Permanent Parent Visas to be abolished ?

[Nemesis]

Not all of us get reductions as pensioners it depends on our assets. I get a Commonwealth Medical Card and that is it. That gives me cheaper medicines. No cheaper rates, electricity etc. Need a blue pension card to get those reductions. Also take into account that any pension paid by the UK gov will never increase from the time you move over here. The amount we get the day we take it here is the same a mount for the rest of our lives. So if relying on that they no increments. I think you get the pension here or part pension after so many years here.

 

All countries are making it much harder to move around once we are aged, no one wants oldies. Anyway its something each person has to work out. Personally getting out of the pond when one is older to live near children can be very hard. For a start it depends how easy one makes friends. Also its such a different lifestyle here that has to be considered. I like my pond in Aus and my children do not live close by and that is fine I am not moving to be close to them. Their ponds are different to mine.

 

You have to be in Australia for ten years before you qualify for the state pension (and I think that is ten years before retirement age, i e working). Even then its means-tested and most people with a full UK pension will not qualify for it on those grounds.

[Fisher1]

Only you can make that decision, but I wouldn't move back to UK for anything, having too good a time here. Are you backing yourself into a corner being influenced by the negatives?

I have never in the 13 years here ever had a negative comment from anyone about our visa status, remember those who post are in the minority.

Obviously don't know your financial circumstances, and buying a house will be your major expense, but you do get discounts here when over a certain age. Have you considered a retirement village? Might be a cheaper option. Not for us yet, but lots of good ones around and residents happy.

We have a seniors card, get a reduction on various bills, will check with husband what rebates we get, eg rates etc.

We have home assist in QLD who do minor repairs, change light bulbs, clean gutters (we just paid $10 for that) the theory being they don't want us oldies!! Climbing ladders. Get 10% discount at the local green grocers and every one goes there and have a laugh catching up. Plenty of farmers markets for cheaper local produce, Aldi's is cheaper than Woolys or Coles.

you don't have to have health insurance, but most people I know do, there are bulk billing Dr.s.

I have been checking out the benefits of going from our temporary retirement visa to parent visa. Had to go for a scan recently and asked how much I would have had to pay if I had Medicare, the answer Nothing, if you see a specialist then as far as I know you pay a gap from the Medicare amount? but access to the medical services here where we live far out weigh UK.

 

I think income tax is more expensive, again something else we are checking, petrol is of course cheaper, I'm sure we spend far less on air con than we would on central heating, but our house has good air flow, and fans as well.

Obviously the state pension is frozen, but our pensions are index linked.

 

Don't know if any of this has helped, but remember not many of the posters on this thread are on the parent visa, I know some parents have returned due to cost of living over the years, but lots more are still here.

 

 

Thanks for that Ramot. I think I'm just having last minute collywobbles. After years of long holidays in NSW, waiting on lists, watching the exchange rate crawl up and down I really wondered if we would ever get the visa.

 

We have only been living in the UK for seven years after decades in The Bennelux countries so we know all about having to put yourself out there to make new friends. Having said that, we already have people we meet for lunch when we're in Sydney so we've made a very small step forward there.

 

I have signed more online petitions to get the UK state pension unfrozen than I can remember but I don't expect anything will change and we have accepted that a long time ago.

 

No, it's the constant, unremitting negativity of some posts which make me wonder if I really want to make all that effort (and spend all that money) to be regarded in the light of an expensive nuisance.

 

Ramot, you have reminded me why I wanted to come in the first place! Thank you!

 

Petals, We too will be living in a different pond from our daughter - but close enough to visit her pond when we want to without risking DVTs and jet lag :-).

Edited September 20, 2016 by Fisher1

[ramot]

Thanks for that Ramot. I think I'm just having last minute collywobbles. After years of long holidays in NSW, waiting on lists, watching the exchange rate crawl up and down I really wondered if we would ever get the visa.

 

We have only been living in the UK for seven years after decades in The Bennelux countries so we know all about having to put yourself out there to make new friends. Having said that, we already have people we meet for lunch when we're in Sydney so we've made a very small step forward there.

 

I have signed more online petitions to get the UK state pension unfrozen than I can remember but I don't expect anything will change and we have accepted that a long time ago.

 

No, it's the constant, unremitting negativity of some posts which make me wonder if I really want to make all that effort (and spend all that money) to be regarded in the light of an expensive nuisance.

 

Ramot, you have reminded me why I wanted to come in the first place! We too will be living in a different pond from our daughter - but close enough to visit her pond when we want to without risking DVTs and jet lag :-). Thank you.

 

Something else I thought of is the cost of an annual visit could be offset against some of the possible extra cost of living here?

 

We don't have grandchildren in Oz, ours are in UK, but we prefer living here, with an annual trip back.

 

We see see our Brisbane son probably once a month'sh and we probably visit our Sydney based daughter 3/4 times a year and she comes here at least 2 times a year. Only saying this to point out we don't see ours all that often, so you have to work out if you aren't living close how often you will see each other will you be happy to have moved here.

[ramot]

Not all of us get reductions as pensioners it depends on our assets. I get a Commonwealth Medical Card and that is it. That gives me cheaper medicines. No cheaper rates, electricity etc. Need a blue pension card to get those reductions. Also take into account that any pension paid by the UK gov will never increase from the time you move over here. The amount we get the day we take it here is the same a mount for the rest of our lives. So if relying on that they no increments. I think you get the pension here or part pension after so many years here.

 

All countries are making it much harder to move around once we are aged, no one wants oldies. Anyway its something each person has to work out. Personally getting out of the pond when one is older to live near children can be very hard. For a start it depends how easy one makes friends. Also its such a different lifestyle here that has to be considered. I like my pond in Aus and my children do not live close by and that is fine I am not moving to be close to them. Their ponds are different to mine.

 

Sorry if I misled anyone, I checked with my husband, we pay our rates 6 monthly and pay in advance so that's why we get a small discount, we get about $300 annually off our electricity with QLD seniors discount card, Don't know if this is only in QLD? Plus a discount on car registration for one car only with the card, $150 off, all better than nothing.

Edited September 20, 2016 by ramot

[Gbye grey sky]

I'm beginning to have serious doubts about taking up the parent's visa that I paid for so happily in April. It all sounds a bit desperate and I'm not too sure I want to spend the rest of my life being labelled as some sort of scrounger. My position in the UK as a reasonably comfortably off tax payer looks set to be blown out of the water by the tidal wave of extra bills (medical insurance) expenses (higher taxes) and housing costs I will have to pay in order to cost the Australian government billions.

 

Aus very kindly allows five years from the issue of the visa to make the big move. Time to reflect.

 

Only you can decide if it is all worth it. Much will also depend where you locate too.

 

I can only say that at 54 and 52 we gave up very well paid jobs in the UK to relocate (on the back of my wife's citizenship gained when she was a skilled migrant 25 years ago).

 

I have so far only had casual low paid work, wife is doing part time consultancy. I now have a realistic prospect of a proper job starting in a few weeks.

 

Luckily we were mortgage free in the UK, sold up and bought here with a lot of change.

 

We have been burning that money but our longer term plan was to be retired here. We personally think that being poorer living here is worth it because we love it here but we know that is not the case for everyone. We have got to know locals and ex-pats in the last 12 months. Too soon to make close friends but we are building a circle. The ex-pats we know would never return. PIO is not representative of the bulk of ex-pats, certainly not in our neck of the woods.

 

Our large house is a lot cheaper to run than our small UK home was. One or other was always working from home so fuel bills were high. Things like rates and fuel bills are lower here which helps. We expect to downsize in about 10 years or so when our (now) 12 year old flys the nest.

[amibovered]

You have to be in Australia for ten years before you qualify for the state pension (and I think that is ten years before retirement age, i e working). Even then its means-tested and most people with a full UK pension will not qualify for it on those grounds.

 

If your only income is a full UK pension, and subject to the assets test, you would still get a partial Australian pension should you qualify for it.

[Nemesis]

If your only income is a full UK pension, and subject to the assets test, you would still get a partial Australian pension should you qualify for it.

 

Yep, if you qualify. Any kind of super/private pensions, plus a full UK pension and you get precious little, if anything, from Australia. But, as I said it is means tested.

[Fisher1]

Thanks again Ramot and grey sky, it's really helpful to have an idea of the household bills. When we started really planning to go (rather than just talking about it) we totted up all our household bills for the entire year, insurance, car maintenance, heating, landline the lot, added a thousand pounds for house maintenance and then added thirty percent for Australia having higher prices and have been working on that figure as a minimum ever since. From what you are saying, it might actually be a bit less than that. Very cheering. The big blot on the landscape is the exchange rate but we aren't planning to move till next year, so we'll worry about that then. At least I've managed to stop wanting to punch everyone I know who voted Brexit :-)

 

I have only just started factoring in the cost of trips to Australia - so that's quite an annual lump saved!!!

[trishenty]

Absolute horror! Where can I find out more about this please?

I'm currently on a bridging visa awaiting decision on non-contributory. At 70 I didn't think it worth going for the contributory visa as I would have been over 80 before being able to claim even Medicare. I have made a very good life here in the few months I have been in Sydney and was looking forward to many more years watching my family grow up.

 

Each year's intake of parents of migrants costs Austalian taxpayers $3.2B.

 

The Productivity commission in its report to Government has called for permanent parent visasa to be abolished or the fees greatly increased.

 

Even the cost for the contributory visa of $47,000 does not come close to the estimated cost to taxpayers of $335,000 to $410,000 after health, welfare and aged care are taken into account.

[Quoll]

Absolute horror! Where can I find out more about this please?

I'm currently on a bridging visa awaiting decision on non-contributory. At 70 I didn't think it worth going for the contributory visa as I would have been over 80 before being able to claim even Medicare. I have made a very good life here in the few months I have been in Sydney and was looking forward to many more years watching my family grow up.

 

Huh? If you'd gone with the Contributory visa you would have been home and hosed - being 80 before you could claim Medicare? Sorry, that's just plain wrong. As it is, you run the risk of being required to leave if you don't pass the medical, your Medicare coverage (assuming you are from U.K.) is reciprocal for essential medical intervention- they expect you to go home for things like hip/knee replacements and even some sorts of cancer treatment. If you'd gone CPV you would have been covered for everything. I most certainly would not like to be living in that kind of limbo!

[trishenty]

Nope, that was what I've been told, the advisor here tried to talk me into contributory but the only advantage he could give me was that I could travel in & out of the country without permission. If I get 10 years good living here I shall be happy. Lifestyle is good, food is good & weather, goes without saying. I've got myself some medical cover and have joined community groups.

The only down side is that 4 months after my arrival, my family moved to Top End for 2 years. I am bracing myself for my first trip up there next month, but I'm told its very beautiful,

[Quoll]

Nope, that was what I've been told, the advisor here tried to talk me into contributory but the only advantage he could give me was that I could travel in & out of the country without permission. If I get 10 years good living here I shall be happy. Lifestyle is good, food is good & weather, goes without saying. I've got myself some medical cover and have joined community groups.

The only down side is that 4 months after my arrival, my family moved to Top End for 2 years. I am bracing myself for my first trip up there next month, but I'm told its very beautiful,

 

I fear that was incorrect advice https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/864-

There may have been confusion there that you wouldn't be eligible for Centrelink age benefits for 10 years or any other Centrelink benefits for 2 years but you won't be eligible for any Centrelink benefits at all this way.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Quoll

[Gbye grey sky]

Thanks again Ramot and grey sky, it's really helpful to have an idea of the household bills. When we started really planning to go (rather than just talking about it) we totted up all our household bills for the entire year, insurance, car maintenance, heating, landline the lot, added a thousand pounds for house maintenance and then added thirty percent for Australia having higher prices and have been working on that figure as a minimum ever since. From what you are saying, it might actually be a bit less than that. Very cheering. The big blot on the landscape is the exchange rate but we aren't planning to move till next year, so we'll worry about that then. At least I've managed to stop wanting to punch everyone I know who voted Brexit :-)

 

I have only just started factoring in the cost of trips to Australia - so that's quite an annual lump saved!!!

 

We were fortunate in that we brought money over at better than 2:1. At that rate many things here appear cheap. The house we bought here has a 3.5kwh solar system and ducted/zoned air conditioning/heating. It is much larger than our UK house which was semi-detached, much larger than we need really - but we love it.

 

We moved in on 2 Oct 2015 so now have a year of bills. I organise payments but my wife has been managing the budget. Happy to share that info with you if it helps but rather than hijack the thread you can PM me.

[Petals]

Just to say that all the years I have lived here I have never heard anyone have resentment or make any comment about older people costing the country money. Most Australians are very family orientated and mum is usually the head of the family. So I think anyone who worries about how they will be received is worrying for nothing. Its just dealing with all the red tape that gives that impression.

[Fisher1]

Just to say that all the years I have lived here I have never heard anyone have resentment or make any comment about older people costing the country money. Most Australians are very family orientated and mum is usually the head of the family. So I think anyone who worries about how they will be received is worrying for nothing. Its just dealing with all the red tape that gives that impression.

 

I have never worried about it before reading this thread!

[Marisawright]

I have never worried about it before reading this thread!

 

I don't think you should worry about it.

 

I can see why the Australian government doesn't want retirees coming to Australia. I'm over 60 myself and though I'm still (touch wood) reasonably fit and healthy, I know that's not going to last. In the next twenty or thirty years I'm likely to become a greater and greater burden on the health/aged care system until I die, that's what happens when you get old. But I've paid 30 years' worth of taxes and Medicare levies to the Australian government to help pay for that. A British or Indian or African pensioner arriving in Australia hasn't. Sure, once you arrive you'll pay taxes and contribute to the economy yadda yadda - but so will I. There's no way to make up for the 30 years of taxes you didn't pay, except to pay a high fee for the Contributory visa. Otherwise it's my taxes that are paying for your health care!

 

Having said that, I don't think the average Australian would give it a second thought in their daily lives. Many wouldn't even be aware how it works, and if they do know, they know it's a lot of money to get te visa and probably assume that it's been calculated to cover the cost.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Marisawright

[Fisher1]

I don't think you should worry about it.

 

I can see why the Australian government doesn't want retirees coming to Australia. I'm over 60 myself and though I'm still (touch wood) reasonably fit and healthy, I know that's not going to last. In the next twenty or thirty years I'm likely to become a greater and greater burden on the health/aged care system until I die, that's what happens when you get old. But I've paid 30 years' worth of taxes and Medicare levies to the Australian government to help pay for that. A British or Indian or African pensioner arriving in Australia hasn't. Sure, once you arrive you'll pay taxes and contribute to the economy yadda yadda - but so will I. There's no way to make up for the 30 years of taxes you didn't pay, except to pay a high fee for the Contributory visa. Otherwise it's my taxes that are paying for your health care!

 

Having said that, I don't think the average Australian would give it a second thought in their daily lives. Many wouldn't even be aware how it works, and if they do know, they know it's a lot of money to get te visa and probably assume that it's been calculated to cover the cost.

 

 

i think that's why I've found this thread a bit upsetting - I had assumed that the visa had been carefully calculated to cover the cost :-) and that the relatively low cost would be offset by the number of people who paid for the visa and then either died early or managed to pay for everything themselves ... Naive perhaps but then you see what you want to see ... and I actually really hate the idea of getting something I'm not entitled to and haven't paid for. All that gratitude mixed in with your cornflakes every day. I makes me think anew about the plight of refugees and how hideous everything must be for them - we are so lucky really and I know I don't think about that nearly often enough.

 

i think this subjects been just about done to death for me now. Lots of food for thought, and thanks everyone for that. Next stop Sydney ... Actually no, next stop the estate agents :-)

Edited September 21, 2016 by Fisher1

[Karen j]

It's making me think twice too! I realise you have five years after the visa is granted to move over, its time enough to reflect, do you have to move over permanently after this time? Otherwise give up your visa?

[Quoll]

It's making me think twice too! I realise you have five years after the visa is granted to move over, its time enough to reflect, do you have to move over permanently after this time? Otherwise give up your visa?

 

Pretty much, yes. You could move over, do your 4 years, get citizenship then move back if you wanted. You never know what life is going to throw at you. I wouldn't be selling up in UK until I was darned sure I wouldn't want to move back at some stage - selling a home for example - rent it out instead then you have a foot in the door if you want to move.

[Gbye grey sky]

I don't think you should worry about it.

 

I can see why the Australian government doesn't want retirees coming to Australia. I'm over 60 myself and though I'm still (touch wood) reasonably fit and healthy, I know that's not going to last. In the next twenty or thirty years I'm likely to become a greater and greater burden on the health/aged care system until I die, that's what happens when you get old. But I've paid 30 years' worth of taxes and Medicare levies to the Australian government to help pay for that. A British or Indian or African pensioner arriving in Australia hasn't. Sure, once you arrive you'll pay taxes and contribute to the economy yadda yadda - but so will I. There's no way to make up for the 30 years of taxes you didn't pay, except to pay a high fee for the Contributory visa. Otherwise it's my taxes that are paying for your health care!

 

Having said that, I don't think the average Australian would give it a second thought in their daily lives. Many wouldn't even be aware how it works, and if they do know, they know it's a lot of money to get te visa and probably assume that it's been calculated to cover the cost.

 

This assumes that the only value of migrants to the Australian economy is the work that they perform or the taxes they pay. Financially secure older migrants will often bring substantial capital with them from another country and that will all be subsumed into the Australian economy over time.

[AJ]

 

This assumes that the only value of migrants to the Australian economy is the work that they perform or the taxes they pay. Financially secure older migrants will often bring substantial capital with them from another country and that will all be subsumed into the Australian economy over time.

and there are also a lot of non contributory parent visas issued so all their health care etc needs to be paid for, where does that money come from?

[Marisawright]

and there are also a lot of non contributory parent visas issued so all their health care etc needs to be paid for, where does that money come from?

 

Our taxes of course, which is why I can't quite understand why they still exist - although I believe it takes aeons to get one these days?

Edited September 22, 2016 by Marisawright

[amibovered]

[h=1]Immigrants' elderly parents required to get private health insurance under new visa terms[/h] By political reporter Stephanie Anderson

Posted about an hour ago

Photo: Temporary sponsored parent visas allow people to visit family in Australia for five years at a time. (AAP)

Map: Australia

 

The aged parents of immigrants in Australia will have to get private health insurance and financial backing from their children before being able to access a new temporary visa being introduced by the Government.

[h=2]Key points:[/h]

 

• Temporary sponsored parent visa to be in place by July 2017

• New requirements aim to protect health system from extra costs

• Program available to parents of Australian citizens, permanent residents and eligible NZ citizens

 

 

 

Assistant Immigration Minister Alex Hawke said the new temporary sponsored parent visa, which allows people to visit family in Australia for five years at a time, will be in place by July 2017.

Mr Hawke told reporters in Sydney the Government wanted the new visa program to be more affordable than current arrangements without burdening the taxpayer.

 

"If we are to have more aged parents who have come from overseas here with us visiting or staying, we have to ensure that our already overburdened health system is protected from extra cost," he said.

"It's a key issue."

The announcement follows a report issued by the Productivity Commission, which recommended the introduction of a temporary visa for parents, which would allow them to stay for a longer period of time as long as the sponsoring child met the necessary health and income costs during their stay.

The report stated the "cumulated lifetime fiscal costs" of a parent visa holder under the current system was estimated to be between $335,000 and $410,000 per adult in 2015-16.

"On this basis, the net liability to the Australian community of providing assistance to these 8,700 parents over their lifetime ranges between $2.6 and $3.2 billion in present value terms," it stated.

"Given that there is a new inflow each year, the accumulated taxpayer liabilities become very large over time. This is a high cost for a relatively small group."

[h=2]Visa category may take 30 years to process[/h]A discussion paper issued by the Department of Immigration and Border Protection outlined the two categories of parent visas already available, one of which may take "approximately 30 years" to process.

The other stream is generally finalised within two years.

"The number of permanent visa places for parents made available in the Migration Programme is small and waiting times can be lengthy," the paper states.

"The Government's intention is that any new temporary parent visa arrangement should help offset these issues, while allowing Australia to benefit socially through having united families and cohesive communities.

"At the same time, the financial cost of offering a new temporary visa for parents should not become a burden to the Australian community."

Mr Hawke said the visa program would be available to parents of Australian citizens, permanent residents and "eligible New Zealand citizens".

 

 

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-23/immigrants%27-parents-required-to-access-private-health-insurance/7872340

[Parley]

With all things a civilised society has to strike a balance with recognizing the cost of something and the humanitarian need to do something.

 

A bit like taking in refugees in a way.

We know they are going to be an impost on society but you do the right thing to a certain level.

 

Same with parents. You try and defray some of the costs. But recognize you should let some in even though it will cost you money.

[Fisher1]

With all things a civilised society has to strike a balance with recognizing the cost of something and the humanitarian need to do something.

 

A bit like taking in refugees in a way.

We know they are going to be an impost on society but you do the right thing to a certain level.

 

Same with parents. You try and defray some of the costs. But recognize you should let some in even though it will cost you money.

 

Not often I agree with you Parley but on this occasion ...