. For anything you can do something about, do something - for other things you can't do anything about, don't worry about it.

 

So, if you decide to come to Australia, do the best with all the things you can do something about. and the rest, there's no point stressing. This is what I try to tell myself. So in reference to the OP and the subject of this thread, do what you can. and try not to worry about the stuff that's almost impossible to control. That's the best you can do, and that's good enough.

 



 

I'm one of the worlds natural non-worriers CR. One of my wife's friends, who is a real nag to her husband, said if I was any more laid back I would be horizontal. I think it winds her up.:wink: I don't think I ever dreamed for one second we wouldn't like it, wouldn't settle and didn't worry whether me or the wife would get a job or not. Just assumed we would do at least as well as we had in the UK. I had had several jobs there, changed careers, had a fair big of experience, been made redundant just after we got the mortgage and managed to get through that. Thought why would it be any different here. It's not:cool:

[Marisawright]

See, I would argue that the people most likely to succeed in OZ are those who are already happy with their lives in the UK

 

I agree that if someone is just "doing a geographic" (i.e. moving to escape a problem that has NOTHING to do with the country), then it can't work: they'll be just as unhappy in their new country as in their old one. But if they move because life is tough in their old country (as most migrants used to), and there is the chance of a much better life in their new one, they are the MOST likely to succeed. They come with the right attitude, and they have nothing to go back to, so even if it is tough to start with, or they're lonely, they grit their teeth and get through it.

 

A family coming from a happy life with good jobs etc, is bound to miss that life a bit - and let's face it, we all tend to see a place with rose-coloured glasses the minute we leave it! So unless their arrival in Australia goes swimmingly, they're going to have some regrets, and if things don't come right quickly, those regrets can colour their whole attitude even when things start to improve. Suddenly they realise they spent $50,000 to move halfway across the world for a "better life", when in fact it's neither better nor worse, just different.

[TerryDXB]

You are basing your arguments about what will happen in 2018 on the price of oil, gas and commodities now. What if the trend reverses and the price goes back to where it was 6 months ago? The picture will change again and they will be screaming out for staff.

 

 

Nope - Woodside have laid off 300 people because of the low energy price. If they can continue to safely run their business right now without these 300 people, then they can continue to do so if, and when the energy prices show an upturn. Woodside aren't a charity, they're a hard-nosed business aiming to make a profit for their shareholders and one of the best ways of increasing the bottom line is to reduce overheads through staff head count reduction - this drop in energy prices is justification they need.

 

The big projects (Gorgon, Gladstone, Inpex etc) are at different stages of their construction, requiring up to 5000 people on site - once up and running, each of these will require less than 500 people for day to day operation - so those 4500 other people will be looking for jobs, and with no new projects, there will be no jobs for them. Regardless of the energy prices in 2018, the number of jobs related to oil, gas and mining will be significantly lower than at present.

Of course there will always be jobs, just far,far fewer than have been around for the last 4/5 years.

 

The knock-on from this is that money from cashed-up construction workers won't be fed back into other areas of the economy - maybe house prices will drop. Support industries such as hairdressers, shops and builders will likely experience a downturn as a result.

 

Right now, the future in Oz doesn't look as good as it did in say, 2011.

 

How does this effect Better life for children???. Well, if you came to Oz before 2010, you are likely to be well established, and well beyond the cash-vanishing set-up phase. If you have arrived in the last year or so, or are planning to come out soon then, unless you are guaranteed a job, it going to be a lot harder to find one now than it was 5 years ago.

 

If a young family with kids are struggling with not being able to get the job of their dreams (or any job), are paying huge amounts in rent and generally trying to keep their heads above water, whilst watching their savings dwindle, then its going to put a strain on the parents relationship which will be picked up by kids - kids aren't stupid, they might not know what the problem is, but they do pick on on situations. Its a kicker if you've gone to Oz for a better life for your kids and then find you can't afford it.

 

 

Is this negative? Might be seen as that by some, but I'd prefer to say its a realistic call. Its not reaslitic, and neither fair nor sensible, for anyone who rode the boom from 5 (or more)years ago, and did well out of it, to even suggest that their good fortune is going to be shared by anyone either just about to arrive, or planning to arrive soon.

Edited April 1, 2015 by TerryDXB

[Parley]

Can I just state what should be obvious and say that not everyone works in mining, or moves to Perth.

Mining is not everything.

[Shellybingobingo]

^^^^^^ terry dxb ....I read ya posts to my hubby last night ...he said he agrees with you ...you are spot on !

[Shellybingobingo]

Can I just state what should be obvious and say that not everyone works in mining, or moves to Perth.

Mining is not everything.

 

 

Lots of revenue goes to the government though from the big projects.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Shellybingobingo

[Parley]

True.

My point was mining jobs are probably only relevant to less than 5% of people coming here.

[Paul1Perth]

Can I just state what should be obvious and say that not everyone works in mining, or moves to Perth.

Mining is not everything.

 

I worked on one job in predictive maintenance for about a year in the mining sector. Neither me or the wife have had any benefit or been on brilliant pay scales because of it.

[Shellybingobingo]

True.

My point was mining jobs are probably only relevant to less than 5% of people coming here.

 

 

Well it will have a knock on effect on other industries ....if the government arnt getting their revenue ...they will make cut backs on things what are government funded . People then won't spend money ...because they haven't got it and other industries will suffer like e.g I haven't got no money have me hair done ect.....omg the thought of that for me lol although not funnie for folk

[Paul1Perth]

You are basing your arguments about what will happen in 2018 on the price of oil, gas and commodities now. What if the trend reverses and the price goes back to where it was 6 months ago? The picture will change again and they will be screaming out for staff.

 

 

Nope - Woodside have laid off 300 people because of the low energy price. If they can continue to safely run their business right now without these 300 people, then they can continue to do so if, and when the energy prices show an upturn. Woodside aren't a charity, they're a hard-nosed business aiming to make a profit for their shareholders and one of the best ways of increasing the bottom line is to reduce overheads through staff head count reduction - this drop in energy prices is justification they need.

 

The big projects (Gorgon, Gladstone, Inpex etc) are at different stages of their construction, requiring up to 5000 people on site - once up and running, each of these will require less than 500 people for day to day operation - so those 4500 other people will be looking for jobs, and with no new projects, there will be no jobs for them. Regardless of the energy prices in 2018, the number of jobs related to oil, gas and mining will be significantly lower than at present.

Of course there will always be jobs, just far,far fewer than have been around for the last 4/5 years.

 

The knock-on from this is that money from cashed-up construction workers won't be fed back into other areas of the economy - maybe house prices will drop. Support industries such as hairdressers, shops and builders will likely experience a downturn as a result.

 

Right now, the future in Oz doesn't look as good as it did in say, 2011.

 

How does this effect Better life for children???. Well, if you came to Oz before 2010, you are likely to be well established, and well beyond the cash-vanishing set-up phase. If you have arrived in the last year or so, or are planning to come out soon then, unless you are guaranteed a job, it going to be a lot harder to find one now than it was 5 years ago.

 

If a young family with kids are struggling with not being able to get the job of their dreams (or any job), are paying huge amounts in rent and generally trying to keep their heads above water, whilst watching their savings dwindle, then its going to put a strain on the parents relationship which will be picked up by kids - kids aren't stupid, they might not know what the problem is, but they do pick on on situations. Its a kicker if you've gone to Oz for a better life for your kids and then find you can't afford it.

 

 

Is this negative? Might be seen as that by some, but I'd prefer to say its a realistic call. Its not reaslitic, and neither fair nor sensible, for anyone who rode the boom from 5 (or more)years ago, and did well out of it, to even suggest that their good fortune is going to be shared by anyone either just about to arrive, or planning to arrive soon.

 

No Woodside aren't a charity and just like Rio and BHP they announced record profits again this year. If the price of oil, gas and iron ore goes up though, the way they make more profit is to start up more oil wells, start exploration again, open pits that have been put on the back burner, start projects that have been shelved for now. If this happens there will be a massive push for well qualified and trained personnel again.

[Quoll]

My daughter has said to us previously that she has been glad to have had her teenage years here.

 

My boys have said the same - the one who came to UK "on holiday" said at the time that there was no way he would raise a family in UK because he appreciated his Aus childhood. Fast forward 12 years and he can't even be bothered to go back to Aus for holidays, he has a son who has, as he sees it, more opportunities as a child than he had. He sees that his wife had a happy and enriched upbringing in UK and that it's what he does as a parent that makes for a happy little lad not the country. I daresay that if he hadn't come "for a holiday" he would have been quite content swimming in the little Aussie pond but having experienced London and so many more places on holiday and for work he says he has no interest in ever returning to Aus.

 

I think most of us have had childhoods that we think were great and what we aspire to for our kids and really that's all down to the parents not the place.

[Parley]

No doubt you worked your magic on him Quoll and wore him down eventually.

[paul1977]

Mining and oil and gas single handedly made WA the most expensive place to live from the cheapest.. With it all finishing it will have a massive knock on effect in the next 12/24 months , and if the mining wasn't what made it the most expensive place to live what was it..?

[Keith and Linda]

Well it will have a knock on effect on other industries ....if the government arnt getting their revenue ...they will make cut backs on things what are government funded . People then won't spend money ...because they haven't got it and other industries will suffer like e.g I haven't got no money have me hair done ect.....omg the thought of that for me lol although not funnie for folk

 

Cut backs are only needed if the governments based their future spend on predicted income from the boom time continuing (which they probably and stupidly did). The economy was rolling along as always before the boom, no reason as to why it should now. Then throw a few good extras in once they have the money in their pockets from any future boom time.

[Lee Ladek Dixon]

We moved 3 teenagers to Oz 5 years ago and they LOVE it here. Its such a different lifestyle to the UK.

Is the schooling any better in the UK - maybe, but it's all part of a bigger picture for us with work, lifestyle balance, weather etc etc.

 

All I can say to anyone is You don't know until you try !!!

 

Lee & Anya (Happy in Port Macquarie NSW)

[MARYROSE02]

My boys have said the same - the one who came to UK "on holiday" said at the time that there was no way he would raise a family in UK because he appreciated his Aus childhood. Fast forward 12 years and he can't even be bothered to go back to Aus for holidays, he has a son who has, as he sees it, more opportunities as a child than he had. He sees that his wife had a happy and enriched upbringing in UK and that it's what he does as a parent that makes for a happy little lad not the country. I daresay that if he hadn't come "for a holiday" he would have been quite content swimming in the little Aussie pond but having experienced London and so many more places on holiday and for work he says he has no interest in ever returning to Aus.

 

I think most of us have had childhoods that we think were great and what we aspire to for our kids and really that's all down to the parents not the place.

 

I don't agree with this statement, Quoll, implying, as it does, that the Southern Hemisphere is somehow inferior to the Northern Hemisphere, and indeed, Australia is inferior to Britain, and Asia is inferior to Europe. I spoke to a young Swiss guy last night who came to Sydney, (in the footsteps of many other young people) to learn English. I was initially mystified. "Why travel ten thousand miles just to learn English, when you just go to England?" But that was the reason he came to OZ, 'I could be in London in an hour, big deal.'

[flag of convenience]

I don't agree with this statement, Quoll, implying, as it does, that the Southern Hemisphere is somehow inferior to the Northern Hemisphere, and indeed, Australia is inferior to Britain, and Asia is inferior to Europe. I spoke to a young Swiss guy last night who came to Sydney, (in the footsteps of many other young people) to learn English. I was initially mystified. "Why travel ten thousand miles just to learn English, when you just go to England?" But that was the reason he came to OZ, 'I could be in London in an hour, big deal.'

 

Perhaps but it is a personal preference after experiencing life outside Australia. There are certainly many that come to a similar conclusion and find it hard to settle back into Australia. Others do return in more mature years to settle. These days with Australia being so expensive and many career breaks in other places, even that is not as self evident as in previous times.

 

As for Swiss language students, there were heaps here in Perth in the late 90's. Hardly any know due to the cost. You are correct it was more exotic besides being good value (in times past) than to do such courses in England or Malta. Met a number in South Africa as well.