Stranded Australians

[NicF]

30 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I'm 99% sure you are right. I recall there was a bunfight early on, with the airlines and the Federal government complaining the states weren't offering enough quaratine capacity.  

I think the states' reluctance was because originally, they were footing the bill.  Now they're charging, you'd think they could ramp it up a lot - however, since the Victorian enquiry, I think the states are terrified of being pilloried if there's a major virus escape from the hotels, so they're being extra vigilant.  And after all the bad publicity about private security, that means using police and defence personnel, and that means there must be staffing constraints.

They may be charging but the amount they are charging is unlikely to cover the full cost of providing the service.  Plus very few people seem to be paying the bills.  There was a story not that long ago about there being large amounts of outstanding debt owed for quarantine.  Ultimately it will be the Australian tax payer that is paying for the cost of returning Australians to quarantine.

[mt9754]

1 hour ago, MacGyver said:

The other states increased international passenger arrivals in response to Melbourne's inability to receive its share of passengers. PErhaps they could have doen more, but its not true to say that they ran away from the problem.

They all imposed caps and reduced their intake substantially between July and October.

[mt9754]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I hope the rumour is not true. 

Both are vaccines, but they're probably not immunisations.  What that means:  We know that a person who gets vaccinated won't get Covid, or will get only a mild case.  However, it's likely that person can still carry Covid and transmit it to other people.   So even vaccinated people will have to quarantine.

It’s not my area of expertise but as I understand it even if it does not prevent infection, the infectious period is greatly reduced so they’re thinking 4 days home quarantine + covid test might be enough.

[Marisawright]

42 minutes ago, mt9754 said:

It’s not my area of expertise but as I understand it even if it does not prevent infection, the infectious period is greatly reduced so they’re thinking 4 days home quarantine + covid test might be enough.

You may be right about the duration, but even if it's shorter, why would they not stay in a hotel?  We've already learned that a large percentage of people can't be trusted to obey home quarantine - and people who feel well (and probably think they're bombproof if they've been vaccinated) are even less likely to obey the rules, even for just four days.  So I, for one, hope they keep the hotel quarantine going, just shorten the duration.

[welljock]

2 hours ago, mt9754 said:

They all imposed caps and reduced their intake substantially between July and October.

That isn't correct; WA kept the cap of 525 the same from June to mid September then increased this to 725 in September then to 1025 in October. I'm pretty sure the other states (except Vic) did the same.

[rtritudr]

12 minutes ago, welljock said:

That isn't correct; WA kept the cap of 525 the same from June to mid September then increased this to 725 in September then to 1025 in October. I'm pretty sure the other states (except Vic) did the same.

The cap of 525 was put in place in response to the Melbourne outbreak.  Prior to that there was no cap and flights could come in full.  After the caps were put in place each flight was limited to 30-50 passengers:

 

 

[Parley]

7 hours ago, rtritudr said:

I don't think there is an airline capacity issue.  Any perceived capacity issue is simply a result of a lack of quarantine capacity.  Each state maintains a quota for quarantine capacity based on what they can safely deliver.  You definitely don't want to flood any state with more passengers than they can safely accommodate.

They had to maintain social distancing on the planes though so would only carry 10% or 20% of a plane's capacity on a flight/

[Dusty Plains]

21 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

I think they've already decided where is best to bring their kids up. Otherwise they wouldn't be so upset about not getting back.

Yes ,,,,,, The penny has certainly dropped. And its not just dual citizens, aka Australia/UK. Byron Bay is brimming with US citizens. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Dusty Plains

[Dusty Plains]

7 hours ago, NicF said:

They may be charging but the amount they are charging is unlikely to cover the full cost of providing the service.  Plus very few people seem to be paying the bills.  There was a story not that long ago about there being large amounts of outstanding debt owed for quarantine.  Ultimately it will be the Australian tax payer that is paying for the cost of returning Australians to quarantine.

All the more reason they should stay in situ.

[starlight7]

As regards non payment of the hotel quarantine bill that is easily overcome. Money upfront or no landing. Pretty obvious really.

[Parley]

2 hours ago, starlight7 said:

As regards non payment of the hotel quarantine bill that is easily overcome. Money upfront or no landing. Pretty obvious really.

Actually the government send you a bill after the event and you have 3 months to pay. (according to a friend who has just done it).

[Jon the Hat]

2 minutes ago, Parley said:

Actually the government send you a bill after the event and you have 3 months to pay. (according to a friend who has just done it).

In which case it is no surprise there is a large amount outstanding.  No one pays that much cash before they need to.

[rtritudr]

14 hours ago, Parley said:

They had to maintain social distancing on the planes though so would only carry 10% or 20% of a plane's capacity on a flight/

Social distancing is most certainly not the reason why they're doing it as everyone goes into quarantine at the end of the flight anyway.  In fact on many of these flights first/business is usually near full and everybody there is as close to each other as they were before.

The main reason is because all the states were petrified that what happened in Melbourne could happen to them too.

[rtritudr]

10 hours ago, starlight7 said:

As regards non payment of the hotel quarantine bill that is easily overcome. Money upfront or no landing. Pretty obvious really.

The optics of that would be bad for the government.  In any case, money is not the issue here.  Even if you add more money you can't safely increase quarantine capacity.

[rtritudr]

22 hours ago, MacGyver said:

The other states increased international passenger arrivals in response to Melbourne's inability to receive its share of passengers. PErhaps they could have doen more, but its not true to say that they ran away from the problem.

Prior to the Melbourne outbreak, there were no quarantine caps at all anywhere in Australia.  Per-state caps were only introduced in July when Melbourne stopped taking inbound passengers due to its outbreak.  The overall quota has since increased marginally.

In that sense, it would probably be correct to say that every state reduced their intake of international passengers drastically (by a factor of 10, e.g., a jet with a capacity of 300 passengers is now only allowed to carry 30) when Melbourne stopped taking inbound flights.

[Wanderer Returns]

15 hours ago, Dusty Plains said:

Yes ,,,,,, The penny has certainly dropped. And its not just dual citizens, aka Australia/UK. Byron Bay is brimming with US citizens. 

They'll all be moving on now the beach has been washed away!

[Paul1Perth]

10 hours ago, starlight7 said:

As regards non payment of the hotel quarantine bill that is easily overcome. Money upfront or no landing. Pretty obvious really.

Imagine the media getting hold of that story. Human rights and all that. Any government brave enough to do that would get crucified.

Whilst I think people who can should pay there are some that maybe can't and in the scheme of things, what covid has cost in other areas, I wouldn't have a problem with taxes or government money being used for some quarantine places.

I'm sure it cost a fortune to use Rottnest Island for some. We managed it though.

[Paul1Perth]

7 minutes ago, Wanderer Returns said:

They'll all be moving on now the beach has been washed away!

It'll come back. Our local beach changes totally in winter. I remember the first year we lived here and went for a walk after a storm. Where sand had been now only rocks. Come summer, water flow changes, sand gets washed back, beach back to normal.

Sand just gets moved around when there's storms. Media love to make a big thing about it and blame climate change.

[Jon the Hat]

9 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

It'll come back. Our local beach changes totally in winter. I remember the first year we lived here and went for a walk after a storm. Where sand had been now only rocks. Come summer, water flow changes, sand gets washed back, beach back to normal.

Sand just gets moved around when there's storms. Media love to make a big thing about it and blame climate change.

On the BBC there was an expert saying that the sand to replenish the Byron bay beach is there just delayed.  As you say all about the timing of sand movement up (or down?) the coast.

I remember down in Falcon where my Aunt lives their beach was impacted by some development further up the coast which buggered with the sand movement.  I think it usually recovers in time.

[Wanderer Returns]

On 15/12/2020 at 22:15, starlight7 said:

As regards non payment of the hotel quarantine bill that is easily overcome. Money upfront or no landing. Pretty obvious really.

Airlines are required to check you have the right to enter the country at your final destination before you board the aircraft. Australian citizens and permanent residents (with an in-date travel facility) have that right, so unless the government was going temporarily suspend it until people paid for hotel quarantine, you couldn't stop those people returning to Australia. It would be unconstitutional.

[starlight7]

Looking at what is happening in NSW it is, once again, a fiasco and once again we will all suffer because of it.  They never learn..

[starlight7]

Have to wonder why any one from America is allowed here.  We are quick to shut borders to each other yet we let these people who have more infections than anyone else in the world just come. Ridiculous.

[rtritudr]

9 hours ago, starlight7 said:

Have to wonder why any one from America is allowed here.  We are quick to shut borders to each other yet we let these people who have more infections than anyone else in the world just come. Ridiculous.

Because they are Australians (citizen, PR or family), and the US happens to be the most important strategic partner of Australia.

[starlight7]

The hospitals are preparing for a third wave expected around March 2021. Because we allow people into the airports. I don’t care who they are, they should not be coming here from Covid ridden countries. 

[Ken]

19 hours ago, starlight7 said:

Looking at what is happening in NSW it is, once again, a fiasco and once again we will all suffer because of it.  They never learn..

They don't need to learn. They're NSW. They're "the gold standard".