Caught in the Middle

[Jamwolf]

We emigrated from London to Perth in 2004 - combination of career issues, having a couple of young kids who we didnt want to bring up in the rat race, and simple wanderlust. Kids now 17 and 15- the older will probably spread his wings to Europe, the younger may be more of a homebird. Perth has delivered on the “great place to bring up kids”, but nobody tells you what to do when they start to grow up ! Both sets of parents are still alive in UK, in their early 80s.

We are going through the motions in Perth now, although there’s much to like about the weather and ease of life. We have the same issues as others in the difficulty making good friends, lack of roots etc. Neither my wife or I want Perth to be the final stop on the life journey.

 I’m 54, self employed, and I don’t kid myself that life would be so easy job/business wise on our return. It’s silly, but it would hurt me from a pride level too - we were in better shape when we left 14 years ago. If we returned, it would probably be to my home city Manchester. Mixed feeling whether it would be a great feeling to rediscover my roots, or end up “walking with ghosts.” 

The bottom line is that our hearts tell us that it’s time to return home, but our heads tell us that it’s too soon (or too late !), especially with the boys at the age they are and economically. 

Sorry to waffle on, but I’d appreciate any insights from readers. 

[Marisawright]

If you don't see yourself spending the rest of your life in Australia, go back right now.  Don't let pride hold you back.

I say go now, because if you leave it too long, you may stuff up your entitlement to the British aged pension.  Meanwhile, if you leave Australia before retirement age (whatever that will be by that time - 67?  68?) then you won't be able to claim the Australian govt pension at all, not even pro rata.     If you've got a healthy private pension you may not care about that, but it's important to be aware of it.  

 

 

[Quoll]

You may be past the point of no return but never say never. You either go now while you can get your youngest into further education without penalty (international student fees, A levels etc) or you wait until your youngest has  done with uni and risk that they won't want to return with you. If your eldest is heading for Uni you might think of leaving them alone to finish that in Australia and hope that they do do decide their future lies on Europe.

Never think of a move forward (you can never go back to what you had) as a failure, it's just another step in a life adventure. Why would your pride be shaken by it? 

Life is too short to be living where you don't want to be, step on to the next adventure and have a go.

[Guest]

I find it good to focus the brain this way, if somehow the option to move(/stay) in either Australia or to the UK was removed - which option would you truly be more upset about? If you're truly honest with yourself you'll find the answer.

[Rosiegirl]

We are in the same situation.  Almost went back 2 years ago - I had a job lined up and my children were 15 and 18.  However while we were over there we spoke to the uni where my eldest wanted to go and we did indeed need to pay international fees, also both me and my partner was/are earning more here and we just thought we would be going backwards - we are better off financially here but not socially.   There is only the 4 of us here - all family are in the UK.  Our plan for the moment is to build up our savings, pay off the mortgage and possibly go over in 5 years when my partner will be 59.  Both children are bored with Perth and say that they will come with us but of course there are no guarantees.  We are thinking of retiring in europe where we may be able to draw Australian pension when the time comes.

[Jamwolf]

Thanks everyone for your comments. Some really helpful insights. Ozzie, that is a great way to look at it. I think you know my answer !

I've got to get the finances in order, then I think the decision will become a little clearer. 

[Quoll]

6 minutes ago, Jamwolf said:

Thanks everyone for your comments. Some really helpful insights. Ozzie, that is a great way to look at it. I think you know my answer !

I've got to get the finances in order, then I think the decision will become a little clearer. 

As time is slipping away from you you could start to preempt things maybe by getting your youngest settled back in school living with friends /rellies before the rest of the family move back - you might even be able to swing it  for your eldest the same way - couple of years in college then a gap year before uni if that's the way they want to go.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Quoll

[Bumblebee]

On 25/12/2018 at 18:01, Quoll said:

Never think of a move forward (you can never go back to what you had) as failure.

Oh I LOVE this! Its so true. Its not going back at all. Yes back to a place but its not time travel - its not going back to what any of us had before. And I'm hoping that's the beauty of returning - its a NEW adventure, not returning to the past.

[starlight7]

Yes, I agree too. Nothing stays the same and to return is not to return to something you had before - it will be a new start and a new life for you.

[Welshy]

Sorry to read this and how you're missing the UK. 

For me, I'd look at all of the positives of where you are. For us we are looking to leave the UK. Memories are often 'rose tinted' and you remember things in a different light to the reality of being there in the moment (when you were in the UK) 

Manchester has changed beyond belief and is now a mini metropolis, the roads are more congested than you remember them and it's definitley as grey and wet as you remember. 

We've been to Oz many times and honestly, IMHO its a far better place to live than the UK,. Your parents are in their 80's and (with respect) wont be around much longer. Ask yourself if you moved back would your day to day be better? I'd seriously doubt it and why people make the trip you did in 2004 and leave the UK in droves.

I'd personally rather the sun on my back in my retirement than being cooped up in the house in front of the TV.

Good luck with your decision.

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Welshy said:

For me, I'd look at all of the positives of where you are. For us we are looking to leave the UK. Memories are often 'rose tinted' and you remember things in a different light to the reality of being there in the moment (when you were in the UK) 

Manchester has changed beyond belief and is now a mini metropolis, the roads are more congested than you remember them and it's definitley as grey and wet as you remember. 

We've been to Oz many times and honestly, IMHO its a far better place to live than the UK,

Unfortunately it's not as simple as that.  You can look at all the logical reasons why Australia is "better" but at the end of the day, logic is not what matters.  It's where you feel at home that matters. 

There's several threads on these forums by people who came to Australia, didn't like it, and are absolutely thrilled to be back in the UK again, grey clouds or not.  People may leave the UK in droves but about half of them do end up going home, though you may find that hard to believe now!  

Personally, I prefer Australia, but I do know that it's very much a matter of personal preference.  It's not a black-and-white case of one country being better than the other.

[Quoll]

1 hour ago, Welshy said:

Sorry to read this and how you're missing the UK. 

For me, I'd look at all of the positives of where you are. For us we are looking to leave the UK. Memories are often 'rose tinted' and you remember things in a different light to the reality of being there in the moment (when you were in the UK) 

Manchester has changed beyond belief and is now a mini metropolis, the roads are more congested than you remember them and it's definitley as grey and wet as you remember. 

We've been to Oz many times and honestly, IMHO its a far better place to live than the UK,. Your parents are in their 80's and (with respect) wont be around much longer. Ask yourself if you moved back would your day to day be better? I'd seriously doubt it and why people make the trip you did in 2004 and leave the UK in droves.

I'd personally rather the sun on my back in my retirement than being cooped up in the house in front of the TV.

Good luck with your decision.

Must be lovely to have your rose tints on when moving in either direction. As has been said, sometimes there no accounting for taste. If you don't belong, despite all the logic in the world, your life can be crap! Personally I'd rather not be broiled alive and develop skin like a sharpei and to have more interesting things to do in my retirement than being cooped up in air conditioned comfort just to get through every day. But I guess you'll never know until you try it huh?!

As for 80 year old parents, nope, they won't be around forever and if you can live with yourself for being in the other side of the world and letting them founder in in their increasing frailty then you're more hard hearted than this hard hearted Hannah!  Sometimes your conscience tells you that easing their path through their latest years is the right thing to do. 

There's no right and wrong, we are all different and what floats one man's boat is likely to sink another! 

[Tulip1]

You have to follow your heart but know that moving the kids at their age is very hard on them. It’s a shame that you didn’t decide about fours ago as it would have been a bit easier on the kids. Good luck in whatever you choose 

[Chortlepuss]

Getting to my late 50’s now and hoping to retire at least part Year in UK. After 11 years of hot weather, I’ve come to the realisation that I prefer the seasons and the occasional treat of summer sun - and Warm sun is a short flight away if you want it. Watching latest season of ‘cold feet’ made me want to get to know Manchester better (I’m from the south east) - funny what appeals after all these years. My grown up daughter definitely wants to stay in Oz though and my son is undecided so that will be a wrench. I miss the company of family and good friends and stimulating conversation - it’s so pleasant here but I’m a natural introvert and don’t fit here...each time I slip back to the UK it’s lovely to belong. For many this doesn’t matter but I don’t fancy a lonely retirement here - however beautiful it is.

[Parley]

There are countless stories on PIO of people who felt like you.

Went back and then realised it was a horrendous (almost fatal financially) mistake and are back in Australia within 2 years.

So do be careful.

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, Parley said:

There are countless stories on PIO of people who felt like you.

Went back and then realised it was a horrendous (almost fatal financially) mistake and are back in Australia within 2 years.

So do be careful.

...but equally there are people who went back, love it, and regret having delayed their return for so long.

[Toots]

3 hours ago, Chortlepuss said:

Getting to my late 50’s now and hoping to retire at least part Year in UK. After 11 years of hot weather, I’ve come to the realisation that I prefer the seasons and the occasional treat of summer sun - and Warm sun is a short flight away if you want it. Watching latest season of ‘cold feet’ made me want to get to know Manchester better (I’m from the south east) - funny what appeals after all these years. My grown up daughter definitely wants to stay in Oz though and my son is undecided so that will be a wrench. I miss the company of family and good friends and stimulating conversation - it’s so pleasant here but I’m a natural introvert and don’t fit here...each time I slip back to the UK it’s lovely to belong. For many this doesn’t matter but I don’t fancy a lonely retirement here - however beautiful it is.

I have friends (from my school days) who migrated to Canada many years ago.  Some of them never settled there either and are going back to Scotland when they retire.  Others are happy to stay for ever.  Reading this forum over the past few years it seems to apply to folk who migrated to Australia too.  

We are lucky in Tasmania as we get four proper seasons.  Take today for example - the mainland is having a heatwave.  41 in Adelaide, 36 in Melbourne and Canberra.  Here it is 21 at the moment and is forecast to reach 24.  I love it - even our winters.  I get out every day no matter what the weather is like.  I've made friends everywhere we have lived.  Like you I am an introvert and never crave companionship but it's nice to have people whose company I enjoy.  I always seem to meet people with whom I have a lot in common.   Perhaps I have struck lucky and I wouldn't live back permanently in the UK now.  I feel I fit in here.

Best wishes for your move back to the UK - nothing better than feeling at peace with yourself wherever you live.

[s713]

On 26/12/2018 at 20:07, Welshy said:

For me, I'd look at all of the positives of where you are. For us we are looking to leave the UK. Memories are often 'rose tinted' and you remember things in a different light to the reality of being there in the moment (when you were in the UK) 

Manchester has changed beyond belief and is now a mini metropolis, the roads are more congested than you remember them and it's definitley as grey and wet as you remember.

That's true. But I was in Manchester not long ago and there's a vibrancy about the place that can't be matched over here. A proper buzz, doesn't happen here.

[Marisawright]

58 minutes ago, s713 said:

That's true. But I was in Manchester not long ago and there's a vibrancy about the place that can't be matched over here. A proper buzz, doesn't happen here.

 The thing is, people who prefer a quiet life don't understand what you're talking about. Where you see buzz, they see crowds and stress!

I talk about my niece (and me) not liking Perth because it's too quiet, and instantly I'm inundated with people telling me there's "lots to do".   But when they say that, they're missing the point.  

It's not just about having things to do, it's about atmosphere.  There are some cities which just feel exciting to be in, and others which feel like you're under a blanket.  People who like a quiet life probably love the secure feeling of being under the blanket, whereas those of us who like the "buzz" just feel suffocated. 

[Toots]

13 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

 The thing is, people who prefer a quiet life don't understand what you're talking about. Where you see buzz, they see crowds and stress!

I talk about my niece (and me) not liking Perth because it's too quiet, and instantly I'm inundated with people telling me there's "lots to do".   But when they say that, they're missing the point.  

It's not just about having things to do, it's about atmosphere.  There are some cities which just feel exciting to be in, and others which feel like you're under a blanket.  People who like a quiet life probably love the secure feeling of being under the blanket, whereas those of us who like the "buzz" just feel suffocated. 

That's me Marisa.    My sister is staying with us at the moment.  She lives in the middle of Edinburgh and loves the buzz etc.  Mind you she is enjoying a very relaxing holiday with us just now but couldn't live here.  By the same token, I couldn't live anywhere near a big town/city now.  We are the same star sign but are as different as chalk and cheese and look nothing like each other either.  

[Welshy]

On 28/12/2018 at 01:43, s713 said:

That's true. But I was in Manchester not long ago and there's a vibrancy about the place that can't be matched over here. A proper buzz, doesn't happen here.

I lived in Manchester years ago and I felt the same way, I then moved there in 2011 with my (now) wife, that summer it rained every single day, Manchester gets a lot of rain due to it's proximity to the Pennines, the humid air rises up, condenses and then dumps rain (on Manchester) 

We had an apartment right by Old Trafford (handy for the games) and my wife (who's Polish) said it was the most depressing place she's ever lived with dirty red bricked warehouse style buildings everywhere, we moved after 6 months. 

It has some nice restaurants, Salford Quays is nice now with media city and it's very modern, Didsbury is quite nice although expensive.

You wont have the outdoor lifestyle you have in Oz in the UK and you'll be limited to a few BBQs a year, you'll also never swim in the sea (unless you're frankly insane) as it's so cold.

All the very best with your decision.

[Amber Snowball]

On 25/12/2018 at 03:37, Jamwolf said:

We emigrated from London to Perth in 2004 - combination of career issues, having a couple of young kids who we didnt want to bring up in the rat race, and simple wanderlust. Kids now 17 and 15- the older will probably spread his wings to Europe, the younger may be more of a homebird. Perth has delivered on the “great place to bring up kids”, but nobody tells you what to do when they start to grow up ! Both sets of parents are still alive in UK, in their early 80s.

We are going through the motions in Perth now, although there’s much to like about the weather and ease of life. We have the same issues as others in the difficulty making good friends, lack of roots etc. Neither my wife or I want Perth to be the final stop on the life journey.

 I’m 54, self employed, and I don’t kid myself that life would be so easy job/business wise on our return. It’s silly, but it would hurt me from a pride level too - we were in better shape when we left 14 years ago. If we returned, it would probably be to my home city Manchester. Mixed feeling whether it would be a great feeling to rediscover my roots, or end up “walking with ghosts.” 

The bottom line is that our hearts tell us that it’s time to return home, but our heads tell us that it’s too soon (or too late !), especially with the boys at the age they are and economically. 

Sorry to waffle on, but I’d appreciate any insights from readers. 

I’d echo some of the others and say check out your pension entitlements and then move asap if that works financially. I am a bit younger than you, single with 1adult child, so different situation but feelings about staying in Australia any longer much the same. I was in Victoria and moved 2005. I agree, it was great whilst my son was younger, wages were better and cost of living was relatively low.

Fast forward 10 years and I was bored out of my mind, commuting hours for work because I couldn’t afford to live anywhere but the very outer fringes of Melbourne and actively considered driving my car into oncoming traffic one day because that would mean I might be able to stay in bed for a few weeks and not have to engage with life........

I returned to the UK in June and I feel much better. More at peace. I moved to a different area than where I originally came from, but that was because my home town was and still is an armpit of a place and being in the southeast a very overpriced armpit! People talk about  sunshine but that just made Australia a hot, sweaty, fly ridden prison in the end for me. I go out more here, I am in Cheshire, so not far from Manchester and yes it is grey and damp today but I put a coat on. I didn’t swim in the sea in Australia because the water quality at some of the beaches was often poor and there are bitey, stingy things! I’m a bit pathetic that way!

Flip side I loved Australia for the first 10 of those years and I have returned in a much better position than when I left. I worked harder in Australia than I did/do in the UK and I’m a nurse, so work/life is now better for me in the UK which is the opposite of what many think/say. Occupation/area/person specific obviously.

I wish you all the best with your decision. If you decide to return to the UK do it with your head held high, there’s no pass or fail. You have lived a great experience for 14 odd years.

I did some spreadsheets for costs to make sure I could afford living costs in the UK and tbh housing is the biggest difference, everything else evens out when done as a % of income.

Good luck.

 

[Toots]

6 hours ago, Amber Snowball said:

I’d echo some of the others and say check out your pension entitlements and then move asap if that works financially. I am a bit younger than you, single with 1adult child, so different situation but feelings about staying in Australia any longer much the same. I was in Victoria and moved 2005. I agree, it was great whilst my son was younger, wages were better and cost of living was relatively low.

Fast forward 10 years and I was bored out of my mind, commuting hours for work because I couldn’t afford to live anywhere but the very outer fringes of Melbourne and actively considered driving my car into oncoming traffic one day because that would mean I might be able to stay in bed for a few weeks and not have to engage with life........

I returned to the UK in June and I feel much better. More at peace. I moved to a different area than where I originally came from, but that was because my home town was and still is an armpit of a place and being in the southeast a very overpriced armpit! People talk about  sunshine but that just made Australia a hot, sweaty, fly ridden prison in the end for me. I go out more here, I am in Cheshire, so not far from Manchester and yes it is grey and damp today but I put a coat on. I didn’t swim in the sea in Australia because the water quality at some of the beaches was often poor and there are bitey, stingy things! I’m a bit pathetic that way!

Flip side I loved Australia for the first 10 of those years and I have returned in a much better position than when I left. I worked harder in Australia than I did/do in the UK and I’m a nurse, so work/life is now better for me in the UK which is the opposite of what many think/say. Occupation/area/person specific obviously.

I wish you all the best with your decision. If you decide to return to the UK do it with your head held high, there’s no pass or fail. You have lived a great experience for 14 odd years.

I did some spreadsheets for costs to make sure I could afford living costs in the UK and tbh housing is the biggest difference, everything else evens out when done as a % of income.

Good luck.

 

 

That's awful!  Glad you are far happier now Amber.  

[Amber Snowball]

1 minute ago, Toots said:

 

That's awful!  Glad you are far happier now Amber.  

Thanks toots. Yes it was a turning point for me as I am a “these are the facts, deal with them” sort of person, it took me by surprise. The UK is far from perfect and I work for the NHS which has all manner of issues, but I am generally happy and relaxed and back to “dealing with the facts”!

[BacktoDemocracy]

On 25/12/2018 at 03:37, Jamwolf said:

We emigrated from London to Perth in 2004 - combination of career issues, having a couple of young kids who we didnt want to bring up in the rat race, and simple wanderlust. Kids now 17 and 15- the older will probably spread his wings to Europe, the younger may be more of a homebird. Perth has delivered on the “great place to bring up kids”, but nobody tells you what to do when they start to grow up ! Both sets of parents are still alive in UK, in their early 80s.

We are going through the motions in Perth now, although there’s much to like about the weather and ease of life. We have the same issues as others in the difficulty making good friends, lack of roots etc. Neither my wife or I want Perth to be the final stop on the life journey.

 I’m 54, self employed, and I don’t kid myself that life would be so easy job/business wise on our return. It’s silly, but it would hurt me from a pride level too - we were in better shape when we left 14 years ago. If we returned, it would probably be to my home city Manchester. Mixed feeling whether it would be a great feeling to rediscover my roots, or end up “walking with ghosts.” 

The bottom line is that our hearts tell us that it’s time to return home, but our heads tell us that it’s too soon (or too late !), especially with the boys at the age they are and economically. 

Sorry to waffle on, but I’d appreciate any insights from readers. 

I would really counsel that you wait to see how brexit plays out before you do anything irrevocable.

And really check out the business scene back here and the higher education situation.

I'm sure you've given thought to all those things but things have changed enormously in 14 years, we were out for 10 years and back 4.5 years