silencio Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 (edited) Well, that would be a stupid plan considering that the maximum single age pension is around $400 a week and average rents alone in Oz capital cities vary between $600 and 340 a week. The reason so many older Australians receive some form of pension at the moment is because superannuation wasn't accessible to the majority of them in their working years. When I started work in Australia the late 1960's only 30% of workers had access to a superannuation scheme. And most of those were men: only 15% of female employees had access to any form of superannuation. You nailed it! The Australian pension (I should rather say absence of any regulated Pension in the past) used to be completely different to the UK, German or other European version as mandatory Super was only introduced in the 1992 by the Keating Labor government. That's the reason why retirees from the UK or other European countries with mandatory pension schemes are far more better off financially (of course this applies to males in the first place as females often have less in these European countries as well due to raising a family and working part-time). Furthermore Australian pensioners - like my relatives who migrated to Australia 30-40 years ago - are staying in oversized houses (after the children moved out) because if sold and in case they don't purchase a new house equal that value of the former one all liquid assets fall under the Centrelink means test. The story unfolds in Sydney and everyone knows the ballooned prices there. Edited September 24, 2016 by silencio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Canada and Australia and others have been banging on about the frozen state pension for decades. Always get fobbed off. It's a stalemate. Britain started freezing the pension when the agreement between Australia and the UK expired in 2001. Britain won't unfreeze their pension unless Australia agrees to pay its citizens overseas a pension (currently an Australian citizen abroad can't get any pension at all, unless they were over retirement age when they left). Australia isn't happy about something Britain proposes to do (I forget what). Anyhoo they can't agree so that's why it is the way it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 I think a 5 year visa sounds pretty disgusting. What happens when the parent has become old and frail after their 5 years is up? Sounds heartless to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 I think a 5 year visa sounds pretty disgusting. What happens when the parent has become old and frail after their 5 years is up? Sounds heartless to me. I tend to agree with you. I just don't see what it achieves, having read it up, it sounds potentially expensive, only valid for 5 years, then renewable? or will you have to go off shore to renew, all seems a bit vague at the moment. I know I am on the old 410 visa, but we came as retirees, no children here at that time, but it cost very little and knew that it could be renewed with no problem, so could see a future here. I would think long and hard about applying for this one. Although as far as we have been informed there are no changes planned for our visa, ( P Dutton stated this when we met with him) I feel a bit insecure occasionally as we have made our lives here, and I would hate to have to leave because of visa changes. So if as a parent I thought I could only be here for the duration of an expensive 5 year visa, and then perhaps had to go home I really doubt it would make sense. What would happen if God forbid your sponsor died? so many visas insist you leave pretty quickly if your visa conditions change? Where will you live? can you buy, is it even worth it on a 5 year visa?? Time will tell what the conditions will be, all speculation at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted September 24, 2016 Author Share Posted September 24, 2016 Surely if you really wanted to live near your children you would do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher1 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Surely if you really wanted to live near your children you would do it. I don't think anyone is in any doubt about wanting to live near their children. But there has to come a point at which living near your children ceases to be a viable proposition. Everyone probably has their own sticking point but I wouldn't want to put myself in a position where I was scraping around for money solely because of a move closer to my daughter and she wouldn't want that for me either. I wouldn't contemplate moving at all if it wasn't so far away - but that's the crux of the issue isn't it? If my daughter lived in Spain I wouldn't up sticks and move to Spain - because I could hop over for a weekend whenever I wanted and so could she. Australia is such a pain of a place to get to it prompts you to move. But not at any cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher1 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 You nailed it! The Australian pension (I should rather say absence of any regulated Pension in the past) used to be completely different to the UK, German or other European version as mandatory Super was only introduced in the 1992 by the Keating Labor government. That's the reason why retirees from the UK or other European countries with mandatory pension schemes are far more better off financially (of course this applies to males in the first place as females often have less in these European countries as well due to raising a family and working part-time). Furthermore Australian pensioners - like my relatives who migrated to Australia 30-40 years ago - are staying in oversized houses (after the children moved out) because if sold and in case they don't purchase a new house equal that value of the former one all liquid assets fall under the Centrelink means test. The story unfolds in Sydney and everyone knows the ballooned prices there. My word, Your English has improved since this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted September 24, 2016 Author Share Posted September 24, 2016 I don't think anyone is in any doubt about wanting to live near their children. But there has to come a point at which living near your children ceases to be a viable proposition. Everyone probably has their own sticking point but I wouldn't want to put myself in a position where I was scraping around for money solely because of a move closer to my daughter and she wouldn't want that for me either. I wouldn't contemplate moving at all if it wasn't so far away - but that's the crux of the issue isn't it? If my daughter lived in Spain I wouldn't up sticks and move to Spain - because I could hop over for a weekend whenever I wanted and so could she. Australia is such a pain of a place to get to it prompts you to move. But not at any cost. I don't think many would take that view. Many older people would give anything to live close to the children and grandchildren and I'm sure this visa will be taken up in droves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Surely if you really wanted to live near your children you would do it. I think it will all depend on reality of the cost when the details are finalised. I am posting because I am on a long term temporary visa, so know that the government can change the rules if or when it suits them. So what starts out as affordable can become very unaffordable in the long term, especially with no PR at the end. We have been very lucky that we qualified for the 410 before it ceased and the incredibly expensive 405 investment retirement visa sort of replaced it. The only changes to our visa have been in our favour, and it's renewed with no hassle. However the many friends that we know on the 405 visa have seen the cost to re-apply go up significantly every 4 years I think it's about $12,00 each, and they now need to re-apply at least 9 months before the end date, to ensure it's through in time. They have to go through every check again, eg financial have a medical, police checks all adding to the cost, and to be honest the stress when you are older. So I really hope this new temporary visa won't be as difficult and as expensive as this, because it will make it unaffordable to many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petals Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 (edited) Interesting thinking that everyone gets the pension. I do not get a pension, I used to get a very small pension from the government and with it the blue card, the card that reduces rates and other services. Now I get the Commonwealth Health Card all that gives me is cheaper medicines. Why, because my husband died. So my assets cannot be split now. There will be many many many women or men like me where this has happened. I cannot sell my home because I need to pay or an equal home to not have more assets. However to be honest I could not live on the pension anyway. So I think I am lucky. I also hated the fact that Centrelink wanted to know every time I did this or did that with my finances. Now I am a freeeeeeee from Centrelink person. I get a small British Pension though. I also lost my small NZ pension when he died. Edited September 24, 2016 by Petals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted September 24, 2016 Author Share Posted September 24, 2016 The thing is now you need about $1M in liquid assets after retirement to provide an income that would better the age pension of about $780 a fortnight. Some advisers are saying it is better to spend the money now or put it into your home by way of renovations so you qualify for the pension. I forget the exact figures but it seems crazy if people are spending up their savings on holidays and things just to get the pension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencio Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 My word, Your English has improved since this morning. No, I've used my computer this morning instead of my mobile phone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher1 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 No, I've used my computer this morning instead of my mobile phone Seriously, you need a refund on the phone. I'd ask for one on the statistics course as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debstu Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Hi Fisher 1. We have just applied for our 143 visa and are 50 and 57 so will be working and contributing to the economy when we arrive. Not all parent migrants are of pensionable age. We are very much looking forward to the challenge of building a new life for ourselves and spending time with our new grandchildren. Can I ask how you managed to get your CPV so quickly, we just submitted ours and we're quoted 12 - 24 months for allocation of a case worker! Just interested in how you did it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher1 Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Hi Fisher 1. We have just applied for our 143 visa and are 50 and 57 so will be working and contributing to the economy when we arrive. Not all parent migrants are of pensionable age. We are very much looking forward to the challenge of building a new life for ourselves and spending time with our new grandchildren. Can I ask how you managed to get your CPV so quickly, we just submitted ours and we're quoted 12 - 24 months for allocation of a case worker! Just interested in how you did it! If you look carefully you will see that we first applied for a 103 visa in February 2013. We then applied for a 143 visa in Jan 2016 - and payed the first vac again- and the kind people at immi counted the time we had already been waiting ... Just under three years. trust me, there are no shortcuts :-) Good luck with it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debstu Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Ahh I did wonder if that might be the case. When are you planning on actually going as your status says you are still here and where are you relocating to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 Assuming you can find jobs Debbie. It is very hard in your 50's and 60's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debstu Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 My other half is just 50 and on the wanted skills list and a vehicle painter. He is on the books of an agency that specialises in the automotive industry and looking for a sponsor for him. I have been a finance manager of a smallish manufacturing company and am pretty multi skilled, can turn my hand to most things and won't mind a complete change of career. Would even stack shelves at the local supermarket but mainly hope to be a support for my son and his young family. My son is confident we will be able to get work so I trust his judgement. What makes you think it will be so hard for us as that's a worry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 Just as I said, finding work over the age of 50 can be very hard for many people. A lot end up languishing on unemployment benefits because employers want younger people. Hopefully that doesn't happen to you but it does to many mature age job seekers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 My other half is just 50 and on the wanted skills list and a vehicle painter. He is on the books of an agency that specialises in the automotive industry and looking for a sponsor for him. I have been a finance manager of a smallish manufacturing company and am pretty multi skilled, can turn my hand to most things and won't mind a complete change of career. Would even stack shelves at the local supermarket but mainly hope to be a support for my son and his young family. My son is confident we will be able to get work so I trust his judgement. What makes you think it will be so hard for us as that's a worry! If he is coming on a 143 he doesn't need a sponsor. And TBH with his skills/age combination he wouldn't qualify for a visa sponsored by an employer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta2 Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Many people have no idea how hard it is to live on the pension. Just have a look at what the pensioners put in their shopping trolleys! Around here, it's often not hard to identify the houses that pensioners live in because they can't afford to maintain them. My neighbour is a case in point because his parents, now in their eighties and on the pension, live in an old Queenslander that is deteriorating because the parents can't afford to maintain it. If you own a Queenslander,, you need to budget about $2,000 a year just for repainting. Of course, the obvious thing would be for the five children to pool resources to maintain the house, which is heritage-listed. But of course they can't agree. (The parents haven't helped by letting it be known that according to their wills, their estate will go only to the grandchildren.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debstu Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 If he is coming on a 143 he doesn't need a sponsor. And TBH with his skills/age combination he wouldn't qualify for a visa sponsored by an employer Hi Nemesis, he is looking for a employer to sponsor him on a 457 visa. But if that doesn't materialise we will have to wait for our 143 to come through. Quite nervous though about the job prospects going by the comments if age might be an issue. There are always plenty of jobs advertised in the bayside area of Melbourne on SEEK and Indeed job websites. Fingers crossed it's not all doom and gloom given what we are giving up in our comfortable life in the UK just not happy to be away from the grandchildren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Just as I said, finding work over the age of 50 can be very hard for many people.A lot end up languishing on unemployment benefits because employers want younger people. Hopefully that doesn't happen to you but it does to many mature age job seekers. We often disagree Parley, but in this instance I agree with you. I feel Australian employers are far more ageist than British ones, at least they were in Sydney. I'm hoping it will be different in Melbourne but maybe that is a forlorn hope . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debstu Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Oh dear,that sounds ominous. Let's hope it not so bad for us, really hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher1 Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) Many people have no idea how hard it is to live on the pension. Just have a look at what the pensioners put in their shopping trolleys! Around here, it's often not hard to identify the houses that pensioners live in because they can't afford to maintain them. My neighbour is a case in point because his parents, now in their eighties and on the pension, live in an old Queenslander that is deteriorating because the parents can't afford to maintain it. If you own a Queenslander,, you need to budget about $2,000 a year just for repainting. Of course, the obvious thing would be for the five children to pool resources to maintain the house, which is heritage-listed. But of course they can't agree. (The parents haven't helped by letting it be known that according to their wills, their estate will go only to the grandchildren.) i don't see the relevance of this? The poster was saying that they hoped to find work. Nobody was talking about living on " the pension" just now - in fact the poster had already said they were a long way off pensionable age? Can I just say once again that the word "pension" seems to mean quite different things in Australia and in the UK and that being on a pension does not necessarily mean choosing between eating or heating. Also, some people want to work, not primarily for the money, although that is clearly very welcome, but because they still feel they something to offer. However the the discussion was actually about finding work. Debbie if you look on the parents thread, you will find there are people who have been posting there during the last twelve months who have found work. I get the impression that it is quite difficult and that Australians tend to be more ageist but people do succeed in some cases. If you go on the parents thread you'll also find a lot of moral support and information. PS Do people actually go round checking what pensioners put in their shopping trolleys? Goodness that sounds a bit desperate ... Edited October 2, 2016 by Fisher1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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