eu referendum update

[amibovered]

Almost everyone I speak to ,are voting OUT

 

Me too.

[newjez]

I have a simple question for those that support uncontrolled migration.

 

If, as some seem to believe, it is so positive for the UK, then please explain why we shouldn't do the following.

 

We take a fleet of super tankers, we kit them out as giant floating ferries, sail them to Africa and tell everyone that they can freely move to the UK. We could maybe import 10 million a month. If uncontrolled migration is so wonderfully beneficial, we will all be squileonairs by Christmas

 

Yes, but it's not uncontrolled migration - it's controlled by market forces. If there were no jobs they wouldn't come. You can use the same argument for business. Should we have controls - or should we just let market forces have their way. The answer is a little of both. How much of both depends on whether you lean to the right or the left. But you also have to consider efficiency of the market. The labour market is far from efficient. When a job arises in the UK, a Bulgarian isn't suddenly issued with a plane ticket. So - I guess the answer lies in the level of control we apply. For example we could let Europeans in if they can prove they have secured a job, or for a limited time to secure a job.

 

But the problem with Europe is - as Cameron so aptly demonstrated, is that even when you threaten to break their bloody union they don't play ball. Which is why I am hoping for a close stay. With the threat that the next to try, maybe France, might get some concessions and they will start to take things seriously.

 

I don't know. Maybe it does need to be broken so it can be rebuilt. I'm swinging in the wind on this one. Just worried I'll destroy my children's future either way. At least they can always go and live in Australia.

Edited June 10, 2016 by newjez

[BacktoDemocracy]

Having thought about the responses to the issue given by some I can only conclude that despite all the protestations to the contrary, people are simply prejudiced, they would rather retreat into some fantasy land where we will rule a substantial part of the globe again hand in hand with those English speaking countries we settled in the past and everything will return to how it used to be.

The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate, the natives subdued with a few gunboats and the world having to trade with us because we have the most advanced technology,

Well the age of steam, gunpowder and castles is over folks so get in the real world, the world is dominated by big money and it buys and sells individual little countries like this would be for small change to the assets strippers just like BHS, if you're not part of a power-bloc today you're shark bait.

The past is the past and the UK on its own has no chips to play with, I think there are 2 British car marques , Bristol and Morgan, the rest are foreign owned, we have a steel industry that is on its last legs, we are not self sufficient in food production, so in order to have a anachronistic monarchy and keep out foreigners we are going to saddle ourselves with a right wing govt for the foreseeable future and see our working lives constrained by everlasting austerity, that doesn't seem like much of a deal to me.

Edited June 10, 2016 by BacktoDemocracy

[VERYSTORMY]

Yes, but it's not uncontrolled migration - it's controlled by market forces. If there were no jobs they wouldn't come. You can use the same argument for business. Should we have controls - or should we just let market forces have their way. The answer is a little of both. How much of both depends on whether you lean to the right or the left. But you also have to consider efficiency of the market. The labour market is far from efficient. When a job arises in the UK, a Bulgarian isn't suddenly issued with a plane ticket. So - I guess the answer lies in the level of control we apply. For example we could let Europeans in if they can prove they have secured a job, or for a limited time to secure a job.

 

But the problem with Europe is - as Cameron so aptly demonstrated, is that even when you threaten to break their bloody union they don't play ball. Which is why I am hoping for a close stay. With the threat that the next to try, maybe France, might get some concessions and they will start to take things seriously.

 

I don't know. Maybe it does need to be broken so it can be rebuilt. I'm swinging in the wind on this one. Just worried I'll destroy my children's future either way. At least they can always go and live in Australia.

 

If they were coming to do jobs that we had nobody to do them, then that is fine. But, it clearly isn't the case. We have 13% young unemployed. The majority of EU migrants come and do lower paid jobs - just the sort of jobs that young people would normally be doing. But, employers like the migrant as they are often trained. Hence why as well we are seeing a massive reduction in training spend.

 

I don't think that the UK will cause major disruption to the EU if it leaves. But, if one of its founders were to pull the plug, then that is the end of the whole deal.

[tea4too]

If they were coming to do jobs that we had nobody to do them, then that is fine. But, it clearly isn't the case. We have 13% young unemployed. The majority of EU migrants come and do lower paid jobs - just the sort of jobs that young people would normally be doing. But, employers like the migrant as they are often trained. Hence why as well we are seeing a massive reduction in training spend.

 

I don't think that the UK will cause major disruption to the EU if it leaves. But, if one of its founders were to pull the plug, then that is the end of the whole deal.

 

A Report by Jonathon Wadsworth of the London School of Economics found “no evidence of an overall negative impact of immigration on jobs, wages, housing or the crowding out of public services. Any negative impacts on wages of less skilled groups are small. One of the largest impacts of immigration seems to be on public perceptions.”

 

So a lot of people seem to believe immigration is bad for the UK, but the research and evidence doesn’t necessarily support that feeling. T x

 

http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/EA019.pdf

[bunbury61]

Having thought about the responses to the issue given by some I can only conclude that despite all the protestations to the contrary, people are simply prejudiced, they would rather retreat into some fantasy land where we will rule a substantial part of the globe again hand in hand with those English speaking countries we settled in the past and everything will return to how it used to be.

The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate, the natives subdued with a few gunboats and the world having to trade with us because we have the most advanced technology,

Well the age of steam, gunpowder and castles is over folks so get in the real world, the world is dominated by big money and it buys and sells individual little countries like this would be for small change to the assets strippers just like BHS, if you're not part of a power-bloc today you're shark bait.

The past is the past and the UK on its own has no chips to play with, I think there are 2 British car marques , Bristol and Morgan, the rest are foreign owned, we have a steel industry that is on its last legs, we are not self sufficient in food production, so in order to have a anachronistic monarchy and keep out foreigners we are going to saddle ourselves with a right wing govt for the foreseeable future and see our working lives constrained by everlasting austerity, that doesn't seem like much of a deal to me.

 

Bring it on .....this little island has always punched above its weight ...5th largest economy from a dot on the map .

If you have no belief ..no faith ...**** off somewhere else .

No other country on the planet has given the world so much ...language ,music ,art ,literature .

That's why jealousy runs through their veins .

Most of the major sports played...we invented them

Some of the truly great bands are ours ..the Beatles and stones for a start ...can the French ,Germans ir Swiss match it can they bollox .

 

I hope we stand alone again soon

The rest will soon fall into line ...they always do

[Gbye grey sky]

Bring it on .....this little island has always punched above its weight ...5th largest economy from a dot on the map .

If you have no belief ..no faith ...**** off somewhere else .

No other country on the planet has given the world so much ...language ,music ,art ,literature .

That's why jealousy runs through their veins .

Most of the major sports played...we invented them

Some of the truly great bands are ours ..the Beatles and stones for a start ...can the French ,Germans ir Swiss match it can they bollox .

 

I hope we stand alone again soon

The rest will soon fall into line ...they always do

 

If history was the determining factor then the top countries would be the likes of Macedonia or Mongolia. Both highly influential world powers in their day.

 

Once the UK splits up (and it is almost certain at some point in the years after Brexit) England (with Wales and N Ireland) will definitely not be the 5th largest economy.

 

Big business and global corporations owe no loyalty to the UK and have their base of operations in the UK only if it in their interests. The moment it stops being the case they will up sticks taking the jobs with them and the livelihoods of the thousands of small businesses that rely on them. Will Brexit and Scottish separation provide the tipping point with capital looking for the exit? Personally I think it is odds on. Leaving is a major gamble akin to staking your house on an unlikely punt for the chance of winning £10.

 

Pride comes before the fall.

[Peach]

Lifted from facebook:

Immigration has been in the news a lot lately, especially with the EU referendum coming up.

So let's use the tools and data of political science to understand the topic better.

Last year, 270,000 EU citizens immigrated to the UK, and 85,000 returned to the EU. So EU net migration was around 185,000 (1). Additionally, a similar number came from outside the EU, so 330,000 in total.

That was the highest ever level of EU migration – going all the way back to when we joined the EEC in 1975. Indeed during the 1980s the trend was the other way – British workers moved overseas, particularly to Germany, as their economy was doing better than ours at that time. You might remember the TV show ‘Auf Wiedersehen Pet’. Currently our economy is doing better than many European ones so more people are coming than going. But there's no reason to think that will always be the case.

The Leave campaign claim that EU migration is putting unsustainable pressure on our public services, worsening the housing crisis, putting pressure on the NHS, on schools and on our roads. Their latest TV broadcast for instance shows a sick older lady receiving NHS treatment much faster in an imaginary hospital if we leave the EU. Are they right?

Imagine that we left the EU and banned EU immigration completely. Nobody else allowed – no footballers, no entertainers, no chefs, no businessmen, no nurses, no cleaners, nobody. And we kept that door shut for ten years. And for comparison let’s say that we stayed in the EU and immigration continues at this year’s record level (the highest ever) for the next ten years. How would that impact our population and our public services?

In terms of population, we’d end up with 1.85m fewer people living in our country after the 10 years. That sounds like a lot of people, which it is. But we’re a big country – 64.6m in total at the moment (2). So even under these very extreme assumptions the difference is only 2.8%. Less than 1 in 35.

Would you notice the difference if there were 34 instead of 35 people in your doctors’ waiting room? If there were 34 instead of 35 cars ahead of you in the traffic jam? Would your child’s education suffer in a class of 34 instead of 35? I doubt it.

And don’t forget that we’re making crazily unrealistic assumptions about how much we could reduce immigration if we left the EU. Because even the most ardent Leave campaigners don’t say that we should stop immigration altogether. They usually talk of using a points system to reach the government’s net target of 100,000 per year. So the difference in population after 10 years wouldn’t be anything like as much as 1 in 35.

Let’s say we could hit the net target of 100,000 – half from the EU and half from non-EU countries for the sake of argument. In that case, the difference in population after 10 years would be 1.35m or 1 in 49.

And don’t forget that we’re also making another very aggressive assumption – that migration will continue at the same level as last year, our highest ever. It would be more realistic to take the average of the last five years migration (3). If we do that, then the difference in our population after ten years would be only 790,000 or 1 in 82.

1 in 82.

I can’t tell the difference between a crowd of 81 and 82 people (even when they were my own wedding guests!). Can you?

So here’s the thing: however you feel about EU immigration, even under extreme assumptions the impact on our overall population just isn’t very large.

Now at this point some of you might be thinking – “This can't be right - step outside and look with your own eyes! Britain is full of foreigners! The place I grew up is like another country! How can you claim that EU immigration is not significant?”.

I live in inner London so I can sense where you might be coming from. A few things to bear in mind:

1) The overwhelming majority of immigration to the UK over the last 40 years has been from outside the EU (3). However you feel about that, it has nothing to do with our EU membership;

2) Whether you like it or not, Britain has been a multicultural country for several generations at least. You can’t tell whether somebody is an immigrant just by looking at them (sorry if this is an obvious point). You might hazard a guess at their ethnicity or race but that’s a very different thing;

3) Historically, immigrants have clustered in particular areas of the country, so your neighbourhood may not be representative of the country at large;

4) British people from all backgrounds have become much more cosmopolitan in their tastes over the last 40 years. We drink in pubs much less, but enjoy wine at home or go to restaurants and cafes a lot more. Instead of just eating British food, we enjoy flavours from all over the world. So the retail and commercial landscape of our country has changed - to reflect our changing tastes, not just because of new arrivals.

“But wait! What when Turkey, Montenegro and Albania join the EU? We’ll be swamped!”

No we won’t.

Mainly because Turkey and Albania are nowhere near being eligible to join the EU, and Montenegro is tiny. Also don't forget there are 27 other countries in the EU to choose from if residents of those countries did fancy a change of scene.

And even if in the distant future many other countries did join and we did find ourselves swamped, Britain could leave. We’re free to leave the EU whenever we want. But if we leave and then want to rejoin, we’d need the consent of all 27 other member states. Better to stay and keep our options open than leave in fear of something that is very unlikely to happen.

And so far we’ve also not factored in the contribution that immigrants make to our country, and specifically our public finances. EU migrants contribute more in taxes than they use in public services, as they are much more likely to be of working age than the general population (4). So if we used that extra tax revenue to hire more doctors, build more schools, invest in transport and so on, we’d actually have better public services than we would without any EU immigration.

It takes time to hire and train teachers and doctors, build schools and roads, and so forth. So it’s true that a sudden influx of people into an area can put short-term pressure on services. But the fundamental reason for the issues we identified at the start – NHS pressure, oversubscribed schools, congested roads, the housing crisis – is not EU immigration.

We are now six years into a government austerity programme to attempt to balance the books. So it’s not surprising that our public services are feeling the pinch.

An ageing population and new advances in medicine put particular strain on the NHS.

For the last thirty years, we have failed by a wide margin to build enough houses in the UK. Interest rates have been at an ‘emergency’ rate of 0.5% for the last seven years. That is why house prices are so high.

And this story of decades of underinvestment is repeated for our roads and railways too.

All of these issues are home-grown. And all of those policy areas are entirely within the control of our government in Westminster. They have nothing to do with the EU and are not the fault of EU migrants.

Finally, there’s been plenty of academic research into this issue, including a summary paper just published by the London School of Economics (5).

The research shows, contrary to many tabloid headlines, that

1) Immigrants do not take a disproportionate share of jobs created by our economy;

2) There is no evidence of an overall negative impact of immigration on wages;

3) There is no evidence that EU migrants affect the labour market performance of native-born workers (i.e. make it harder for native-born workers to get promoted, get a pay rise, etc)

So it is clear from examining the evidence that fears of immigration have been blown out of all proportion by the Eurosceptic press and the Leave campaign.

But what about all that money we send the EU? Couldn't we use that to improve public services?

Yes, but it wouldn't go very far, and it would be outweighed by the economic damage from leaving.

Our net contribution to the EU was £8.5bn last year (6) which works out at 36 pence per person per day. That is a drop in the ocean compared to our annual NHS budget of £116.4bn (7).

And if you’re trying to work out the impact of leaving the EU on our public services, you can’t just look at our net contribution. You also need to consider the effect that leaving would have on the size of our economy, and hence the tax revenue the government can generate.

Seven highly respected independent economic organisations have tried to work this out (8). And all seven of them have reached the same conclusion: that the economic damage caused by Brexit would more than offset the saving from our EU contribution.

The best estimate suggests that the government would have between £20bn and £40bn less to spend on public services than if we remained in the EU (9). So our public services wouldn't be better if we left the EU - they would be much worse.

So if we left the EU to ‘take control of immigration’, and then reduced it as discussed above, we’d still have all the same problems we have today – the housing crisis, an overstretched NHS, oversubscribed schools, heavy traffic, etc.

But we’d also have two even more serious problems to add to the list: a recession and the unknown consequences of destabilising the very institution which has secured peace in Europe for the last 70 years.

People are sceptical of economists’ forecasts. But you don’t even need to estimate many of the economic problems that will arise from Brexit – you can see them already in the currency markets.

The pound suffered its biggest one day fall in seven years when Boris and other MPs joined the leave campaign (10). You can watch the impact of movements in the referendum opinion polls in the EUR/GBP exchange rate. A major bank recently warned that Brexit could wipe 20% off the value of the pound through devaluation (11).

Devaluation sounds like a dry and abstract concept. So let me explain what that means:

20% of your life savings wiped out overnight.

The numbers in your bank account will be the same, but what you can buy with it will be 20% less, since most things we buy these days come from overseas.

Only the other day the Financial Times reported that hedge funds are planning to run their own private exit polls on referendum day to speculate on the currency markets ahead of the official result (12).

Just as during the ERM crisis of 1992, the vultures are circling, waiting to feast on our self-inflicted wounds.

And here’s another very clear threat: to our jobs. Only last Friday, Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan, warned his staff in Bournemouth that one, two or even four thousand of them would be made redundant if we leave the EU (13). Imagine how his staff are feeling today. And as a manager, let me tell you: that’s not the kind of thing you tell your employees unless you’re deadly serious.

Even leading Leave campaigner Michael Gove admitted just a few days ago that jobs are at risk if we leave the EU (14). Multimillionaire UKIP donor Arron Banks described this economic damage as ‘a price worth paying’ (15).

Arron Banks, Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage might be rich enough to gamble their jobs on Brexit - but are you?

It is quite possible that some of your friends and family will lose their jobs as a direct result of Britain leaving the EU. Do you want to be responsible for that?

We took an evidence-based look at the immigration and EU issue above. But the Leave campaign and Eurosceptic press (Express, Sun and Mail in particular) choose to paint a very different picture. A picture which blows these statistics out of all proportion. 'Strangers in Our Own Country' 'Our borders are out of control!'. You know the stuff I mean. Pictures which invite us to eye our friends and neighbours with suspicion and even hostility. Editorial which pins the blame for every problem from housing to wages to traffic to NHS waiting times on immigrants.

And it's not even because they don't know any better. The leaders of the Leave campaign and the political editors of those newspapers are clever, well-educated people. They know the facts I set out above just as well as I do.

Yet instead of presenting a balanced view, they choose to deliberately whip up fear and suspicion of immigrants for their own political purposes.

Shame on them.

Why? Because appealing to people's basest prejudices sells newspapers and gathers votes. Just ask Donald Trump.

And what greater contrast could there be between the divisive rhetoric of the leave campaign and the noble vision of the EU's founding fathers.

Men who, amid the ashes of World War Two, set their national differences aside and dared - not just to dream but to build - a better Europe for us all.

A Europe in which war was “not only unthinkable … but materially impossible” (16).

Here’s Winston Churchill addressing the Congress of Europe in 1948:

“A high and a solemn responsibility rests upon us here ... If we allow ourselves to be rent and disordered by pettiness and small disputes, if we fail in clarity of view or courage in action, a priceless occasion may be cast away for ever. But if we all pull together and pool the luck and the comradeship - and we shall need all the comradeship and not a little luck … then all the little children who are now growing up in this tormented world may find themselves not the victors nor the vanquished in the fleeting triumphs of one country over another in the bloody turmoil of … war, but the heirs of all the treasures of the past and the masters of all the science, the abundance and the glories of the future.”

And - against all the odds - we did it.

We pooled the luck and the comradeship and achieved Churchill’s vision.

Those “little children” are now retired – the first generation in a thousand years to grow up without the horror of war in Europe.

Instead of building weapons, our scientists work together to solve the greatest problems of our age.

We enjoy a standard of living unimaginable to people in 1948.

All the cities, art, history, people, food and culture of this wonderful continent are open to us whenever we want to visit, to live or to work.

Hundreds of millions of European people who until only a few decades ago were ruled by dictators or communists now enjoy democracy, human rights, the rule of law and the abundance of the free market.

I think that’s worth 36 pence a day.

And yet here we stand, about to turn our backs on this great project, thanks to cynical newspaper owners and barefaced lies from the Leave campaign.

Forget what the Sun says.

Forget what’s good for Boris’ and Farage’s careers.

Listen to every current and former British Prime Minister (17). Every other major UK political party leader (18). To Barack Obama, to Hillary Clinton, to Angela Merkel and a host of other world leaders (19). To Stephen Hawking and 83% of scientists (20). To 40 religious leaders (21). To 300 leading historians (22). To the Trades Union Congress and our six largest trades unions (23). To 88% of economists (24). To the National Farmers Union (25). To the Chief Executive of NHS England (26), to the Royal College of Midwives (27) To British businesses of all sizes (28).

For there is an overwhelming consensus among experts of all kinds that Britain is stronger in Europe.

And what does the Leave campaign say to this?

“I think people in this country have had enough of experts” (Michael Gove, Friday 3rd June)

What an extraordinary response.

If you were sick, you’d want to see a doctor. If you had a plane to fly, you’d want a pilot. So when we have the most important political, economic and foreign policy decision of our lifetime to make I think we should listen to the people who are in the best position to evaluate what to do. And they’re all telling us the same thing – we’re much better off in Europe.

It might not be what Michael Gove wants to hear. But it sounds like the right answer to me.

So when you’re in the polling station on Thursday 23rd - with that stubby little pencil in your hand –Vote Remain.

Not in fear, but with pride – about what we, the people of Europe, have achieved together.

Not in ignorance, but with science firmly on our side.

And not alone, but with the greatest statesmen of the past three generations urging us on.

And then in years to come, when your children ask you how you voted in the referendum of 2016, you can look them in the eye and tell them you were on the right side of history.

Thank you for reading

(1) https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

(2) https://www.ons.gov.uk/…/populationandm…/populationestimates

(3) http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-…/…

(4) http://www.economist.com/…/21631076-rather-lot-according-ne…

(5) http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/ea019.pdf

(6) https://fullfact.org/euro…/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

(7) http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngla…/thenhs/about/Pages/overview.aspx

(8) http://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/comms/r116.pdf

(9) http://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/comms/r116.pdf

(10) https://next.ft.com/co…/7fa04d70-d911-11e5-a72f-1e7744c66818

(11) https://www.theguardian.com/…/brexit-could-wipe-20-percent-…

(12) https://next.ft.com/co…/7e26d896-241c-11e6-9d4d-c11776a5124d

(13) BBC Radio 4, 3rd June 2016; see also http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36450460

(14) http://www.thetimes.co.uk/…/i-can-t-guarantee-everyone-will…

(15) https://www.politicshome.com/…/arron-banks-%C2%A34300-loss-…

(16) http://www.robert-schuman.eu/en/declaration-of-9-may-1950

(17) David Cameron http://www.theguardian.com/…/david-cameron-launches-tory-ca… ; Gordon Brown http://www.theguardian.com/…/inspiring-view-britishness-def…; Tony Blair http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36408239; John Major http://www.telegraph.co.uk/…/John-Major-Voting-to-leave-wil…

(18) Jeremy Corbyn (Labour) http://labourlist.org/…/europe-needs-to-change-but-i-am-vo…/ Tim Farron (Lib Dem) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/…/Britain-impoverished-backwater… Caroline Lucas (Green) http://europe.newsweek.com/caroline-lucas-brexit-european-r… Nicola Sturgeon (SNP) http://www.thesun.co.uk/…/Nicola-Sturgeon-vows-to-back-argu…

(19) Barack Obama http://www.telegraph.co.uk/…/as-your-friend-let-me-tell-you… ; Hillary Clinton http://www.theguardian.com/…/hillary-clinton-britain-should… Angela Merkel http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36436726; Shinzo Abe http://www.telegraph.co.uk/…/japanese-prime-minister-shinz…/

(20) https://www.theguardian.com/…/stephen-hawking-donald-trump-… ; http://www.nature.com/…/scientists-say-no-to-uk-exit-from-e…

(21) http://www.theguardian.com/…/religious-leaders-oppose-brexit

(22) http://www.theguardian.com/…/vote-to-leave-eu-will-condemn-…

(23) http://uk.reuters.com/ar…/uk-britain-eu-unions-idUKKCN0V517D

(24) http://www.itv.com/…/almost-nine-in-10-economists-believe-…/

(25) http://www.theguardian.com/…/british-farmers-uk-eu-nfu-brex…

(26) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36353145

(27) https://www.rcm.org.uk/…/royal-college-of-midwives-supports…

(28) http://www.independent.co.uk/…/brexit-eu-referendum-what-wi…

[newjez]

It was still brilliant peach, even on a second reading. I've shared it, but I'm afraid most leave people I know won't be bothered reading it. It's not what they want to hear. Best thing you can do now is put all your assets in USD, because I fear we are coming out.

[amibovered]

Bye-bye EU

[h=1]Massive swing to Brexit[/h]

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-brexit-leave-campaign-10-point-lead-remain-boris-johnson-nigel-farage-david-a7075131.html

[Gbye grey sky]

It was still brilliant peach, even on a second reading. I've shared it, but I'm afraid most leave people I know won't be bothered reading it. It's not what they want to hear. Best thing you can do now is put all your assets in USD, because I fear we are coming out.

 

That's what all the smart money will be doing for sure. Fasten your seat belts and assume the crash position for 23 June.

[newjez]

Bye-bye EU

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-brexit-leave-campaign-10-point-lead-remain-boris-johnson-nigel-farage-david-a7075131.html

 

 

There does seem to be a state of panic in the stay campaign. The major Blair northern Ireland thing was disgraceful.

[newjez]

Okay. I guess the next best question is how best to profit from brexit.

 

My pension is in cash. I would put it in USD or gold if I could but I don't have that luxury.

 

Sadly, I can't take much more shelter than that.

[bunbury61]

There does seem to be a state of panic in the stay campaign. The major Blair northern Ireland thing was disgraceful.

 

You are an articulate chap nj .

Go onto youtube and watch some of the brexit material .

Especially the one with David noakes ..if a crumb of his information is true ,it is truly frightening .

Thefull weight of the e.u banking system will be waged against us when we leave .

 

The stuff going on at the top ,above govts is an eye opener .

 

The bilderbergers ...the Rothchilds and global banking ...

 

Time to leave

[Rallyman]

Was just reading about the kinnocks and what they have earned out of the Eu , everything he supposedly stood against when leader of the Labour Party , it's this that gets my back and times it by the other 750 no thanks out for me.

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3636143/Greediest-snouts-EU-trough-Not-sure-vote-Read-stinking-wealth-hypocrisy-Brussels-fat-cats-Kinnocks-help-decide.html

[VERYSTORMY]

The big economic shocks on the way are certainly coming, but nothing to do with Brexit.

 

Germany's banks were found this week to be in dire straights and bordering on collapse. The bond markets are in very bad ways.

[bunbury61]

The big economic shocks on the way are certainly coming, but nothing to do with Brexit.

 

Germany's banks were found this week to be in dire straights and bordering on collapse. The bond markets are in very bad ways.

 

An e.u banking " black hole " of £715 BILLION ....if Germany is in the mire ...god help them all ....TIME TO LEAVE

[bunbury61]

That's what all the smart money will be doing for sure. Fasten your seat belts and assume the crash position for 23 June.

 

BRING IT ON .....away from the global conglomerates ...the unelected bureaucrats ......we may crash ,but Britain will dust itself down and be back at the top table in good time .

[BacktoDemocracy]

You are an articulate chap nj .

Go onto youtube and watch some of the brexit material .

Especially the one with David noakes ..if a crumb of his information is true ,it is truly frightening .

Thefull weight of the e.u banking system will be waged against us when we leave .

 

The stuff going on at the top ,above govts is an eye opener .

 

The bilderbergers ...the Rothchilds and global banking ...

 

Time to leave

The Rothchild's are British based financiers, who on more than one occasion have held the British govt to ransom but even the Rothchild's are small fry, Google the Koch bros if you really want PTSD.

[bunbury61]

The Rothchild's are British based financiers, who on more than one occasion have held the British govt to ransom but even the Rothchild's are small fry, Google the Koch bros if you really want PTSD.

 

And you can google bilderberg group .

[BacktoDemocracy]

And you can google bilderberg group .

 

The Bilderberger group have nothing on the Koch bros, they literally own the Republican party and dictate the policies they pursue and the legislation that is allowed to become law, such as arms control, environmental protection and alternative energy production, the sale of the most polluting energy sources on the planet.

They make the Bilderberger group look like the Girl Guides.

[BacktoDemocracy]

And you can google bilderberg group .

 

The Bilderberger group have nothing on the Koch bros, they literally own the Republican party and dictate the policies they pursue and the legislation that is allowed to become law, such as firearms control, environmental protection and alternative energy production, the sale of the most polluting energy sources on the planet.

They make the Bilderberger group look like the Girl Guides.

Edited June 11, 2016 by BacktoDemocracy

[bunbury61]

The Bilderberger group have nothing on the Koch bros, they literally own the Republican party and dictate the policies they pursue and the legislation that is allowed to become law, such as firearms control, environmental protection and alternative energy production, the sale of the most polluting energy sources on the planet.

They make the Bilderberger group look like the Girl Guides.

 

Ooooooh matron ,I will get my coat .....OUT ...OUT IN 2008 when I joined this forum ...and definitely out now ...

When the forthcoming war starts in the future ...on one side you will have Britain ,u.s.a ,Australia ,Canada and n.z versus the e.u and Russia fighting out a war in the middle east over Israel .....

 

Britain and the e.u will be on opposing sides ..

Whether that's today,tomorrow or 2030 ....

 

Its going to happen ...put your feet up

[Quinkla]

When the forthcoming war starts in the future ...on one side you will have Britain ,u.s.a ,Australia ,Canada and n.z versus the e.u and Russia fighting out a war in the middle east over Israel .....

 

Britain and the e.u will be on opposing sides ..

I knew you were a fascist but now I also think you are a loony.

[Rallyman]

A good read just shows how much of bureaucratic night mare the EU is.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/sir-james-dyson-so-if-we-leave-the-eu-no-one-will-trade-with-us/