Decided to escape

[amibovered]

Do you wanna see my puppy?

 

I'm not falling for that one again!!!

 

 

 

go on then.

[Harpodom]

I'm not falling for that one again!!!

 

 

 

go on then.

 

OK, just hop in the van :wink:

[speakeasy]

Ironic that the original poster whinged about there being no conversation about culture or history in Australia.. and when I try to raise conversation about those very topics on this forum - my posts get deleted.

 

This will be my last post on this forum. For the OP, i'm glad Australia attracts immigrants from other countries who are actually going somewhere and not just people who come here expecting their "comfort". You'll have to tough it out if you want to live here... and if not, see you later. The people who do well here are not soft - you're right. But they do have plenty of soul and are not bombastic about their interests.

 

You'll do well to remember that if you decide to stay here.. which I imagine you will. Materialistic? I bet you are.

 

I'm heading to Yanks-in-oz for a breath of fresh air.

[Harpodom]

Ironic that the original poster whinged about there being no conversation about culture or history in Australia.. and when I try to raise conversation about those very topics on this forum - my posts get deleted.

 

This will be my last post on this forum. For the OP, i'm glad Australia attracts immigrants from other countries who are actually going somewhere and not just people who come here expecting their "comfort". You'll have to tough it out if you want to live here... and if not, see you later. The people who do well here are not soft - you're right. But they do have plenty of soul and are not bombastic about their interests.

 

You'll do well to remember that if you decide to stay here.. which I imagine you will. Materialistic? I bet you are.

 

I'm heading to Yanks-in-oz for a breath of fresh air.

 

What a load of generalising waffle

[JockinTas]

I was in a hospital shop being served by an old lady. I asked what part of Scotland she was from and she nearly had a heart attack. She said she'd been here since 1955 and nobody has mentioned it for years, she thought she'd lost the accent completely.

 

 

:laugh: I never really think about what I sound like but when I was working and on the phone to students/exam supervisors/exam venues they always straight away knew it was me and not a couple of my co-workers. It was my Scottish accent that gave me away. When I'm back in Scotland and yakking to my friends I always revert to the local dialect as if I've never been away.

[akiralx]

Oh it's not really a fully formed opinion, more of an observation really, based admittedly upon very limited social interaction. My partner's friends, colleagues, neighbours etc all seem very positive about both Melbourne and Australia generally. That's one of the reasons why I've chosen to withdraw socially, as I felt I was being expected to express positive views about the place which I didn't actually have. In effect I felt like I was lying to people for the sake of appearances, and that's a bit self-defeating. I made a conscious decision to withdraw behind my own borders after about two years in Melbourne and it's been a huge help emotionally.

 

This sounds exactly like me, to be honest. My interests are fairly narrow and I just occupy myself with them, I am quite happy with the company of family, UK friends, and myself. I enjoy some aspects of the country but I am unable to embrace it fully.

[BacktoDemocracy]

Well it sounds like there are a number of people, not just the poster, who have difficulties with living in Oz, and the difficulties are created by many of the issues which the poster complained about, admittedly the poster was less than subtle but I think a lot of people who have thought about why they feel at odds with the country would have to admit there are grains of truth in a lot of what he says.

Everybody is familiar with the tall poppy syndrome, and a lot of his other comments are tied back to the Oz immigration drives dating back to the early 1900's which has concentrated on recruiting tradespeople and technocrats and even when they do have to allow high level people like doctors and university people to jump the fence, because they're desperate for them, it is made clear to them not to get above themselves and bring any of those fancy ideas with them and start challenging the established norms.

The hospital where my wife worked in Brisbane did at one stage in the past recruit a heart surgeon from Addenbrokes and proceeded to make his life hell when he showed them new techniques and procedures and kept it up until he went back to Addenbrokes, so the problems do exist and are more widespread than admitted.

Admittedly the poster could have been more subtle but I don't think it was particularly about elitism/class, I think it was a reaction to the inward looking nature of Oz society and the parochialism and monochromism in so many parts of it and how after a time this starts to feel like a straight jacket.

I felt like that after 8 years and that and the repetitive political scandals which never led to action and the inept handling of the economy turned me from an Oz enthusiast into a enthusiast for Britain with all its class ridden society and its public school a*ses.

Thank God for the Guardian, Jeremy Corbyn and a pint of bitter

Edited October 20, 2015 by BacktoDemocracy

[deryans]

Well it sounds like there are a number of people, not just the poster, who have difficulties with living in Oz, and the difficulties are created by many of the issues which the poster complained about, admittedly the poster was less than subtle but I think a lot of people who have thought about why they feel at odds with the country would have to admit there are grains of truth in a lot of what he says.

Everybody is familiar with the tall poppy syndrome, and a lot of his other comments are tied back to the Oz immigration drives dating back to the early 1900's which has concentrated on recruiting tradespeople and technocrats and even when they do have to allow high level people like doctors and university people to jump the fence, because they're desperate for them, it is made clear to them not to get above themselves and bring any of those fancy ideas with them and start challenging the established norms.

The hospital where my wife worked in Brisbane did at one stage in the past recruit a heart surgeon from Addenbrokes and proceeded to make his life hell when he showed them new techniques and procedures and kept it up until he went back to Addenbrokes, so the problems do exist and are more widespread than admitted.

Admittedly the poster could have been more subtle but I don't think it was particularly about elitism/class, I think it was a reaction to the inward looking nature of Oz society and its monochromism in so many parts of it and how after a time this starts to feel like a straight jacket.

I felt like that after 8 years and that and the repetitive political scandals which never led to action and the inept handling of the economy turned me from an Oz enthusiast into a enthusiast for Britain with all its class ridden society and its public school a*ses.

Thank God for the Guardian and a pint of bitter

 

We left South Australia for that very reason, State & Local Government croynism, corruption, Incompetence, the myopic nepotism and almost criminal incompetence across the public sector and indeed in the very small private sector, inability to take risks, show any leadership, make decisions based on integrity, the chronic inability to admit or learn from mistakes, or learn and have good regard and obligation/humility for others or guide and be professional and charitable in your work, these attributes are what makes society built on integrity, meritocracy flourish, sure the negative aspects I've referred to above exist everywhere, but nowhere have I seen such a perfect storm of concentrated dysfunction as in Adelaide and SA.

 

We moved back to the UK because Adelaide or rather the society in Adelaide wasunsuitable for our family's needs, lack of opportunity, mypoic 2nd or indeed 3rd rater's in positions of influence (i.e. mates of mates), very poor educational prognosis for our aspergers boy (who is now thriving and has gone from strength to strength with a system that is actually competent, east sussex/kent), our other children are also fitting in very well and thriving.

 

It takes quite some time for a place such as Adelaide to become this dysfunctional, be advised: it may take a similar time for it to recover.

[JockinTas]

We left South Australia for that very reason, State & Local Government croynism, corruption, Incompetence, the myopic nepotism and almost criminal incompetence across the public sector and indeed in the very small private sector, inability to take risks, show any leadership, make decisions based on integrity, the chronic inability to admit or learn from mistakes, or learn and have good regard and obligation/humility for others or guide and be professional and charitable in your work, these attributes are what makes society built on integrity, meritocracy flourish, sure the negative aspects I've referred to above exist everywhere, but nowhere have I seen such a perfect storm of concentrated dysfunction as in Adelaide and SA.

 

We moved back to the UK because Adelaide or rather the society in Adelaide wasunsuitable for our family's needs, lack of opportunity, mypoic 2nd or indeed 3rd rater's in positions of influence (i.e. mates of mates), very poor educational prognosis for our aspergers boy (who is now thriving and has gone from strength to strength with a system that is actually competent, east sussex/kent), our other children are also fitting in very well and thriving.

 

It takes quite some time for a place such as Adelaide to become this dysfunctional, be advised: it may take a similar time for it to recover.

 

Yikes! I've only passed through Adelaide. Had no idea things were so bad. One of the few Australian pollies I can tolerate is Nick Xenophon, an independent senator for SA.

[Harpodom]

Whilst I am sceptical about dismissing Australians for their 'croynism, corruption, Incompetence, myopic nepotism, criminal incompetence, etc', I think there is a grain of truth to this description with regard to politics and the media.

 

Earlier I said that Australia's (commercial) media is a stain on this grate country. I would extend that to the 'quality' of its politics and politicians.

 

Indeed, when these two very important parts of Australian society are so unashamedly in bed with each other, and when both are so willfully dysfunctional, you do wonder how insidious and toxic both influences are on society as a whole.

 

 

We left South Australia for that very reason, State & Local Government croynism, corruption, Incompetence, the myopic nepotism and almost criminal incompetence across the public sector and indeed in the very small private sector, inability to take risks, show any leadership, make decisions based on integrity, the chronic inability to admit or learn from mistakes, or learn and have good regard and obligation/humility for others or guide and be professional and charitable in your work, these attributes are what makes society built on integrity, meritocracy flourish, sure the negative aspects I've referred to above exist everywhere, but nowhere have I seen such a perfect storm of concentrated dysfunction as in Adelaide and SA.

 

We moved back to the UK because Adelaide or rather the society in Adelaide wasunsuitable for our family's needs, lack of opportunity, mypoic 2nd or indeed 3rd rater's in positions of influence (i.e. mates of mates), very poor educational prognosis for our aspergers boy (who is now thriving and has gone from strength to strength with a system that is actually competent, east sussex/kent), our other children are also fitting in very well and thriving.

 

It takes quite some time for a place such as Adelaide to become this dysfunctional, be advised: it may take a similar time for it to recover.

[Que Sera Sera]

Yikes! I've only passed through Adelaide. Had no idea things were so bad. One of the few Australian pollies I can tolerate is Nick Xenophon, an independent senator for SA.

Don't worry, they've moved back to the UK and as we know , UK politicians are not corrupt in any way so alls good.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Que Sera, Sera

[JockinTas]

Don't worry, they've moved bake to the UK and as we know , UK politicians are not corrupt in any way so alls good.

 

:wink:

[deryans]

Whilst I am sceptical about dismissing Australians for their 'croynism, corruption, Incompetence, myopic nepotism, criminal incompetence, etc', I think there is a grain of truth to this description with regard to politics and the media.

 

Earlier I said that Australia's (commercial) media is a stain on this grate country. I would extend that to the 'quality' of its politics and politicians.

 

Indeed, when these two very important parts of Australian society are so unashamedly in bed with each other, and when both are so willfully dysfunctional, you do wonder how insidious and toxic both influences are on society as a whole.

 

 

Good god, certainly not dismissing Australians, my comments are directed squarely at the feet of those in political appointed roles and government in Adelaide,NSW and elsewhere, I've seen beautiful young confident aussies (and poms) crushed and disenchanted by the nepotism and croynism by mates of mates, only to either leave or put up with being led by 2nd raters. There goes their dreams and with it the motivation.

 

When that happens on a large scale, it has a phenomenal impact, and don't tell me it's not manifesting itself in adelaide.

 

Ain't gonna happen with my mob.

[BacktoDemocracy]

We left South Australia for that very reason, State & Local Government croynism, corruption, Incompetence, the myopic nepotism and almost criminal incompetence across the public sector and indeed in the very small private sector, inability to take risks, show any leadership, make decisions based on integrity, the chronic inability to admit or learn from mistakes, or learn and have good regard and obligation/humility for others or guide and be professional and charitable in your work, these attributes are what makes society built on integrity, meritocracy flourish, sure the negative aspects I've referred to above exist everywhere, but nowhere have I seen such a perfect storm of concentrated dysfunction as in Adelaide and SA.

 

We moved back to the UK because Adelaide or rather the society in Adelaide wasunsuitable for our family's needs, lack of opportunity, mypoic 2nd or indeed 3rd rater's in positions of influence (i.e. mates of mates), very poor educational prognosis for our aspergers boy (who is now thriving and has gone from strength to strength with a system that is actually competent, east sussex/kent), our other children are also fitting in very well and thriving.

 

It takes quite some time for a place such as Adelaide to become this dysfunctional, be advised: it may take a similar time for it to recover.

It won't recover because like in Qnsland and the joe bjelke peterson era, there was a clean up but then all the people involved slithered away into their holes and then 20 years later, or less, they all started to pop back up again with all their same tricks and mates.

Edited October 20, 2015 by BacktoDemocracy

[BacktoDemocracy]

Don't worry, they've moved back to the UK and as we know , UK politicians are not corrupt in any way so alls good.

No one is saying that uk pollies are whiter than white but they are held accountable more and know that they are unlikely to walk away scott free if they do indulge in fraud and misrepresentation and nepotism, and the newspapers do make a difference to what they get away with.

[deryans]

It won't recover because like in Qnsland and the joe bjelke peterson era, there was a clean up but then all the people involved slithered away into their holes and then 20 years later, or less, they all started to pop back up again with all their same tricks and mates.

 

absolutely agree, the appointment as Carmody as the Chief Justice QLD has bannana republic written all over it, not to mention the Attorney General Buffon Brandis..... all class.......

[grizzly111]

I can vouch for the nepotism and cronyism in Aussie society. It's sad but true. I lost a very well remunerated job due to both a case of nepotism and tall poppy syndrome.

 

Interestingly enough, shortly after I first came to Australia I was specially warned about this Tall Poppy Syndrome by a family member who actually sat me down and had a discussion with me as he thought I was a high achiever and would in later life be prone to this. He even gave me a newspaper article about it. I had no experience of what was being said and immediately dismissed it. Rubbish! Gave it no further thought. I was enjoying Oz. I heard it being mentioned here and there over the years so one day decided to look up what it actually meant to gain a fuller understanding. It was then I realised that I had experienced this without even knowing the term for it. Unbelievable - he was right. Fast forward a few years and suddenly this 'shizz started getting real!' Lost a job I had for years over it. I won't go into it as it went further and was a stressful time but I ended up winning some compensation; however I will say what has been said above is quite true. What Deryans above said is absolutely my experience! Aussies feel very threatened by those better than them, especially when they are poms I find. However if you find the right circle then you will get the respect you deserve. The trouble is finding those opportunities in Oz....

[bristolman]

Don't worry, they've moved back to the UK and as we know , UK politicians are not corrupt in any way so alls good.

 

What an odd thing to say.

[flag of convenience]

I can vouch for the nepotism and cronyism in Aussie society. It's sad but true. I lost a very well remunerated job due to both a case of nepotism and tall poppy syndrome.

 

Interestingly enough, shortly after I first came to Australia I was specially warned about this Tall Poppy Syndrome by a family member who actually sat me down and had a discussion with me as he thought I was a high achiever and would in later life be prone to this. He even gave me a newspaper article about it. I had no experience of what was being said and immediately dismissed it. Rubbish! Gave it no further thought. I was enjoying Oz. I heard it being mentioned here and there over the years so one day decided to look up what it actually meant to gain a fuller understanding. It was then I realised that I had experienced this without even knowing the term for it. Unbelievable - he was right. Fast forward a few years and suddenly this 'shizz started getting real!' Lost a job I had for years over it. I won't go into it as it went further and was a stressful time but I ended up winning some compensation; however I will say what has been said above is quite true. What Deryans above said is absolutely my experience! Aussies feel very threatened by those better than them, especially when they are poms I find. However if you find the right circle then you will get the respect you deserve. The trouble is finding those opportunities in Oz....

 

I agree in part but not confined to Poms alone. I have experienced it happen to people close to me who are Northern European, one in the banking world and the other working for an NGO. Both come from highly experienced leader role positions in their own country. Their treatment was shocking to say the very least. One of the people involved in dispensing the 'torture' was in fact an insecure Pom.

In my personal case I had a run in with a CEO, another Pom, not long in the country, who sadly lived close to me and believe me its daggers when our paths cross.

 

Just saying Poms are well versed at dispensing bad treatment as receiving it. My experience is Aussies are as well. Often poor people given roles they are not suited to be in through connections etc.

[deryans]

. Often poor people given roles they are not suited to be in through connections etc.

 

Whilst this may be avoidable in say a larger employment pool such as dense population centres in northern europe, it has a proportionally greater impact in smaller locations such as Perth and Adelaide, to some extent it can still be avoided in Sydney and larger population centres.

 

I assume you meant poor performer rather than poor as in empathy based on pathos of financial circumstances.

 

The damage that these people do to the economic, reputational and motivitational health of an organisation or city can be significant and sometimes irreversable.

 

I find it astonishing that people seem to think it's ok to say about adelaide, "its not what you know, it's who you know" , :shocked: this speaks volumes in all the wrong ways about the place.

[Freckleface]

I can vouch for the nepotism and cronyism in Aussie society. It's sad but true. I lost a very well remunerated job due to both a case of nepotism and tall poppy syndrome.

 

Interestingly enough, shortly after I first came to Australia I was specially warned about this Tall Poppy Syndrome by a family member who actually sat me down and had a discussion with me as he thought I was a high achiever and would in later life be prone to this. He even gave me a newspaper article about it. I had no experience of what was being said and immediately dismissed it. Rubbish! Gave it no further thought. I was enjoying Oz. I heard it being mentioned here and there over the years so one day decided to look up what it actually meant to gain a fuller understanding. It was then I realised that I had experienced this without even knowing the term for it. Unbelievable - he was right. Fast forward a few years and suddenly this 'shizz started getting real!' Lost a job I had for years over it. I won't go into it as it went further and was a stressful time but I ended up winning some compensation; however I will say what has been said above is quite true. What Deryans above said is absolutely my experience! Aussies feel very threatened by those better than them, especially when they are poms I find. However if you find the right circle then you will get the respect you deserve. The trouble is finding those opportunities in Oz....

 

 

In Aust cutting down a tall poppy means to heap leavelling derision on anyone who puts on 'superior airs'. The Australians I associate with celebrate the superior acheivements of others but none appreciate the unattractive quality of arrogance.

[bristolman]

Actually the top poppy syndrome is not about people who put on superior airs at all, it is when someone whos talents or achievements elevate them above their peers are attacked or cut down because of those achievements. It has nothing to do with acting in a superior manner. Few people in either country find arrogance attractive.

[deryans]

Actually the top poppy syndrome is not about people who put on superior airs at all, it is when someone whos talents or achievements elevate them above their peers are attacked or cut down because of those achievements. It has nothing to do with acting in a superior manner. Few people in either country find arrogance attractive.

 

Here's an example, I explained to one of my old mentors (ex cambridge) recently in London about constant frustration and being dragged backwards whilst trying to carry out my duties in Adelaide, and he remarked (Kipling's if, don't look too good nor talk too wise) that I was not as smart as I thought I was and the people I derided were actually the clever ones as I was unable to play their game.

 

It took me aback , I'd always thought that I was pretty professional so I went away and thought about it for a day or so.

 

I met him a few days later and he asked me what my thoughts were, and I said simply, I was never ever going to drop my game or performance to fit in with poor performers, it is unfair to me and it is unfair to the people I really work for, my family. Besides, I'm incapable of operating at their level anyway.

 

 

Correct! was his response!

Edited October 21, 2015 by deryans

[flag of convenience]

Whilst this may be avoidable in say a larger employment pool such as dense population centres in northern europe, it has a proportionally greater impact in smaller locations such as Perth and Adelaide, to some extent it can still be avoided in Sydney and larger population centres.

 

I assume you meant poor performer rather than poor as in empathy based on pathos of financial circumstances.

 

The damage that these people do to the economic, reputational and motivitational health of an organisation or city can be significant and sometimes irreversable.

 

I find it astonishing that people seem to think it's ok to say about adelaide, "its not what you know, it's who you know" , :shocked: this speaks volumes in all the wrong ways about the place.

 

I certainly more 'poor' for being in position not through financial lack of well being. Same thing said about Perth as Adelaide in the small town context. Often a particular area is very small and everybody knows everyone else. Talk about gossip and back stabbing. My oh my. I suppose people accept such things as the norm more or less, given time. It does speak volumes though.

[Chortlepuss]

I certainly more 'poor' for being in position not through financial lack of well being. Same thing said about Perth as Adelaide in the small town context. Often a particular area is very small and everybody knows everyone else. Talk about gossip and back stabbing. My oh my. I suppose people accept such things as the norm more or less, given time. It does speak volumes though.

Brisbane struggles in the same way. Having worked in Govt/Not for profit in Brisbane and the UK, I don't think Aussies are intrinsically more corrupt or unprofessional than Brits..... I think that the environment allows and enables small town relationships and dependencies and even fraudulent activity is not open to the same scrutiny or intolerance - I am always shocked in IT recruitment when poorer quality candidates are recruited over more suitable ones in Brisbane due to 'Mate-ship' but these relationships really matter as the person you turn down may have influence on your own position down the line ... Better to appoint a poorer candidate and protect yourself. I am sure many people in the UK would like to operate in this way - but governance and the number of checks and balances precludes them from doing so.