Things you miss about Oz?

[CatMoose]

On 18/09/2021 at 00:28, Wanderer Returns said:

If you think renting is expensive in the UK, then you're in for a rude awakening when you arrive back here!

Not at all ... given what I would earn in Melbourne, accommodation is a) more readily available and b) more affordable than in the UK

[CatMoose]

On 18/09/2021 at 00:45, Marisawright said:

More than just "niche professions".   From what I've seen, if you're in the corporate world (i.e. you work in an office), then you'll be worse off in Australia, especially if you work in Sydney or Melbourne (because of the very high cost of housing compared to earnings).  I understand that some IT professionals are worse off here, too, but I'm not clear if that's just for certain specialisations. 

@CatMoose, I assume you've been checking the rental market, wherever you're planning to move back to.  The housing market has gone really stupid in many parts of Australia.

I am working on the costs - very much so because it's a big move.

Please also remember than in the UK, I will pay almost $200 a month in council tax, national insurance out of my salary, MOTs are law and if your car fails you will need to fix it before you drive it, I also pay $30 a month simply for owning a TV. Petrol is also much higher than in Australia as are our trains.

There's a reason I was managing to save money back in Australia and not the UK.

Finally, you'll need to consider the amount of work available in your profession. Much healthier in Oz.

[CatMoose]

On 18/09/2021 at 00:25, Wanderer Returns said:

 

Having returned to Australia fairly recently (18 months ago), I would say this is a very valid point. Salaries are better for most professions in Australia, and significantly better for menial workers. The UK minimum wage is currently £8.91/hour, which equates to a little under $17/hour. In Australia it's $20.33. However, casual staff here receive 25% loading which takes it over $25/hour. My wife's a housekeeper in one of Caloundra's resorts and receives $27/hour, so a solid $10 more than she'd be paid in the UK as a cleaner on a zero-hours contract. I'm at top of the teaching pay-scale and would receive a salary of £41,604 if I was back in the UK, which equates to around $79k. I'm currently on $97k, and next year that will go up to $102k when I reach the Senior Teacher classification. Then there's superannuation. In the UK the employer contribution is 3%, compared to 10% here in Australia.

I'm sure there are niche professions, consultancy etc, that pay more in the UK, but comparing apples to apples most people will earn more over here, and depending on their lifestyle, will be significantly better off.

Brexit has cut off the supply of cheap European labour that has been subsidizing the British economy for the last two decades, so businesses will simply need to pay better rates to retain workers. This can only be good news for the low-skilled British worker.

Brexit has battered us here (financially and culturally). The pandemic has also (obviously) severely affected the economy while the wealthy get wealthier from it. I'm done, if I can work out the logistics, I'm back to Oz in a heartbeat.

[Wanderer Returns]

3 hours ago, CatMoose said:

Not at all ... given what I would earn in Melbourne, accommodation is a) more readily available and b) more affordable than in the UK

In 2018 we rented a very nice bungalow in rural England for the equivalent of $1,200/month. Last year we rented a similar property here in regional Queensland for $2,100/month. If you are convinced renting will be cheaper for you here in Australia then you must be living in a very expensive part of the UK. As Marisa said, there's a significant lack of affordable property throughout most of Australia and that is driving rental prices through the roof.

[CatMoose]

2 minutes ago, Wanderer Returns said:

In 2018 we rented a very nice bungalow in rural England for the equivalent of $1,200/month. Last year we rented a similar property here in regional Queensland for $2,100/month. If you are convinced renting will be cheaper for you here in Australia then you must be living in a very expensive part of the UK. As Marisa said, there's a significant lack of affordable property throughout most of Australia and that is driving rental prices through the roof.

Rural England? So did you commute? How much did you spend on petrol? How much council tax and insurance did you pay? How much of a single person's salary do you think is left over from renting here in England??

I'm not going to to get into debates here because when I moved to Oz last time I learned that much of what is on here is nonsense. Likewise, the fearmongering I was subjected to regarding how difficult I would find things when I returned to the UK was also garbage. 

Might have made myself clearer by saying the affordability of renting in Oz is so much better for me given salaries and other outgoings. 

And leave it at that.

[Wanderer Returns]

12 hours ago, CatMoose said:

Rural England? So did you commute? How much did you spend on petrol? How much council tax and insurance did you pay? How much of a single person's salary do you think is left over from renting here in England??

I'm not going to to get into debates here because when I moved to Oz last time I learned that much of what is on here is nonsense. Likewise, the fearmongering I was subjected to regarding how difficult I would find things when I returned to the UK was also garbage. 

Might have made myself clearer by saying the affordability of renting in Oz is so much better for me given salaries and other outgoings. 

And leave it at that.

Granted; you may well be better off in Australia if your salary is significantly higher than your outgoings. That's certainly true for us, and one of the reasons why we returned.

I would also agree that there's plenty of misinformation on this forum (as there is on every forum), but there are many helpful members who are very informed. I quoted those figures based on my own experience, and it certainly wasn't an attempt at fearmongering. Comparing like for like, renting in Australia is more expensive - but you can believe otherwise if you wish. I'm sorry if you're unhappy with your current situation but that's no reason to be antagonistic.

Getting back on track, one of the things I would miss about Oz (if I wasn't here already) is the general optimism that pervades Australian society. It's the complete opposite to Britain.

[Marisawright]

18 hours ago, CatMoose said:

Please also remember than in the UK, I will pay almost $200 a month in council tax, national insurance out of my salary, MOTs are law and if your car fails you will need to fix it before you drive it, I also pay $30 a month simply for owning a TV. Petrol is also much higher than in Australia as are our trains.

I agree about the trains.  The cost of rail travel was a massive shock when we returned to the UK.  We had been imagining a retirement full of non-stop travel, but the rail prices soon put paid to that idea!   

There are council rates in Australia, it's just that if you're renting, the landlord pays them.  So you're still paying them, the cost is just built into your rent (one of the reasons it is higher).  

I don't know how it works in SA, but in most states, you need a "roadworthy' once the car is a certain age, same as the MOT.  It's illegal to drive without one.  

You won't pay NI in Australia but I'm sure you know that you'll pay superannuation instead, which is a much bigger percentage of your salary. 

Rents are a funny beast.  Outside the capital cities, rents are usually high in proportion to the cost of property.  That's because there's very little capital growth, so landlords have to make all their money through the rent.  In the capital cities, a lot of investors buy property for negative gearing, which means the rents are lower in proportion to the cost of property.  How much lower varies according to the city, so information from people outside your destination city won't mean much.

 Realestate.com.au has suburb profiles which give you median rents

https://www.realestate.com.au/neighbourhoods?cid=cid:buy:left:homepg:neighbourhoods

[MacGyver]

3 hours ago, Wanderer Returns said:

Getting back on track, one of the things I would miss about Oz (if I wasn't here already) is the general optimism that pervades Australian society. It's the complete opposite to Britain

I agree with this very much, it's one of the reasons I was drawn to Australia many years ago. It was also noticeable on our return to Scotland and contributed to us ping-ponging back to Australia quite quickly a few years ago.

[Paul1Perth]

19 hours ago, Wanderer Returns said:

In 2018 we rented a very nice bungalow in rural England for the equivalent of $1,200/month. Last year we rented a similar property here in regional Queensland for $2,100/month. If you are convinced renting will be cheaper for you here in Australia then you must be living in a very expensive part of the UK. As Marisa said, there's a significant lack of affordable property throughout most of Australia and that is driving rental prices through the roof.

I read in the weekend paper that Sydney and Melbourne City apartment rents are down 9% this year and there's an oversupply. I was surprised as all I've heard is about property price increases.

Seems a lot of people want to move to the suburbs and get a house and working from home has led to a lot doing exactly that.

[Marisawright]

13 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

I read in the weekend paper that Sydney and Melbourne City apartment rents are down 9% this year and there's an oversupply. I was surprised as all I've heard is about property price increases.

No, that's not the reason. 

Apartments in Melbourne CBD and Sydney CBD are normally occupied by (a) overseas students, (b) tourists (AirBnB), and (c) retired people.  Obviously, since the overseas students and tourists have almost completely disappeared, there's a massive glut, and that's what has brought prices down.

Young professionals - the ones currently moving out to the country, rather than just to the suburbs - typically live in the inner ring of suburbs around the CBD, which are the trendy burbs. 

 

 

[Paul1Perth]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

No, that's not the reason. 

Apartments in Melbourne CBD and Sydney CBD are normally occupied by (a) overseas students, (b) tourists (AirBnB), and (c) retired people.  Obviously, since the overseas students and tourists have almost completely disappeared, there's a massive glut, and that's what has brought prices down.

Young professionals - the ones currently moving out to the country, rather than just to the suburbs - typically live in the inner ring of suburbs around the CBD, which are the trendy burbs. 

 

 

You could have a healthy discussion with the reporter who wrote the article then.

Whatever the reason I was surprised. I think there's an oversupply in Perth City and also thought too many apartments were being built in Scarborough. However the ones in Scarbs are fetching top dollar and selling quickly, mostly off the plan. My son rents there. Rentals are hard to come by and expensive. He's had his 2 bed unit about 18 months and he's hoping they don't put his rent up. He thought it was expensive when he first moved in, it's looking pretty reasonable now.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Paul1Perth

[Johnny Kash]

On ‎22‎/‎09‎/‎2021 at 15:21, MacGyver said:

I agree with this very much, it's one of the reasons I was drawn to Australia many years ago. It was also noticeable on our return to Scotland and contributed to us ping-ponging back to Australia quite quickly a few years ago.

I remember being back in Edinburgh, first time in the Uk in about 4 years, day after landing.    Gets to the bar and I go to the barman 'hows it going'?   to be met with a blank stare followed by awkward silence.   Suddenly I realise Im not in Oz, remember we don't do small talk, and its, 'yeah sorry, two pints please'.    

The bus drivers just seemed angry. 

I also worked in the public sector in Scotland which was the epitome of negativity most of the time.

Edinburgh still a great city despite all of this

[Tulip1]

1 hour ago, Johnny Kash said:

I remember being back in Edinburgh, first time in the Uk in about 4 years, day after landing.    Gets to the bar and I go to the barman 'hows it going'?   to be met with a blank stare followed by awkward silence.   Suddenly I realise Im not in Oz, remember we don't do small talk, and its, 'yeah sorry, two pints please'.    

The bus drivers just seemed angry. 

I also worked in the public sector in Scotland which was the epitome of negativity most of the time.

Edinburgh still a great city despite all of this

Possibly more of a misunderstanding of what you were saying.  If you’d have said how are you or how are things the response may have been different.  I know Australians say hows it going and I understand that means how are you/how are things but I wouldn’t have known that before I had family move there.  If you actually think about it hows it going doesn’t make a lot of sense (hows what going?)  nothing wrong with it and I quite like it but if you’ve never heard it before you may have a blank face wondering what ‘it’ is.  I’ve never been to Edinburgh so I’m not aware they don’t do small talk.  I have close family living in Scotland though and have never found that to be the case.  Maybe it’s an Edinburgh thing.  

[Cup Final 1973]

22/09/2021 at 03:02,  Wanderer Returns said: 

Getting back on track, one of the things I would miss about Oz (if I wasn't here already) is the general optimism that pervades Australian society. It's the complete opposite to Britain
 

i think that must depend on where you are in the UK.  We’ve moved back to Yorkshire and have found everyone very welcoming.  Bus drivers always smile round here!

[Wanderer Returns]

12 hours ago, Cup Final 1973 said:

 

22/09/2021 at 03:02,  Wanderer Returns said: 

Getting back on track, one of the things I would miss about Oz (if I wasn't here already) is the general optimism that pervades Australian society. It's the complete opposite to Britain
 

i think that must depend on where you are in the UK.  We’ve moved back to Yorkshire and have found everyone very welcoming.  Bus drivers always smile round here!

Northerners have always been friendlier than Southerners, and generally folks who live in the countryside have a little more time on their hands for a chat. But when you switch on the TV in the UK it's all gloom and doom, whether it's the news or some grim drama series, or another documentary about global warming and how mankind is doomed. I think it affects people's state of mind over there - along with the weather.

[Johnny Kash]

16 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

Possibly more of a misunderstanding of what you were saying.  If you’d have said how are you or how are things the response may have been different.  I know Australians say hows it going and I understand that means how are you/how are things but I wouldn’t have known that before I had family move there.  If you actually think about it hows it going doesn’t make a lot of sense (hows what going?)  nothing wrong with it and I quite like it but if you’ve never heard it before you may have a blank face wondering what ‘it’ is.  I’ve never been to Edinburgh so I’m not aware they don’t do small talk.  I have close family living in Scotland though and have never found that to be the case.  Maybe it’s an Edinburgh thing.  

I hadn’t gone that deep into the actual turn of phrase to be honest.

In general I did find that in Scotland once you get out of the cities folk were warmer, friendlier and had more time for people they might not know.  Possibly the case all over the uk to be fair.

The first time a random aussie in Adelaide said ‘gday’ just walking past in a suburb threw me a bit but quickly it becomes normal in a good way

[Wanderer Returns]

8 hours ago, Johnny Kash said:

I hadn’t gone that deep into the actual turn of phrase to be honest.

In general I did find that in Scotland once you get out of the cities folk were warmer, friendlier and had more time for people they might not know.  Possibly the case all over the uk to be fair.

The first time a random aussie in Adelaide said ‘gday’ just walking past in a suburb threw me a bit but quickly it becomes normal in a good way

I grew up in a small village where everyone knew everyone else, and most folks greeted each other as they passed by in the street. That seems to have died a death in the UK at some point. Personally, I blame tin-shakers and the 'can you spare a quid for a cup of tea' brigade, making people more defensive when approached by strangers. When I arrived in Brissie in 2004, people still said 'hello' in the street, which I felt was like a breath of fresh air.

[newjez]

11 hours ago, Wanderer Returns said:

I grew up in a small village where everyone knew everyone else, and most folks greeted each other as they passed by in the street. That seems to have died a death in the UK at some point. Personally, I blame tin-shakers and the 'can you spare a quid for a cup of tea' brigade, making people more defensive when approached by strangers. When I arrived in Brissie in 2004, people still said 'hello' in the street, which I felt was like a breath of fresh air.

I still live in that village.

Personally I don't like other people very much and I try to avoid them if at all possible, but unfortunately my wife is very chatty. Sometimes when we go for a walk it can take us twenty minutes to leave our street, and it's not a long street. Everyone is out and about, and everyone is chatty. 

It's been worse with covid as a lot of people live alone, and they seem to crave that contact with other people.

Every time I try to get something done in the front garden some old biddy will stop for a chat, asking about the roses or whatever. It's a chore, but I do feel obliged to speak to them at least for a little bit.

[newjez]

On 24/09/2021 at 07:21, Tulip1 said:

Possibly more of a misunderstanding of what you were saying.  If you’d have said how are you or how are things the response may have been different.  I know Australians say hows it going and I understand that means how are you/how are things but I wouldn’t have known that before I had family move there.  If you actually think about it hows it going doesn’t make a lot of sense (hows what going?)  nothing wrong with it and I quite like it but if you’ve never heard it before you may have a blank face wondering what ‘it’ is.  I’ve never been to Edinburgh so I’m not aware they don’t do small talk.  I have close family living in Scotland though and have never found that to be the case.  Maybe it’s an Edinburgh thing.  

I was with a girlfriend about a year or two after I'd been in the UK, and we were buying something in a shop, can't remember which one. I was chatting with the shop assistant about whatever, and finished off with "see you later".

I'm quite tuned into people, and I could tell the girlfriend wasn't happy about something. I asked her if she was ok.

She said, "what was all that about then?"

I said "what?"

She said, "you and that shop assistant, why are you going to see her later?"

I said I'm not.

She said you just said you were

Relationship didn't last long.

[DIG85]

On 24/09/2021 at 16:21, Tulip1 said:

Possibly more of a misunderstanding of what you were saying.  If you’d have said how are you or how are things the response may have been different.  I know Australians say hows it going and I understand that means how are you/how are things but I wouldn’t have known that before I had family move there.  If you actually think about it hows it going doesn’t make a lot of sense (hows what going?)  nothing wrong with it and I quite like it but if you’ve never heard it before you may have a blank face wondering what ‘it’ is.  I’ve never been to Edinburgh so I’m not aware they don’t do small talk.  I have close family living in Scotland though and have never found that to be the case.  Maybe it’s an Edinburgh thing.  

I’m sorry but this is nonsense. “How’s it going?” is certainly not an uncommon greeting in the uk and one would have to be a complete dolt to misunderstand it, even if you had lived in a cave all your life and never heard it before.

[Richie2022]

On 18/09/2021 at 10:07, ramot said:

Out of interest my UK son is paid a London salary, he lives in Bristol and pre covid worked between Bristol and London, travelling to London several days a week, working from home at present. My other son lives and works in Brisbane. Both highly qualified, Brisbane wage better than London wage. Obviously Only one example, but it surprised us. 

Bristol housing doesn’t come cheap either in comparison to Brisbane.

What I feel a lot of people in the UK don't realise when they move to Australia is that you can't compare wages to wages. The reason for this is the high cost of living in Australia. Food, electronics, furniture etc are all more expensive than the Uk. To register my car here nothing fancy costs $850 per year and we have 2 cars which are a necessity because public transport here is useless. Housing is incredibly expensive especially here to buy. Almost everything is sold by auction which pushes the price up, unless you plan to build which has its own costs and risks. Also being so far from USA, Europe etc makes holidaying there incredibly costly. You also get slightly less holidays here with work getting 4 weeks whereas i believe you get a little more in the UK. There is also a massive drug problem in Australia and it has plenty of crime. Anyone looking at Australia with rose coloured glasses id say just really think about what it is you want. If you also haven't guessed currently living in Melbourne and planning on moving back to the UK with my wife and Daughter.

[jimmyay1]

Cost of living?  not that bad here despite all the talk, 

Residential rents have barely increased in Melbourne in the past 10 years. high immigration but high supply and development of property has meant there are a range of choices for tenants. 

  i could find a 2 bed apartment for rent at the same price as my first rental when i moved here 10 years ago, around $450 a week. 

i also own an investment property and the rent has not increased since it was built in 2015 - middle ring suburb  - commutable to city, quite nice 3 bed , 3 bath townhouse  - $570/ week. 

it may be different in other cities but for renters, melb has never been ( relatively speaking ) cheaper to start out in.  

cost of living in aus i firmly believe is  comparable with the uk now for food and groceries and consumer items like electronics - if you want to compare with same quality.  i was back in the uk in april and whilst you can still get the bargain basic bad quality groceries at lowish prices, of course, but  prices have really gone up if you want quality meat, fruit etc, it was around same price as melbourne. 

i also just bought a 75 inch samsung frame tv , the cost was $3500 all in here - in the uk it is roghly $3,500 pounds. we checked and compared.  it was also cheaper than same model available in the USA! 

we have found this before with some electrical goods, computers etc.  

and salaries are generally higher than uk. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by jimmyay1

[Blue Flu]

On 09/07/2022 at 03:44, Richie2022 said:

What I feel a lot of people in the UK don't realise when they move to Australia is that you can't compare wages to wages. The reason for this is the high cost of living in Australia. Food, electronics, furniture etc are all more expensive than the Uk. To register my car here nothing fancy costs $850 per year and we have 2 cars which are a necessity because public transport here is useless. Housing is incredibly expensive especially here to buy. Almost everything is sold by auction which pushes the price up, unless you plan to build which has its own costs and risks. Also being so far from USA, Europe etc makes holidaying there incredibly costly. You also get slightly less holidays here with work getting 4 weeks whereas i believe you get a little more in the UK. There is also a massive drug problem in Australia and it has plenty of crime. Anyone looking at Australia with rose coloured glasses id say just really think about what it is you want. If you also haven't guessed currently living in Melbourne and planning on moving back to the UK with my wife and Daughter.

A massive drug problem (in manufacture) indeed which is not being addressed in fact one could say being facilitated. It has become mainstream in WA at least. I'd say about three years it really took off. Next door started at about eight thirty this morning  and just packed it in for awhile (five PM) Housing is close to impossible in Perth. We've been looking as need to leave inner city, but to find an area which is not doing drugs in some shape or form, is not an easy task. Finding a half decent house at a reasonable price being the other issue. We have a very healthy amount to put down as well. 

Yes prices have gone up considerably. We are not alone here though so cannot blame Perth for that. It has certainly make me reconsider a move to UK though. 

 

[beketamun]

On 09/07/2022 at 05:44, Richie2022 said:

What I feel a lot of people in the UK don't realise when they move to Australia is that you can't compare wages to wages. The reason for this is the high cost of living in Australia. Food, electronics, furniture etc are all more expensive than the Uk. To register my car here nothing fancy costs $850 per year and we have 2 cars which are a necessity because public transport here is useless. Housing is incredibly expensive especially here to buy. Almost everything is sold by auction which pushes the price up, unless you plan to build which has its own costs and risks. Also being so far from USA, Europe etc makes holidaying there incredibly costly. You also get slightly less holidays here with work getting 4 weeks whereas i believe you get a little more in the UK. There is also a massive drug problem in Australia and it has plenty of crime. Anyone looking at Australia with rose coloured glasses id say just really think about what it is you want. If you also haven't guessed currently living in Melbourne and planning on moving back to the UK with my wife and Daughter.

They used to use a 2.2 ratio for cost of living taking into account exchange rates, but that is changing now.  If you want the same UK convenience of everything on the doorstep it does not exist anyway outside city centres because it's a bloody big place, but the amount of stuff you can do cheaply, or for free, is impressive.  You just have to adapt, and the "average" person has obviously made and saved a lot more money in Australia and enjoys a higher quality of life.  It just depends how you measure that and what you're comfortable with.

I dont recognise the 4 week leave thing, I've never seen so many people regularly not turn up to work and the public holidays are stupendous, plus you can purchase leave and then take months off.....my missus has 2 years of personal leave and 22 weeks of "holiday" leave in the bank. That's either a career break with full pay, personal leave on full pay, or early retirement and long service leave.  The flexible arrangements are a response to the remoteness and the desire to travel further, which you can often not do over a few weeks. You have to work to earn it though, you don't get it as a new starter without putting the effort in.   We don't miss out on holidays either, we try and go overseas at least once a year, and do about 7 long weekends or coast trips. The rest of the time, if you get to live in a good place with good weather, then holidays aren't the necessity they are in the UK (just looking at the airport queues and people desperate to get away to sit on a decent beach for a few weeks). 

USA flights are very reasonable from Australia, but the USA is becoming more expensive for both British and Australians due to depreciating currency against the USD.  Try SE Asia, try Japan, try India, even the middle east if you like that sort of thing on a direct non-stop flight...timezones are not as bad, prices are good on an Australian wage, and they're probably more culturally enriching than retrenching to the UK or USA which are not going to teach you anything that you don't already know about.

Edited July 11, 2022 by beketamun

[beketamun]

On 09/07/2022 at 05:44, Richie2022 said:

What I feel a lot of people in the UK don't realise when they move to Australia is that you can't compare wages to wages. The reason for this is the high cost of living in Australia. Food, electronics, furniture etc are all more expensive than the Uk. 

Are electronics more expensive here?  Last time i checked the UK was more expensive, especially for things like TV's and computers, they're far closer to the place of manufacture here.

Here's virtually the same Samsung TV.....4595 UKP, or 4995AUD?  The UK is about 60% more, and they have lower wages anyway...thus far more expensive ?

https://www.harveynorman.com.au/samsung-85-inch-qn85b-neo-qled-4k-smart-tv.html

https://www.currys.co.uk/products/samsung-qe85qn85batxxu-85-smart-4k-ultra-hd-hdr-neo-qled-tv-with-bixby-alexa-and-google-assistant-10236983.html