ramot Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 My daughter has just started working for a large company in Sydney, with branches in all major cities apart from Perth. On the first day, the person she is replacing, had to work all night to get a proposal out, and then stayed on all the next day as well as having worked all night!!! My daughter was not expected to stay on that occasion. She has been told this is not an unusual occurrence! and they are often there as well till 1am, and expected in at the normal time in the morning. This is coupled with no lunch break and eating their food at their desks. She is on a WHV and about to be sponsored on a 457. I've told her to hold her part back! I can't believe that this is or should be allowed. Does anyone know the work regulations, as I can't believe they aren't breaking every rule in the book. As long as her application hasn't gone through she can walk away and stay on her WHV. otherwise she will have to leave the country in 28 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cez Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Is she paid per hour or is she on an annual salary? I don't know anything about employment law over here, but my partner works in banking in Sydney and he often has to work till 1am-2am in the morning when it's busy, he also gets sent off around the country for meetings and literally works every waking hour. This isn't an excuse by any means, but it does seem the work ethic in Sydney can be pretty hardcore depending on which field you work in :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest36187 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 The whole work ethic in Australia is completely different to the uk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 You'll probably find they don't bill for the extra work, (and certainly wouldn't get paid), so it's not on the books so they can do as they like. It is in effect voluntary. I once had a job where I did 16 hr shifts, and I had to take a break every five hours. There was no one to replace me, so I couldn't take a break, but I still got no money for the break time. It just sucks in some companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missus B Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 If the person chooses not to work all of these hours, then they can't sack them. I would imagine this person is putting these hours in and working through their lunch because they are perhaps competitive and want to make their career happen rather than go along at the usual pace. I work 80 hours a week by choice. I love being at work and I love the financial rewards. Private sector employers will always favour the employee that puts the job first and goes that extra mile and there must be rewards in it somewhere along the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 My daughter has just started working for a large company in Sydney, with branches in all major cities apart from Perth. On the first day, the person she is replacing, had to work all night to get a proposal out, and then stayed on all the next day as well as having worked all night!!! My daughter was not expected to stay on that occasion. She has been told this is not an unusual occurrence! and they are often there as well till 1am, and expected in at the normal time in the morning. This is coupled with no lunch break and eating their food at their desks. She is on a WHV and about to be sponsored on a 457. I've told her to hold her part back! I can't believe that this is or should be allowed. Does anyone know the work regulations, as I can't believe they aren't breaking every rule in the book. As long as her application hasn't gone through she can walk away and stay on her WHV. otherwise she will have to leave the country in 28 days. Depends on the industry she's in I suppose. My brother is a corporate lawyer (in london) and works the most ridiculous hours, always has, pre partnership and now as partner. I think in certain professions it's expected. If you don't pull your weight like the rest, you get fired. I don't think the European working time directive has pervaded as far as the city of London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 Seems to be the culture in the company, rather than 1 individual working too much, but to work through the night in an office job, and then be expected to continue all through the next day is out of order. She is on an annual salary and not on a very high powered job. Have spoken to my niece who is in HR, and now know the rules. Theoretically shouldn't work more than a 12 hour day, should have 10 hrs min off and 2 10 min breaks + 1/2hr lunch. Just want her to stay on her WHV rather than a 457, so she can walk away if necessary and still stay here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katiem Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Depends on the industry she's in I suppose. My brother is a corporate lawyer (in london) and works the most ridiculous hours, always has, pre partnership and now as partner. I think in certain professions it's expected. If you don't pull your weight like the rest, you get fired. I don't think the European working time directive has pervaded as far as the city of London. Totall agree with Harpodom...depends on the job type. I'm an accountant and there are times where I have to work ridiculously long hours to hit deadlines. I honestly couldn't tell you the last time I had a lunch break and generally all food is eaten at my desk! But it's something I expect now so it's no issue. What job is she going into ramot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Not unusual in my experience. There is often a TOIL (Time off in lieu) or flexi time arrangement when you have to work outrageous hours but in the past I have been obliged to work long hours and weekends at the behest of my employer and even though I have had TOIL in the bank, never had the time to be able to use it. If she doesnt like it, she can certainly leave, there will be others who would put up with it because they need the job. Fair Work Australia http://www.fwa.gov.au/ are probably the people to canvass if she is concerned that the company is reneging on any contract she may have signed with respect to her employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamjar Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Seems to be the culture in the company, rather than 1 individual working too much, but to work through the night in an office job, and then be expected to continue all through the next day is out of order. She is on an annual salary and not on a very high powered job. Have spoken to my niece who is in HR, and now know the rules. Theoretically shouldn't work more than a 12 hour day, should have 10 hrs min off and 2 10 min breaks + 1/2hr lunch. Just want her to stay on her WHV rather than a 457, so she can walk away if necessary and still stay here. Thats the corporate world, its the same hear in London. Deadlines need to be met and set office hours go out the window, sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freckleface Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I think this is the norm in most sectors these days especially when there is competition for promotions, more interesting or challenging roles etc. I also think it is a world wide phenomenon and not a particularly new one (although I acknowledge you may not have been exposed to it before now). You haven't said what sector your daughter is working in but if it is in a sector where this is the norm she is either going to have to learn to do it in order to keep up with her peers or reconsider her career choices and direction. I know you don't want her to accept a role with the company on a 457 visa, but what does she want to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubbidydub Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Try being a chef! This sort of hours was what it was like in the uk.....oz is no different! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eera Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Your breaks are set in legislation (previously Workplace Health and Safety Regulations in QLD, can't think what the new federal act is called). You cannot, under law, be expected to work without lunch breaks. Work hours are by company, but there will (or should be) a fatigue management policy which will state the maximum continuous hours someone can be expected to work. there's usually a minimum 10 hour break between shifts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 I think this is the norm in most sectors these days especially when there is competition for promotions, more interesting or challenging roles etc. I also think it is a world wide phenomenon and not a particularly new one (although I acknowledge you may not have been exposed to it before now). You haven't said what sector your daughter is working in but if it is in a sector where this is the norm she is either going to have to learn to do it in order to keep up with her peers or reconsider her career choices and direction. I know you don't want her to accept a role with the company on a 457 visa, but what does she want to do? Don't get me wrong, it's her choice and I'm sure she will give it a fair go!!! It just seems to make sense to try and stay on her WHV to start with, as it gives her more flexibility should the job not work out. I just think from a business point of view, it can't be good practise for employees to permanently go with out lunch breaks etc. I'm sure you work more productively if you are treated properly, and at least time off in lieu if you have worked from 0800 to 1700'sh on the next day isn't unreasonable. I still don't think any company should expect you to stay at your desk for nearly 36 hours, whatever occupation you are in. The only time I worked for that long as a stewardess was when an a/craft went tec. and we were certainly given the next day off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freckleface Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Don't get me wrong, it's her choice and I'm sure she will give it a fair go!!! It just seems to make sense to try and stay on her WHV to start with, as it gives her more flexibility should the job not work out. She might need to be careful how she tackles this with them. It could be viewed as a lack of enthusiasm or commitment that results in them withdrawing the 457 offer. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I suppose your perspective and what seem important can change over time. In the 80's and 90's I worked mega hours, and studied for a degree at the same time, putting work before everything else, including my health! Was it worth it? I don't think so but then again I did pay off my mortgage in double-quick time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal2 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 my Oh was a bobby at certain times on certain cases he would have no days off and about 4/5 hours sleep, for a few weeks in a row, and no he didnt get over time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salma Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I use to work long hours in London and depending on what job she has I was in Client Services in a Marketng Agency it was expected. There were occassions where I worked till 9 not getting home till 11 and had to be in for 9 the next just how work is i guess at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
York Fox Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 It's certainly not unusual to work long hours here. Most people I know (mining and resources/engineering management) work 50 every week and 70 on a bad one. Whether it is worth it or not depends on two things: 1. How much does she want to remain in Australia beyond her allotted year. 2. What she does for a living, and therefore what are the chances of her being offered a visa from another company. For me it was worth working my proverbial off to get the 457, but I can't say I enjoy the working conditions. My choice was work really hard and get the visa and the access to the money and career Australia offers, or not accept the hours and return home (possibly never to return). It is worth bearing in mind that it is possible that her current employer are unusual in offering a visa for her grade and that by leaving/not getting the visa she might be giving up her chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournegirlinny Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Don't get me wrong, it's her choice and I'm sure she will give it a fair go!!! It just seems to make sense to try and stay on her WHV to start with, as it gives her more flexibility should the job not work out. I just think from a business point of view, it can't be good practise for employees to permanently go with out lunch breaks etc. I'm sure you work more productively if you are treated properly, and at least time off in lieu if you have worked from 0800 to 1700'sh on the next day isn't unreasonable. I still don't think any company should expect you to stay at your desk for nearly 36 hours, whatever occupation you are in. The only time I worked for that long as a stewardess was when an a/craft went tec. and we were certainly given the next day off. If your daughter is working at an investment bank (merchant bank) or a big law firm, then those hours and conditions are totally normal. I worked for many years in one of the biggest law firms in Australia and 2 global firms in New York and London and it was routine to not go home some nights and continue working through the next day. It is called 'pulling an all nighter'. For professional jobs, you do not get paid extra. For jobs like trades etc that are protected by Awards there are concepts of overtime etc...but you won't find that applies working in a huge corporate place. It's not healthy but it is certainly how big business operates in big cities, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkyhill Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 It depends on the role - In the corporate world if you want more responsibility you need to climb the ranks you have to work hard/long hours. It also depends on how much you enjoy your job! if I didn't enjoy my job I would only work the minimum hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkyhill Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Also with smartphones, your never that far from work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Lass Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I'm with the others who have said that it depends upon your profession. I am contracting at the moment and as a contractor working for someone else I can leave on the dot if I want to but if I were a permanent employee I would be putting in a lot more hours for either O/T (if authorised) or TOIL just as I did in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobj Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Done quite a few long shifts; 24 hours bogging out a mine adit, 19 hours doing a 1500 cu. m concrete pour, 17 hours doing a 900 cu. m concrete pour, 27 hours repairing a flood crossing on the Great Northern Hwy. All paid.:jiggy: Cheers, Bobj. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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