Decided to escape

[JockinTas]

Most of the IT people where I worked came from the UK or India.

[flag of convenience]

So contrary to the oft touted emaphasis on it being an Australian trait, it's more about the size of city (anywhere)?

 

It is something of a trait, but hardly confined to Australia. It does tend to stand out more though as well as favouritism in the actual workplace. Of course Australia doesn't have a monopoly on such practice, just rather obvious.

[flag of convenience]

Most of the IT people where I worked came from the UK or India.

 

In more recent times foreigners have had preference over Aussies. Although at the higher levels I suspect more Aussie inclined.

[grizzly111]

I have never worked in the UK so can't comment, but I won't deny that nepotism, cronyism and tall poppyness occurs there too. In my personal experience, and now sadly, I expect my wife's soon, I have found all too many biting examples of this in Oz. I have found that if even you work very hard, be successful, have the figures to prove it etc, the Aussies are very good at cutting you down to size as it were. There will always be something.

 

And furthermore those workers that aren't doing so well despite being given adequate chance to improve or those that find ways to take advantage of the system are given a helping hand. If you are seen in some way to disagree with this then you, yourself, are seen as an aggressor so to speak.

 

Another thing to watch for are snitches and spies. These fiends aren't unique to Australia of course but I find that when working in regional Oz they are particularly common. Unbelievably so. As someone said previously there is a common love of gossip and backstabbing. When I started out I was particularly naïve and basically trusted everyone. I soon discovered otherwise....They just can't help themselves. In turn, this can make it hard to develop lasting friendships and so forth. Just something to consider along your way.

[JockinTas]

I have never worked in the UK so can't comment, but I won't deny that nepotism, cronyism and tall poppyness occurs there too. In my personal experience, and now sadly, I expect my wife's soon, I have found all too many biting examples of this in Oz. I have found that if even you work very hard, be successful, have the figures to prove it etc, the Aussies are very good at cutting you down to size as it were. There will always be something.

 

And furthermore those workers that aren't doing so well despite being given adequate chance to improve or those that find ways to take advantage of the system are given a helping hand. If you are seen in some way to disagree with this then you, yourself, are seen as an aggressor so to speak.

 

Another thing to watch for are snitches and spies. These fiends aren't unique to Australia of course but I find that when working in regional Oz they are particularly common. Unbelievably so. As someone said previously there is a common love of gossip and backstabbing. When I started out I was particularly naïve and basically trusted everyone. I soon discovered otherwise....They just can't help themselves. In turn, this can make it hard to develop lasting friendships and so forth. Just something to consider along your way.

 

I must have gone through my working life wearing blinkers because apart from one particularly nasty manager, I got on with everybody. I also made lasting friendships along the way. Only three mind you. I had nothing in common with most of the others but we rubbed along OK. There wasn't any backstabbing going on and I tended to steer clear of the gossipers. Could never be bothered with that kind of thing. Happy to be away from office life now though.

[Marisawright]

I have never worked in the UK so can't comment, but I won't deny that nepotism, cronyism and tall poppyness occurs there too. In my personal experience, and now sadly, I expect my wife's soon, I have found all too many biting examples of this in Oz. I have found that if even you work very hard, be successful, have the figures to prove it etc, the Aussies are very good at cutting you down to size as it were. .

 

Can I beg you to stop saying "Australia" and instead specify which city or region you're in? As the posts above you demonstrate, Australian states and cities vary far more than most Brits realise. It's pretty rough to condemn an entire population based on the corner you happen to be in.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Marisawright

[deryans]

I think a few facts need clarifying:

 

* Nepotism and Croynism exists everywhere, Boys clubs are not the exclusive domain of Australia.

 

* Where they do exist, the impact is an inverse relationship to the size/Population centre, the smaller the location, the higher chance you have of being effected.

 

* In Large centres it can be circumvented or avoided, but rarely directly effects (unless you are extremely unlucky) or a unique specialist in your domain.

 

* In smaller places with limited opportunity, croynism and cliquism is a necessity for locals to survive, because if the pickings are slim, then they are already geared to network (as it is called) to share the limited opportunities, by it's very nature Adelaide (and I speak only of Adelaide) is a city that has a very poor chance of improvement, and the cliquism and boys club are a product of the place, they simply don't know any better and that is a receipe for economic extinction becuase it pervades the entire society.

 

Sometimes It's almost like watching a slow motion train wreck or financial disaster porn, Santos announced earlier this week of more jobs to go, and a probe bid by an asian merchant bank was published on thursday (cue frantic PR shuffle at Santos) and low and behold, Santos makes an announcement on friday that their Gas production has reached a new milestone.

 

This is called fluffing the market, but It tells us alot more about Santos than the bank, one is nerve, Santos felt the need to give a good news story asap.

 

Once again, if we take a close look at this one remaining corporate in adelaide, we'll find it full of mates and mates of mates......

 

enough said.

[grizzly111]

Regarding Adelaide: I remember attending a lecture there by a psychologist. He stated clearly that future job opportunities were determined by various factors in the different capital cities of Australia. He listed a few examples that I forgot but I never will forget that he mentioned that the most important factor in Adelaide was, surprisingly, what school you attended. At the time several of us laughed it off. This in fact turned out to be quite true.

[Marisawright]

I was thinking about Tall Poppy Syndrome and I think it does apply just as much in the UK, just in a different way - in Britain, tall poppies are less common because there's so much pressure not to stand out in the first place!

 

I've been noticing this in my dance classes recently. I enquired about belly dance classes, and as they were just about to have their annual concert, the teacher invited me along to meet the girls and asked if I'd dance in the show, since they were short of acts. Unfortunately I had a major brain freeze and did an AWFUL performance! I felt so embarrassed I wanted to disappear.

 

But here's what's interesting - when I moaned to my Aussie friends about it, they all said "oh no! how awful!". When I spoke to English people about it, their overwhelming reaction was, "Probably just as well - if you'd been really good, they'd have thought you were showing off and you wouldn't have made any friends in the class".

 

That reminded me of my sister - she learned to line dance when her oh was posted in Germany, and she was really good. When she returned to the UK, she joined a line dance class with great enthusiasm - only to find that the other women were cold and unfriendly. She eventually found out they all thought she was a show-off. She's not - she's like me, she loves to dance so she throws herself into it, and she always has a huge grin on her face because she enjoys it so much. I love watching her because she's just so joyful! She was actually advised to "tone it down" - i.e. stop smiling, make her movements smaller, get things wrong occasionally.

 

I've never experienced that attitude in Sydney - in fact good dancers were admired and encouraged, and we would often make positive comments to each other after class when someone had done a particularly good routine.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Marisawright

[bristolman]

I was thinking about Tall Poppy Syndrome and I think it does apply just as much in the UK, just in a different way - in Britain, tall poppies are less common because there's so much pressure not to stand out in the first place!

 

I've been noticing this in my dance classes recently. I enquired about belly dance classes, and as they were just about to have their annual concert, the teacher invited me along to meet the girls and asked if I'd dance in the show, since they were short of acts. Unfortunately I had a major brain freeze and did an AWFUL performance! I felt so embarrassed I wanted to disappear.

 

But here's what's interesting - when I moaned to my Aussie friends about it, they all said "oh no! how awful!". When I spoke to English people about it, their overwhelming reaction was, "Probably just as well - if you'd been really good, they'd have thought you were showing off and you wouldn't have made any friends in the class".

 

That reminded me of my sister - she learned to line dance when her oh was posted in Germany, and she was really good. When she returned to the UK, she joined a line dance class with great enthusiasm - only to find that the other women were cold and unfriendly. She eventually found out they all thought she was a show-off. She's not - she's like me, she loves to dance so she throws herself into it, and she always has a huge grin on her face because she enjoys it so much. I love watching her because she's just so joyful! She was actually advised to "tone it down" - i.e. stop smiling, make her movements smaller, get things wrong occasionally.

 

I've never experienced that attitude in Sydney - in fact good dancers were admired and encouraged, and we would often make positive comments to each other after class when someone had done a particularly good routine.

 

Not my experience at all. So much pressure not to stand out ? If people do a good thing they get congratulated on it, I have never come across those who shy aware from giving a pat on the back when deserved. I have never ever heard of someone needing to tone down their activities so they don't appear too good. That's weird. This country congratulates and encourages success as much as anywhere in my experience.

[Marisawright]

Not my experience at all. So much pressure not to stand out ? If people do a good thing they get congratulated on it, I have never come across those who shy aware from giving a pat on the back when deserved. I have never ever heard of someone needing to tone down their activities so they don't appear too good. That's weird. This country congratulates and encourages success as much as anywhere in my experience.

 

That may be your experience in YOUR part of the country. My own experience is in So'ton and my sister's experience was in Scotland.

[Johndoe]

Not my experience at all. So much pressure not to stand out ? If people do a good thing they get congratulated on it, I have never come across those who shy aware from giving a pat on the back when deserved. I have never ever heard of someone needing to tone down their activities so they don't appear too good. That's weird. This country congratulates and encourages success as much as anywhere in my experience.

 

Which is based on, how many years in the Uk and in how many locations within?

 

So many positives with regards to your short time in the UK, and so many negatives with regards to your long stay in Oz (from the age of 18 months was it?) and the opportunities it afforded you..........even extending to affording you to bale out of the place?

 

OK, the UK works for you, but never fail to remind yourself that you are there because of the fact that Oz afforded you the ability to achieve that..............brought out to Oz at 18 months was it? On past performance and previous identities, I bet you were kicking and screaming back then!.........or are you there in the Uk because of your superior knowledge of reptiles and the fact that even as an Oz citizen, you decried it's reptile protectionism?................of course...........reptile knowledge and preservation ............something that had you been raised there, the UK would have instilled in you anyway :wacko:

 

Really? In all honesty? Do you love the UK because it affords you more opportunities to inprison your beloved reptiles?

[bristolman]

That may be your experience in YOUR part of the country. My own experience is in So'ton and my sister's experience was in Scotland.

 

Well yes my experience of close to 20 years scattered over a period of 5 decades in a few different areas. I have never come across a situation where someone has had to in effect dumb themselves down or feel they need to underachieve. I'm not saying you didn't experience it but it's not something I have ever seen.

[Johndoe]

Not my experience at all. So much pressure not to stand out ? If people do a good thing they get congratulated on it, I have never come across those who shy aware from giving a pat on the back when deserved. I have never ever heard of someone needing to tone down their activities so they don't appear too good. That's weird. This country congratulates and encourages success as much as anywhere in my experience.

 

Glad to hear that, seeing as the inference was from your previous post, based on your "this country" quote seems to emphasise the UK.......surprise, surprise! So care to qualify that the same goes for Oz?

[Guest sh7t man no way]

nice thread pomstar--should get the love oz brigade sweaty under the arms:ssign15:

[bristolman]

nice thread pomstar--should get the love oz brigade sweaty under the arms:ssign15:

 

Oh they are well and truly sweaty lol

[Guest sh7t man no way]

 

Oh they are well and truly sweaty lol

its so amusing to me that on the MBTTUK section of pio,where one presumes its for members to confide in there feelings about leaving oz there seems people who love oz putting there 2 pennith worth in--a bit of an X files to me--still there you chuffin go:daydreaming:

[Marisawright]

Your presumption is wrong! MBTTUK is for people wanting to move back, people who don't want to move back but have to, people who are trying to decide whether to move back, people who've moved back and regretted it, etc

 

When I was thinking of moving back, I appreciated all the different views from both sides, even the loonies.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Marisawright

[Guest sh7t man no way]

I didn't presume I assumed--how are things in Southampton these days

[bristolman]

I didn't presume I assumed--how are things in Southampton these days

 

Don't ask

[Guest sh7t man no way]

aye--is that where the titanic sailed from--enough said:no:

[Marisawright]

I didn't presume I assumed--how are things in Southampton these days

 

I repeated the verb you used, out of politeness: "its so amusing to me that on the MBTTUK section of pio,where one presumes . . ."

 

As for Southampton - it's a depressing place overflowing with bogans and dole bludgers - I've never seen so many people on crutches in my life, it's funny the way they limp on to the bus (to show they deserve their disabled bus pass), then later you see them striding down the street. The only people who look bright and purposeful are the Poles.

 

However we've decided not to bother moving as we'll be returning Oz mid-next year. We're not basing that decision on So'ton alone, we've done a lot of touring around the country already and it's become obvious that the only places we'd like to live in, we can't afford. We'll be using the next six months to make the most of our proximity to Europe, So'ton will be just a base.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Marisawright

[starlight7]

Good on you Marisa- thanks for your honesty.

[BacktoDemocracy]

I repeated the verb you used, out of politeness: "its so amusing to me that on the MBTTUK section of pio,where one presumes . . ."

 

As for Southampton - it's a depressing place overflowing with bogans and dole bludgers - I've never seen so many people on crutches in my life, it's funny the way they limp on to the bus (to show they deserve their disabled bus pass), then later you see them striding down the street. The only people who look bright and purposeful are the Poles.

 

However we've decided not to bother moving as we'll be returning Oz mid-next year. We're not basing that decision on So'ton alone, we've done a lot of touring around the country already and it's become obvious that the only places we'd like to live in, we can't afford. We'll be using the next six months to make the most of our proximity to Europe, So'ton will be just a base.

 

Well that's Southampton damned then, I understand from that then that you fully endorse the govt's intention to make the poor and the disabled responsible for the country's decline and they deserve to be screwed, nothing to do with the bloodsucking , incompetent bankers selling completely worthless investments, it's all the fault of the skiving poor and the layabouts who couldn't be bothered to get themselves a proper education.

Everybody who is on disability benefit must be able to do some work, I mean they can pick litter up out of those wheelchairs can't they, that's the attitude of this govt isn't it.

[Marisawright]

Well that's Southampton damned then, I understand from that then that you fully endorse the govt's intention to make the poor and the disabled responsible for the country's decline and they deserve to be screwed

 

Not at all, but it's odd that there are so many adverts for jobs in the shops and yet so many able-bodied layabouts in the streets - and as I said in another post, I am amazed at the number of people walking around with crutches, which they obviously don't really need. I've been on crutches myself and I have a step-niece who's permanently on them, so I know how they're used!