Permanent Parent Visas to be abolished ?

[silencio]

This assumes that the only value of migrants to the Australian economy is the work that they perform or the taxes they pay. Financially secure older migrants will often bring substantial capital with them from another country and that will all be subsumed into the Australian economy over time.

 

Yes, indeed the capital lies in the work performance and work contribution of migrants.

 

I'm against of only allowing rich and wealthy parents permanent entry into Australia, buying themselves a ticket so to say whereas on the other hand Australia has a very stringent and strict migration system in place where even younger people not on the SOL are singled out and then you're saying elderly people with money should be allowed in because they are parents of somebody who decided to migrate to Australia.

 

Anyway, the point is not the 'substantial capital' it's the fact that they use tax payer funded public roads, tax payer funded infrastructure, libraries, specialist and doctor services which have already waiting lists for certain conditions, aged care facilities, home care assistance, valued resources which are lacking like water etc.

 

The most important fact is that Australia has one of the most aged population in the Western World, you only have to google 'Silver Tsunami' or work in the Aged Care industry like me.

 

Most parents I know don't have the big funds you're suggesting as Australia is too expensive for them on a normal frozen pension.

[Gbye grey sky]

The most important fact is that Australia has one of the most aged population in the Western World, you only have to google 'Silver Tsunami' or work in the Aged Care industry like me.

 

Sorry about putting facts against a good rant but not in the top 25 apparently. http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-largest-aging-population-in-the-world.html

[ramot]

Yes, indeed the capital lies in the work performance and work contribution of migrants.

 

I'm against of only allowing rich and wealthy parents permanent entry into Australia, buying themselves a ticket so to say whereas on the other hand Australia has a very stringent and strict migration system in place where even younger people not on the SOL are singled out and then you're saying elderly people with money should be allowed in because they are parents of somebody who decided to migrate to Australia.

 

Anyway, the point is not the 'substantial capital' it's the fact that they use tax payer funded public roads, tax payer funded infrastructure, libraries, specialist and doctor services which have already waiting lists for certain conditions, aged care facilities, home care assistance, valued resources which are lacking like water etc.

 

The most important fact is that Australia has one of the most aged population in the Western World, you only have to google 'Silver Tsunami' or work in the Aged Care industry like me.

 

Most parents I know don't have the big funds you're suggesting as Australia is too expensive for them on a normal frozen pension.

 

As a poster in my 70's, even though we are self funded retirees here, an awful lot of my friends have come on the contributory parent visa, and even though I realise we must know different groups of retirees no one I know is short of funds let alone relies on a frozen UK state pension and without exception all have private health, and do not just rely on Medicare, and pay tax here. I'm sure there are plenty who are too poor to pay tax, but there are also plenty with sufficient funds who do pay.

 

We have lived here for 13 years completely self funded and and you could argue have contributed to the economy while costing the country nothing. We are now in a position to apply for contributory parent visa. Certainly don't feel we would be "buying" our way in, we would be applying for an Australian visa that we are eligible to apply for, and accept the conditions of that visa, and would definitely continue with private health, and would now be taxed here.

 

 

There are perhaps more self funded retirees living here than some posters may realise, costing the country nothing, while contributing to the economy.

[silencio]

Sorry about putting facts against a good rant but not in the top 25 apparently. http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-largest-aging-population-in-the-world.html

 

You are not getting the facts right: http://theweek.com/articles/443122/8-maps-show-median-age-every-country-earth IT'S CLEAR THAT AUSTRALIA HAS ONE OF THE OLDEST WESTERN POPULATIONS! I've done my maths to know what a 'silver tsunami' means.

 

I'm talking about Australians future to come and NOT about only this moment in time.

[silencio]

[There are perhaps more self funded retirees living here than some posters may realise, costing the country nothing, while contributing to the economy] Quote Ramot

 

This is not true. Show me the statistics about that. Most elderly people get the Aged Pension or parts of the Aged Pension!

[Fisher1]

You are not getting the facts right: http://theweek.com/articles/443122/8-maps-show-median-age-every-country-earth IT'S CLEAR THAT AUSTRALIA HAS ONE OF THE OLDEST WESTERN POPULATIONS! I've done my maths to know what a 'silver tsunami' means.

 

 

 

 

Nobody over forty anywhere then. How does that work?

Edited September 23, 2016 by Fisher1

[Gbye grey sky]

You are not getting the facts right: http://theweek.com/articles/443122/8-maps-show-median-age-every-country-earth IT'S CLEAR THAT AUSTRALIA HAS ONE OF THE OLDEST WESTERN POPULATIONS! I've done my maths to know what a 'silver tsunami' means.

 

I'm talking about Australians future to come and NOT about only this moment in time.

 

Even your link referring to median age does not support your proposition. Are you confusing Austria with Australia perhaps?

[Fisher1]

Are you a statistician by any chance? You certainly seem to have your finger on the pulse alright - I'm really impressed with your knowledge, I would have no idea how to go about finding out this sort of information.

 

'Most' people ... Now would that be a half of the population of older people, or more than that? Oh, and how are we defining 'elderly' ... Over sixty? Over seventy? Over 80?

 

Now I'm wondering what proportion of any given ten year tranche of the population die before they get to be elderly (whenever that is) ... Would that be half, or most .... Because of course their deaths would alter the overall costs wouldn't they?

 

Most people get Parts of the aged pension ... But I thought it was means tested ... Which parts do they get then?

 

I'm confused.

[silencio]

Abs.com.au

[silencio]

I don't answer to that other stupid statement regarding Austria. Are you really living in Australia? Obviously not as you're replying to am Australian citizen who is here to get thinks right and to help. To be rude is not getting facts right people reading this. Have a look at population proportions

[ramot]

[There are perhaps more self funded retirees living here than some posters may realise, costing the country nothing, while contributing to the economy] Quote Ramot

 

This is not true. Show me the statistics about that. Most elderly people get the Aged Pension or parts of the Aged Pension!

 

I think you misunderstood me. The self funded retirees that I am posting about (including us) are not on the parent visa. We are not Australian.

We are on the long term 410 self funded visa and others are on the 405, all of us from overseas, I was gently pointing out that there are some retirees living here that don't cost the country anything, but contribute to the economy. Hope that's clear now. I was not meaning Australians.

 

I'm sure most of the "elderly" people you know are on the pension or part pension, I'm not disagreeing that you know them. but I am pointing out that I also have many friends who are a similar age group to me who are on the parent visa and have enough money so do not qualify for an Australian pension, as we wouldn't should we apply for a parent visa, now that we can.

We have sufficient income and would then pay tax here.

When Do parents who come on a contributory parent visa qualify for an Australian pension, do they have to be here for 10 years before they can claim, I don't know what the rules are.

Edited September 23, 2016 by ramot

[Gbye grey sky]

[There are perhaps more self funded retirees living here than some posters may realise, costing the country nothing, while contributing to the economy] Quote Ramot

 

This is not true. Show me the statistics about that. Most elderly people get the Aged Pension or parts of the Aged Pension!

 

Most elderly people in Australia have spent their whole lives in Australia. Do your statistics differentiate between those people and those coming in to the country. My suspicion is that many of the immigrants have little or no entitlement to the Australian Aged Pension anyway.

 

You mention the frozen state pension by the UK. This is a scandal that the Australian Government should be lobbying hard to rectify as the Australian taxpayer in some instances is subsidising the British taxpayers.

[silencio]

Fisher is a little bit frustrated tonight. I'm so poor sorry for you

[Gbye grey sky]

I don't answer to that other stupid statement regarding Austria. Are you really living in Australia? Obviously not as you're replying to am Australian citizen who is here to get thinks right and to help. To be rude is not getting facts right people reading this. Have a look at population proportions

 

I was referring to your link which showed that Austria had one of the oldest median populations but Australia didn't.

[Fisher1]

Fisher is a little bit frustrated tonight. I'm so poor sorry for you'

 

 

You said it yourself, Silencio:

 

" To be rude is not getting facts right people reading this. Have a look at population proportions "

 

In my earlier post, I was trying to point out something using humour, but I hadn't realised then that English was a second language for you, and I know that it's easy to misunderstand humour in another language.

 

So let me be clear:

 

Your arguments are resting on generalisations and you don't appear to have the statistics to back them up - they are therefore neither helpful nor 'right'.

 

You are also - despite your own comment quoted above - being extremely rude.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Fisher1

[starlight7]

We are not on the aussie pension and neither are any of our friends. We are all self-funded. We briefly qualified for a $6 per week pension but they removed it after 3 months. It doesn't pay, here, to work hard. Best thing to do is to go on unemployment or disability pension and never work- that way you get the full pension and all the benefits that go with it. Don't forget to vote for the Labor party though because otherwise you just might have to work for your dole.

[Gbye grey sky]

We are not on the aussie pension and neither are any of our friends. We are all self-funded. We briefly qualified for a $6 per week pension but they removed it after 3 months. It doesn't pay, here, to work hard. Best thing to do is to go on unemployment or disability pension and never work- that way you get the full pension and all the benefits that go with it. Don't forget to vote for the Labor party though because otherwise you just might have to work for your dole.

 

Surely though the goal is to be self-funded and self sufficient but with the Age Pension as a safety net for those who, for whatever reason do not manage this.

 

The UKs contributory NI scheme does end up giving an entitlement to a state pension whether needed or not but effectively funded out of contributions from the following generation.

[Karen j]

None of us want to become a burden to the Australian community and I for one would like to work to keep myself rather than expect my daughters to provide my income. I wonder how much this new temporary visa is going to cost?

Edited September 23, 2016 by Karen j

[Parley]

The new visa will be a temporary 5 year visa.

Australians will be able to sponsor their parents to move here for up to 5 years.

 

the visa will commence from July 1st next year.

The government has not yet decided on the cost.

[Skani]

It doesn't pay, here, to work hard. Best thing to do is to go on unemployment or disability pension and never work- that way you get the full pension and all the benefits that go with it.

 

Well, that would be a stupid plan considering that the maximum single age pension is around $400 a week and average rents alone in Oz capital cities vary between $600 and 340 a week.

 

The reason so many older Australians receive some form of pension at the moment is because superannuation wasn't accessible to the majority of them in their working years.

 

When I started work in Australia the late 1960's only 30% of workers had access to a superannuation scheme. And most of those were men: only 15% of female employees had access to any form of superannuation.

[Roberta2]

Canada and Australia and others have been banging on about the frozen state pension for decades. Always get fobbed off.

[Roberta2]

Well, you all have until 31 October to make a submission about the new 5 year temporary parent visa.

[silencio]

Fisher is a little bit frustrated tonight. I'm so poor sorry for you'

 

 

You said it yourself, Silencio:

 

" To be rude is not getting facts right people reading this. Have a look at population proportions "

 

In my earlier post, I was trying to point out something using humour, but I hadn't realised then that English was a second language for you, and I know that it's easy to misunderstand humour in another language.

 

So let me be clear:

 

Your arguments are resting on generalisations and you don't appear to have the statistics to back them up - they are therefore neither helpful nor 'right'.

 

You are also - despite your own comment quoted above - being extremely rude.

[/quote

 

This is just being childish and having a rant at me.

 

This is an insult as you don't know me at all and all what you do is just guessing as well as nobody has the 'perfect statictis'.

 

A little bit too crude for me and I'm gonna report that.

[silencio]

The nerves are raw with some users in this particular thread and I don't post in this section any more as some users take is personally and having a rant at me.

 

It's beyond my intellectual level and I don't respond to any discriminatory statements against myself or my personal opinion as we all don't know each other.

 

In the future I will avoid looking at this thread as some users snap at me as they are becoming emotionally overwhelmed.

 

In the first instance this forum is here to help people and therefore I have suggested to the Team to delete some posts (including some I have made to give it a fair go).

[Karen j]

The new visa will be a temporary 5 year visa.

Australians will be able to sponsor their parents to move here for up to 5 years.

 

the visa will commence from July 1st next year.

The government has not yet decided on the cost.

 

It will be interesting to see if you can work on this visa. I would not want or expect my daughters or the Australian govt. to be responsible for my income. I have worked all my life, I applied for the 143 so that I could come over to Australia and see my daughters more regularly than once a year, not to sponge on anyone, to enjoy and contribute in equal measure.