Gbye grey sky Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Oh it's not really a fully formed opinion, more of an observation really, based admittedly upon very limited social interaction. My partner's friends, colleagues, neighbours etc all seem very positive about both Melbourne and Australia generally. That's one of the reasons why I've chosen to withdraw socially, as I felt I was being expected to express positive views about the place which I didn't actually have. In effect I felt like I was lying to people for the sake of appearances, and that's a bit self-defeating. I made a conscious decision to withdraw behind my own borders after about two years in Melbourne and it's been a huge help emotionally. Forgive me for saying but unless you totally loathe everyone and everything there (nearest and dearest excepted) you could try accentuating the positives (thinking them, not just articulating) and just not saying anything when the subject is of no interest or worse. The maxim being that unless you have something positive to contribute best stay silent. Every cloud has a silver lining surely. Of course if you are content in your self-imposed exile then stick with it but I do sense from your posts that you are not and have just adopted it as you consider it the least worse option and a coping mechanism. I am willing to bet that all these people are not as positive as you imagine them to be but positivity is relative and yours appears non-existent so naturally they are seeming upbeat to your ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I know plenty who express exactly those concerns that QSS mentioned, and aren't scared of a pom expressing such opinions. Like I said earlier, a lot of how you perceive others depends on who you hang around with. If you think everyone is blatantly materialistic and shallow for example, you're probably hanging out with the wrong people and need to get rid of them. Having no friends is better than spending time with people you can't stand! Come to think of it, you work for a NGO for the homeless, so all your colleagues are loony lefties (to use the accepted PIO parlance), surely?? Exactly this! Or even just not liking them much. I'm much more selective now, and it definitely makes for a happier life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speakeasy Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) I think it's just easier to avoid what you don't like in your own country. You understand it more intimately and feel part of the fabric. Homesickness prays on this vulnerability. You want to run home where you have the ability to sweep under the proverbial rug. Attitudes or perceived attitudes towards you by others can affect your feeling of belonging in an adopted country. Australians and British will always have this so called love hate relationship. Their histories intertwined and not fully resolved by any means (though attempts are made with sport). But that should have little to do with us as individuals choosing a place to live in the modern world. It bothered me when i had to suffer the derision by Brits who like to claim Australians are racist because of the relatively recent and highly publicised displacement and treatment of indigenous Australians (very much a colonial trangression). One woman was very emotional in the pub one night about what I should be doing to fix it.. Easier to stare down the historic wrong doings of other countries rather than look at your own bloody history I thought.. (and she was an Irish woman living in England!) Britain has done well (as many nations of empire do) at propping up the achievements of its past and ignoring the wrongdoings.. This is something Australians are caught up in as well as we are still attached to our colonial masters through the Commonwealth. Most decisions until Federation were made from Westminster. We were just the outpost shearing sheep and digging for gold (and building a nation). Ours is a history of shared British rule. Most decisions were made in light of British interests. Something which is thankfully all but a namesake now. My point is i'm sure if I had tried to discuss the Raj in a local English pub and the local transgressions which brought us Ghandi.. I would not have found a sympathetic ear. Noone wants to discuss anything which brings them a sense of guilt, shame or responsibility, and most common folk aren't too immersed in the past - except for the folk for whom homesickness is having the affect of enhancing feelings of nostalgia and making them more aware of the past. Brits and Aussies see each other as familiar but quite dissimilar... This is more due to environment than anything else. Because it is the Australian environment which began shaping our men and women from the arrival of the First Fleet... and it is the environment more than anything that you are forced to adapt to when you move here from Britain today.. It turns out people are just people. Edited October 17, 2015 by speakeasy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I know plenty who express exactly those concerns that QSS mentioned, and aren't scared of a pom expressing such opinions. Like I said earlier, a lot of how you perceive others depends on who you hang around with. If you think everyone is blatantly materialistic and shallow for example, you're probably hanging out with the wrong people and need to get rid of them. Having no friends is better than spending time with people you can't stand! Come to think of it, you work for a NGO for the homeless, so all your colleagues are loony lefties (to use the accepted PIO parlance), surely?? You're the only person that I hang around with mate, but then you changed when you installed that underwater plasma TV in your jacuzzi! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 You're the only person that I hang around with mate, but then you changed when you installed that underwater plasma TV in your jacuzzi! Install a video camera! then you would have a different view on him:wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I think it's just easier to avoid what you don't like in your own country. You understand it more intimately and feel part of the fabric. Homesickness prays on this vulnerability. You want to run home where you have the ability to sweep under the proverbial rug. Attitudes or perceived attitudes towards you by others can affect your feeling of belonging in an adopted country. Australians and British will always have this so called love hate relationship. Their histories intertwined and not fully resolved by any means (though attempts are made with sport). But that should have little to do with us as individuals choosing a place to live in the modern world. It bothered me when i had to suffer the derision by Brits who like to claim Australians are racist because of the relatively recent and highly publicised displacement and treatment of indigenous Australians (very much a colonial trangression). One woman was very emotional in the pub one night about what I should be doing to fix it.. Easier to stare down the historic wrong doings of other countries rather than look at your own bloody history I thought.. (and she was an Irish woman living in England!) Britain has done well (as many nations of empire do) at propping up the achievements of its past and ignoring the wrongdoings.. This is something Australians are caught up in as well as we are still attached to our colonial masters through the Commonwealth. Most decisions until Federation were made from Westminster. We were just the outpost shearing sheep and digging for gold (and building a nation). Ours is a history of shared British rule. Most decisions were made in light of British interests. Something which is thankfully all but a namesake now. My point is i'm sure if I had tried to discuss the Raj in a local English pub and the local transgressions which brought us Ghandi.. I would not have found a sympathetic ear. Noone wants to discuss anything which brings them a sense of guilt, shame or responsibility, and most common folk aren't too immersed in the past - except for the folk for whom homesickness is having the affect of enhancing feelings of nostalgia and making them more aware of the past. Brits and Aussies see each other as familiar but quite dissimilar... This is more due to environment than anything else. Because it is the Australian environment which began shaping our men and women from the arrival of the First Fleet... and it is the environment more than anything that you are forced to adapt to when you move here from Britain today.. It turns out people are just people. So true. People who, in a general sense, retain a longing to be amonst their own kind (so-to-speak) often forget that they had absolutely nothing in common with most of them when they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I can differentiate from the truly deserving!The OP was obviously suffering in some way,which to me,deserves empathy.I could of gone the other way and argued the toss that they were wrong or whatever,but it was their experience of the place,not mine.Even if they do blame the country rather than take the responsibility themselves,they need empathy for that too. Perhaps, but IMHO the post was not a "throw away line" penned in a moment of despair from someone who was suffering. It was clearly well thought out and scripted with maximum venom. The vent is understandable, (and perhaps forgiveable) if one is in a "dark place" and to feel as the OP does, but what isn't understandable and deserving of empathy (IMHO) is the fact that the very same vent, tars those who are not in the same dark place as the OP as being somehow moronic. IMHO the post was not a plea for understanding/empathy, nor simply a vent, but clearly an arrogant rant aimed at being totally dismissive of, and abusing towards, those who don't feel the same way as they do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Forgive me for saying but unless you totally loathe everyone and everything there (nearest and dearest excepted) you could try accentuating the positives (thinking them, not just articulating) and just not saying anything when the subject is of no interest or worse. The maxim being that unless you have something positive to contribute best stay silent. Every cloud has a silver lining surely. Of course if you are content in your self-imposed exile then stick with it but I do sense from your posts that you are not and have just adopted it as you consider it the least worse option and a coping mechanism. I am willing to bet that all these people are not as positive as you imagine them to be but positivity is relative and yours appears non-existent so naturally they are seeming upbeat to your ears. That's good advice, and one of the benefits of withdrawing socially has been to allow me to refocus my energies upon the things that I do enjoy about my life - time spent with my family, increased contact with family and friends back home and exploring the curry houses of Geelong with Harpodom. :smile: Of course, the exile yearns for home. That's an ever-present for me, but in the absence of being able to do that (i.e., go home) then this represents making the best of the hand that I've been dealt. It's not a strategy that I would recommend for everyone who's in a similar situation, but it's one which has yielded benefits for me and at least kept me out of the Psych Ward! :smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speakeasy Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) I guess it's evolution. Throughout British history, one did better if they were well-bred, well spoken and from a distinguished family... Formal Education a must. And for the very rich families of the Enlightenment - quoting poetry and strumming a Stradivarius was an important use of ones' time. The mucky lower classes were good for all the work. Social divisions very much a legacy of the Fuedal system. Perhaps this bred a finer appreciation of art?? In Australia you did better if you could prospect for resources, were handy on the land, could accommodate yourself in the down times, could move into the political class... Informal Education a must. For the influential families of the day - Pioneering and advancing the colonies was what consumed most peoples' time. Everyone had to muck in.. there were no pre-existing class divisions to tap into and so unfortunately the idigenous man was largely exploited for toil. Perhaps this developed a greater appreciation for material things?? In each case the way you spoke and conveyed yourself was a huge influence in your advancement in each (very different) society, much to the point where the changes in vocabulary almost heralded two distinct languages.. A further point of derision perhaps? A display of how we have grown apart from one another? Jealousy about our differences perhaps? It all matters little as in the past one hundred years both countries have experienced the same global shifts and are linked into the global commons in the same way. The parlance of the day is now more influenced by the internet, geo-politics and mass media. And over-arching all of that.. Political correctness. Parochialisms are now being "left for dead". We'll have to be parochial on the world wide web instead. Edited October 17, 2015 by speakeasy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JockinTas Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 TBH, in 20 yrs here, and watching the growth of North Lakes, I have never heard one pom affect an autralian accent (except when telling a joke about aussies) or heard of north lakes referred to as "little britain". It seems (to me) that PIO gives birth to it's own myths. I have heard it a few times. One lass I worked with was from Norfolk - had been here less than a year and had a strange kind of north shore (Sydney) accent - another girl was from Derbyshire and had lived here a couple of years and sounded like she was born and bred in Australia. Also people I've met socially and thought were Australian - turns out they were from the UK. The native accent always slipped out after a couple of beers though - have to say it was usually females. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 That's good advice, and one of the benefits of withdrawing socially has been to allow me to refocus my energies upon the things that I do enjoy about my life - time spent with my family, increased contact with family and friends back home and exploring the curry houses of Geelong with Harpodom. :smile: I see what you did there. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I have heard it a few times. One lass I worked with was from Norfolk - had been here less than a year and had a strange kind of north shore (Sydney) accent - another girl was from Derbyshire and had lived here a couple of years and sounded like she was born and bred in Australia. Also people I've met socially and thought were Australian - turns out they were from the UK. The native accent always slipped out after a couple of beers though - have to say it was usually females. Amazing what slips out after a couple of beers:wink: my kind of girls though .......beer drinkers, those were the days you could go t' pub wi' tha lass and get a pint and half of bitter, she has one to your two, push the boat out now and again and she could have a Vodka and black (obviously we men would get, nay expected to get, rewarded for that. Now though? girls don't worry about things slipping out, as generally already out, and drink? gee I have to google up what the hell they want how many ciders can there be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petals Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 The op Keith and Linda has hit the nail on the head for me, why didn't we set up that import business of cultural icons, a few stone cottages, a castle or two, that is what is missing in the outback. We need to put more country lanes in with hedgerows. We need to be cleaner and not wear singlet and shorts on very hot days when working in the bush. We must learn to speak proper. For goodness sake why do people have such a high opinion of their opinions. There is a saying you cannot judge a book by the cover and this is very very true in Australia. A lot of people just do not need or want the finer or supposed finer things in life. Myself I hate going to a flash restaurant I much prefer pub grub. Oh gosh I should change my habits I have standards to keep being an English lady. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 My partner's friends, colleagues, neighbours etc all seem very positive about both Melbourne and Australia generally. That's one of the reasons why I've chosen to withdraw socially, as I felt I was being expected to express positive views about the place which I didn't actually have. In effect I felt like I was lying to people for the sake of appearances, and that's a bit self-defeating. I made a conscious decision to withdraw behind my own borders after about two years in Melbourne and it's been a huge help emotionally. It seems strange to me that your only choice is either to socialise with your PARTNER'S friends, or not at all. You mentioned that you used to have some active hobbies, which would give you opportunities to interact with other people outside your oh's circle and make your own friends - in the British expat community if that's what you prefer. If I was your oh I'd be sick with worry about you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I have heard it a few times. One lass I worked with was from Norfolk - had been here less than a year and had a strange kind of north shore (Sydney) accent - another girl was from Derbyshire and had lived here a couple of years and sounded like she was born and bred in Australia. Also people I've met socially and thought were Australian - turns out they were from the UK. The native accent always slipped out after a couple of beers though - have to say it was usually females. But not every Pom with an Aussie accent does it deliberately. As Gbye Grey Sky mentioned, some people are natural mimics. I'm like that and so are my sisters - when we spend a lot of time with people, we start talking like them. It's a great advantage when you're learning foreign languages because you "get" the accent easily, but it can be embarrassing sometimes if you pick up a local accent too quickly, because people think you're taking the mickey! Everywhere I go here in So'ton, people know straight away that I'm an Aussie, whereas in Australia people knew I wasn't an Aussie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungfustu Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Perhaps, but IMHO the post was not a "throw away line" penned in a moment of despair from someone who was suffering. It was clearly well thought out and scripted with maximum venom. The vent is understandable, (and perhaps forgiveable) if one is in a "dark place" and to feel as the OP does, but what isn't understandable and deserving of empathy (IMHO) is the fact that the very same vent, tars those who are not in the same dark place as the OP as being somehow moronic. IMHO the post was not a plea for understanding/empathy, nor simply a vent, but clearly an arrogant rant aimed at being totally dismissive of, and abusing towards, those who don't feel the same way as they do I agree.....clever b'strd.....wish my brain was as articulated as the OP's and I had the ability to put down my thoughts and opinions with the same affect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slean Wolfhead Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 As a long time reader, first time poster I decided I should finally contribute my thoughts on why I'm leaving. Brace yourself if you have willingly assimilated into Aus life :wacko:.My situation: Professional, married (not aussie) with kid, live in Sydney, seen most of Aus due to job. Been here 10 years and will be leaving within the next 12 months. I find the thought of staying here forever very depressing and for some time I've felt like I'm isolated and missing out on real life somewhere else in the real world and that every concept/service/product/event/etc is just a lousy copy of something out of UK/Europe/America i.e. there is no original cutting edge thinking/innovation in Aus. Being from UK, I find the underlying problem with Australia is that it feels like an incomplete country and lacking in soul - scratch beneath the glossy plastic surface of their immigration brochure and there is nothing further to see. Incomplete in that the lack of history, constant dumbing down of everything and nannying by government creates a shallow existence for the locals who seem to do as they're told, never question, think little and only focus on material new stuff. This in turn creates a majority of individuals that, to me, are like apathetic cardboard cut outs of real people - they lack a fully developed personality and their goals are very simplistic and materialistic. If you have personality here, you will intimidate a lot of locals during conversation (if you can actually get conversation momentum going) - quite easy to spot as their eyes glaze over. They think personality & character means adopting some over animated wooden caricature of the white anglo nation’s expectations of, for example, a footballer, or slapstick comedian, shock jock, tough guy, news reporter, intellectual and so on i.e. lots of people with the same wooden personality. You only need to look at the TV personalities to confirm it – they’re second rate. People who love Australia are usually a combination of thick skinned, materialistic, lack good taste, don’t appreciate culture/the arts/history (indigenous history is not aussie)/architecture or have come from a lower socio economic background/place in their home country which they resent/blame (chip on shoulder type - say home country has "gone to the dogs" , etc). The latter are the aussies' favourite immigrant because they don't challenge them and actually (and I think it really demonstrates a weak mind) try to adopt the aussie accent/swagger. The parochialism, blind nationalism and ignorant “aus is best” mentality is also intolerable as is the nanny state approach to everything which the locals just seem to accept. Time to start planning a well deserved escape (and no, I won't let the door hit me on the way out for all you hilarious types). The best way I've heard a friend describe Australia is thus: "average people do very well in Australia. Above average people get very frustrated because the pool isn't deep enough for them to swim in, and paddling just isn't going to stimulate you for long". I don't agree with all of that, but I can understand the sentiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 The best way I've heard a friend describe Australia is thus: "average people do very well in Australia. Above average people get very frustrated because the pool isn't deep enough for them to swim in, and paddling just isn't going to stimulate you for long".I don't agree with all of that, but I can understand the sentiment. Well I suppose being " Average " is a step up from "Thick skinned, materialistic, tasteless and from the lower class!" :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Class wars are still going strong then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 On PIO if not in the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Well I suppose being " Average " is a step up from "Thick skinned, materialistic, tasteless and from the lower class!" :laugh: We know our place. Happy to fit the stereotype if that suits. Stuff em. We're the ones having a nice life who cares who looks down on us. Might sip a Chardonnay in my Ivory tower in a minute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JockinTas Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) We know our place. Happy to fit the stereotype if that suits. Stuff em. We're the ones having a nice life who cares who looks down on us. Might sip a Chardonnay in my Ivory tower in a minute :laugh: Yes, stuff 'em! Edited October 17, 2015 by JockinTas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Changed my mind, opened a nice NZ Sauv Blanc. I'm enjoying the NZ wines just lately. I bought a half price cask for my Stepmum because she insists on ruining wine by adding lemonade to it...told her she can't have any of my good stuff if she's going to do that...I asked the guy in the bottlo if it was rubbish (as it was so cheap) he said it was too expensive for those who usually go for cask wine..lol...so goes out of date as it doesn't sell.....quite a good drop he said. Stepmum won't care once there's some R Whites in it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I bought a half price cask for my Stepmum because she insists on ruining wine by adding lemonade to it. Ack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 OMG I caught myself today calling my garage a garaage. The problem is that I am a natural mimic. I am going to have to make an effort to keep my English accent I feel. With all due respect you will only lose your accent if you actively intend to lose It ....I know people who have been in oz for 40 years and the pommie accent is still there .....a bit clipped but still prominent . I met an old boy in w.a when I was there ...he was helping a bloke fix our roof . He couldn't believe that I knew he was a Londoner ,as he lft the u.k when he was 12 ...but I could here it in his accent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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