drstu Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) Hi All, Tell me to "pull myself together" .... We live in the Midlands - my wife, 3 kids all under 5 and me (in my early 40's). I'm a GP, a job I love and am a partner in a great practice, with great partners and a very comfortable lifestyle. Australia has been on our minds for a fair number of years since we spent a few months travelling in the country before we had kids. The reason for making the move is lifestyle - we are a warm weather family, enjoy the outdoors and find the UK quite restrictive at times. Also in the UK increasingly working in the NHS is a challenge. I often leave home as the kids are getting up and get home within a short time before bedtime. We're planning to hang onto our UK home, at least initially, just in case. I've been offered a job on the Sunshine Coast in what looks to be a very nice practice. It would be working 9-5. Funnily enough Brisbane/Gold Coast/Sunshine Coast was not somewhere we visited whilst we were there, but we loved QLD generally. As you might know, GPs in Aus (as in the UK) are self employed but in Aus income is all dependant upon billings (UK income is still variable but a bit more certain since people don't swap and change GPs so much). The income where I have been offered a job is a little vague although I accept that as a GP we're not likely to be on the breadline. We're not planning to rent our house but just "shut it down" - we have lots of people to keep an eye on it - so will need to service the mortgage from Aus that will eat a little of our income. So what's the dilemma? Well firstly it's leaving a great job. Although of course it's likely that I could get a job if we returned, returning to where I am would be difficult, unless someone leaves. Secondly I never thought I'd get to the stage where I was doing retirement planning but this is a consideration. I was a bit of a "free spirit" in my 20's and 30's, did jobs that interested me rather than necessarily paid well, didn't pay into a pension scheme so only starting in my mid 30's. It won't be as good as it could be anyway so taking time out will make it every worse! Thirdly income is a worry because of the need to pay our UK mortgage (it isn't massive, but even so). Fourth I have had a struggle with Aus location. Although the job's in QLD I do worry that although we love the heat it might be restrictively hot and would NSW be better, plus although we know that we love the country, we've never been to the Sunshine Coast so it is a bit of an unknown and being on a 457 it wouldn't be that easy to up and move. We did plan to come over 2 years ago (job at that time was in Newcastle) but due to ill health of a parent at that time we didn't come - thankfully now all settled and fine. Thoughts, slaps, "get a grip" comments much appreciated! Edited January 1, 2016 by drstu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Hi All, Tell me to "pull myself together" .... We live in the Midlands - my wife, 3 kids all under 5 and me (in my early 40's). I'm a GP, a job I love and am a partner in a great practice, with great partners and a very comfortable lifestyle. Australia has been on our minds for a fair number of years since we spent a few months travelling in the country before we had kids. The reason for making the move is lifestyle - we are a warm weather family, enjoy the outdoors and find the UK quite restrictive at times. Also in the UK increasingly working in the NHS is a challenge. I often leave home as the kids are getting up and get home within a short time before bedtime. We're planning to hang onto our UK home, at least initially, just in case. I've been offered a job on the Sunshine Coast in what looks to be a very nice practice. It would be working 9-5. Funnily enough Brisbane/Gold Coast/Sunshine Coast was not somewhere we visited whilst we were there, but we loved QLD generally. As you might know, GPs in Aus (as in the UK) are self employed but in Aus income is all dependant upon billings (UK income is still variable but a bit more certain since people don't swap and change GPs so much). The income where I have been offered a job is a little vague although I accept that as a GP we're not likely to be on the breadline. We're not planning to rent our house but just "shut it down" - we have lots of people to keep an eye on it - so will need to service the mortgage from Aus that will eat a little of our income. So what's the dilemma? Well firstly it's leaving a great job. Although of course it's likely that I could get a job if we returned, returning to where I am would be difficult, unless someone leaves. Secondly I never thought I'd get to the stage where I was doing retirement planning but this is a consideration. I was a bit of a "free spirit" in my 20's and 30's, did jobs that interested me rather than necessarily paid well, didn't pay into a pension scheme so only starting in my mid 30's. It won't be as good as it could be anyway so taking time out will make it every worse! Thirdly income is a worry because of the need to pay our UK mortgage (it isn't massive, but even so). Fourth I have had a struggle with Aus location. Although the job's in QLD I do worry that although we love the heat it might be restrictively hot and would NSW be better, plus although we know that we love the country, we've never been to the Sunshine Coast so it is a bit of an unknown and being on a 457 it wouldn't be that easy to up and move. We did plan to come over 2 years ago (job at that time was in Newcastle) but due to ill health of a parent at that time we didn't come - thankfully now all settled and fine. Thoughts, slaps, "get a grip" comments much appreciated! Stop dithering and "do it " .....if you love it ,great happy days .. If you don't ,experience it,get citizenship and come back . Bloody hell ,you know more than most ...we get one shot ,don't die wishing and regretting ...do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainR Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 ^^^^ Exactly as above, it doesn't necessarily need to be a permanent move, no reason not to give it a go and then after 2 or 3 years decide if its the place you want to stay or if you fancy going back to the UK. Life is too short to be boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anoh Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I agree with the above comments. Well, if you were that happy and content with life then you would not be posting on this forum! You obviously have a desire to try something new. Go for it. The sunshine coast is a beautiful area with so much to see. Love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I agree with the above posts especially as you are keeping your UK home etc. The Sunshine coast is lovely and i think you will like the weather, we moved with similar reasons to yourself and love the QLD weather, we have found only a handful of days are 'too hot' to do much so way less restriction than UK 'too wet/ cold days'. Just be wary of the 457 visa,its only a temp visa and you will be tied to that one employer/ practice, im sure with your profession you would qualify for a skilled visa that has no restrictions on you but it would take longer to get. Lots of luck with everything and let us know what you do in the end. Cal x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) I thought it all sounded worth doing until I saw that dreaded number - "457". It does vary by state, but usually if you're on a 457 your costs will be much higher than on PR, even temporarily. You may be liable to pay full school fees for your children, there are benefits you can't claim, there may be restrictions on health care, etc. So you need to factor those additional costs in. Plus of course, it gives you absolutely no right to stay should you decide you'd like to - it's a complete myth that you can automatically convert a 457 to PR. Have you thought about other costs too - long-term furnished rentals are almost unknown, so you'll still have to furnish a new house as if you're moving permanently, or ship all your existing stuff. You may need two cars on the Sunshine Coast as public transport isn't great. It would make a lot more sense to ship all your existing stuff and rent out your house in the UK rather than just leave it empty. Get a valuer to complete a Schedule of Depreciation when you move out, and you will then be able to claim substantial tax relief on your Australian tax (landlords are treated very generously by the Aussie taxman - when I was working, the tax relief on my rental flat offset most of the tax on my salary). I know there are risks in renting out but I've owned several rental properties and the risks are way overstated - of course if you buy an investment property in a problem suburb you're going to get problem tenants, but if your house is in an affluent suburb where rents are high, the odds are it will attract quality tenants who will do the right thing. And the difference to your bottom line would be dramatic. Edited January 1, 2016 by Marisawright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naomi from Manchester Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) Time to reclaim your 'free spirited' ways of old and give it a try, I reckon. It won't be the end of the world if you decide to return to the UK after a yr or so. If you don't try, you'll always be wondering if it was a missed opportunity. Also, the older your kids grow the more difficult the decision becomes, so the time is now Edited to agree with Marisa re the visa - it would be sensible to set about obtaining permanent residency status ASAP in case your job doesn't work out and you end up wanting to stay in Aus working elsewhere. Edited January 1, 2016 by Naomi from Manchester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bound4Tassie Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I've not heard of many UK GP's in Aus hankering after the NHS! Patients maybe ( price wise at least) but not any doctors or dentists I know of! Go for it! You can always return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I would seriously reconsider your intention to leave the house empty. You may more than cover the mortgage and any rental profit would not be taxable while on a 457. Insurance costs will be crippling to insure an unoccupied property and the property will likely deteriorate when left empty for any length of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest66881 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 A no brainer doc, go for it:wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Tilley Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 LOL, you always get one party pooper come along to ruin it - and here I am! It all sounds great for what's in it for you, but I also see that you mention a wife and three children under the age of 5! Travelling around Australia for a few months prior to having kids is totally different to living in Australia with kids! Back then you were on an adventure with nothing to lose but lots of fun to have. The life you will have as a family of five will be nothing like the life you had then. What does your wife do now? Does she work? Are the children at nursery? Do you rely on family to help with childcare? Does your wife have a social life/network away from the children for at least one day/evening per week. I'm not saying don't do it, but you need to get real about the day to day life she will be having whilst you are happily pursuing your new job, networking, making friends at work with other colleagues. If you're going on a 457 visa then the costs for three children to have some sort of daycare will be expensive. If you can't afford that then your wife will be with them completely with no relief. Now I know that may sound odd (because that's what stay at home parents do), but don't overlook the odd few hours that you take for granted when trusted family or friends pop in for just an hour or so so that you can go to the shops, go to the doctors or the dentist, go to an exercise class, for a run, to the hairdressers etc. How often do you and your wife have a night out without the children? Is having 'couple time' an important aspect of your relationship? These may seem like little, petty or selfish issues, but sometimes these little things are what keep us sane and help us keep our identity as individuals and not just being a mum or a dad. I know of many women who have moved to Australia to support their husband's career and the move has been great for the husband (everything he could have wished for and more!) but not for the wife - many of whom had no idea how isolated and restricted they would become by being a 24/7 mum. What are you wife's plans for her new life in Australia? If she's just going to follow you to support your career and be a full time mum it may not be enough once the novelty of a big house and the nice weather has worn off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JockinTas Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 LOL, you always get one party pooper come along to ruin it - and here I am! It all sounds great for what's in it for you, but I also see that you mention a wife and three children under the age of 5! Travelling around Australia for a few months prior to having kids is totally different to living in Australia with kids! Back then you were on an adventure with nothing to lose but lots of fun to have. The life you will have as a family of five will be nothing like the life you had then. What does your wife do now? Does she work? Are the children at nursery? Do you rely on family to help with childcare? Does your wife have a social life/network away from the children for at least one day/evening per week. I'm not saying don't do it, but you need to get real about the day to day life she will be having whilst you are happily pursuing your new job, networking, making friends at work with other colleagues. If you're going on a 457 visa then the costs for three children to have some sort of daycare will be expensive. If you can't afford that then your wife will be with them completely with no relief. Now I know that may sound odd (because that's what stay at home parents do), but don't overlook the odd few hours that you take for granted when trusted family or friends pop in for just an hour or so so that you can go to the shops, go to the doctors or the dentist, go to an exercise class, for a run, to the hairdressers etc. How often do you and your wife have a night out without the children? Is having 'couple time' an important aspect of your relationship? These may seem like little, petty or selfish issues, but sometimes these little things are what keep us sane and help us keep our identity as individuals and not just being a mum or a dad. I know of many women who have moved to Australia to support their husband's career and the move has been great for the husband (everything he could have wished for and more!) but not for the wife - many of whom had no idea how isolated and restricted they would become by being a 24/7 mum. What are you wife's plans for her new life in Australia? If she's just going to follow you to support your career and be a full time mum it may not be enough once the novelty of a big house and the nice weather has worn off! After reading many posts on the 'Moving Back To The UK' thread, I don't think you are a party pooper Rachel. Life here isn't all beer and skittles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambethlad Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Do it! Sunshine Coast is lovely. Being a doctor you will always be in demand and never short of a quid so you can afford a bit of adventure while you're still young. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Hi All, Tell me to "pull myself together" .... We live in the Midlands - my wife, 3 kids all under 5 and me (in my early 40's). I'm a GP, a job I love and am a partner in a great practice, with great partners and a very comfortable lifestyle. Australia has been on our minds for a fair number of years since we spent a few months travelling in the country before we had kids. The reason for making the move is lifestyle - we are a warm weather family, enjoy the outdoors and find the UK quite restrictive at times. Also in the UK increasingly working in the NHS is a challenge. I often leave home as the kids are getting up and get home within a short time before bedtime. We're planning to hang onto our UK home, at least initially, just in case. I've been offered a job on the Sunshine Coast in what looks to be a very nice practice. It would be working 9-5. Funnily enough Brisbane/Gold Coast/Sunshine Coast was not somewhere we visited whilst we were there, but we loved QLD generally. As you might know, GPs in Aus (as in the UK) are self employed but in Aus income is all dependant upon billings (UK income is still variable but a bit more certain since people don't swap and change GPs so much). The income where I have been offered a job is a little vague although I accept that as a GP we're not likely to be on the breadline. We're not planning to rent our house but just "shut it down" - we have lots of people to keep an eye on it - so will need to service the mortgage from Aus that will eat a little of our income. So what's the dilemma? Well firstly it's leaving a great job. Although of course it's likely that I could get a job if we returned, returning to where I am would be difficult, unless someone leaves. Secondly I never thought I'd get to the stage where I was doing retirement planning but this is a consideration. I was a bit of a "free spirit" in my 20's and 30's, did jobs that interested me rather than necessarily paid well, didn't pay into a pension scheme so only starting in my mid 30's. It won't be as good as it could be anyway so taking time out will make it every worse! Thirdly income is a worry because of the need to pay our UK mortgage (it isn't massive, but even so). Fourth I have had a struggle with Aus location. Although the job's in QLD I do worry that although we love the heat it might be restrictively hot and would NSW be better, plus although we know that we love the country, we've never been to the Sunshine Coast so it is a bit of an unknown and being on a 457 it wouldn't be that easy to up and move. We did plan to come over 2 years ago (job at that time was in Newcastle) but due to ill health of a parent at that time we didn't come - thankfully now all settled and fine. Thoughts, slaps, "get a grip" comments much appreciated! Just read your post again ....having rented out houses ...if you can afford it leave your house empty ...renting out is a pain in the arse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacaranda Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Hmmm!Having aussie kids,and brought them up in Oz until they were nearly teens,and then relocated to the UK a few years ago,I think I have a balanced viewpoint of restrictions.Going on holiday from the UK to somewhere hot for 2 weeks is a different story,than living somewhere hot.We lived in Sth Aust.I can say categorically that we were just as restricted there as what you might be in the UK weather wise.Days stuck inside during winter with the wood burner on 24/7 to being stuck inside during summer,too hot to do anything really,curtains and blinds drawn,just like winter.Might be different in Qld though.Even on milder days of 20c+I would be telling the girls to stay in the shade,sunblock on etc.I have two siblings both had skin cancer and were and are not sun worshippers.One's had SC twice,the other 5 times!This is just them heading out to hang washing outside,going from the house to the car etc not sunbathing,so you need to be very careful. Our lives did not change when we moved to the UK being outside wise.We weren't beachy type people in Oz and neither in the UK so I guess it depends what type of family you are. I think I would if I were you,rent your house out if you decide to go.Also factor in the working hours.Finishing at 5pm?Is that a dead cert or will you be expected to work later if appts are running late?Getting home right now when its your kids bedtime is only a temp thing,obviously the older they get,the later they'll be staying up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benj1980 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 By all means go to Oz, but don't restrict yourself on a 457 visa. I'm sure as a GP you'll be welcomed with open arms for a PR and you'd be able to choose a location of your choice without restriction. Yes more paperwork but definitely the best way to move over here in my opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 On a temporary visa? Don't bother. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Do any drs come in on PR visas anymore? We did, back in 1999, but everyone we knew after that were on 457s. They all converted easily after two years. Of course, things change all the time, so it may well be possible again. My oh has recently been offered several jobs in QLD (he's a psychiatrist) and was told by colleagues in NSW and Vic that he should think very carefully after the cuts in funding have caused problems for medical staff and service provision. It may well not be the same in general practice, and they may well be overstating the issues (and let's face it, working in the NHS isn't all it was), but it might be something you want to look closely at before committing to a move. The other big thing to consider is your pension. Despite all the changes, an NHS pension is something worth having. A friend of ours spent a year working in Australia back in the early 90s and has just retired from his nhs position. He misjudged the day of his retirement by less than a week and has ended up losing £8k a year, mainly due to the year he was out of the country. If you go and decide to come back, look very carefully at the time you spend out of the UK. My husband is starting to look at the exact date he can leave so he doesn't lose any more than necessary (we've had two spells in Australia and will probably be doing another one once he's retired from the NHS). All that said, we don't regret any of the time we spent in Australia. It was valuable experience professionally and I know he's used that experience to enhance services here (and vice versa in Australia). It's also been useful for career progression. From my perspective, we moved when we had three under fives and, yes, it was hard for the first few months until I managed to establish some friendships and a part time job (nurse), but I found parenting young children in Perth's climate so much easier than in the UK. I brought up the idea of a move after noticing the time it took me to get three kids dressed up in waterproofs, wellies, hats, gloves etc, taking them for a walk in the rain, with none of us wanting to go, then undressing them again at the end. Even having to put sunscreen on several times a day is less time consuming than that and much more pleasant! I also believe it's good for children to travel and experience a different life, even if it isn't that different! We have three young Australians staying with us at the moment - my eldest daughter's best friend from school there, her sister and friend. They haven't stopped laughing since they get here. It's like they've never been apart. It's lovely for them to have friends around the world. As long as you plan well, research everything really well (including professionally) and have a back up plan for a possible return, then I'd say go for it. Would you regret not trying it more than you'd regret trying it and coming back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Be mindful that the advice you get on here is not like the factual unbiased advice you give a patient. You will find the people who are saying don't do it typically are the one's living in UK because they hated Australia. The one's saying go for it are typically the one's living a great life in Australia. So it is always good to understand the inherent biases of who is giving advice. If you know you love Australia, then I would listen to the positive people. If you are 50:50 then listen to both camps. But I lean on the side of experiencing life regardless so no regrets later for what you didn't try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma Pennie Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Hey, we are in a similar boat although got 189 PR visa - I am a dentist 39 with 1yr old and we are on the Gold Coast atm validating our visa. It is amazing over here and have been offered a job in a small practice in the suburbs of brisbane. The main thing holding us back is family - i.e. grandparents not seeing as much of our little one. Any advice greatly appreciated - am glad to get out of the NHS tbh but it is a long way from home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Hey, we are in a similar boat although got 189 PR visa - I am a dentist 39 with 1yr old and we are on the Gold Coast atm validating our visa. It is amazing over here and have been offered a job in a small practice in the suburbs of brisbane. The main thing holding us back is family - i.e. grandparents not seeing as much of our little one. Any advice greatly appreciated - am glad to get out of the NHS tbh but it is a long way from home. Having been on this forum for some time now, I'd have to say missing family is one of THE most common reasons why people give up and go home - and that's ESPECIALLY true for parents of small children. So you should definitely take that concern seriously - don't dismiss it in the hope you'll get over it, or on the grounds that family can visit you (they may not) or that "I can always Skype" (some people find that only makes them feel the absence more keenly than ever). Everyone is different, so only you can really know how much you'll feel the absence of family. Some cope with it well, some struggle at first but pull through, and others can't cope at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bound4Tassie Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Hey, we are in a similar boat although got 189 PR visa - I am a dentist 39 with 1yr old and we are on the Gold Coast atm validating our visa. It is amazing over here and have been offered a job in a small practice in the suburbs of brisbane. The main thing holding us back is family - i.e. grandparents not seeing as much of our little one. Any advice greatly appreciated - am glad to get out of the NHS tbh but it is a long way from home. NHS dentistry is only going to get worse. The UDA system is bonkers ( as you know!) and the proposed replacement is failing in the pilot schemes. Did you line up job interviews for this validation trip? How close are you to family in terms of how much do you see of them / how much do you rely on their help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunfreo Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 you seem to have a good life , you appear happy , it's not all good down under , its ok but it's not a better life just different , I would stay where you are , I work in the health service here and it's no different to the NHS patients are the same , the same problems the same damands the same constraints think very carefully before you make the move you may never get back what you have now good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azdent Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Hi there, It's completely understandable how you feel. There are pros/cons about both places. I came to Australia on a working holiday for 1 year as a dentist to 'check it out', and I felt that Australia was able to offer the work/life balance I didn't get in the UK. I worked at a medical centre with a few British GP's and they always seem to be busy. The main thing is, in 5 years time you don't want to still be in the UK, wishing you had made the move. Your children are at an age where the transition would be easier. Worse case scenario, if it doesn't go to plan, you can always move back, knowing you tried and have no regrets. Think of it as an adventure with your family. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Tilley Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Worse case scenario, if it doesn't go to plan, you can always move back, knowing you tried and have no regrets. Think of it as an adventure with your family. Good luck! I'm sorry to disagree with you, but this is one of the most commonly misquoted comments that I see time and time again. It's only easy to move back if BOTH of the parents agree to move back. The reality is that if one of you are very happy there and the other one isn't then there is going to be a lot of torn opinions on where to live which will mean one person having to live unhappily in a country they don't want to be in. If this job lives up to everything the OP hopes it to be then he is unlikely to want to return to the UK, so what the wife has to decide is whether she is prepared to live a life in a country she may be unhappy in for the sake of her husband and children? If the answer to that is yes and she is prepared to take a gamble then the family should go, but if she's not prepared to take that gamble then the family should maybe stay put in the UK where things seem pretty good for them all. When a move is driven by one person because the positives are all about their career and what's best for them (whilst thinking it is also best for their family) then they are unlikely to want to move back to what they left that they weren't so happy with, especially as the OP states that he may not be able to return to the position he already holds. We are all advising the OP about what he wants without consideration for knowing what his wife really wants, or what she intends to do with her own life when she is there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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