Moving for the kids - what does that mean?

[p182]

Not directed at anyone or any thread in particular, but I notice a lot of people when writing about the reasons why they moved, the dilemmas they are having, the reports of how it's all going, state that one of the chief reasons why they moved was "to give the kids a better life".

 

I find this intriguing. I'm interested to hear what kind of "better life" you are expecting for your children. I'm assuming that the two most important things for a good start in life are loving parents and a decent education. Both possible in the UK and Australia.

 

When people say they are moving for the kids and to give them a better life, how much of that is true, and how much is used to internally justify to the self that it is ok to move them out of their current life, perhaps against their will - separating them from grandparents, friends, current school, familiar environment?

 

So parents who are thinking of making the move, what are the things that you are expecting in terms of a better life for your kids?

 

And parents who have moved, do you think it has made a qualitative difference to your kids life? Are they happier? And what kind of things do you think have made this "better life for my kids".

 

And as a bit of a disclaimer, I don't have any kids, I moved to Aus entirely for me :laugh:

[Johndoe]

My 2 younger kids came over 17 yrs ago when they were ankle biters so they had no real experience of the UK. They have visited the Uk and both have absolutely no wish to return.

 

I also had/have 3 older boys (now men) who, despite a good education, struggled to find work back then and all 3 eventually decided to join the forces if only for the "job security." As it turns out, they've done alright and the Forces and the UK have been good to them.

 

They still speak though of how "unsafe" they felt back then, job wise and personal safety wise, and they say that the personal safety issue still persists, although the towns they live in are nowhere near as bad as where they lived back then.

 

It was because of these issues that we sought the "better life" for our youngest. They have never felt unsafe here, and their future is nowhere near as bleak as it was for my 3 oldest.

 

So, the "better life" that we sought (for our kids) was based on personal safety and job (prospect) security.

 

Perhaps if we had lived in a safer environment (location) in the UK we may not have had to seek out a new life.

 

Those who have never experienced high crime areas and job insecurity and fail to recognise that many do, would likely have no idea why we, and the other PIO members living nearby who are now our friends, feel/felt the way we do.The Pommy friends that we've made via this forum all seem to have come here for exactly the same reasons as ourselves, bar a couple who came on the offer of better salaries ie financial reasons.

[LKC]

People assumed that hubby and I moved out here "For the kids", but in reality we moved because we wanted to and they had no option but to come with us, being one and two years old at the time. I am pretty sure that our children would be happy wherever in the world they are, because they have parents who love them and who always try to do the best for them, as do most other children. Had we stayed in the UK their life would have been different, but not better or worse.

 

At the end of the day, people moving from the UK to Australia are moving from one first world country to another, and the opportunities and experiences that their children will have, whilst not the same, will be very similar. If we are talking about moving from a third world/less developed country to Australia, then I can see that in many ways life will be better. However, I'm not talking about the sunshine and beach way of life. More about the opportunities for better living conditions, educational opportunities and so on. I can't see that being the case for anyone coming from the UK.

[Harpodom]

good OP

 

We moved with one child and have since had another. They are now 5 and 2.

TBH I don't think their lives are any better here than in the UK. Don't get me wrong, they're happy kids and they have the wife's grandparents nearby, also the SIL and family up in Cairns.

In the UK they have my parents, my brother and his family (3 kids aged 6-12) and my sister and her family (3 kids aged 18-22). When we went home last year on holiday, it was like coming out of 2 years of solitary confinement. The feeling of love and warmth from being in the midst of family was magical. So they are missing out on all that.

 

The upside to here is that we can afford a nice house, we live in a nice suburb, the oldest will start at one of Geelong's best primary schools next feb, lovely beaches, and possibly MOST importantly I (the dad and breadwinner) have a job I really enjoy and one that pays enough for us to live comfortably.

Also, when the kids are older, I think there may be more opportunities for doing outdoor stuff eg rowing (through school), surfing, kayaking etc. Currently the 5 year old has milo cricket to keep him occupied. Not sure if similar things exist in the UK.

[Surf N Turf]

Thanks for starting this thread - it's an interesting topic to explore.

 

From my perspective there are strong pros and cons re moving kids from the UK to Australia. I think what children really thrive on (in addition to a loving Mum and Dad) is having extended family around and stability - same house, community, school, friends etc. Obviously moving them out here doesn't help with either of those things. They're generally resilient and they cope but, if I'm honest, I don't think the move itself is great for them in the short-term. (Although my view is probably coloured by lots of childhood moves myself away from family and stability so others will disagree).

 

Where I justify the move to myself is in thinking of the longer term. I'm an Australian who has spend half my life in the UK. I find the UK to be a STRUGGLE. The competition for nice homes, great jobs, good schools etc is fierce. I've generally found those things to be easier to come by in Australia and I don't want my daughter to have to struggle. Purely my own perspective.

 

Yes, the weather is nice and there's lots of outdoor things to do but the parts of my childhood that were spent in the UK were extremely happy so I don't think that we have the monopoly on that here. Bottom line: I don't want her to have to fight so hard to get the things she wants. So, really I'm thinking of her long-term future. And in early adulthood she'll probably up and move back to the UK and choose the struggle for herself so it'll all be in vain!

[Guest Guest16631]

.....................we moved to be able to give our kids a better choice...............by OH havving better job prospects we were able to help our kids in their chosen careers..............they had a wider choice made available by what we could achieve here..................it still took hard work but...................there was a light at the end of the tunnel...................not just another blind corner..................the UK is still a place I hold dear.................but unfortunatly..[in our circumstances]..it did not offer a very bright future for our kids.........................here imo........our hard work has made life easier .................and the trappings of materialism ...............seem less important...........but to be able to have that choice has been more obtainable here [imo] than back in the uk......................it may not always bring happiness..............but it sure makes life more bearable..lol..........:wink:

[Harpodom]

Thanks for starting this thread - it's an interesting topic to explore.

 

From my perspective there are strong pros and cons re moving kids from the UK to Australia. I think what children really thrive on (in addition to a loving Mum and Dad) is having extended family around and stability - same house, community, school, friends etc. Obviously moving them out here doesn't help with either of those things. They're generally resilient and they cope but, if I'm honest, I don't think the move itself is great for them in the short-term. (Although my view is probably coloured by lots of childhood moves myself away from family and stability so others will disagree).

 

Where I justify the move to myself is in thinking of the longer term. I'm an Australian who has spend half my life in the UK. I find the UK to be a STRUGGLE. The competition for nice homes, great jobs, good schools etc is fierce. I've generally found those things to be easier to come by in Australia and I don't want my daughter to have to struggle. Purely my own perspective.

 

Yes, the weather is nice and there's lots of outdoor things to do but the parts of my childhood that were spent in the UK were extremely happy so I don't think that we have the monopoly on that here. Bottom line: I don't want her to have to fight so hard to get the things she wants. So, really I'm thinking of her long-term future. And in early adulthood she'll probably up and move back to the UK and choose the struggle for herself so it'll all be in vain!

 

I think therein lies the crux of the difference between Aus and the UK, and what shapes Aussies and Brits differently. The 'struggle', as you put it, is very real in the UK.

 

Even going down to Tescos in Welwyn felt like a battle (trying to avoid the chavs, trying to avoid the trolleys and prams driven by precious mums with an intent to maim, trying to elbow in between rabid pensioners to get a half decent aubergine).

Going to work felt like a battle due to all the bloody congestion.

Being at work felt like a battle due to all the annoying people who ask too many god damned questions.

In the UK, I felt stressed and anxious to the max, not very happy but very much alive.

 

Here I feel relaxed to the point of being comatose and quite happy.

 

I honestly don't know which is better.......

[Surf N Turf]

I think therein lies the crux of the difference between Aus and the UK, and what shapes Aussies and Brits differently. The 'struggle', as you put it, is very real in the UK.

 

Even going down to Tescos in Welwyn felt like a battle (trying to avoid the chavs, trying to avoid the trolleys and prams driven by precious mums with an intent to maim, trying to elbow in between rabid pensioners to get a half decent aubergine).

Going to work felt like a battle due to all the bloody congestion.

Being at work felt like a battle due to all the annoying people who ask too many god damned questions.

In the UK, I felt stressed and anxious to the max, not very happy but very much alive.

 

Here I feel relaxed to the point of being comatose and quite happy.

 

I honestly don't know which is better.......

 

I agree (possibly a first in reading one of your posts Dom!!!) hence the old chestnut that Australia is boring. For those that enjoy the struggle, it is. For those of us who don't, it's mighty fine thank you.

 

I once asked my partner why he thought our daughter would be better off in the UK. Bear in mind that we were living in London at the time. He told me that he thought the 'edginess' was good for her! The very definition of someone who loves the struggle, right there.

[northernbird]

I think therein lies the crux of the difference between Aus and the UK, and what shapes Aussies and Brits differently. The 'struggle', as you put it, is very real in the UK.

 

Even going down to Tescos in Welwyn felt like a battle (trying to avoid the chavs, trying to avoid the trolleys and prams driven by precious mums with an intent to maim, trying to elbow in between rabid pensioners to get a half decent aubergine).

Going to work felt like a battle due to all the bloody congestion.

Being at work felt like a battle due to all the annoying people who ask too many god damned questions.

In the UK, I felt stressed and anxious to the max, not very happy but very much alive.

 

Here I feel relaxed to the point of being comatose and quite happy.

 

I honestly don't know which is better.......

 

I don't often agree with you either but this post echoes my thoughts about where i lived too. During my visit last year, the first in the 6 years I have been living in Australia, I had to leave a trolley full of shopping because I found the pace too fast. Blinkered, thoughtless people who kept banging into me and my child. I miss my Dad, chip shop chips and nothing else.

[fleabo]

My personal view is that coming here has

 

a) limited our kids opportunities in some ways, for example, not being part of a greater social mix as they were back in Scotland.

 

b) increased our kids opportunities in other ways, for example, access to a variety of types of sport that they would not have in Scotland.

 

We neither moved for the weather nor the kids. We moved for the OH who was homesick. So on the whole a neutral exercise as far as the kids are concerned in my opinion. But at the end of the day it is all about how you value each and every aspect of your and your kids lives. We are all different.

[pintpot]

We didn't move here for our son's sake - but if it hadn't been right for him too in some way, or had put him at risk we wouldn't have done it

 

80% of the reason for coming here is economic - my industry is stagnant and has been for nearly 3 years now, and my reading of the situation is that this is going to be the case long-term. At least 5 years and probably the best part of 10. So as a family we can expect our income in real terms and therefore standard of living to drop a bit every year, in the way it has for the past 3 (no pay rises but lots more tax and a fair bit of inflation)

 

I still have significant career ambition (and if i'm honest ambition for the earnings that come with it) and don't want to sit around for all that time - life's too short. So we've come here where the market in my industry is 10x stronger, and therefore the opportunities aren't just better, but much more wide-ranging as well

 

It's not just about money though; Our situation and income here means we can afford to live in a nice place much closer to work, so commuting will be less and family time available much greater. And the outdoor and sporting lifestyle gives us a lot more options too.

 

Having said that, our biggest concern in the whole move was education for our son, as he was in a great school in England that he loved. We've enrolled him this morning in the local primary school which looks nice but very different (better in some ways, not so good in others) and applied for him to go to the private school we think will best suit him next year. When we came over on a reccie in June, if we hadn't been happy with the quality fo education on offer we wouldn't have come

 

Likewise some level of family support; when I was first called up about this job they wanted me to go to Perth, which I turned down flat as we have family in Sydney (and friends in Melbourne) but nobody in WA, even though it would have been twice the money; we didn't want to come all the way to the other side of the world and still not be anywhere near the wife's sister. Melbourne and Brisbane were talked about too, which would have been OK as at least they're feasible for regular weekend visits, but we're very happy they ended up wanting me in HQ in Sydney. I've travelled a lot with work and can go anywhere, but I didn't want to drag my family away from everyone without some back-up and support for them; so in that respect it had to be right "for the kid" too I guess

[Quoll]

Nah, it's one of the biggest furphies propagated on here. Australia isnt going to magically benefit or disadvantage your kids, it is only going to be different. I do think some people believe that the international plane trip is going to raise their kids' IQ points 20% or turn them into Elle McPherson en route.

 

Australia is on a high at the moment compared with some other countries but with incompetent government it could find itself in just the same sort of doldrums now besetting UK - and the Depression in Australia was just as painful as elsewhere in the world so there is no telling what will happen to it if the resource sector goes pear shaped. A crystal ball would be lovely but there is no guarantee that once said kids have reached the end of their schooling that things will be any better.

 

I have one son, born in UK, raised in Aus who has chosen to return to UK because he has had far more opportunities here than he was experiencing in Australia at the time. He has also got on the property ladder which many of his peers have still not been able to do in Aus. His Australian education didnt disadvantage him but he doesnt have particularly fond memories of university - now basically sold as a commodity to students for whom English is a second or third language at best.

 

If Australia offers the parents an adventure and a better opportunity then go for it by all means but bear in mind the isolation from extended family for the kids, that can be a big disadvantage.

[Tulip]

I would much rather have kids in Aus than the UK. My childhood was lovely but it was very English; boring National Trust places (which I love now, but when you're seven they just don't hit the spot) on weekends, boarding school, and a mother that doesn't like to hug. Mark's was so different...running around barefoot to theme parks. BBQs every weekend. Less distraction and more family time. I can't think of anywhere I'd rather raise a child, and we're moving over sooner as oppose to later so that we have the option to move back without uprooting anyone but ourselves.

[Guest Guest16631]

................I think the advantage to your kids is.................that most people can afford to live in an area with better schools[or work or area or even work expectations and advancement]...................than those they left behind...........to be able to attend a school with the parent to teacher ratio and the acedemic achievment....................that we were able to send ours to...................was only affordable for us in australia...........................by OH being able to advance his career and earning potential...........it has benifitted our children...................[most move for a better lifestyle and imo that includes work house and schools]

[theonetruechris]

I'm a bit pessimistic about the future especially with dwindling resources, when the oil does run low / out i thought it would be a good idea to have the family somewhere with resources it was here or canada. Also they can be kids for longer here and aren't assumed to always be up to no good. This was highlighted about a week in where i saw a 'hoodie' queing up at macka's probably 14 ish thought hmmmm theres one for natures scrap heap. Some middle aged guy walks in queues up behind said hoodie. Hoodie strikes up a conversation about the footie. Had that been in england well wouldn't have happened would it?

[ali]

I can't remember ever using that phrase but what my children have is a different life. My son in particular enjoys a very outdoor lifestyle here that he didn't have in the UK. My daughter sees pics of her 16 year old friends at a party and all have them have a bottle/can booze in their hands - here she's been to about a dozen parties this year and not one has had alcohol ... i'm not saying that drinking in young people doesn't happen (I know it does), but my daughter hasn't been exposed to it here and she would have in the UK.

 

My daughter was recommended and placed in an Academic Extension programme here which hadn't been available at her HS in the UK (she's in state not private here).

 

But ... for me the main thing that they've got is more quality time with mum and dad, we spend more time together particularly at weekends, we sit out for dinner for hours on a Saturday night having a meal and chatting rather than them being on the computers.

 

Our move has been a postitive one, which hasn't been measured in materialistic gain, but in an improved quality to our family life.

[Salma]

I have just arrived in Aus with my 7 month old son so he at the moment has no real memory of england. The reason I have moved is due to my husband being aussie and for my son to get to know his Aussie grandparents as he is the only one they have.

 

He has a huge family back in England and I do look at how I grew up and my nephews and neices but hopefully he can gain some sort of bond on visits to england.

[silverbobby]

I think i have been quilty of using the line "a better life for our children" but what i mean by that is probably more of an outdoor life. We are still in the UK so i hope we are happy once we get to Australia. Our children are 5, 3 and 1 years old and now that we are in Autumn and nearly winter i feel the weather/dark nights really restrict what we can do with the kids. The weather can be so wet and cold that the kids won't (or me either) go outside and play after school. You find yourself locked up inside where it's warm and then kids go stir crazy which then irritates us.

 

We don't have any family around to help us, my family is in the North East 220 miles (and 4 hours drive) away and my OH's family is about 1 hour away but their family is not very social following my OH's mother and step-fathers divorce. In short our kids will not miss the extened family benefits that a lot of people talk about. Saying that i (and they) will miss the 3-4 times a year visiting my family and the once every month seeing my OH's mother.

 

i really think that this country is spiralling into dark economic times, taxes are only going to continue to rise with job opportunities stagnant for a long time to come. I have a good job, well enough for my OH not to work and stay at home but we only just get by. i think unless our kids are very gifted at something they will struggle to have a good life when they reach adulthood. I really don't like the way social values are heading in the UK, i don't know if they are better in Oz but hope they are...

[pamdav]

My partner and i are currently in the process of relocating to perth and one of our main reasons for doing so is to try and make a better life for ourselves before we start a family. We've been trying to weigh up the pros and cons. The pros being that there seems to be so much more opportunity with regards to jobs etc. At the moment im working as a staff nurse with the nhs and am not sure how secure my job is. The NHS are making so many cut backs making job security a touchy subject and job satisfaction is pretty much non existent due to increasing workloads and stress. My partner works as a mechanic and he has similar feelings in his job here in Scotland. Another pro is obviously oz's climate, which we feel would promote a more active lifestyle. Our hometown seems to be getting worse and worse and you're lucky if you feel safe enough to let your kids out to play. I appreciate that everywhere has its bad areas but here we are surrounded by drugs and crime. Its no longer surprising to open the local newspaper and read that there have been 3 murders over the weekend. We feel one of the major cons of moving to oz is not being near family and friends. Especially when we do decide to start a family, im not sure how we'll feel about that. We keep telling ourselves that theres a lot more ways of keeping in regular contact now like skype and phonecalls as well as making the effort to visit as often as possible. I love being scottish and am proud to have been brought up here. But times are changing making every day seem more and more like a struggle. Surely theres got to be more to life than this?

[Johndoe]

Nah, it's one of the biggest furphies propagated on here. Australia isnt going to magically benefit or disadvantage your kids,

 

You speak from your perspective. I thought that my post on this subject woukld have illustrated that but you seem only to pass comment based on your experience, whilst dismissing others' out of hand.

 

My kids, had they been riased in the town that I left, would have experienced practically zero youth employment and lived in fear of walking the streets at day, let alone night.

 

I made it clear in my earlier post that some (in a more confortable environment) may fail to empathise with those in a less desirable (UK) environment and therefore fail to see the "moving for the kids" that the OP intended to substantiate. You appear to fall into that category. Financial/educational/job advantage is not the sole reason for emigrating.............or returning.

 

Those who have yet to feel the oppressive nature of sociial deprivation in the UK (even 20 yrs ago, let alone now) could hardly empathise with those who left for that particular reason

 

"I'm alright Jack" seems to still have relevance today...........by all means quote your reasons/experiences, but don't dismiss out of hand the experiences of others by claiming them to be a "furphie"

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

Our main reason for emigrating is for a better future for our kids. Unless you are really rich, or your kids are mega brainy and get into a top university, life after uni is going to be difficult for them, i'm not saying all kids will struggle, but over the last few years its got incredibly more difficult, for youngsters here in the UK to secure a good well paid job, with a good pension and i know it's not a given in Australia that everyone will get a good job, but the feeling i get from family and friends living there, is that if our kids go to uni in Oz, there's more chance of them securing a good well paid job.

[Ken]

An article in yesterday's (London) Evening Standard said it all for me. The school fees at a London primary school are £15,000 per annum (this isn't Eton). The alternative is to send your kids to the state school on the same street where the kids are failing at reading and basic arithmetic. I can't afford either of those options for my kids, so yes I'm moving for the kids.

[Harpersgirl]

I too, will hold my hand up to being one of those who has moved here mainly for the benefit of my children. The fact that our three older ones found GOOD FULL-TIME jobs within a week of looking confirmed this for my husband and myself. This just is not possible in the UK and certainly not rural UK, at this time and I fear will remain difficult for some time to come.

My husband ran a tennis programme from a state sports college in Suffolk and had his budget cut by 10'000 GBP a year....along with the majority of the sports staff at the college. This followed a substantial cull of staff from the school body. We have many friends in state teaching positions across the UK whose schools are all suffering. The educational system in the UK is failing and has done for many years. This influenced our thoughts on our younger children's future in the UK.

I myself worked for a charity who operated within children's centres and worked alongside the local health authority. I saw and experienced budget cuts that severely affected the services on offer to our local population from the cradle to the grave to coin a phrase... :no:

Anyone who thinks that the UK is not in a difficult position is kidding themselves.

Yes it is a global recession but some countries fare better than others and Australia (and particularly WA) is certainly one of those.

I haven't touched on the more favourable climate or the more noticeable leaning towards family and community (the ABC ad: Act, Belong, Commit springs to mind to highlight this point) that is apparent here as I don't particularly want to go on with a damning list against my home country.

[tea4too]

Much as we love Australia, I don’t really believe that we have to move there to give our child a better or happier life. She goes to a good school in the UK and is doing well, is involved in loads of out of school activities, has regular contact with extended family and is growing into a confident well adjusted young adult.

 

I guess her future prospects are tied up with how well the British economy fares over the next decade, but by that time she will hopefully have grown into a mature and confident adult, able to make her own decisions in life.

 

I do understand why some parents might feel that they need to move to Australia for their family, but it’s too much of a sweeping generalisation to suggest or imply that there is no future for any child that remains in the UK. IMHO anyway.

[Perthbum]

My 2 younger kids came over 17 yrs ago when they were ankle biters so they had no real experience of the UK. They have visited the Uk and both have absolutely no wish to return.

 

I also had/have 3 older boys (now men) who, despite a good education, struggled to find work back then and all 3 eventually decided to join the forces if only for the "job security." As it turns out, they've done alright and the Forces and the UK have been good to them.

 

They still speak though of how "unsafe" they felt back then, job wise and personal safety wise, and they say that the personal safety issue still persists, although the towns they live in are nowhere near as bad as where they lived back then.

 

It was because of these issues that we sought the "better life" for our youngest. They have never felt unsafe here, and their future is nowhere near as bleak as it was for my 3 oldest.

 

So, the "better life" that we sought (for our kids) was based on personal safety and job (prospect) security.

 

Perhaps if we had lived in a safer environment (location) in the UK we may not have had to seek out a new life.

 

Those who have never experienced high crime areas and job insecurity and fail to recognise that many do, would likely have no idea why we, and the other PIO members living nearby who are now our friends, feel/felt the way we do.The Pommy friends that we've made via this forum all seem to have come here for exactly the same reasons as ourselves, bar a couple who came on the offer of better salaries ie financial reasons.

Where were you and your children in the UK? I have never ever felt unsafe in the UK and I have lived and worked in Th east end of London, crime statistics show OZ and the UK are about the same.

I think the excuse that people are leaving the UK because of crime is a bit far fetched.

At the end of the day a child will grow up fine in Oz or the UK as long as they have good parents and plenty of love.

I look around and kids are just as happy and full of life as they are in Oz in fact I see more kids on playing fields her playing football and rugby than I did in Oz, the football pitches are rammed with kids at the weekends where I live, I never witnessed that much in perth.