Permanent Parent Visas to be abolished ?

[ramot]

Hi Ramot, I've only just seen this. would you mind letting me have the name of the company that provides you with travel insurance for ninety days? We travelled over to Oz for ten weeks this spring and had a problem getting cover for over 30 days. Tried several firms online and they all said the same thing - thirty day maximum trip. Saga still do travel insurance, but they also limited 66 year olds and over to 30 days for a single trip. In the end we made it because we had an annual multi trip policy and they said that they counted the age you took the policy out as the age for the entire year.

 

As we are currently still in the UK it would be great to know we could still get insurance for longer trips.

 

We are in Australia so sorry can't help with insurance from UK.

 

I honestly don't know if it's the same in UK, but I play bridge in an affiliated club and we can get insurance through it, we don't use it but you can get annual or shorter cover up to age 90!!!! Obviously costs more the older you are, some people join, never play just to take advantage of the insurance.

 

Also we are in Probus and can get cover through that.

 

Good luck.

 

Depending on the level of your credit card, if you pay for your trip by card you are covered by their insurance. We have used this, this time and just stipulated the length of the trip. Worth checking?

Edited September 14, 2016 by ramot

[Roberta2]

I don't know much about pensions because no one in my family in recent years has been on one. Our system seems to have evolved differently from those in the UK and New Zealand. Everyone over 65 is entitled to the pension, provided they meet the assets and income tests.

 

 

The asset test is relatively generous, but the pension itself is quite low. Many people get access to a part pension, which gives them quite a lot of benefits. Superannuation is supposed over time to reduce the number of people on the pension, but currently about 85% of people retiring are still on the pension. Wherever I take my 92 year old mother, people are surprised that she is not on the pension. My father was a veteran, but she was deemed ineligible for the Gold Card after he died (despite best efforts from me and Legacy.)

 

There are always debates about the pension. e.g. should the "family home" be included in the assets test? We no longer have death duties here, remember. (My accountant is from Belgium. This was a subject of debate a couple of days ago.)

 

The "frozen asset" problem for the Poms is a product of history and quite illogical - it applies only to those emigrating to the former British Empire, but not elsewhere. So Poms going to the US don't have their pensions frozen, but those going to Canada and Australia do. I don't know the history of how this came about.

 

I certainly think any parent contemplating migrating to Australia should pay to get some decent advice about a whole range of financial issues, including access to aged care. For example, pensioners do of course get access to aged care, and standards have been improved a lot lately. But aged care homes are obliged to offer only about 14% of beds to pensioners. Pensioners who don't have a home to sell to fund their accommodation are in the worst position of course. They have little choice about where they go. When they do find a place, the government takes 85% of their pension back

. Of course, they do have to be looked after while a place is found for them - hospitals can't just turf them out.

[flag of convenience]

I don't know much about pensions because no one in my family in recent years has been on one. Our system seems to have evolved differently from those in the UK and New Zealand. Everyone over 65 is entitled to the pension, provided they meet the assets and income tests.

 

 

The asset test is relatively generous, but the pension itself is quite low. Many people get access to a part pension, which gives them quite a lot of benefits. Superannuation is supposed over time to reduce the number of people on the pension, but currently about 85% of people retiring are still on the pension. Wherever I take my 92 year old mother, people are surprised that she is not on the pension. My father was a veteran, but she was deemed ineligible for the Gold Card after he died (despite best efforts from me and Legacy.)

 

There are always debates about the pension. e.g. should the "family home" be included in the assets test? We no longer have death duties here, remember. (My accountant is from Belgium. This was a subject of debate a couple of days ago.)

 

The "frozen asset" problem for the Poms is a product of history and quite illogical - it applies only to those emigrating to the former British Empire, but not elsewhere. So Poms going to the US don't have their pensions frozen, but those going to Canada and Australia do. I don't know the history of how this came about.

 

I certainly think any parent contemplating migrating to Australia should pay to get some decent advice about a whole range of financial issues, including access to aged care. For example, pensioners do of course get access to aged care, and standards have been improved a lot lately. But aged care homes are obliged to offer only about 14% of beds to pensioners. Pensioners who don't have a home to sell to fund their accommodation are in the worst position of course. They have little choice about where they go. When they do find a place, the government takes 85% of their pension back

. Of course, they do have to be looked after while a place is found for them - hospitals can't just turf them out.

 

I think ' quite low' when talking in terms of the Australian pension is something of an understatement. Considering the high cost of life here in recent years, it is rather deplorable.

[purpleal]

My Mother has never taken out seperate travel insurance when she has visited Australia. She has always used the insurance via her credit card. Last December, she was bitten by a tick and had a severe reaction which resulted in several trips to the GP - all of which were paid for by the insurer.

[Roberta2]

ind out about payment rates for Age Pension.

There are different rates of Age Pension payments for single people and couples. Your rate also depends on your income, assets, and other circumstances.

[TABLE=width: 684]

[TR]

[TH=bgcolor: #D1D1D1, align: left]Pension rates per fortnight[/TH]

[TH=bgcolor: #D1D1D1, align: left]Single[/TH]

[TH=bgcolor: #D1D1D1, align: left]Couple each[/TH]

[TH=bgcolor: #D1D1D1, align: left]Couple combined[/TH]

[TH=bgcolor: #D1D1D1, align: left]Couple each

separated due to ill health[/TH]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Maximum basic rate[/TD]

[TD]$794.80[/TD]

[TD]$599.10[/TD]

[TD]$1,198.20[/TD]

[TD]$794.80[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=bgcolor: #EAEAEA]

[TD]Maximum Pension Supplement[/TD]

[TD]$65.00[/TD]

[TD]$49.00[/TD]

[TD]$98.00[/TD]

[TD]$65.00[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Energy Supplement[/TD]

[TD]$14.10[/TD]

[TD]$10.60[/TD]

[TD]$21.20[/TD]

[TD]$14.10[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]TOTAL[/TD]

[TD]$873.90[/TD]

[TD]$658.70[/TD]

[TD]$1,317.40[/TD]

[TD]$873.90[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[Parley]

If UK parents are worried about the frozen pension then they are the one's who definitely should not be able to come.

They are likely to be a significant burden on the Australian taxpayer as they won't be able to support themselves properly.

[ramot]

If UK parents are worried about the frozen pension then they are the one's who definitely should not be able to come.

They are likely to be a significant burden on the Australian taxpayer as they won't be able to support themselves properly.

 

Poster(not a UK parent) on post 17 made a comment about Poms on the frozen state pension. To the best of my knowledge I have never seen a post from a potential parent visa applicant claiming that is their only source of income. I think it would be unusual to not have a work pension of some sort.

Perhaps proof of a minimum annual income should be a condition of the visa.

[Fisher1]

We are in Australia so sorry can't help with insurance from UK.

 

I honestly don't know if it's the same in UK, but I play bridge in an affiliated club and we can get insurance through it, we don't use it but you can get annual or shorter cover up to age 90!!!! Obviously costs more the older you are, some people join, never play just to take advantage of the insurance.

 

Also we are in Probus and can get cover through that.

 

Good luck.

 

Depending on the level of your credit card, if you pay for your trip by card you are covered by their insurance. We have used this, this time and just stipulated the length of the trip. Worth checking?

 

 

 

Thanks for that Ramot.

 

We have no problem at all getting travel insurance. The difficulty is getting travel insurance to cover a trip that lasts more than a month.

[Fisher1]

Poster(not a UK parent) on post 17 made a comment about Poms on the frozen state pension. To the best of my knowledge I have never seen a post from a potential parent visa applicant claiming that is their only source of income. I think it would be unusual to not have a work pension of some sort.

Perhaps proof of a minimum annual income should be a condition of the visa.

 

 

Agreed. As I said in my earlier post, most people would wince at the idea of having to manage in Australia on approximately $200 a week.

 

I think this discussion is being confused by the use of terms that mean different things in the UK and Australia. Roberta you referred to aged care homes being obliged to offer places to only a certain % of pensioners ... It took me a minute to work our what you meant because in the UK everyone over the age of about 65 is a pensioner.

 

I think it stems from pensions in the UK being paid for throughout life, and not being a benefit. This makes a big difference, especially if you are trying to get an Australian bank to take you seriously.

[Roberta2]

Two separate issues:

 

I said that aged care homes are obliged by law to offer about 14% of their places to pensioners. Some - such as the Church-based one my mother lives in - offer a higher per centage of their rooms to pensioners. All age pensioners are eligible for an aged care place if they meet the criteria for needing residential care, as assessed by the ACAT.

 

Everyone in Australia aged about 66 is eligible for the aged pension if they meet the asset and income criteria. (The age limit is slowly being increased, as are the preservation ages for superannuation pensions.)

[Roberta2]

To clarify: In Australia, retired people fall into two categories. (a) Self funded retirees. They can either be like my mother, who were never eligible for superannuation but provided for her own retirement through investments in shares and/or property over the years, or they can be people who have benefited from the superannuation reforms of the 1990s. Or of course they can have a bit of both.

 

Before the 1990s, superannuation was not common in the private sector. (One reason that public service jobs were attractive.) Most people expected to "go on the pension", as indeed my four grandparents did once they reached 65. Things have not changed as much as they were supposed to, with 85% of retirees still going on the full aged pension today.

 

 

(b) old age pensioners.

 

In the nursing homes, the self funded retirees (like my mother) are in effect cross subsidizing the pensioners via the hefty "means tested care fees" that the self-funded pay. Some of them are not too happy about that. But those fees do have a lifetime cap of $60,000. Of course, the main cost is borne by the taxpayer. Aged care is expensive here, even if the workers are not especially well paid.

 

SO - all people on the aged pension are entitled to a residential aged care place if they meet the health needs criteria. But they may not have much say in where they go, and couples may be separated. Everything is assessed on an individual basis. Some aged care homes do have double rooms though. Others have rooms meant for one but can fit in a couple.

 

Don't forget that most of those who get the aged pension have paid taxes throughout their lives. My grandfathers always worked, and so did one of my grandmothers.

 

And no, there is no reason to expect an Australian bank manager to understand the UK, NZ, Japanese or any other pension system.

[Parley]

Is this relevant to the topic.

[flag of convenience]

To clarify: In Australia, retired people fall into two categories. (a) Self funded retirees. They can either be like my mother, who were never eligible for superannuation but provided for her own retirement through investments in shares and/or property over the years, or they can be people who have benefited from the superannuation reforms of the 1990s. Or of course they can have a bit of both.

 

Before the 1990s, superannuation was not common in the private sector. (One reason that public service jobs were attractive.) Most people expected to "go on the pension", as indeed my four grandparents did once they reached 65. Things have not changed as much as they were supposed to, with 85% of retirees still going on the full aged pension today.

 

 

(b) old age pensioners.

 

In the nursing homes, the self funded retirees (like my mother) are in effect cross subsidizing the pensioners via the hefty "means tested care fees" that the self-funded pay. Some of them are not too happy about that. But those fees do have a lifetime cap of $60,000. Of course, the main cost is borne by the taxpayer. Aged care is expensive here, even if the workers are not especially well paid.

 

SO - all people on the aged pension are entitled to a residential aged care place if they meet the health needs criteria. But they may not have much say in where they go, and couples may be separated. Everything is assessed on an individual basis. Some aged care homes do have double rooms though. Others have rooms meant for one but can fit in a couple.

 

Don't forget that most of those who get the aged pension have paid taxes throughout their lives. My grandfathers always worked, and so did one of my grandmothers.

 

And no, there is no reason to expect an Australian bank manager to understand the UK, NZ, Japanese or any other pension system.

 

A major issue for the country to tackle in the not too distant future. Age poverty already a growing issue in this country. Odd thing is the government discourages aged folk from resettling in far cheaper countries like Thailand and other South East Asian destinations due to the process of payment of pension.

This country has long focused more on youth to the disdain of its aged, whom are somewhat to my thinking out of sight and out of mind. I always thought I'd hate to get old here with such attitudes but looks like it may well happen.

The older within the community should organise better and have greater influence on government policy but dropping the naturally taken for granted conservative vote and play the game to their gain.

 

Of subject somewhat, but a very important issue that may well impact on many of us.

[ramot]

To clarify: In Australia, retired people fall into two categories. (a) Self funded retirees. They can either be like my mother, who were never eligible for superannuation but provided for her own retirement through investments in shares and/or property over the years, or they can be people who have benefited from the superannuation reforms of the 1990s. Or of course they can have a bit of both.

 

Before the 1990s, superannuation was not common in the private sector. (One reason that public service jobs were attractive.) Most people expected to "go on the pension", as indeed my four grandparents did once they reached 65. Things have not changed as much as they were supposed to, with 85% of retirees still going on the full aged pension today.

 

 

(b) old age pensioners.

 

In the nursing homes, the self funded retirees (like my mother) are in effect cross subsidizing the pensioners via the hefty "means tested care fees" that the self-funded pay. Some of them are not too happy about that. But those fees do have a lifetime cap of $60,000. Of course, the main cost is borne by the taxpayer. Aged care is expensive here, even if the workers are not especially well paid.

 

SO - all people on the aged pension are entitled to a residential aged care place if they meet the health needs criteria. But they may not have much say in where they go, and couples may be separated. Everything is assessed on an individual basis. Some aged care homes do have double rooms though. Others have rooms meant for one but can fit in a couple.

 

Don't forget that most of those who get the aged pension have paid taxes throughout their lives. My grandfathers always worked, and so did one of my grandmothers.

 

And no, there is no reason to expect an Australian bank manager to understand the UK, NZ, Japanese or any other pension system.

 

To be honest it's the same in Uk unless things have changed since my mother died. Had to sell her house to pay for care, left her with almost nothing when she died, no state help apart from state pension. Lucky she had a house to sell otherwise her choice of care homes were not to be recommended.

I think the cap was 23,000 pds from memory before the state stepped in, before that you paid for everything. Then still had to pay a sliding reduced amount, I think down to 14,000 pds? Not up to speed with the cap now.

Just to show balance to the above.

My poor father in law had to share a room with a stranger, hope that doesn't happen any more.

 

Have gone a bit off topic, but I think it's of interest to prospective parents to be aware of the costs involved in getting older here and the facilties.

Edited September 15, 2016 by ramot

[Parley]

In Australia the home is counted as an asset, but if there is another spouse living in it it doesn't have to be included or sold.

Even if it is sold to pay the Accomodation Bond, most of the bond is paid back to the estate on the death of the resident.

 

I went through this recently with my mum and got nearly all the bond back as she was only in the home for around 1 year.

[Roberta2]

The length of time people are in the home doesn't affect the bond (Refundable Accommodation Deposit). It is returned in full to the estate.

[Fisher1]

To clarify: In Australia, retired people fall into two categories. (a) Self funded retirees. They can either be like my mother, who were never eligible for superannuation but provided for her own retirement through investments in shares and/or property over the years, or they can be people who have benefited from the superannuation reforms of the 1990s. Or of course they can have a bit of both.

 

Before the 1990s, superannuation was not common in the private sector. (One reason that public service jobs were attractive.) Most people expected to "go on the pension", as indeed my four grandparents did once they reached 65. Things have not changed as much as they were supposed to, with 85% of retirees still going on the full aged pension today.

 

 

(b) old age pensioners.

 

In the nursing homes, the self funded retirees (like my mother) are in effect cross subsidizing the pensioners via the hefty "means tested care fees" that the self-funded pay. Some of them are not too happy about that. But those fees do have a lifetime cap of $60,000. Of course, the main cost is borne by the taxpayer. Aged care is expensive here, even if the workers are not especially well paid.

 

SO - all people on the aged pension are entitled to a residential aged care place if they meet the health needs criteria. But they may not have much say in where they go, and couples may be separated. Everything is assessed on an individual basis. Some aged care homes do have double rooms though. Others have rooms meant for one but can fit in a couple.

 

Don't forget that most of those who get the aged pension have paid taxes throughout their lives. My grandfathers always worked, and so did one of my grandmothers.

 

And no, there is no reason to expect an Australian bank manager to understand the UK, NZ, Japanese or any other pension system.

 

 

Can I just clarify my own note and say that I expect nothing? I was trying to point out that Australia and the UK are, in this instance, "divided by a common language." I was also trying to point out that many of the parents migrating to Oz are (in oz speak) self funded retirees. I was also trying to point out that calling ourselves pensioners, or saying that you are in receipt of a pension, can mislead an Australian into thinking you are possibly on a very low income.

 

My comment about Australian bank managers was meant to be lighthearted. Naturally they would have no reason to understand the UK NZ, Japanese or any other pension system, but they may well need to understand the difference in semantics. Last time we were in Sydney we were enquiring about the possibility of taking out a small mortgage, and had to explain that our pension was a self funded one. Interestingly enough, our Australian bank manager copped on very quickly indeed, and also had a joke with us about it.

 

 

If anyone reading is interested, the answer was a qualified yes.

[Fisher1]

To be honest it's the same in Uk unless things have changed since my mother died. Had to sell her house to pay for care, left her with almost nothing when she died, no state help apart from state pension. Lucky she had a house to sell otherwise her choice of care homes were not to be recommended.

I think the cap was 23,000 pds from memory before the state stepped in, before that you paid for everything. Then still had to pay a sliding reduced amount, I think down to 14,000 pds? Not up to speed with the cap now.

Just to show balance to the above.

My poor father in law had to share a room with a stranger, hope that doesn't happen any more.

 

Have gone a bit off topic, but I think it's of interest to prospective parents to be aware of the costs involved in getting older here and the facilties.

 

Its actually £26000 now Ramot, but when the government step in they only pay a low fee. So if your home charges more than the government is willing to pay, you have to move to a cheaper home ... It actually seems to be worse here than in Australia. All totally depressing. I find it horrifying that there is no way to provide for it because the figures are so astronomical. Worrying, wherever you are.

[Parley]

The length of time people are in the home doesn't affect the bond (Refundable Accommodation Deposit). It is returned in full to the estate.

 

The rules did change within the last 2 years.

 

When my mother went through in 2014 she paid an accomodation bond.

The provider retained a retention amount from the bond for each month the resident is in care.

So the amount that is returned to the estate depends on the length of tenure of the resident.

 

In our case the bond was $250K and we got back a bit over $230K after she died after around 1 year in the facility.

 

But the rules have changed for new residents so you may be right now.

Although if you do now get the full bond back then no doubt the daily fees will be higher to compensate.

Edited September 15, 2016 by parleycross

[Roberta2]

New system came in 1 July 2014. Maximum Refundable Accommodation Deposit now $550,000. (In some parts of Sydney, bonds had been well over a million.) With interest rates so low, and likely to continue to be low, I wonder how long this system can last. Declining share prices in the for profit sector tell the story, probably. The homes cannot charge more than what the government mandates, either for care or accommodation. You can't even get on a waiting list now without having completed a Centrelink assessment. It's all so complicated that the broker industry is thriving - often run by ex nurses.

[Roberta2]

In relation to the recent Productivity Commission report, the economist Judith Sloan has an op ed piece in The Australian today. (p.12) Subtitle:"The contributory parent visa costs taxpayers billions and needs an overhaul".

[Fisher1]

I'm beginning to have serious doubts about taking up the parent's visa that I paid for so happily in April. It all sounds a bit desperate and I'm not too sure I want to spend the rest of my life being labelled as some sort of scrounger. My position in the UK as a reasonably comfortably off tax payer looks set to be blown out of the water by the tidal wave of extra bills (medical insurance) expenses (higher taxes) and housing costs I will have to pay in order to cost the Australian government billions.

 

Aus very kindly allows five years from the issue of the visa to make the big move. Time to reflect.

[ramot]

I'm beginning to have serious doubts about taking up the parent's visa that I paid for so happily in April. It all sounds a bit desperate and I'm not too sure I want to spend the rest of my life being labelled as some sort of scrounger. My position in the UK as a reasonably comfortably off tax payer looks set to be blown out of the water by the tidal wave of extra bills (medical insurance) expenses (higher taxes) and housing costs I will have to pay in order to cost the Australian government billions.

 

Aus very kindly allows five years from the issue of the visa to make the big move. Time to reflect.

 

Only you can make that decision, but I wouldn't move back to UK for anything, having too good a time here. Are you backing yourself into a corner being influenced by the negatives?

I have never in the 13 years here ever had a negative comment from anyone about our visa status, remember those who post are in the minority.

Obviously don't know your financial circumstances, and buying a house will be your major expense, but you do get discounts here when over a certain age. Have you considered a retirement village? Might be a cheaper option. Not for us yet, but lots of good ones around and residents happy.

We have a seniors card, get a reduction on various bills, will check with husband what rebates we get, eg rates etc.

We have home assist in QLD who do minor repairs, change light bulbs, clean gutters (we just paid $10 for that) the theory being they don't want us oldies!! Climbing ladders. Get 10% discount at the local green grocers and every one goes there and have a laugh catching up. Plenty of farmers markets for cheaper local produce, Aldi's is cheaper than Woolys or Coles.

you don't have to have health insurance, but most people I know do, there are bulk billing Dr.s.

I have been checking out the benefits of going from our temporary retirement visa to parent visa. Had to go for a scan recently and asked how much I would have had to pay if I had Medicare, the answer Nothing, if you see a specialist then as far as I know you pay a gap from the Medicare amount? but access to the medical services here where we live far out weigh UK.

 

I think income tax is more expensive, again something else we are checking, petrol is of course cheaper, I'm sure we spend far less on air con than we would on central heating, but our house has good air flow, and fans as well.

Obviously the state pension is frozen, but our pensions are index linked.

 

Don't know if any of this has helped, but remember not many of the posters on this thread are on the parent visa, I know some parents have returned due to cost of living over the years, but lots more are still here.

[Roberta2]

Government policy may not necessarily change. True, even the Contributory Parent visa cannot be justified on actuarial grounds, and no doubt the Government Actuary will say so. But nearly half the urban population of Sydney was born overseas. The migrant lobbies are powerful in a large number of key constituencies. It's not as if either major party can afford to be complacent about the next election. Many previous recommendations of the Productivity Commission have been ignored or watered down by governments.

[Petals]

Not all of us get reductions as pensioners it depends on our assets. I get a Commonwealth Medical Card and that is it. That gives me cheaper medicines. No cheaper rates, electricity etc. Need a blue pension card to get those reductions. Also take into account that any pension paid by the UK gov will never increase from the time you move over here. The amount we get the day we take it here is the same a mount for the rest of our lives. So if relying on that they no increments. I think you get the pension here or part pension after so many years here.

 

All countries are making it much harder to move around once we are aged, no one wants oldies. Anyway its something each person has to work out. Personally getting out of the pond when one is older to live near children can be very hard. For a start it depends how easy one makes friends. Also its such a different lifestyle here that has to be considered. I like my pond in Aus and my children do not live close by and that is fine I am not moving to be close to them. Their ponds are different to mine.