Stranded Australians

[starlight7]

We heard they were closing the borders in March whilst we were in Rarotonga and we were lucky to get the very last plane out via New Zealand. A few Europeans were stranded because the would only fly Australians and New Zealanders but they were confident they would get home with the help of their embassies. I wouldn’t have had any confidence whatsoever in the Australian embassy, never would. Advice on general for dual citizens is ‘use the other one’. 

[Quoll]

3 hours ago, Tmduk said:

What about those who were renting apartments or rooms, what about their bond? Just leave without their thousands of pounds that the landlord is holding? Also, people were renting rooms with friends, should they just leave the room, stop contributing to the monthly rent and leave your friends/other tenants short of the money required for rent at short notice and screw them over? The professionals with targets to hit at work, no one wants to leave and screw over their employer either, what will they say when you need them for a reference? “They just disappeared and left me in the shit”.

 

Imagine handing your notice to your employer with your flight booked home. Oops sorry my flight has been cancelled can I work for a bit longer, oops sorry it’s cancelled again can I work for another month.

 

Aren’t you one of the ones who goes on about how stressful and expensive it is to move to the other side of the world (emigrating to Australia), now you’re saying people should have been able to move swiftly? What about their furniture, pets, gym memberships, electronics, clothes, wifi, gas, etc etc.

Yes, it was stressful, it was expensive, no pets, furniture got given away in 2 days or put on a skip, lost money on gym memberships, gave  cars away, phone calls to utilities companies (made more difficult because there were POA to deal with).  Probably wouldn't have moved if we had had jobs and lived in our own home but we didn't and the writing was on the wall back then. As it was I booked flights on 12 March and flew out on 15 March. Qantas flew reliably until towards the end of the month IIRC, fares weren't cheap either. We would have been homeless and stranded had we stayed as the house we were in was being sold. 

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Quoll

[Freemantle]

53 minutes ago, starlight7 said:

We heard they were closing the borders in March whilst we were in Rarotonga and we were lucky to get the very last plane out via New Zealand. A few Europeans were stranded because the would only fly Australians and New Zealanders but they were confident they would get home with the help of their embassies. I wouldn’t have had any confidence whatsoever in the Australian embassy, never would. Advice on general for dual citizens is ‘use the other one’. 

I have actually had to seek help overseas  from the Australian Embassy and they bent over backwards to sort out our problem.  The British Embassy is another matter!

 

[starlight7]

37 minutes ago, Freemantle said:

I have actually had to seek help overseas  from the Australian Embassy and they bent over backwards to sort out our problem.  The British Embassy is another matter!

 

That is very good to hear because I have heard only negatives about them. Cheered me up ,thanks.

[Parley]

1 hour ago, starlight7 said:

That is very good to hear because I have heard only negatives about them. Cheered me up ,thanks.

They just secured release of a political prisoner from Iran and a few years back did the same with Egypt, so I would say they are excellent too.

Quiet diplomacy which you won't read about in the papers or see on the news until it is successful.

Of course some countries like China they have no chance.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Parley

[Dusty Plains]

 

12 hours ago, Parley said:

Quiet diplomacy which you won't read about in the papers or see on the news until it is successful.

 

Canada and Australia have had a quiet arrangement since 1986, to share diplomatic assistance to their citizens in certain countries. 

Canadians can seek consular assistance from 13 Australian diplomatic missions in countries or states mainly in the Asia Pacific region such as, all of Indonesia. Guam, Hawaii, Vanuatu, Papua New Guinea, Samoa, Tonga etc.

Australians can seek consular assistance from 14 Canadian diplomatic missions in Africa and the Americas, such as Algeria, Cameroon, Morocco, Senegal, Cuba, Iceland, Venezuela  and Ukraine. 

You also won't read about assistance extending to the need to evacuate citizens out of danger zones.  For instance, in 1998 there were extensive anti-western riots and bombings in Indonesia that brought down the Suharto regime in Indonesia.  The RAAF quietly flew into Jakarta into and evacuated many Australian and Canadian nationals.

Its a good system. 

 

 

[ramot]

I might have the memory wrong, but I seem to remember that when we were expats  we  registered with the British Embassy then should it become necessary for obvious reasons you would be evacuated, if possible, but you had to repay the cost later. The problem would be the rights of those who had never bothered to register to expect help? Last in the pecking order or left behind.

I think there are many genuine Australians who wanted to come home, but apart from those who had made their lives in other countries, there were probably many who ignored the warnings. You can’t just blame the government and insist as an Australian they must get you home. The pandemic was unprecedented. Most airlines stopped flying, there were far fewer flights, hotel quarantine was restricted, so the logistics of getting everyone back was unrealistic. Spare a thought for how confident you might feel working in the cabin with potential covid infected passengers. 

By June apparently 63,000 returning Australians had been in quarantine costing $118 million dollars I can’t find more recent statistics.

We were due to fly to Vietnam in April and as a group met and assessed the situation on 11th March and cancelled. there were plenty of warning signs then for people who were considering travelling or already travelling to cancel or get home, so should the government be responsible for people who ignored the warning signs? It’s the age old question of who is actually responsible for you? 

I realise how hard it has been for some people, but there were plenty of others who could have been more sensible.

Edited December 13, 2020 by ramot

[Wanderer Returns]

On 11/12/2020 at 18:31, starlight7 said:

There are quite a few round the world. Should they have come back immediately when they were asked to in March?  Should Australia help those desperate to return? Should our government give more support? I believe other countries have repatriated their citizens but Australia has abandoned many overseas. There are 39,000 stuck overseas, should they have absolute priority over other travellers?

If you believe that, then with all due respect you are either misinformed or you have a short memory. The Australian government has supported repatriation flights throughout the year, both through Qantas, and in collaboration with other governments.

https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/COVID-19/trying-get-home#flights

They organised three flights with the Nepalese government to get Australian travellers home from Kathmandu, which was highly-publicised at the time.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-10/vijay-lama-pilots-coronavirus-repatriation-flight-to-australia/12337296

Where there have been Australians stranded with no commercial flight options, the government has stepped in to try and assist those people. However, as the vast majority of Australians remaining overseas are in locations where commercial flights are still operating from, then it’s a reasonable expectation for them to return at their own expense.

The government has been advising Australians to return since March, and although that hasn’t been easy, practical or cheap, most of us have managed to get back one way or another during that time. Anyone still overseas nine months later has clearly decided it was in their best interest to stay where they were, so they shouldn’t be complaining about it now.

Unfortunately, there seems to be a vocal minority from the entitled brigade who seem to think that the government should send them over a private jet. They are the same people who think they shouldn’t have to 'endure quarantine' because it’s in humane, and they have a right to 'fresh air and strolls', even though they’ve just spent the last three years living in a compound in the Middle East, earning a tax-free fortune.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Wanderer Returns

[starlight7]

Many of us are wondering why they don't use Christmas Island for quarantine purposes. Most do not actually want to have flights full of expats returning because they are afraid that Covid will spread again and we will have to endure another lockdown.  We have had enough. Price shouldn't be an issue, more the health status and where the travellers are actually coming from.

[Wanderer Returns]

17 minutes ago, starlight7 said:

Many of us are wondering why they don't use Christmas Island for quarantine purposes. Most do not actually want to have flights full of expats returning because they are afraid that Covid will spread again and we will have to endure another lockdown.  We have had enough. Price shouldn't be an issue, more the health status and where the travellers are actually coming from.

A good idea in principle, although in practice would they have the infrastructure there to handle that many people?

And the media would have a field day... "Australia sending people to islands again!"

[Tulip1]

Hopefully much of these worries will come to an end next year. If those arriving have had the vaccine and given a pre boarding negative test and another one on arrival the chances of them bringing in covid is extremely low.  If most of the Australian public have also had the vaccine I’d say the chances of out of control infection becomes negligible.  Certainly so very low and it wouldn’t cause a pandemic because it would be more easily traceable and spreading it around people when most are immune would be very difficult. It would simply end fast because it would be unable to find enough hosts. There has always been and always will be a very small chance of a traveller bringing in an infectious disease.  Most of those diseases don’t cause a threat to Australia because the Australians have been vaccinated against them. A good vaccine against anything whether it be covid, TB and the many other things people can catch is as good as we can get. Countries either go on as they always did (with a condition of vaccine evidence) or they close their borders to anyone for ever because a 100% guarantee that everyone walking through that airport is disease free will never be possible. I saw something on our news recently from a government scientist who said the world may always have to accept this is just one other thing added to a long list of things that people can catch and die from. That sounds harsh but it’s true. He quoted flu and said in the UK approximately 7000 people die from it each year (sometimes more) It would be many more but for the fact people have an annual jab. Society just accepts that happens and a few years down the line Covid is likely to be no different although he said the figures would be far lower than the flu fatalities because most will get the vaccination and it’s spread will be low.  if you think about it rationally it’s very true. Australia (and all other countries) have allowed millions across their borders that could have flu and other infectious things, it’s not possible to stop that. Because covid is new and raw right now and many have suffered so much, the thought of ever allowing anyone in with possible covid is unthinkable but with all the protection that will be place before long it’s probably lower risk than many other things that can be bought in that no one even thinks about. 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Tulip1

[OzinEire]

As an aussie who has been living abroad but planning to move back home for 2 years now with my family, some of the responses here are a disgrace. People don't want to fly home on the government's dime and skip quarantine and risk the Australian populations health. We just want to come home. We want to be able to book our flights that aren't 10x the normal price because the government has put caps on flights. 

 

The government's advice in March was come home OR if you have a job and a place to stay overseas, then stay put. People have since lost their jobs due to covid or contracts ending or people have dying family members or an infinite number of other reasons. All of which are actually irrelevant because you should be able to return to your own home country! 

 

I've been living in various stages of lockdown since March, 2m social distancing everywhere, wearing masks to the shops, on school run, public transport, basically anywhere we could come in contact with people outside our immediate family. The Australian government has turned the general public against people returning from abroad making them out to be a massive risk but in reality we've been living with all these precautions for most of the year. 

 

To say we should just wait it out for how long??? instead of pointing out the obvious that the government should pull their finger out and listen to the experts they hired for advice on getting aussies back home. They're great at telling you they've helped get 40k aussies home but in reality 95% of those people have got themselves home, not on repatriation flights and the government has put them into quarantine and then gave themselves a pat on the back for doing the whole job. 

 

So sick of hearing "should've come back in March". 

 

 

[ramot]

I still think that people don’t realise how many flights to Australia just aren’t happening. Almost everyone we know who were flying long haul with Emirates, Royal Brunei etc, have lost their jobs, because the airlines don’t have the previous number of aircraft operating anymore. Qatar has kept flying reduced flights, but again many pilots have lost their jobs there as well. So if or when flights might start up again, there will be delays as next there will be a shortage of pilots, I don’t know anything about the continent or America.

Airlines have to make a profit to keep solvent, operating with the very reduced passengers allowed due to covid spacing, they like most businesses  have put their prices up to keep as profitable as possible,  supply and demand sadly like other businesses. Airlines do go bust throwing everyone out of work, so you can understand any airline trying to avoid that happening. 

Edited December 13, 2020 by ramot

[Dusty Plains]

47 minutes ago, OzinEire said:

As an aussie who has been living abroad but planning to move back home for 2 years now with my family, some of the responses here are a disgrace. People don't want to fly home on the government's dime and skip quarantine and risk the Australian populations health. We just want to come home. We want to be able to book our flights that aren't 10x the normal price because the government has put caps on flights. 

 

The government's advice in March was come home OR if you have a job and a place to stay overseas, then stay put. People have since lost their jobs due to covid or contracts ending or people have dying family members or an infinite number of other reasons. All of which are actually irrelevant because you should be able to return to your own home country! 

 

I've been living in various stages of lockdown since March, 2m social distancing everywhere, wearing masks to the shops, on school run, public transport, basically anywhere we could come in contact with people outside our immediate family. The Australian government has turned the general public against people returning from abroad making them out to be a massive risk but in reality we've been living with all these precautions for most of the year. 

 

To say we should just wait it out for how long??? instead of pointing out the obvious that the government should pull their finger out and listen to the experts they hired for advice on getting aussies back home. They're great at telling you they've helped get 40k aussies home but in reality 95% of those people have got themselves home, not on repatriation flights and the government has put them into quarantine and then gave themselves a pat on the back for doing the whole job. 

 

So sick of hearing "should've come back in March". 

 

 

So what is your "home country"?  Is it the country you live in, or is it the country you prefer to to be associated with. As we are now seeing, dual citizenship has always been merely a fair weather arrangement. The "weather" at the moment is anything but fair.

There are a number of dual citizens who regularly post here on PIO  who made the effort to return to Australia months ago. 

 

[starlight7]

It s not a good situation when the majority feel the airports should remain closed to overseas travellers because of the fear of contamination. It comes from the mistakes made last time and the lack of trust in the whole quarantine process. Many of us feel,with some justification, that people from countries like the USA and the UK don’t accept rules and regulations re Covid isolation and are going to spread the disease. Unfair, probably but that is how it is. We would like to remain in our bubble until there is a good vaccination available.

[OzinEire]

1 minute ago, Dusty Plains said:

So what is your "home country"?  Is it the country you live in, or is it the country you prefer to to be associated with. As we are now seeing, dual citizenship has always been merely a fair weather arrangement. The "weather" at the moment is anything but fair.

There are a number of dual citizens who regularly post here on PIO  who made the effort to return to Australia months ago. 

 

My home country is Australia. I just happened to have married someone from a different country. Our plan has always been to raise our children in Australia. The casual racism you're throwing out there has not been missed. 

 

My youngest was 2 months old with no passport and his Australian citizenship took 8 months to be processed. Should I have left him behind because he wasn't "Australian"? It takes 7 months to get pets ready to ship to Australia, should I have left them behind too? 

[OzinEire]

Just now, starlight7 said:

It s not a good situation when the majority feel the airports should remain closed to overseas travellers because of the fear of contamination. It comes from the mistakes made last time and the lack of trust in the whole quarantine process. Many of us feel,with some justification, that people from countries like the USA and the UK don’t accept rules and regulations re Covid isolation and are going to spread the disease. Unfair, probably but that is how it is. We would like to remain in our bubble until there is a good vaccination available.

But the problem is with the people running and working the quarantine system then, not the people returning who are locked in hotel rooms for 14 days. Wild to me that the people greeting returning travellers at the airport without even a mask on. Like they're immune to catching and spreading it within the community. 

[starlight7]

We no longer have to wear masks except in shops but that should also cover the airports which are worse than shopping malls I would have thought. Until the planes started coming in we have had no cases of the virus for many weeks so not much point in masks really in those circumstances. Guess by Christmas it may well have all started up again and people will be furious if that happens.

[rtritudr]

On 11/12/2020 at 19:31, starlight7 said:

There are quite a few round the world. Should they have come back immediately when they were asked to in March?  Should Australia help those desperate to return? Should our government give more support? I believe other countries have repatriated their citizens but Australia has abandoned many overseas. There are 39,000 stuck overseas, should they have absolute priority over other travellers?

Every new approved PR holder becomes one of those stranded Aussies.

[rtritudr]

3 hours ago, starlight7 said:

Many of us are wondering why they don't use Christmas Island for quarantine purposes. Most do not actually want to have flights full of expats returning because they are afraid that Covid will spread again and we will have to endure another lockdown.  We have had enough. Price shouldn't be an issue, more the health status and where the travellers are actually coming from.

Because if someone needs an ICU on the island it would be a disaster.  Have a look around the world, all the countries that are operating successful quarantine programs are doing it in their biggest cities.

[AliQ]

8 hours ago, Dusty Plains said:

There are a number of dual citizens who regularly post here on PIO  who made the effort to return to Australia months ago. 

Everyone's individual circumstances were, and still are, vastly different.

This is a naive comment to make.

[Skani]

9 hours ago, starlight7 said:

 Until the planes started coming in we have had no cases of the virus....... Guess by Christmas it may well have all started up again and people will be furious if that happens.

Overseas arrivals stopped only in Victoria:  they have continued in other states throughout the year and, despite that, Australia currently has no cases in the community.

[NicF]

11 hours ago, OzinEire said:

As an aussie who has been living abroad but planning to move back home for 2 years now with my family, some of the responses here are a disgrace. People don't want to fly home on the government's dime and skip quarantine and risk the Australian populations health. We just want to come home. We want to be able to book our flights that aren't 10x the normal price because the government has put caps on flights. 

 

The government's advice in March was come home OR if you have a job and a place to stay overseas, then stay put. People have since lost their jobs due to covid or contracts ending or people have dying family members or an infinite number of other reasons. All of which are actually irrelevant because you should be able to return to your own home country! 

 

I've been living in various stages of lockdown since March, 2m social distancing everywhere, wearing masks to the shops, on school run, public transport, basically anywhere we could come in contact with people outside our immediate family. The Australian government has turned the general public against people returning from abroad making them out to be a massive risk but in reality we've been living with all these precautions for most of the year. 

 

To say we should just wait it out for how long??? instead of pointing out the obvious that the government should pull their finger out and listen to the experts they hired for advice on getting aussies back home. They're great at telling you they've helped get 40k aussies home but in reality 95% of those people have got themselves home, not on repatriation flights and the government has put them into quarantine and then gave themselves a pat on the back for doing the whole job. 

 

So sick of hearing "should've come back in March". 

 

 

Given that the only new cases we currently have of Covid-19 in Australia are in those people that have returned from overseas and are currently in hotel quarantine I don't think that is unreasonable.  No where in Australia is currently in lockdown and restrictions have eased throughout the country.  And given the last lockdowns in Victoria and South Australia were caused by Covid escaping hotel quarantine you can't really blame people for not wanting to just open the boarders to anyone that wants to come home to just get off the plane and start taking part in everyday life.  Yes it's hard for those stuck overseas but those caps on flights you so despise are the sole reason Australia is not locked down and most people are able to live relatively normal lives.

[OzinEire]

16 minutes ago, NicF said:

Given that the only new cases we currently have of Covid-19 in Australia are in those people that have returned from overseas and are currently in hotel quarantine I don't think that is unreasonable.  No where in Australia is currently in lockdown and restrictions have eased throughout the country.  And given the last lockdowns in Victoria and South Australia were caused by Covid escaping hotel quarantine you can't really blame people for not wanting to just open the boarders to anyone that wants to come home to just get off the plane and start taking part in everyday life.  Yes it's hard for those stuck overseas but those caps on flights you so despise are the sole reason Australia is not locked down and most people are able to live relatively normal lives.

At the expense of other Australians though and taking away their legal right to return. No-one is asking to fly home and get off the plane and start mixing with people. Everyone I've spoken to is happy to do and pay for the quarantine. The government have other options which they refuse to entertain and keep passing the buck to individual states. 

 

The lack of compassion that people have for their fellow countrymen is really disappointing. I guess this is a pointless conversation to have with people that have no idea what it's like to be locked out of your own country. 

 

[Parley]

2 hours ago, OzinEire said:

At the expense of other Australians though and taking away their legal right to return. No-one is asking to fly home and get off the plane and start mixing with people. Everyone I've spoken to is happy to do and pay for the quarantine. The government have other options which they refuse to entertain and keep passing the buck to individual states. 

 

The lack of compassion that people have for their fellow countrymen is really disappointing. I guess this is a pointless conversation to have with people that have no idea what it's like to be locked out of your own country. 

 

You aren't are you ? Book a flight home... You should be able to now.