Caught in the Middle

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

I would really counsel that you wait to see how brexit plays out before you do anything irrevocable.

And really check out the business scene back here and the higher education situation.

But the thing is, if it's  a matter of "where you feel you belong", then does any of that matter?   

It always worries me when I see people who stay in Australia because they're better off financially, even though they're longing to "go home".   Too often they think they will move back when they retire, only to find it's not so easy because of pensions, or settled children, and then they're stuck where they don't want to be, and miserable in their old age.  

I'm a strong believer that living where you're happy is far more important than money.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Marisawright

[s713]

16 hours ago, Welshy said:

I lived in Manchester years ago and I felt the same way, I then moved there in 2011 with my (now) wife, that summer it rained every single day, Manchester gets a lot of rain due to it's proximity to the Pennines, the humid air rises up, condenses and then dumps rain (on Manchester) 

We had an apartment right by Old Trafford (handy for the games) and my wife (who's Polish) said it was the most depressing place she's ever lived with dirty red bricked warehouse style buildings everywhere, we moved after 6 months. 

It has some nice restaurants, Salford Quays is nice now with media city and it's very modern, Didsbury is quite nice although expensive.

You wont have the outdoor lifestyle you have in Oz in the UK and you'll be limited to a few BBQs a year, you'll also never swim in the sea (unless you're frankly insane) as it's so cold.

All the very best with your decision.

Thanks.

I don't swim in the sea here. Or have BBQs. Not a good enough swimmer for here, the rips at Perth's Northern beaches are way too strong. That's without getting to the apex predators, a shark closed Mullaloo the other day. Not fussed on BBQs, had about half a dozen in 11 years.

I do like walks though so I'll need to buy a nice coat!

[newjez]

4 hours ago, Marisawright said:

But the thing is, if it's  a matter of "where you feel you belong", then does any of that matter?   

It always worries me when I see people who stay in Australia because they're better off financially, even though they're longing to "go home".   Too often they think they will move back when they retire, only to find it's not so easy because of pensions, or settled children, and then they're stuck where they don't want to be, and miserable in their old age.  

I'm a strong believer that living where you're happy is far more important than money.

Money won't make a bad situation good, but lack of money can make a good situation bad.

It is important, as you stated from a pension point of view in your first post, and especially considering students fees. But you want to avoid migrating into a recession if you can, as it can be very stressful.

[Guest]

I am a huge supporter of 'if you don't feel like you belong somewhere' and you have the ways and means to go where you do feel at home you should definitely trust and act on this instinct. It is a strong instinct, usually right. Doesn't mean it won't change but perhaps right for now.  Some people don't 'feel at home' in Australia and go forth to the UK (can't go 'back', as 'back' doesn't exist). Some find after the initial excitement is over they then find they are unsettled when they move there too and move on again - sometimes it's over to Australia again, sometimes somewhere else in the world, sometimes somewhere else in the UK. Some love it being in the UK and that is that, right decision for them.

Although, I do agree in this case perhaps just holding on a wee bit more to see how BREXIT plays out may be a wise thing. It doesn't mean holding on for years and years - perhaps even until mid/end 2019 if you can. Although we obviously won't know the true effects of BREXIT (if it happens) for a while, there might be more clarity to the situation.  I do agree with the effects of having no money in a place, even if you feel at home, might not make the situation a nice one and could lead to a very stressful existence. I guess just do you research, plan, save, save again and if you can, perhaps consider to pop it on ice for a wee bit. Oh and save again

Wish you the best in your future travels wherever in the world that may be.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Guest

[Amber Snowball]

University international fees in the UK are eye watering. Even home fees without access to government help are proper dear. So even if you could get home fees from the uni you’d be unlikely to get approval for government loans without the 3 years residency and have to pay up front.

I found primary and secondary schools in Australia fantastic. Universities useless. I really couldn’t recommend them to anyone. Disorganised, uninformed, false advertising, just poxy. Now I have no idea if UK unis are any better, they were when I went years ago but no recent experience to compare.

As with many things, it’s the money that matters.

I find it easier to live a bit cheaper in the UK in terms of access to cheaper food and groceries so can save a bit of money that way if needed, but because I find the choice and quality better I can also spend waayyyy more than needed as well!

It’s not an easy decision when you are older with responsibility and limited working life left. I’ll be honest I really didn’t give brexit a second thought, that might have been a mistake I don’t know....

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Amber Snowball said:

 a bit cheaper in the UK in terms of access to cheaper food and groceries so can save a bit of money that way if needed

Oh my gosh, I totally agree! We spend quite a bit more here (Brisbane) each week in food shopping. Pretty much eat the same, a few tweaks. We will start visiting markets on a weekend for fresh fruit and veg come next year (that would be tomorrow ) as I hear it's much better (and cheaper) than the supermarkets.

I would say I find the meat far superior in Australia. Not sure what exactly it is. Just tastes better I guess, fresher - hard to put into words! My OH thinks it's very difficult to get a bad meal here - not saying they're all excellent but "good to very good to excellent". He felt in Scotland it could really be hit and miss. I'm not sure I agree but he did eat out a lot more than me to be fair. I miss the Scottish traditional food. Yes you can make it here but it just is not the same!

Happy Hogmanay everyone by the way!

Edited December 31, 2018 by Guest

[Amber Snowball]

38 minutes ago, Ozzie said:

Oh my gosh, I totally agree! We spend quite a bit more here (Brisbane) each week in food shopping. Pretty much eat the same, a few tweaks. We will start visiting markets on a weekend for fresh fruit and veg come next year (that would be tomorrow ) as I hear it's much better (and cheaper) than the supermarkets.

I would say I find the meat far superior in Australia. Not sure what exactly it is. Just tastes better I guess, fresher - hard to put into words! My OH thinks it's very difficult to get a bad meal here - not saying they're all excellent but "good to very good to excellent". He felt in Scotland it could really be hit and miss. I'm not sure I agree but he did eat out a lot more than me to be fair. I miss the Scottish traditional food. Yes you can make it here but it just is not the same!

Happy Hogmanay everyone by the way!

I thought the meat was tasteless, badly slaughtered and badly butchered,  in Victoria at least. I think it depends on the person and maybe the state as lots of people in Qld seem to like the meat. I was almost vegetarian in Australia! It was tender because it was slaughtered young but no taste to me and God knows I tried to find good stuff. Recommended butchers, markets, tried em all. Should have tried Qld! 

Having said that unzippy had some good looking steaks a few months ago on here, so maybe I just never went to the right places.

Again I didn’t find the farmers markets cheaper either. Maybe Victoria is just a big, old rip off! 

The restaurant food was often good so I think the best stuff went to them tbh.

Glad you are settling in and enjoying it. Good reason to eat out more!

[Quoll]

8 minutes ago, Amber Snowball said:

I thought the meat was tasteless, badly slaughtered and badly butchered,  in Victoria at least. I think it depends on the person and maybe the state as lots of people in Qld seem to like the meat. I was almost vegetarian in Australia! It was tender because it was slaughtered young but no taste to me and God knows I tried to find good stuff. Recommended butchers, markets, tried em all. Should have tried Qld! 

Having said that unzippy had some good looking steaks a few months ago on here, so maybe I just never went to the right places.

Again I didn’t find the farmers markets cheaper either. Maybe Victoria is just a big, old rip off! 

The restaurant food was often good so I think the best stuff went to them tbh.

Glad you are settling in and enjoying it. Good reason to eat out more!

I think my DH would agree with you! He finds the meat here in UK much  better than the comparable offerings in ACT - he's very much a paleo person after 3 decades of vegetarianism and he's a stalwart of our local butchers - we've had some amazing really tasty stuff from them (I'd forgotten how fantastic meat can taste when a good piece is cooked well) and they give him free bones (is a paleo thing!). He used to patronise a bloke at the Canberra markets who did good lamb but he now prefers the local village butcher - we never get it from supermarkets in either place.

I really don't think there's much to choose between the two countries restaurant wise - we've had good, bad and indifferent all over. I think yesterday's meal at the Oxo Tower probably takes the blue ribbon for eye watering cost thus far but we haven't done much fine dining in Australia of late of course. One thing that really irritates me about dining out in Australia is how few places can actually manage cream with coffee. I've had all sorts from the "are you American? We call it milk" through to a pile of whipped cream in a dish. 

Off to find a nice restaurant for dinner tonight now! On NYE it might be a challenge but we eat early! 

Happy New Year!!!

[newjez]

On 25/12/2018 at 03:37, Jamwolf said:

We emigrated from London to Perth in 2004 - combination of career issues, having a couple of young kids who we didnt want to bring up in the rat race, and simple wanderlust. Kids now 17 and 15- the older will probably spread his wings to Europe, the younger may be more of a homebird. Perth has delivered on the “great place to bring up kids”, but nobody tells you what to do when they start to grow up ! Both sets of parents are still alive in UK, in their early 80s.

We are going through the motions in Perth now, although there’s much to like about the weather and ease of life. We have the same issues as others in the difficulty making good friends, lack of roots etc. Neither my wife or I want Perth to be the final stop on the life journey.

 I’m 54, self employed, and I don’t kid myself that life would be so easy job/business wise on our return. It’s silly, but it would hurt me from a pride level too - we were in better shape when we left 14 years ago. If we returned, it would probably be to my home city Manchester. Mixed feeling whether it would be a great feeling to rediscover my roots, or end up “walking with ghosts.” 

The bottom line is that our hearts tell us that it’s time to return home, but our heads tell us that it’s too soon (or too late !), especially with the boys at the age they are and economically. 

Sorry to waffle on, but I’d appreciate any insights from readers. 

Have you visited the UK recently jamwolf?

When my parents dragged us back to the UK back in 75, it took my father about a minute to realise why he'd left. I swear he was planning his departure the minute his feet touched the ground. We returned to Australia a year later.

Possibly a long visit could be a good idea.

Kids are tricky ages. I've always said Perth is a great place to raise kids, but they are at a loss after they turn 15. So easy to get into the drink and drugs scene. I know that happens in other places too, but Perth especially can be a void between the ages of 15 to 25 (and yes, there are exceptions but that doesn't really help the op)

After 14 years people can't say you didn't try. But you know moving back won't be easy, and you will hold yourself responsible for whatever happens, hence I suggest a trip just to see if it really is for you.

Edited December 31, 2018 by newjez

[Guest]

I really enjoyed the meat from Morrisons (the UK supermarket). I don't know why (should have asked really!) but it was soooo much better than other supermarkets. We only used a butcher in the UK once or twice as found the meat great but very expensive (rightly so, it's a massively tiring job). Perhaps my taste buds have changed here! I don't know what it is, perhaps there is something different in the way it's prepared or something. I just know that I prefer it here - wish I could put it into words, but I just can't! Apologies to the OP for taking this thread off course a wee bit by the way!

Regarding the restaurants - I think my OH had the opinion as he's had bad and very bad meals in Scotland but hasn't had a bad one here - simply good to excellent. As I say, not sure I fully agree but he has a lot more experience eating out than me. I am really enjoying the Asian inspired foods here in Brisbane - soooo great! So much choice and meals I'd never heard of before. Trying to be more adventurous!

@Amber Snowball thank you for your lovely comments, I'm not sure about 'settled' but it's OK 'for now'. ..... 2019 we will see! I still pine after Scotland and still adore it. I'm not shy to say I absolutely prefer Scotland but trying to experience as much as I can out here for the moment. So many great new experiences/places to see.

Hope everyone is having a great Hogmanay! We're at home tonight - as you do with a wee one, currently watching 'Batteries Not Included', anyone remember that! What rock and roll lifestyles we lead!

[Bumblebee]

3 hours ago, Ozzie said:

currently watching 'Batteries Not Included', anyone remember that! What rock and roll lifestyles we lead!

Love it! A classic. I agree - how NYE changes with kids lol! I spent the evening packing for my move back!

Happy new year everyone!

[LKC]

6 hours ago, Ozzie said:

I really enjoyed the meat from Morrisons (the UK supermarket). I don't know why (should have asked really!) but it was soooo much better than other supermarkets. We only used a butcher in the UK once or twice as found the meat great but very expensive (rightly so, it's a massively tiring job). Perhaps my taste buds have changed here! I don't know what it is, perhaps there is something different in the way it's prepared or something. I just know that I prefer it here - wish I could put it into words, but I just can't! Apologies to the OP for taking this thread off course a wee bit by the way!

Regarding the restaurants - I think my OH had the opinion as he's had bad and very bad meals in Scotland but hasn't had a bad one here - simply good to excellent. As I say, not sure I fully agree but he has a lot more experience eating out than me. I am really enjoying the Asian inspired foods here in Brisbane - soooo great! So much choice and meals I'd never heard of before. Trying to be more adventurous!

@Amber Snowball thank you for your lovely comments, I'm not sure about 'settled' but it's OK 'for now'. ..... 2019 we will see! I still pine after Scotland and still adore it. I'm not shy to say I absolutely prefer Scotland but trying to experience as much as I can out here for the moment. So many great new experiences/places to see.

Hope everyone is having a great Hogmanay! We're at home tonight - as you do with a wee one, currently watching 'Batteries Not Included', anyone remember that! What rock and roll lifestyles we lead!

We're in Scotland, and absolutely love it! We aren't from Scotland, but ended up here when we moved back to the UK due to OH's work. OH and I have actually separated, and have both decided to stay here because we love it so much! Best place I've ever lived! The weather doesn't stop us doing anything, we just dress appropriately and get out. We've all made so many friends here, it couldn't be more different to Australia in that regard, and I am truly thankful that we settled here before we separated, because it would have been infinitely worse if I'd had to do it without the support of my amazing friends. Moving to Scotland was the single best thing I've ever done!

[Welshy]

If you’re handing yours back then please feel free to pass it to us [emoji4]

[Toots]

4 hours ago, LKC said:

We're in Scotland, and absolutely love it! We aren't from Scotland, but ended up here when we moved back to the UK due to OH's work. OH and I have actually separated, and have both decided to stay here because we love it so much! Best place I've ever lived! The weather doesn't stop us doing anything, we just dress appropriately and get out. We've all made so many friends here, it couldn't be more different to Australia in that regard, and I am truly thankful that we settled here before we separated, because it would have been infinitely worse if I'd had to do it without the support of my amazing friends. Moving to Scotland was the single best thing I've ever done!

I am so pleased that you are enjoying life in Scotland.  It's a great place.    My sister is staying with us for a few weeks from Edinburgh.

Have a very merry Hogmany and best wishes for 2019.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, LKC said:

We're in Scotland, and absolutely love it! We aren't from Scotland, but ended up here when we moved back to the UK due to OH's work. OH and I have actually separated, and have both decided to stay here because we love it so much! Best place I've ever lived! The weather doesn't stop us doing anything, we just dress appropriately and get out. We've all made so many friends here, it couldn't be more different to Australia in that regard, and I am truly thankful that we settled here before we separated, because it would have been infinitely worse if I'd had to do it without the support of my amazing friends. Moving to Scotland was the single best thing I've ever done!

It's an awesome country isn't it! Yes, I know I'm biased but I just love it. It used to make me furious when I heard of non-Scots slate it (all drunken, toothless, non-vegetable eating slobs aren't we) until you've lived there and seen how magical the landscape it, you just don't know! But shhhh don't tell everyone, they'll all want to come live there!

[Marisawright]

18 hours ago, Ozzie said:

Although, I do agree in this case perhaps just holding on a wee bit more to see how BREXIT plays out may be a wise thing. It doesn't mean holding on for years and years - perhaps even until mid/end 2019 if you can.

@Jamwolf, I would just say - please don't take this as an excuse to put it off.  At your age and with your kids at the stage they are, you may find a delay of even a few months makes the difference between the possible and the impossible.  I'm not saying it would in your case, but if you don't do the research now, you won't know.

In particular, look at your children's likely pathway.  If you wait a couple of years, are you happy moving while your youngest is doing their HSC?   But then you can't leave after the HSC, because you can't afford the full fees for a UK university (there are residency rules).

So you'll have to stay in Australia until your youngest has finished university.  What if, at uni, they meet an Aussie and get married. Are you still moving back to the UK?  How would your other half feel about moving away from your child and possible grandchildren? I know that's hard to think about when they're only 15, but it just shows how one delay can lead to another that leads to another, and suddenly you're stuck.  

Edited January 1, 2019 by Marisawright

[Toots]

3 hours ago, Ozzie said:

It's an awesome country isn't it! Yes, I know I'm biased but I just love it. It used to make me furious when I heard of non-Scots slate it (all drunken, toothless, non-vegetable eating slobs aren't we) until you've lived there and seen how magical the landscape it, you just don't know! But shhhh don't tell everyone, they'll all want to come live there!

I never saw that side of it.  The only wee bit of a downside as far as I am concerned is that a lot of people have moved to the area I come from in Scotland from the south of England and are paying top price for houses so it is hard for young locals to buy.  I also get a bit peeved when a lot of houses are bought as 'holiday homes' and are only lived in during holiday periods, sitting empty for the rest of the year.  A little house outside the village where I was brought up has just sold for nearly 400,000 pounds.  Nothing fancy, just a pretty ordinary house albeit built from granite as most of the houses are.

[s713]

20 hours ago, newjez said:

Kids are tricky ages. I've always said Perth is a great place to raise kids, but they are at a loss after they turn 15. So easy to get into the drink and drugs scene. I know that happens in other places too, but Perth especially can be a void between the ages of 15 to 25 (and yes, there are exceptions but that doesn't really help the op)

100%.

[Guest]

On 01/01/2019 at 11:00, Marisawright said:

@Jamwolf, I would just say - please don't take this as an excuse to put it off.  At your age and with your kids at the stage they are, you may find a delay of even a few months makes the difference between the possible and the impossible.  I'm not saying it would in your case, but if you don't do the research now, you won't know.

In particular, look at your children's likely pathway.  If you wait a couple of years, are you happy moving while your youngest is doing their HSC?   But then you can't leave after the HSC, because you can't afford the full fees for a UK university (there are residency rules).

So you'll have to stay in Australia until your youngest has finished university.  What if, at uni, they meet an Aussie and get married. Are you still moving back to the UK?  How would your other half feel about moving away from your child and possible grandchildren? I know that's hard to think about when they're only 15, but it just shows how one delay can lead to another that leads to another, and suddenly you're stuck.  

Thanks for trying again Marsawright to make my posts look stupid. Yup, that's how I feel. I try to give balanced advice based on experience or knowledge and you plus others jump on it because my view differs from yours. You try to make an example of me, use my posts to show others how silly and wrong someone can be.  I actually said mid 2019 which is but a few months to research and think about things rather than jump into anything. Research over a few months is not a bad thing in anyone's books if you're planning such a big move.

You reference the OP not taking 'a couple of years' which I did not say in my post.

I feel like certain people try to make me an example of how stupid "looks". Thanks for that. You got your way, I feel rubbish now, low, bullied and extremely stupid, again. I've only just managed to bring myself out of years of PND and feel myself slipping back into this again. You can pretend you don't know what you're doing but you do. I do notice other people 'liking' my posts which have been used as an example of 'stupidity'. Thanks also to you.

I have had such amazing advice on this site over the years and I'm so grateful to those who helped. I was trying to be helpful to others to give something back.

I've asked for my account to be closed.

Apologies to the OP. I tried to speak from my heart and give advice that I thought would be beneficial. I'm not sure what is so wrong with waiting a few months to do your research, save a bit of extra cash and wait to see if March 2019 does bring any massive changes. I do wish you the best and hope you are able to make an informed decision that is right for you and your family.

I won't be logging in or going onto this site again so any responses or thread responses (like button etc.) won't be read.

[Marisawright]

11 minutes ago, Ozzie said:

Thanks for trying again Marsawright to make my posts look stupid. Yup, that's how I feel. I try to give balanced advice based on experience or knowledge and you plus others jump on it because my view differs from yours. You try to make an example of me, use my posts to show others how silly and wrong someone can be.  I actually said mid 2019 which is but a few months to research and think about things

I'm so sorry you feel like that, it was not my intention at all. You expressed one opinion and I expressed another, and we are both entitled to our views   I can only apologise as I had no intention of disparaging anyone.

[ali]

1 hour ago, Ozzie said:

Thanks for trying again Marsawright to make my posts look stupid. Yup, that's how I feel. I try to give balanced advice based on experience or knowledge and you plus others jump on it because my view differs from yours. You try to make an example of me, use my posts to show others how silly and wrong someone can be.  I actually said mid 2019 which is but a few months to research and think about things rather than jump into anything. Research over a few months is not a bad thing in anyone's books if you're planning such a big move.

You reference the OP not taking 'a couple of years' which I did not say in my post.

I feel like certain people try to make me an example of how stupid "looks". Thanks for that. You got your way, I feel rubbish now, low, bullied and extremely stupid, again. I've only just managed to bring myself out of years of PND and feel myself slipping back into this again. You can pretend you don't know what you're doing but you do. I do notice other people 'liking' my posts which have been used as an example of 'stupidity'. Thanks also to you.

I have had such amazing advice on this site over the years and I'm so grateful to those who helped. I was trying to be helpful to others to give something back.

I've asked for my account to be closed.

Apologies to the OP. I tried to speak from my heart and give advice that I thought would be beneficial. I'm not sure what is so wrong with waiting a few months to do your research, save a bit of extra cash and wait to see if March 2019 does bring any massive changes. I do wish you the best and hope you are able to make an informed decision that is right for you and your family.

I won't be logging in or going onto this site again so any responses or thread responses (like button etc.) won't be read.

I hope you reconsider and stay on PIO x

[tea4too]

Don’t leave @Ozzie. Without body language or voice tone it can be difficult to really know the intentions behind a post, and I speak from experience having previously fallen foul of a clearly upset poster when I questioned something they had written. At the time I wasn’t sure whether they had misread my post or vice versa (maybe a bit of both), but it’s often simpler to assume one or other of you is just having a bad day. 

 I would add though, for what it’s worth, that I see @Marisawright as one of the more genuine and balanced posters on here, and having been on the forum for a while can honestly say there has been a fair share of passive aggressive, and downright aggressive, posters. Maybe take a break and come back when you are ready? Your own thoughts and views are as valid as anyone else’s, and having been though the migration process yourself you have a huge amount of personal experience to draw on when offering reassurance or advice to others. Which is more than I can say, yet nearly 8 years after stumbling across the forum I am still here because, despite the ups and downs, most people who post are decent folk with something interesting to say. T x

[LKC]

On 01/01/2019 at 00:30, Ozzie said:

It's an awesome country isn't it! Yes, I know I'm biased but I just love it. It used to make me furious when I heard of non-Scots slate it (all drunken, toothless, non-vegetable eating slobs aren't we) until you've lived there and seen how magical the landscape it, you just don't know! But shhhh don't tell everyone, they'll all want to come live there!

Yes, it is awesome, and I am so happy that we moved here! I feel totally at home, have been made very welcome, and can't imagine wanting to live anywhere else! I'm looking forwards to getting out and about a bit more in this coming year, meeting new people, doing new things and enjoying the new life that we have.

[Saurer Pfirsich]

On 31/12/2018 at 12:33, Marisawright said:

But the thing is, if it's  a matter of "where you feel you belong", then does any of that matter?   

It always worries me when I see people who stay in Australia because they're better off financially, even though they're longing to "go home".   Too often they think they will move back when they retire, only to find it's not so easy because of pensions, or settled children, and then they're stuck where they don't want to be, and miserable in their old age.  

I'm a strong believer that living where you're happy is far more important than money.

You're describing me there. I wouldn't say that I'm longing to go home, but I am looking forward to retiring in the UK. For us, residing in Australia is very much a pragmatic decision based upon salaries, mortgage affordability,  level of savings etc. We'd have returned home several years ago but for the public sector cuts which have seen pay freezes and a serious absence of career options there in our fields (psychology and social work). Melbourne offers us a comfortable lifestyle in a nice suburb which offsets the fact that neither of us have any real interest in the place. As parents it would feel a bit indulgent of us to return to the UK if we couldn't offer our kids the same kind of quality of life there as they currently enjoy here. 

Staying here means that we can enjoy a comfortable reirement, whereas going home before then would jeopardise that. I take your point about people feeling 'stuck' because of kids/grandkids etc and we've acknowledged that this might be a factor for us. Equally, it might not. Our oldest is British born and continually says she wants to go home. She might do that, she might meet a British  partner and stay there, or she might never leave Melbourne. We might be quite comfortable with living on the other side of the world from them, or we might limit our UK time to say 3-6 months a year if our health allows. The most important thing though is that you have to have the funds in place to be able to follow your dream, and to be able to pay for our dream that means staying in Australia until retirement age.

 

 

[Saurer Pfirsich]

On 31/12/2018 at 16:15, s713 said:

Thanks.

I don't swim in the sea here. Or have BBQs. Not a good enough swimmer for here, the rips at Perth's Northern beaches are way too strong. That's without getting to the apex predators, a shark closed Mullaloo the other day. Not fussed on BBQs, had about half a dozen in 11 years.

I do like walks though so I'll need to buy a nice coat!

I'm always a bit perplexed when people lob the old 'outdoors lifestyle' / beach and BBQ thing into the conversation with potential returnees like it's some kind of knock out blow! For us as a family those things just aren't factors in our lives here. I can't remember the last time we had a BBQ. Our nearest beach is St Kilda and that's an area best avoided for all kinds of reasons, and I was a keen fell-walker back in the U.K., whereas I seldom leave Melbourne these days unless it's for a trip home or to Tasmania. That's not being disrespectful to the many, many folk who love the whole beach/pool/BBQ experience, but equally it doesn't cut it with everyone.