pablo Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 And you've asked again, despite the answer being given....and being pointed out to you. Is that a riddle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 What tickles me on PIO is the amount of people who go on about their taxes being spent on the work shy and feckless,fair do's ,i can understand that,but the amount of £ fraudulently claimed is a drop in the ocean to "legalised" tax avoidance/non dom scams,and thats what they are despite the legality of it,yet hardly ever do we see any indignation about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 have you ever read THE RAGGED TROUSERED PHILANTHROPIST wakey? It was set a long time ago to be fair,but i dont think we would be as far along with work rights etc without unions,even if they have in the past gone too far,its a good read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobj Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 A point to remember...Since 1936 there have 10 tory/lib prime ministers as opposed to 6 labour prime ministers... Well, just thought you might like to know...:laugh: Cheers, Bobj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tea4too Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) (Quote Pablo):What tickles me on PIO is the amount of people who go on about their taxes being spent on the work shy and feckless,fair do's ,i can understand that,but the amount of £ fraudulently claimed is a drop in the ocean to "legalised" tax avoidance/non dom scams,and thats what they are despite the legality of it,yet hardly ever do we see any indignation about it I agree. I don’t frequent these threads very often because people (myself included) have firmly held views and the arguments just go backwards and forwards, and very seldom does anyone give an inch. But fwiw, I think there is something very flawed about a policy that targets the most vulnerable in society in the way that the bedroom tax does. Forcing people to give up their homes, or find extra money to remain in them, is holding people with few options to ransom. What about the children in this, the elderly, the sick, the ordinary families that run the risk of eviction or spiraling debts? If there is insufficient housing stock for these people, where are they supposed to go? Irrespective of whether you agree with the principals behind this policy, I don’t see how can it work in practice. The gap between the rich and poor in the UK continues to widen, but I guess it is easier to turn the screw on the poorest. They have fewer friends in influential places. Edited March 23, 2013 by tea4too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 What does San fairy Ann mean? I don't really like labour, you are right. I think they are no longer who they think they are yet you labour guys still seem to think so. They will screw you at the first opportunity they get if they have to. I guess my time in the construction industry in Aus with the unions and their labour BS they sprout has left a sour taste in my mouth. Your right I did point out about you working on Liverpool one because you said you had done all your work on government projects. So as much as you despise the British monarchy and what you believe are Tory values/class system you have worked on a job that has been associated with both Labour screw the working man...what do you mean?...t is the Tories that screw the working man at the benifits of the rich man...are you honestly for real? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 So with regards to the bedroom tax do you think that it's fair that people with more children than bedrooms should be cramped into a small house whilst people have spare bedrooms in theirs? and yes I know there are exceptions but do you not agree with the general principle of people getting free or assisted housing only being in a house with bedrooms that are used every night of the week? So lets move people who have a spare bedroom away from a road and friends they have probably had for a couple of decades...pathetic idea from a pathetic government...no wonder they are called the nasty party.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyba Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 A few points: 1. It's not illegal to be rich in the UK, this is a free country, this is not North Korea 2. Who cares who buys the houses? They have to be new build only to get the 20% loan, which means creating jobs in the construction, makes money for the Government on the interest on the loans 3. Helps people who can't get on the housing ladder a helping hand 4. The finer details have still to be ironed out Wasn't it Labour who signed up to loads of PFI schemes that proved to cost more money to run than they will ever make?, this, on the face of it, looks like a good idea. I'd love to know how these jobs are created??? I am an electrician, new build schemes are pretty much all wired by companies such as clarkson Evans who don't employ anyone, everyone who "works" for them is on price (and a very poor one) so if it takes them 6 months to wire the street then that's all they get, also these companies have 1 fully qualified electrician for the entire site acting as a supervisor overseeing the lot and then a load of kids on pennies who probably don't pay tax. It's much the same for other trades. On the face of it these guaranteed loans look like a good idea but you can't get a mortgage if you can't afford to pay for it and that's the problem at the moment, there's no jobs meaning no matter whether its a 80% 95% or a 100% mortgage, the people this is aimed at helping will not be Able to afford these mortgage's anyway. And it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if this was open to abuse by the rich as these are the Tories, the very same people who take from the poor and disabled whilst giving tax breaks to millionaires. And if I here 1 more person say "they're sorting out labours mess" I'm going to pull out a shotgun!!!! The mess in the beginning was caused by the banks not the government, this continuing mess and lack of REAL action to help us get out of the mess is 100000000% down to Cameron and his stubborn etonian buddies. Double dip and maybe even triple dip is down to lack of success in fixing the problem which is the real problem. And I agree with the OP any working class person who ores Tory deserves everything they get, if it was up to me you'd have to register who you voted for and when the cuts to benefits, jobs and higher taxes come in the ones who voted Tory would automatically be the first ones to lose their jobs and benefits as it's their enabling that has out them in this situation, why should others suffer for their lack of understanding of what the Tories do, and always have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeboard1980 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I'd love to know how these jobs are created??? I am an electrician, new build schemes are pretty much all wired by companies such as clarkson Evans who don't employ anyone, everyone who "works" for them is on price (and a very poor one) so if it takes them 6 months to wire the street then that's all they get, also these companies have 1 fully qualified electrician for the entire site acting as a supervisor overseeing the lot and then a load of kids on pennies who probably don't pay tax. It's much the same for other trades. On the face of it these guaranteed loans look like a good idea but you can't get a mortgage if you can't afford to pay for it and that's the problem at the moment, there's no jobs meaning no matter whether its a 80% 95% or a 100% mortgage, the people this is aimed at helping will not be Able to afford these mortgage's anyway. And it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if this was open to abuse by the rich as these are the Tories, the very same people who take from the poor and disabled whilst giving tax breaks to millionaires. And if I here 1 more person say "they're sorting out labours mess" I'm going to pull out a shotgun!!!! The mess in the beginning was caused by the banks not the government, this continuing mess and lack of REAL action to help us get out of the mess is 100000000% down to Cameron and his stubborn etonian buddies. Double dip and maybe even triple dip is down to lack of success in fixing the problem which is the real problem. And I agree with the OP any working class person who ores Tory deserves everything they get, if it was up to me you'd have to register who you voted for and when the cuts to benefits, jobs and higher taxes come in the ones who voted Tory would automatically be the first ones to lose their jobs and benefits as it's their enabling that has out them in this situation, why should others suffer for their lack of understanding of what the Tories do, and always have done. What would you think if the Tories got in again? so you don't like the latest mortgage scheme, tell me how would you try and improve people's chances of owning a home? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 What would you think if the Tories got in again? so you don't like the latest mortgage scheme, tell me how would you try and improve people's chances of owning a home? I suggest you have a bet on them getting in again as you will get really good odds of 4 to 1 with some bookies...then again why waste your money on a donkey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 What would you think if the Tories got in again? so you don't like the latest mortgage scheme, tell me how would you try and improve people's chances of owning a home? Restricting the scheme to first time buyers would be good,that would stop investors/speculators cashing in,or at least make it more difficult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeboard1980 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I suggest you have a bet on them getting in again as you will get really good odds of 4 to 1 with some bookies...then again why waste your money on a donkey. I don't bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyba Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I'm hoping to be out of the country by the next election but if they got in again I'd fear for many people in this country, there would be many many more on the street as the I'm alright jack attitude of those lot would do all it could to help the rich at the expense of the poor. The way to get the housing market going again has absolutely nothing to do with making loans easier to get initially, you need to get people into work first, so firstly you invest in ways of getting people back into work and spending money. This would fix many many more problems such as the national debt to start with. More money coming to hmrc in tax, less going out on benefits meaning people buy the little things such as the odd night out or stuff to make their house nicer etc, this will then create confidence with employers and will begin an upward spiral instead of these cuts which only create a downward spiral. This government is sooo short sighted its unreal, they're incapable of looking at the big picture and their egos won't allow them to look at the situation and Re-evaluate. Making mortgages easier to get, baring in mind that these easier to get mortgages will have higher Re-payments, is like telling someone you'll give them £200m if they fly to the moon using only their arms. Making something readily available for people with little money which costs a lot of money is pointless. Just like the money they made available for apprentices, yes the money was there but it would need be spent as companies have to have the work to give to the apprentices before the can use the money. This government just puts out policies that look ok on the surface so the majority of voters will look and accept it on face value and that's that, the Tories prey on dumb voters with a lack of real interest in the complexity of policies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeboard1980 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Restricting the scheme to first time buyers would be good,that would stop investors/speculators cashing in,or at least make it more difficult Skyba's point was that people can't afford the mortgages so I'd like to hear their suggestion as to how people's chances of owning a home could be achieved. How would an investor cash in exactly? I thought the government was giving a loan to help with the deposit? A loan that would have to be paid back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Skyba's point was that people can't afford the mortgages so I'd like to hear their suggestion as to how people's chances of owning a home could be achieved. How would an investor cash in exactly? I thought the government was giving a loan to help with the deposit? A loan that would have to be paid back. Ohhhh dear. Can't you honestly work out how it will be abused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Skyba's point was that people can't afford the mortgages so I'd like to hear their suggestion as to how people's chances of owning a home could be achieved. How would an investor cash in exactly? I thought the government was giving a loan to help with the deposit? A loan that would have to be paid back. You seem to be getting a tad tetchy,best discuss tomoz eh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyba Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Skyba's point was that people can't afford the mortgages so I'd like to hear their suggestion as to how people's chances of owning a home could be achieved. How would an investor cash in exactly? I thought the government was giving a loan to help with the deposit? A loan that would have to be paid back. you explain to me how someone who can't afford to save for a mortgage would be able to pay one whilst paying off a loan at the same time?? This scheme is not new, my girlfriend and I was looking at one last year, you pay a 5% deposit on 85% of the property and the other 15% is an interest free loan. The repayments were unreal, we couldn't afford it and I'm an electrician and she works for the nhs we're on ok money. How would a couple on low paid jobs afford it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyba Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) Also I explained how to get the housing Market really going again and you've gone quiet! The problem is not the housing market it's jobs. I don't spend my spare money anymore because, well now I'm saving for the move, but even before I stopped spending spare money because I don't know when I'm going to really need it and I'm guessing anyone else who's lucky enough to have a little spare cash will do the same and many more dont have spare cash. That then leaves the rich, exactly who may spend but not in the areas that need spending in. What the Tories don't understand is that if you make the richest 2-3% better off they won spend any more than they usually would but if you make the other 97% better off they will, and the amount they will spend to get will dwarf that 3% also they think that if they help companies out a little with £2k that will make a difference, that won't make a difference until confidence is back and that won't be back until the unemployment rate starts to really drop in real terms, not with part time jobs either. Edited March 23, 2013 by Skyba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolbox Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Your not letting go of that bone are yer Pabs :laugh: Respect to you mate, you could argue for England :notworthy: You and wakey should be mp's :yes: atleast there's a clear differece between you two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 you explain to me how someone who can't afford to save for a mortgage would be able to pay one whilst paying off a loan at the same time?? This scheme is not new, my girlfriend and I was looking at one last year, you pay a 5% deposit on 85% of the property and the other 15% is an interest free loan. The repayments were unreal, we couldn't afford it and I'm an electrician and she works for the nhs we're on ok money. How would a couple on low paid jobs afford it?? I think thats the one we were looking at too. Its called the LIFT scheme here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeboard1980 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 you explain to me how someone who can't afford to save for a mortgage would be able to pay one whilst paying off a loan at the same time?? This scheme is not new, my girlfriend and I was looking at one last year, you pay a 5% deposit on 85% of the property and the other 15% is an interest free loan. The repayments were unreal, we couldn't afford it and I'm an electrician and she works for the nhs we're on ok money. How would a couple on low paid jobs afford it?? If you have say a 15-20% deposit you have access to lower interist rate mortgages. That would reduce your monthly repayments. I can see how it would be better to buy your own home and be paying off an interist free loan than say renting and trying to save a 10% deposit for a home. I know in our case if. We didnt bring our deposit from Aus then it would have been near impossible o save for a deposit but this kind of scheme would help. And yes we could then afford the mortgage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyba Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) You're still looking At £800+ a month mortgage with the loan repayment on top, is this what you'd call affordable??? also the types of people looking to use this will probably already be renting and the way things are it doesn't matter if its 1% or 5% it's not possible especially when the mortgage will be much much more than their rent when paying off the loan also Edited March 23, 2013 by Skyba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 However bad a Tory Government is, a short stint of Labour (or 'Labor) is usually enough for most people to know who serves their interests best. Personally, I prefer my millionaires to be Tory, rather than 'Socialist', too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 However bad a Tory Government is, a short stint of Labour (or 'Labor') is usually enough for most people to know who serves their interests best. Personally, I prefer my millionaires to be Tory, rather than 'Socialist', too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 You're still looking At £800+ a month mortgage with the loan repayment on top, is this what you'd call affordable??? also the types of people looking to use this will probably already be renting and the way things are it doesn't matter if its 1% or 5% it's not possible especially when the mortgage will be much much more than their rent when paying off the loan also How are you looking at that figure. I have never paid anything like that and interest rates were a lot higher then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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