Bomb blast at Manchester Arena several dead.

[bunbury61]

55 minutes ago, Pura Vida said:

What we don't need to do is stick the knife in every second and trawl the threads looking for anti Muslim pieces with close on every post. Yet completely ignore the extreme Right which are savouring each attack in order to further their very nasty agenda. Feel free to critique the Koran (if you know what you are writing about) As in The Old Testament , parts certainly can be called to account. But to blame Islam and Muslims with nearly every breath becomes very one sided and not a little tedious.

Now if you had anything constructive to add with finding a solution would be more than glad to read.

iam sorry when you are dealing with Islamic fundamentalism there are no peaceful solutions .

we wont b sat around having tea and biscuits ,with a handshake to conclude proceedings

 

 

 

 

[bunbury61]

1 minute ago, bunbury61 said:

iam sorry when you are dealing with Islamic fundamentalism there are no peaceful solutions .

we wont b sat around having tea and biscuits ,with a handshake to conclude proceedings

 

1 minute ago, bunbury61 said:

 

 

 

you mention the far right ..where are they ?

have there been any expected mosques burnt down ?

any Muslims attacked en masse on the street ?

any massive demonstrations ?

 

this huge force of the far right in the u.k is a myth

many people are deeply upset , there may be the odd isolated incident ,but that's about it

 

 

 

[Guest263228]

1 minute ago, bunbury61 said:

iam sorry when you are dealing with Islamic fundamentalism there are no peaceful solutions .

we wont b sat around having tea and biscuits ,with a handshake to conclude proceedings

 

 

 

 

For starters dropping names like Islamic Fundamentalist, unless proven. Why grandiose these people with a title? There's a chance they are jumping on a bandwagon in order to give some meaning to their very ordinary life. Probably the only thing I have found to agree with Trump was his term 'losers' instead of terrorists. (though in his case it may have been due to his location in Arab lands?) I wonder how a twenty two year old, born in Manchester can be a terrorist? I don't know his personal situation, of course. Perhaps he has returned from abroad. Just thinking aloud. Calling them terrorists instead of murderers some how seems to glorify them to an extent perhaps?

[Guest263228]

4 minutes ago, bunbury61 said:

 

you mention the far right ..where are they ?

have there been any expected mosques burnt down ?

any Muslims attacked en masse on the street ?

any massive demonstrations ?

 

this huge force of the far right in the u.k is a myth

many people are deeply upset , there may be the odd isolated incident ,but that's about it

The Far Right have been judged to be the biggest threat actually in the American context. Come now, do at least try and be even handed. The murder of a Labour politician was committed by one with such sympathies. As was the attacks some years ago on Gay bars and mixed race places. Let alone Norway and 77 dead and we won't move on to USA. 

 

 

 

[Guest263228]

40 minutes ago, Sandgroper said:

And you think what? Nothing has been going on in the meantime? That they have suddenly woke up and thought 'you know what we've not hit the UK for a while lets go blow up a few infidels' ??

If you drop your prejudices just for one moment, and focus on the fact that it was not a special infidel killing bomb, but one that would kill without discrimination. Just as the bombs in schools and other places in countries like Pakistan or Turkey. No one can ever plan for a lone wolf attacker. Be that a misguided Islamist or a Right Wing nut job.

[amibovered]

and so it continues, little children blown to pieces, kids with limbs missing, apparently it's price worth paying not to offend someone. 

[Parley]

Has Jeremy Corbyn denounced the terrorists or only expressed his sympathy to the victims ?

[amibovered]

32 minutes ago, Parley said:

Has Jeremy Corbyn denounced the terrorists or only expressed his sympathy to the victims ?

I hadn't thought about it until you asked, but I don't recall him condemning the terrorists, called it an evil act or something as I recall.    

[Toots]

6 minutes ago, amibovered said:

I hadn't thought about it until you asked, but I don't recall him condemning the terrorists, called it an evil act or something as I recall.    

Mealy mouthed wimp.

[amibovered]

It's a mess. on one hand I'm furious with the stupidity of the permanently offended who will insist we close our eyes to the fact that, by far the biggest threat comes from within 5 percent of the population, and would have us needlessly waste resources so as not to offend someone, but also it clearly would be wrong and unfair to demonise everyone in that 5 percent, what is the answer? well I would say it's time to be honest an say the problem is not the Islamic community, but it does come from within the Islamic community, I wouldn't expect to hear that from a politician anytime soon though.      

[Sandgroper]

1 hour ago, Pura Vida said:

If you drop your prejudices just for one moment, and focus on the fact that it was not a special infidel killing bomb, but one that would kill without discrimination. Just as the bombs in schools and other places in countries like Pakistan or Turkey. No one can ever plan for a lone wolf attacker. Be that a misguided Islamist or a Right Wing nut job.

I have no prejudices to drop, I speak about things as I see them, fact this bomb was an attempt by an Islamic fundamentalist to strike fear in those that do not align with there contorted views. 

You harp on about the extreme right? What extreme right a few EDL idiots who that try and jump on the band wagon after an event like this. Your an apologist scared to admit that this terrorism has it's roots in the Islamic faith. I know all Muslims are not terrorists I'm fed up of hearing it repeated but this stems from within there community the community that will never integrate fully in a Western society.......................keep dreaming if you think they will because you are wrong. 

[Sandgroper]

2 hours ago, Pura Vida said:

So plucking a few unfortunates out of the desert and locking them up on a base in Cuba, for propaganda purposes was in your opinion a good idea? Were any actually terrorists? Or combatants?

Yes many were both and have gone back to being so.

[ScottieGirl]

1 hour ago, Parley said:

Has Jeremy Corbyn denounced the terrorists or only expressed his sympathy to the victims ?

And what about the Imams and Muftis? There was that lovely Muslim taxi firm owner who when he twigged what was going on told all his drivers to give free rides and plenty of other examples of ordinary Muslims helping out but where are there leaders ?

[Johndoe]

2 hours ago, Pura Vida said:

If you drop your prejudices just for one moment, and focus on the fact that it was not a special infidel killing bomb, but one that would kill without discrimination. Just as the bombs in schools and other places in countries like Pakistan or Turkey. No one can ever plan for a lone wolf attacker. Be that a misguided Islamist or a Right Wing nut job.

"Lone wolf"? Far from it. In this instance it has taken considerable planning and the expertise of a "team" to perpetrate. I'm prepared to bet that not one of the recent spate of attacks are "lone wolf" as human nature being what it is, the ego of claiming martyrdom/bravery/commitment to the cause would over-ride the need for total secrecy and they would invariably share/involve others. No different than the criminal community...........how many criminals are brought down due to boasting/sharing their exploits. True "lone wolf" attacks are perpetrated not by the right, the left, Muslim or Christian but by "nutjob loners" FWOABW with no REAL commitment to anything other than themselves

A "lone wolf" attack (as indicated by security forces/police/media) is nothing more than one where those forces have not been able to prove any involvement of others..............it doesn't mean that there wasn't any.

The Muslim community is likely fully aware of "threats from within" and either too scared to out potential threats or passively complicit. Someone in their community is aware, just as criminals are aware of other criminal's activities. Elders should be doing more, if only to combat the threat to their own communities standing but that doesn't seem to be the case as is evidenced by (from memory) a survey showing that over 60% of Muslims wouldn't report suspect activity within their community to the police............so why? and as that is a fact............are they not just as guilty for what eventuates from that activity?

[Collie]

I have just listened to a report about the vigil in Manchester last night.  There were people there from every community and religion to show their support, solidarity with the victims and express their shared grief.  The reporter spoke to several people of the Islamic faith who condemned the attack and pleaded that this was not done in their name and was not representative of their beliefs, religon or way of life.

As an Irishman, I can understand where they are coming from, the IRA campaign of the 70s, 80s and 90s was certainly not done in my name and was not representative the vast vast majority of Irish people.  Thankfully, the vast majority of British people at the time were able to recognise this.

There are 1.3 billion people in the world who practice Islam, approximately 23% of the world's population, if they all had the same beliefs as this (British btw) terrorist, the world would be at war.

To the people on here saying lock them all up and throw away the key, saying that the Koran (whatever that is) preaches evil, I'd say go and read some history, you are preaching the mistakes made in the past and they do not work.  Those that ignore history are bound to repeat it.

For a start, you show your ignorance, it's Quran not Koran for a start and I doubt any of you have ever read it.  It is an ancient religous text, the same as the bible or the torah and contains many of the same parabels.  There is some horrendus stuff in the bible too.

A policy of Internment has been shown to fail and only breed more terrorists.  A policy of they are all the same, let's just lock up anyone leads to miscarriages of justice and innocent people being destroyed (Guildford 4, Birmingham 6 etc).  Hopefully, the British security services have learned from this.

Apart from anything else - how do you lock up 1.3billion people or even the 2.5million British citizens of Islamic faith?

Some of the views being expressed on here belong in 1930's Germany not 2017 Britain or Australia.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Collie

[Parley]

No one has said lock up all muslims.

What we have said is of the 3M Muslims living in Britain, approx 3000 have been identified as radicalised and a threat to the community.

These are the ones who should be locked up. The 3000 not the 3M.

 

I'm not sure why you keep claiming all muslims are targetted.

 

[Collie]

How have they been identified as radicalised?

They used to say the same thing about nationalists in Northern Ireland and lock people up without casue frequently.  This led to resentment and distrust of the RUC and security services in NI by close to 50% of the population.  When these people had a law and order issue they didn't go to the RUC but to their local Sinn Fein office, it empowered the IRA, led to punishment beatings, killings, banishments, vigilantism and Kangaroo courts.   

It is not the solution, it will lead to more resentment and actually make Britain less safe.

Learn the lessons of history.  Lord of the flies solutions and mob rule are dangerous paths.

[Guest263228]

1 hour ago, Sandgroper said:

I have no prejudices to drop, I speak about things as I see them, fact this bomb was an attempt by an Islamic fundamentalist to strike fear in those that do not align with there contorted views. 

You harp on about the extreme right? What extreme right a few EDL idiots who that try and jump on the band wagon after an event like this. Your an apologist scared to admit that this terrorism has it's roots in the Islamic faith. I know all Muslims are not terrorists I'm fed up of hearing it repeated but this stems from within there community the community that will never integrate fully in a Western society.......................keep dreaming if you think they will because you are wrong. 

Just as I'm equally sure a few others are fed up with reading the same ignorant bile from numerous sources not only yours. But as you ask, views clearly stated and just what do you and your 'tribe' propose to do to' better' the situation. You say you are aware not all Muslims are terrorists, how noble it must be to be so enlightened. It certainly doesn't necessary come out in your  posts that show Islam phobic tendencies but perhaps you can find some fairness.

I don't harp on about the extreme Right. They are a major threat on many fronts. I have given examples and you may care to seek out US reports of where they find the serious long term threats.  Not forgetting to look whom they voted for President.

[Guest263228]

11 minutes ago, Parley said:

No one has said lock up all muslims.

What we have said is of the 3M Muslims living in Britain, approx 3000 have been identified as radicalised and a threat to the community.

These are the ones who should be locked up. The 3000 not the 3M.

 

I'm not sure why you keep claiming all muslims are targetted.

 

Perhaps because if you start locking people up without charge just because of sympathies the nation heads down a slippery slope. If the police can charge and corrupt evidence on Irish folk, imagine the field day of darker skinned, Muslin residents and probably citizens.

[Guest263228]

9 minutes ago, Collie said:

How have they been identified as radicalised?

They used to say the same thing about nationalists in Northern Ireland and lock people up without casue frequently.  This led to resentment and distrust of the RUC and security services in NI by close to 50% of the population.  When these people had a law and order issue they didn't go to the RUC but to their local Sinn Fein office, it empowered the IRA, led to punishment beatings, killings, banishments, vigilantism and Kangaroo courts.   

It is not the solution, it will lead to more resentment and actually make Britain less safe.

Learn the lessons of history.  Lord of the flies solutions and mob rule are dangerous paths.

Sadly history is forgotten. Certainly the lessons. Probably not known by most anyway .Few are interested beyond  seeking , lazy minded  knee jerk reactions, often  pushed by a tabloid sensationalist press.  

[Guest263228]

24 minutes ago, Parley said:

No one has said lock up all muslims.

What we have said is of the 3M Muslims living in Britain, approx 3000 have been identified as radicalised and a threat to the community.

These are the ones who should be locked up. The 3000 not the 3M.

 

I'm not sure why you keep claiming all muslims are targetted.

 

Copped you. Come now teach. Targetted only has a single letter 't'. Once you start locking up a minority on the grounds of 'being radicalised', very serious concerns need to be considered. People usually need to commit an offence in western democracies before being locked up.  

[simmo]

Koran is the English translation of Arabic quran.

[Parley]

Being a supporter of ISIS is a crime.

[Parley]

13 minutes ago, Pura Vida said:

Copped you. Come now teach. Targetted only has a single letter 't'. 

Are you sure.

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/205815/is-targetted-a-standard-british-english-spelling

I think the British spelling is a double T.

[Sandgroper]

4 hours ago, Pura Vida said:

If you drop your prejudices just for one moment, and focus on the fact that it was not a special infidel killing bomb, but one that would kill without discrimination. Just as the bombs in schools and other places in countries like Pakistan or Turkey. No one can ever plan for a lone wolf attacker. Be that a misguided Islamist or a Right Wing nut job.

Having just read your post again I begin to realise just how much you really do not understand what is going on. The fact is, the bomb was absolutely a special infidel killing bomb in your words and it totally discriminated against people of all ages and races enjoying what everyone in a civilised democratic society should be able to do enjoy a music concert without the fear of getting peppered with nails!