Are the problems in society as prominent in Australia as in UK ?

[fifi69]

Well as most have said Australia has all the same issues as the UK, no worse but certainly no better. Crime is pretty much identical with the murder rate in Australia higher and probably some other crimes higher in the UK. Neither is more or less safe to walk at night. Neither country is better or worse for kids to grow up in, our kids had a good life in Queensland and have an equally good life here. They still act like kids and being quite rural they seem to be hanging onto their childhood longer compared to their old friends which is nice.

It is perfectly natural for those people looking to make what is likely to be the most important move of their lives to be to a 'better' place otherwise to an extent what's the point ?

Anyone making the move should be happy to know that generally speaking they won't be going somewhere that is worse.

Australia is a lovely place to live, just go knowing that you COULD be the victim of crime just as you could here.

 

Thanks for that PC bristolman:laugh:

 

we can be a victim anywhere. Thankfully I wasnt in the UK , nor here so far.

 

So for me Aus 1 point - UK 1 point.

 

next.....

[Diane]

I think when kids are younger Australia has the edge over Britain (bear in mind it's over 11 years since I lived in the UK) because the role models for kids tend to be sports people rather than the type that it used to be in the UK, who were just famous for being famous, and pictured falling out of clubs drunk out of their minds in the early hours of the morning. Although with reality TV maybe it's changing a little here now too.

 

However as they get older, yes there are more limited opportunities career-wise, and I think youth unemployment is something like 15% (you could probably google that to get something more accurate) - worse in some states than others. There is also a huge problem with teenage depression here - again that may be the same in the Uk nowadays but I didn't have teenagers when I was there. You hear of so many on antidepressants, I think it's a major problem that gets very little coverage.

[bristolman]

I think when kids are younger Australia has the edge over Britain (bear in mind it's over 11 years since I lived in the UK) because the role models for kids tend to be sports people rather than the type that it used to be in the UK, who were just famous for being famous, and pictured falling out of clubs drunk out of their minds in the early hours of the morning. Although with reality TV maybe it's changing a little here now too.

 

However as they get older, yes there are more limited opportunities career-wise, and I think youth unemployment is something like 15% (you could probably google that to get something more accurate) - worse in some states than others. There is also a huge problem with teenage depression here - again that may be the same in the Uk nowadays but I didn't have teenagers when I was there. You hear of so many on antidepressants, I think it's a major problem that gets very little coverage.

 

In fairness that aspect of this country definitely does seem to have changed and those people don't thankfully grab all the headlines, the public generally seems to have woken up to them.

So eone said earlier in this thread that kids or at least their kids seem to have stayed kids longer in Australia which ironically is what we have found about living where we do so I think that seems more location dependant within the country rather than the country itself.

[caramac]

If you want to move to Australia for a change, an adventure, for the experience or just because you fancy it, then go for it. Don't go because you think your daughter will necessarily have a better life - she will be far more influenced by you as parents than anything else. As others have said, the same problems exist there as here, depending on where you live.

 

My husband works with young people and, as previous posters have said, the incidence of ice use was much higher in his catchment area of Melbourne than it is in his very deprived area of the NE of England where cannabis is the drug of choice. ICE can make people very violent and there was a padded room where he worked and the police were never far away for workers exposed to violence. That doesn't mean that Australia is a more dangerous place to live, but if I lived in one of the areas affected by the antisocial behaviour caused by ICE abuse my perspective might be different. You could just as easily avoid the problems you're currently seeing by moving within the UK. We live in a lovely area and are not witness to antisocial behaviour at all, but if we moved 20 miles then I'm sure we'd see a lot more of it.

 

My daughters have had two spells of living in Australia during their childhoods and the experiences have been pretty much the same. They went to school, learned to read and write, had lots of extra curricular activites and have gone into very similar courses at university in the UK as their peers have done in Australia. The only difference I would say I've noticed is that mine have done many more exchange trips with European schools and international trips than would have been feasible from Australia. These trips fired an interest in languages in our eldest who is now studying three languages. Maybe she would have developed an interest in marine biology if we'd stayed in Australia! They learned surfing at school there too which they don't do here, thank goodness!

There are more similarities than differences, so go if you want to go (it's a beautiful country), but expect to see the same problems and advantages as exist here.

[bunbury61]

Birds of a Feather is the same all over the world. I am sure that as you are concerned give you daughter is already a fine young person. I have two children, they drink but they do not take drugs, drugs were around and we talked about it but they decided like I did when I was young that it was not for them and it was not for me. We cannot prevent our children wanting to try new things but a lot don't bother. Same old situation the bad news gets the medias attentions and is only a small proportion of the community as a whole in most places in the world.

 

Worrying about our children never ends till we pop our clogs and we can only guide them if they ask us to.

 

Tend to disagree with the "birds of a feather " quote ...the British and the Aussie youth have a similar behaviour pattern after 10 pints..a sweeping generalisation I know ...i see it as an Anglo Saxon thing

 

We don't see the Irish behave like that ,generally.

 

 

You don't see that level of consumption or behaviour in many parts of western europe on a night out

[HappyHeart]

In our experience....if it's worse in UK.....wouldn't want to try it! Brought up a teen here and same challenges as in UK, same social underclass, same bludgers, same drug and alcohol issues, probably less 'on the street' visible teenagers running amok...but overall... not much difference? Really, it's about the child/teen/adult not the country. Lots of social issues. Lots of help and support....hate to use the phrase but 'first world country' same problems. Less racial tension is only difference (in our experience) and more for kids to do if so inclined.

[Quoll]

Same sh!t, shinier shovel. Just the same problems - one of my boys got mugged for his sunnies in Westmead Paramatta a good few years ago now (and it's only got worse since then) and our cars have been broken into many times if left out on the street. The level of youth suicide in Aus is horrible, as is the level of self harming behaviours in older teens. Not magical for kids by any means. One of mine discovered UK on his post Uni gap year and has not the slightest intention to return to Aus not even Sydney or Melbourne. He's got a nice career thing going and owns a house. His son has all sorts of opportunities which he would also have in Aus. Both of my boys have been very disappointed with their Uni experiences - the one in UK has discussed this with his English friends and is quite scathing of the level of tertiary education he received in comparison (his Uni scores high on the Aus tables!)

 

As others have said, do it because you have an adult itch for adventure that needs to be scratched but not the "better life for the kids" meme. That 24 hour flight doesn't endow them with better looks, more brains or magical opportunities not available elsewhere in the first world. They won't be disadvantaged by it either of course as long as they have steadfast, loving parents.

[Irishgirl1]

I can't speak for the UK, but I can for Perth and and some other major Cities, as I have very close friends there, one of my good friends is High up in the Police Force, I have never mentioned that before but some of the stories they have told us would make your skin crawl, Suicide is High in Australia and Cutting has become an epidemic with young teenagers, the biggest problem now is Ice the new Drug of Australia and it is ruining lives it is a horrible drug , all we can do is inform our Children and always talk to them, so many teenagers are now on Anti-Depressants too, I believe Social Media has a lot to do with it IMO !!

Edited October 2, 2015 by Irishgirl1

[MARYROSE02]

Yes, it is true that Ice appears to be rife in Australia, but whether it is an "epidemic" - the word you use to describe teenagers "cutting" (themselves), is another matter.

[Irishgirl1]

Yes, it is true that Ice appears to be rife in Australia, but whether it is an "epidemic" - the word you use to describe teenagers "cutting" (themselves), is another matter.

 

 

 

 

Please enlighten me Maryrose !! x

[MARYROSE02]

Bottom line, come to OZ and your life will be ""solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short". (Thomas Hobbes.)

[Irishgirl1]

I never said that all would have that kind of life!!! what I was saying is these are some of the issues of Australia I can not comment on the Uk as I don't live there, I live in Perth and have a teenager and see what is going on and hear what is going on and am aware what are major issues, obviously the life these Children/Teenagers are living will have an impact on them just like any First World Country !!!

[bristolman]

Bottom line, come to OZ and your life will be ""solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short". (Thomas Hobbes.)

 

Who is saying any of that ? For goodness sake stop being so precious.

[Marisawright]

I did think that working day jobs was the lot of actors everywhere, even in Hollywood?

 

I can understand that someone would do a uni course here then head overseas for further specialised study and / or more work opportunities.

Yes, but remember if someone has left the UK then returns to do further study, they'll have to pay fees as a foreign student which are far far higher than they'd pay as a UK resident. So it's possible their dream could be put out of reach.

 

But as the various creative fields expand here, wouldnt that lead to more opportunities?

 

What kind of standard is NIDA here in Sydney for instance? What courses would you HAVE to leave Australia to do?

 

I understand the distances involved but shows, plays, concerts and opera still go on. International stars and acts still tour and they would not come off it wasn't profitable.

 

Sure, but not nearly as many as you'll find in the UK and Europe - because it's only financially possible for the most famous ones. How often can I say this - I'm not talking about quality, I'm talking about V-A-R-I-E-T-Y. There is a smaller audience therefore fewer shows, therefore less work.

[Marisawright]

Not total rubbish surely. 23 million people plus 4 million in NZ provides a market of sorts. The huge clubs here in NSW guarantee work with all their shows and bands, and if there was no work.

 

Of course there is not "no work", what a silly thing to say! I am not saying there is "no work", I am saying there is LESS work! Blimey!

[deryans]

I can't speak for the UK, but I can for Perth and and some other major Cities, as I have very close friends there, one of my good friends is High up in the Police Force, I have never mentioned that before but some of the stories they have told us would make your skin crawl, Suicide is High in Australia and Cutting has become an epidemic with young teenagers, the biggest problem now is Ice the new Drug of Australia and it is ruining lives it is a horrible drug , all we can do is inform our Children and always talk to them, so many teenagers are now on Anti-Depressants too, I believe Social Media has a lot to do with it IMO !!

 

I worked in the Justice system in both NSW and SA, Ice is definitely a major problem both there and in SA, it is cheap and very easy to manufacture, infact one of the last trials I attended in SA was a wanna-be bikie clown convicted whilst carrying around 16K worth of cash and about 30K worth of ICE in varying states ( paste, powder, crystal).

 

I also worked in the child protection (as a consultant on protective intervention and slow burner abuse, yeah delightful subject matter ..not) in NSW , and what I saw quite simply exhausted me emotionally and professionally, huge professional effort by case workers and police are squandered by senior lassie faire leadership & political clowns (yes, clover) who should be shown the door.

 

I have also travelled extensively though-out australia , and been into some of the most remote areas of the country, and what I saw left me with only despair, it's not getting better , sadly it's getting much much worse. I saw first-hand what substance abuse does to remote societies.

 

So, yes, Australia is OK if you can afford to bring up kids in a nice environment, same as UK I imagine, however, if you can't ?.....

 

I agree with one of the other posters here, Australia is good to start a family, but not so great anymore to complete it, UK and Europe have much much more opportunity and options than say a regional area in oz like Adelaide or Perth or indeed Townsville ?

 

We moved back to the UK this year and Kids are thriving and I have seen no evidence of ICE and or groups of kids hanging round on street corners.

[VERYSTORMY]

I worked in the Justice system in both NSW and SA, Ice is definitely a major problem both there and in SA, it is cheap and very easy to manufacture, infact one of the last trials I attended in SA was a wanna-be bikie clown convicted whilst carrying around 16K worth of cash and about 30K worth of ICE in varying states ( paste, powder, crystal).

 

I also worked in the child protection (as a consultant on protective intervention and slow burner abuse, yeah delightful subject matter ..not) in NSW , and what I saw quite simply exhausted me emotionally and professionally, huge professional effort by case workers and police are squandered by senior lassie faire leadership & political clowns (yes, clover) who should be shown the door.

 

I have also travelled extensively though-out australia , and been into some of the most remote areas of the country, and what I saw left me with only despair, it's not getting better , sadly it's getting much much worse. I saw first-hand what substance abuse does to remote societies.

 

So, yes, Australia is OK if you can afford to bring up kids in a nice environment, same as UK I imagine, however, if you can't ?.....

 

I agree with one of the other posters here, Australia is good to start a family, but not so great anymore to complete it, UK and Europe have much much more opportunity and options than say a regional area in oz like Adelaide or Perth or indeed Townsville ?

 

We moved back to the UK this year and Kids are thriving and I have seen no evidence of ICE and or groups of kids hanging round on street corners.

 

I work in a small regional WA town and can confirm your comments. The local police estimate that up to 50% of the town are taking it. It isn't just young people either. It is across the board. They are trying and do regularly set up road blocks for several days at a time. But, it is still coming into town.

[LKC]

I haven't seen any evidence of ICE directly in the area we live in (we are in a suburb right at the edge of Sydney and it is a very family friendly and low crime suburb), but in Sutherland Shire in general, I have noticed an increase in petty crime being reported on area specific Facebook pages just over the past two or three months. Things like graffiti, cars being keyed, road rage type incidents, bashings, people hitting cars in car parks and driving off without leaving details, shoplifting etc, and I had wondered if ICE might be a factor. I don't know that it is, but I had wondered.

[MARYROSE02]

I worked in the Justice system in both NSW and SA, Ice is definitely a major problem both there and in SA, it is cheap and very easy to manufacture, infact one of the last trials I attended in SA was a wanna-be bikie clown convicted whilst carrying around 16K worth of cash and about 30K worth of ICE in varying states ( paste, powder, crystal).

 

I also worked in the child protection (as a consultant on protective intervention and slow burner abuse, yeah delightful subject matter ..not) in NSW , and what I saw quite simply exhausted me emotionally and professionally, huge professional effort by case workers and police are squandered by senior lassie faire leadership & political clowns (yes, clover) who should be shown the door.

 

I have also travelled extensively though-out australia , and been into some of the most remote areas of the country, and what I saw left me with only despair, it's not getting better , sadly it's getting much much worse. I saw first-hand what substance abuse does to remote societies.

 

So, yes, Australia is OK if you can afford to bring up kids in a nice environment, same as UK I imagine, however, if you can't ?.....

 

I agree with one of the other posters here, Australia is good to start a family, but not so great anymore to complete it, UK and Europe have much much more opportunity and options than say a regional area in oz like Adelaide or Perth or indeed Townsville ?

 

We moved back to the UK this year and Kids are thriving and I have seen no evidence of ICE and or groups of kids hanging round on street corners.

Well, that is your opinion based on personal experience. But how do the statistics for all the nasty things you mention compare in both countries?

 

Is the place you live typical of everywhere in the UK?

 

Are drugs/alcohol /domestic violence. etc less of a problem in the UK than Australia?

 

Maybe all those problems ARE more of a problem in Australia, though I don't think so. Those problems are the same everywhere "in my opinion" so I shall have to do some research.

 

What will happen if I Google "drug and alcohol abuse in Australia" and then repeat the question for the UK?

[MARYROSE02]

I haven't seen any evidence of ICE directly in the area we live in (we are in a suburb right at the edge of Sydney and it is a very family friendly and low crime suburb), but in Sutherland Shire in general, I have noticed an increase in petty crime being reported on area specific Facebook pages just over the past two or three months. Things like graffiti, cars being keyed, road rage type incidents, bashings, people hitting cars in car parks and driving off without leaving details, shoplifting etc, and I had wondered if ICE might be a factor. I don't know that it is, but I had wondered.

It's a topic worthy of research. Here in Surry Hills there is plenty of evidence and facts to confirm drug and alcohol abuse, and many reports into an "ICE Endemic" (running concurrently with the "SHARK Endemic!)

 

Is there a hint of, what is the term? "Moral panic?

 

Being affected personally by something colours your experience but it does not necessarily mean that society as a whole is similarly affected.

 

Some problems in Australia with its remote communities and indigenous population are not comparable to the UK, to the USA and Canada perhaps with similar native populations.

 

To suggest that across Australia, God fearing middle class migrant families are cowering in their homes wishing they'd never left Britain is ridiculous.

I worked in the Justice system in both NSW and SA, Ice is definitely a major problem both there and in SA, it is cheap and very easy to manufacture, infact one of the last trials I attended in SA was a wanna-be bikie clown convicted whilst carrying around 16K worth of cash and about 30K worth of ICE in varying states ( paste, powder, crystal).

 

I also worked in the child protection (as a consultant on protective intervention and slow burner abuse, yeah delightful subject matter ..not) in NSW , and what I saw quite simply exhausted me emotionally and professionally, huge professional effort by case workers and police are squandered by senior lassie faire leadership & political clowns (yes, clover) who should be shown the door.

 

I have also travelled extensively though-out australia , and been into some of the most remote areas of the country, and what I saw left me with only despair, it's not getting better , sadly it's getting much much worse. I saw first-hand what substance abuse does to remote societies.

 

So, yes, Australia is OK if you can afford to bring up kids in a nice environment, same as UK I imagine, however, if you can't ?.....

 

I agree with one of the other posters here, Australia is good to start a family, but not so great anymore to complete it, UK and Europe have much much more opportunity and options than say a regional area in oz like Adelaide or Perth or indeed Townsville ?

 

We moved back to the UK this year and Kids are thriving and I have seen no evidence of ICE and or groups of kids hanging round on street corners.

[JockinTas]

Same sh!t, shinier shovel. Just the same problems - one of my boys got mugged for his sunnies in Westmead Paramatta a good few years ago now (and it's only got worse since then) and our cars have been broken into many times if left out on the street. The level of youth suicide in Aus is horrible, as is the level of self harming behaviours in older teens. Not magical for kids by any means. One of mine discovered UK on his post Uni gap year and has not the slightest intention to return to Aus not even Sydney or Melbourne. He's got a nice career thing going and owns a house. His son has all sorts of opportunities which he would also have in Aus. Both of my boys have been very disappointed with their Uni experiences - the one in UK has discussed this with his English friends and is quite scathing of the level of tertiary education he received in comparison (his Uni scores high on the Aus tables!)

 

As others have said, do it because you have an adult itch for adventure that needs to be scratched but not the "better life for the kids" meme. That 24 hour flight doesn't endow them with better looks, more brains or magical opportunities not available elsewhere in the first world. They won't be disadvantaged by it either of course as long as they have steadfast, loving parents.

 

I know there are problems in Australia with drugs and crime. However we have never had anything stolen, never been mugged etc. Also our lads were very happy with their uni education here. Which university were your sons not happy with? My two went to Sydney uni and worked hard for their degrees neither of them are scathing about the level of tertiary education. Both have good jobs. One is now working overseas.

[ramot]

Funnily enough both my (well behaved!) sons have been hit in UK, when in their late teens/early 20's, one in our sleepy Nottingham village, had a broken jaw, and the other in Bristol, so it can happen anywhere. Both in their 40's now.

All 3 of ours went to Uni in UK, seemed to do ok, then middle son studied here in his 30's and had no complaints or bad comparisons to UK.

Luckily as Jock, have never been burgled or car broken into, thank goodness.

Have driven extensively around Oz, and just done over 3000 miles in UK.

[VERYSTORMY]

Will add that I am away at the moment and my wife back home is pretty scared. We have a guy recently released from prison who in the last couple of weeks has been committing a bag full of offences such as breaking into homes, hijacking cars, armed robberies and he attacked a woman the other day all in our area.

[AJ]

Will add that I am away at the moment and my wife back home is pretty scared. We have a guy recently released from prison who in the last couple of weeks has been committing a bag full of offences such as breaking into homes, hijacking cars, armed robberies and he attacked a woman the other day all in our area.

So you know that it was him that has done all this stuff, must have been really busy in a couple of weeks! or is it just local gossip because they know the guy was released from prison?

[Bungo]

The fact is and as the crime figures show, it would make no sense to move from the UK to Australia for lower crime as crime rates are not lower. But it also would make no sense to move to the UK from Australia for the lower crime rates because the difference is negligible and not going to make any difference to life. In both countries, avoiding crime is about (to a point) picking a specific town or suburb.