jimmyay1

i feel you . its also a "living in Sydney" issue as much as anything. No doubt about , it quality of life has decreased for many except the already pretty asset rich, over the last few years, it is a worldwide phenomenon but particularly pronounced in places like Sydney. I love visiting Sydney, and go there a few times a year.... but would i want to live there and have the daily grind to contend with as well? Probably not, unless it was for a year of "living in Sydney" just for the experience. With the big increase in the demand for / cost of rental, or house prices, and other factors, it has become a bit of a rat race like London, albeit with an amazing lifestyle IF you have several million $. The only people i know are happy in Sydney, but they have no mortgage and live in the eastern suburbs. The pressure is then somewhat off, access to the parts worth living near is easy, and they don't need to climb the greasy pole or work all hours - which kind of defeats the point for many of living there if all you do is work, particularly if you are a "lifestyle migrant" like many Brits are. Why make life more difficult for yourself? Other cities are easier. Its a bit of a myth that Sydney's the only place where you can have a good life. In terms of whether you find somewhere "boring" or not i think this depends to an extent on your outlook on life, and what you can find pleasure in, and how you can relate to people. Culturally, compared to say European cities or the UK, i have always found Sydney to be relatively conformist / immature in terms of it's youth subcultures / outlook on life. So many people look like clones of each other, dress the same, same haircut / talk about same schools, money, way past the age where people do that in say the UK. This isn't AS prevalent in other cities in Aus, which have more alternative scenes, and are genuinely more relaxed, but it is a little bit of an Australian city thing. Because many people don't leave home until their late 20s/30s and stay living with parents, go to local Unis. continue to hang out with school friends, it lends itself to a tendency towards a more inward looking, and "conformist" culture (with exceptions of course). When i first started working in Melbourne, i found all the talk of "what school did you go to" quite baffling (after 15 years working in professional office jobs in London where i don't think i'd heard anyone's schooling been mentioned once) ....... until i realised the men in my Melbourne office and, many of the ones in senior position had been to the same couple of private schools, lived in pretty much the same suburb as they'd gone to school in, had been to the same Unis, in Melbourne and had lived at home whilst they had studied, were mostly all friends, all followed the same football team etc, and helped recruit others with the same background etc. It was pretty much a closed clique, and felt like i'd walked into a time warp. This in the Melbourne office of big international company too - not some small suburban office. I had to just laugh it all off and ignore, move on and find my own space . You're never going to win or really join in fully in a situation like that, you just have to find your own groove and not give a **** about the other rubbish. It means as a migrant, to an extent you might always be viewed as a bit of an outsider, and have the few struggles which come with that. How you adapt to that is key to making a go of it. As for climate.......as a resident of Melbourne it's certainly not hot all the time and we get very little of the east coast humidity. In fact the biggest beef by many about Melb in terms of weather is that it is pretty changeable and cool to mild for a good chunk of the year.

Exactly. I’ve always been a tradit kind of person but nowadays to me it’s such a blast having Christmas - and then a long summer. Too good

the first Christmas in 2012 was weird - 2 months after we’d arrived, living in Melb in a rental, far from family and friends, no furniture, odd seasons. I shed a few tears on Christmas Day. However we now smile at the memories of the strangeness of the first year and what we did, and have embraced and created our own “no real set rules” Christmas which is very freeing. We mostly do something different every year - never bound by many rules. Obvs we put a lovely tree up , presents etc. There’s just the two of us usually so no pressure to prepare or expect a particular meal for guests - we did do a turkey breast last year alongside some lamb but it was the first time as we had guests, and actually we needn’t have bothered l. despite having a barbecue in our house, we’ve never used it - at all - since we moved in 3 years ago! In fact I think I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of barbecues I’ve done at home in the last 10 years We make sure we use quality ingredients but aren’t fixed to any dish. we’ve had mousakka one year, had a beef pie one year, we’ve done lamb cutlets, one year I roasted a picked pork, another we had some salmon - and a couple of years whilst on road trips at Christmas we’ve had an esky full of cheese and cold cuts, tapas style stuff. this year we decided to have baked lamb chops and potatoes for Christmas lunch. Fabulous butcher in Prahran market. For starters we did dips and crudities, including some nice smoked salmon, fresh fruit for desert and a slice of Christmas cake. Some really good Aussie wine always features. I usually get a few treats like special uk cheeses or a pork pie or bottle of beer. we love just doing what we like, and love Christmas in Oz, it’s the start of the summer and usually go on a road trip just after Chrissy for a week or two. the only christmas cards we got were from estate agents who manage our rental properties. Seems most people have stopped sending them ( I do still send to friends and family even to uk every year and despite visiting family pretty much every year I still don’t get any back!). went back to uk for a couple of christmases since I’ve lived here. Meh. It’s nice feeling pre Christmas there and the day itself, but as soon as you get past the 26th what I’d forgotten is that everyone sinks into a boring winter depression, skint and watching the rain. Found other than enjoying seeing family I was very glad to return to Australia and the summer.

I just bought a 75 inch Samsung Frame for around $3,500 dollars - the same model in the UK goes for about 3,500 pounds. much cheaper in oz.

Cost of living? not that bad here despite all the talk, Residential rents have barely increased in Melbourne in the past 10 years. high immigration but high supply and development of property has meant there are a range of choices for tenants. i could find a 2 bed apartment for rent at the same price as my first rental when i moved here 10 years ago, around $450 a week. i also own an investment property and the rent has not increased since it was built in 2015 - middle ring suburb - commutable to city, quite nice 3 bed , 3 bath townhouse - $570/ week. it may be different in other cities but for renters, melb has never been ( relatively speaking ) cheaper to start out in. cost of living in aus i firmly believe is comparable with the uk now for food and groceries and consumer items like electronics - if you want to compare with same quality. i was back in the uk in april and whilst you can still get the bargain basic bad quality groceries at lowish prices, of course, but prices have really gone up if you want quality meat, fruit etc, it was around same price as melbourne. i also just bought a 75 inch samsung frame tv , the cost was $3500 all in here - in the uk it is roghly $3,500 pounds. we checked and compared. it was also cheaper than same model available in the USA! we have found this before with some electrical goods, computers etc. and salaries are generally higher than uk.

i guess the winters in Canada are brutal and long and people are snowbirds that fly for warmth in the winter as you mentioned. coming from the uk, which is much more temperate admittedly i felt the same....... however unless you're a huge beach or water sports fan, you may actually spend less time there than you think, as you do tend to adjust and get rather fussy with regard to what conditions you think are "beach weather" . Nice to have that luxury i guess In Vic you generally don't see many people on the beaches much outside of December to March, as it's perceived as being too cold ; the water isnt warm ( bay water is currently sat at 10 degrees - gets to around 19/ 20 in the summer) . The ocean itself south of Aus near Geelong and Melb is around 18 degrees in summer - it's refreshing. Sure, it's all relative - you do acclimatise. We actually tend to take our summer holidays away from Victoria to enjoy warmer water and more reliable weather.

Actually my only real regret was moving in late 30s & i should have done it 10 years earlier to be honest as it would have probably been a bit easier to adapt perhaps. Moving aproaching middle age - we had to adjust to a different kind of life from the uk in terms of the social aspects . It is hard to make new long term friends. fortunately we do have a few now. They are other migrants from other countries - which is of course totally fine and absolutely love spending time with them and go on trips together, stay at each others houses, even been overseas together. but we actually don't have any native born Australian friends at all after 10 years. at the beginning i felt sad about this but it is not at all uncommon a story so don't feel bad about it if it doesn't happen. I second the post which said take up a sport (or any other social activity hobby or interest that gets you out and socialising with people even casually, ). even if the folk you'll be with won't be mates, at least not right away, it gives you a focus to life and something to be " involved in" and generally makes life more pleasant. You do learn to become extremely independent / self reliant as a family so as long as your relationship with your partner is rock solid and you can work as a team that is the main thing. Don't assume your family or friends will come to visit in Oz much unless all the stars align - in most cases they simply won't bother to at all as its too much effort or too expensive or too far. even if they can afford to do it regularly. they probably won't. And .......you will also have to make the effort when you go back to the uk to meet up with them. You can travel 10,000 miles just to pop in to see them .... they will of course be glad to see you, it'll be like you've just left the room....... but don't expect many of them to make a special effort to get in touch and may even be hesitant to drive an hour or two to see you whilst you're there. It's just the way it is. get comfortable and at ease with these concepts as soon as you can and it's less stress all round.

lol - "the Mandela effect"

Its interesting how our perspective changes over time depending on our current reference points and our experiences. The first time i went on hoiday to the USA in 2000, travelled to the West Coast, California and how exotic and different from the uk it obviously was, went back to California in 2018 and actually felt more "like home" i.e Aus and i see why so many Aussies do feel quite at home there. The gum trees and climate, mediterranean / australian plants everywhere, the large freeways, car culture, and so on. All things which have become familiar by living in Australia for 10 years. It doesnt feel nearly as "foreign" as it did, visiting there from the Uk. On the other hand ,visiting New York over Halloween 2019, the culture and feel of NYC ( which i've also visited before i moved to Aus and since ) reminded me in many ways of being closer to London or Europe in culture, lifestyle, aspirations, rather than Australia, and actually made me miss the UK a bit and felt more like "that" home. In some ways, some Americans particularly in the North East, are more like Brits than they are like Aussies or Californians in their worldview and attitude. The North East also has at least a couple of hundred years head start and more European history than Australia does - and this is quite noticeable to me now when i visit East Coast US, in a way that it wasn't, when i lived in the Uk. Another reason we once can "never go back" once you've emigrated and spent time living abroad. Even if you physically move back , the experience of living overseas absolutely changes your perceptions, and perspective.

How funny. When i emigrated in 2012, i took two small cuttings off a treasured Jade plant that had itself been a cutting off a much larger plant my grandmother had owned - it had sentimental value. I wrapped the tiny cuttings stems in my luggage amongst clothes and they survived the journey ( hardy things jades as the cuttings can survive easily without water for days and days if needed ) and have thrived, i've had them planted out in the garden, dug up and moved several times with me around Melbourne since. But no, you're not meant to bring any plant material over. At all. but there was no way they weren't coming with me. i gave the main plant away to friends as the cuttings were enough to start fresh and still keep the memory and link alive.

I noticed on my last couple of viists to the uk in 2018 and 2019 i felt more Aussie in some ways than in times past (i have been in Aus 10 years, am in mid 40s ) , just the general way people speak and carry themselves, it felt a bit alien to begin with rather than the familiar of " ah, i'm home". Always happy to get on a plane back to Aus now, and that it is home. The first few years weren't easy at all and of course I still miss uk based family, but otherwise very settled now. Some things i notice with frustration when i go back to the uk after being in Aus ( specifically Melbourne - food , cafe culture, hospitality etc) and go somewhere like Manchester or even London it all seems a bit second rate and not "together" and poor quality in comparison - or at least there's more of a search for quality rather than the overall standard being high. It always seems so crowded and many areas run down too . Aus is a heap load more shiny - and clean - in general. Also find now that i increasingly get frustrated with the indirect British way of talking about everything, having to read people's minds to know what they are thinking, not upfront, the perceived "class" behaviours e.g which supermarket you go to FFS. that's sad and tedious but it permeates uk life and all races and ages, even if they dont see it themselves. . I still love British humour of course.

Mostly Bayside from Hampton through Sandringham to Black Rock and Half Moon Bay. The bottom ones are down at Chelsea / Bonbeach and Seaford. Don't agree that either the sand or the bay is generally "dirty". We've dolphins. whales ( last weekend) all manner of bird and sea life. The beaches are pretty clean and also mechanically regular cleaned. The water is often crystal clear particularly in summer. I avoid St kilda beach. Anywhere South of Middle Brighton is pretty awesome in terms of cleanliness. After storms like anywhere it gets churned up, but to say we have a city of 5 million people around its shores and a river flowing into it, i think it's pretty good. If you want the ocean its only an hour's drive. I really love the bay. its moods and light are absolutely fantastic and ever changing. the sun sets over the bay from bayside suburbs and its honestly as good as santorini at times. Sorry to derail the thread!

more rubbish melbourne beaches

Yeah the beaches are really rubbish in Melbourne

I think this Vic outbreak ( and i hope it spreads a little more tbh - dont care what people think of me for saying so ) is the kick up the backside the lazy , complacent Australian public and useless politicians need to realise they cannot hide from this thing, and the only way out of it is through vaccination and staged reopening, which should happen as soon as possible. I am normally a liberal inclined voter but the federal governments woeful handling of this pandemic - the states have done most of the work - is jaw dropping. Sco mo' s recent and continued pandering to the knuckle dragging parochial thick bogan element, to grub for votes by talking of keeping borders shut indefinitely whilst deflecting from the abject failures and mixed messaging around the vaccine are shockingly cynical. And grossly negligent. Hopefully the imperative to get the vaccine into people will now come to the fore. Thousands of lives are at stake. This is a matter of national emergency. Lockdowns cost jobs and billions per week. The public have been badly served , but many , in their comfortable complacency, are almost as much to blame as the pollies. 3.5 million have died worldwide from covid and they want to go vaccine shopping? in the face of infinitesimally small risks compared with the covid which they will, without a vaccine, inevitably catch. Stunning ignorance - people simply don't know what they are talking about but now are all vaccine experts and getting their medical cues from random anti vaxxers on twitter rather than the health department. i despair sometimes. Did these people learn a single thing at school? PS I'm already jabbed.

Honestly, Manchester is a bit of a dump compared to most Australian cities, it's no contest. Its a shame. I grew up in the North of England. When i go back i just find Mcr depressing, small and no where near as exciting and vibrant as Melbourne. Overall standard of food out and about is awful, parts look so dilapidated and others, more and more like the third world. Its dirty, people look depressed and angry. i could go on. When you've been away 10 years and return its a shock. The difference in growth and dynamism over recent decades is quite something . Melbourne wasnt much bigger than Manchester in 1980 , both cities populations were around 2.5 million people. Fourty years later Melbourne is now twice the size of Manchester and has provided a shed load more opportunities for people to get on in life than the North West has. Could say the same about Scotland - that's even more pronounced. Scotland's population in 1980 was 5 million whilst Victoria's was only about 3 million. Victoria now has 6.75 million people and an economy double the size with GDP per head 50% higher. Scotland has a million fewer people, still around 5 million and those remaining are much more badly paid than they were in comparison. Big changes and not for the better in the uk.

i liked all of those things, and lived in London for 15 years and really enjoyed it. Not being from London though it amazed me the ignorance of people who think London is the UK and don't go anywhere else - their world is often restricted to zones 1 & 2 and they are as parochial in their own way as many queenslanders. You do get past the London age though - it's a hard city to live in with a pretty poor quality of life all round, congested and polluted and unless you are extremely wealthy that's why most people move on .

You can think of yourselves how you like. Fact is when you open your mouth most Aussies you don't know, will think you're British and see you as a foreigner. I am a citizen now and have been for several years. Can't believe i've lived her now nearly 10 years. I definitely "think" more Australian about certain things and when i go back to the uk , certain things jar a bit and i roll my eyes. Kind of a hybrid now. !!

A lot of the attraction for fairly everyday working and middle class British migrants 20-30 years ago was that they could buy into the classic "aussie lifestyle" suburbs - reasonably well off areas in the main metropolitan centres or other places with a really good quality of life and plenty of well paid jobs. It was definitely a big draw, many bought in without mortgages, and could genuinely transition to a better lifestyle than they had in the uk. Many coming now feel superficially better off ( bigger houses, better weather) but very long commutes, congestion, long working days, being based in outer suburbs miles from anything much other than a characterless strip mall - and certainly not the "dream", pool, trendy area etc achievable by the average person in times past. You only need to look at the type of suburb and home featured on WDU for the average migrant , and then match it with your experience of the lifestyle and locations the better off people in Syd and Melbourne live, to see there is a big and growing disconnect between expectations of Brits who wish to emigrate and the reality of where they will end up being based and what they can afford. People want the pool, garden, short commute, nice high street etc. The reality is that so many people in these cities now live in apartments or townhouses with no back yard of much size and very few will be able to afford the space etc to have pools unless they live far out or in a cheap, less desirable area. Whilst the outer suburbia in the UK and close to the countryside areas are expensive, in Australia, outer suburbs are generally seen as poor suburbs with low amenity and full of relatively less well off first generation Indian, Chinese and, inceasingly, British migrants. The desirable inner areas have become hard to afford unless you are very well off. Perhaps in years to come the exchange rates, house prices in uk compared to oz, etc will make it more worth it again.

I know what you’re trying to say but the reality is not really comparable. - everyone knows and accepts when moving across the world there will be extended periods apart from family. however what makes this very different is that no one would have moved envisaging they’d be forcibly locked away from family for potentially years with no possibility of return even under urgent circumstances- which has been the case for many thousands rejected from leaving. in addition, what makes so terrible for people is there’s no roadmap or any kind of plan or statement about how or when the situation might change - just threats of punishment and ever more frankly abusive rhetoric from some state premiers about those with families overseas. it’s completely different and a million miles away from the situation anyone signed up for. And it’s unique to Oz, not being able to legally leave without explicit permission and paperwork, even if you want to.

There's been quite a lot of talk about a universal Covid vaccine recently, in development. A lot of promising work and studies. Its been suggested it may be available as soon as the end of 2021. Finding the Universal Coronavirus Vaccine - The Atlantic

I feel for may British people who were thinking of emigrating to Australia and for whom even the cheaper states and areas are probably now forever out of reach in terms of buying a house. For anyone wanting to move to Aus the high cost of housing is going to become a real disincentive to bothering if they already live in a reasonable but better value area overseas.

I'm under 50 and have had the vaccine already as family work in healtcare sector so i qualify. Had no hesitation whatsoever to be given Astra Zeneca. Its a great, safe, very effective and low risk vaccine. People are useless at assesing risk. Some of the same people saying "relax, i'm waiting for pfizer". Yet they will take risks which present more than 1 in 250,000 risk of a clot or 1 in 1 million threat of death which is what Astra is, every day of their week just by jumping in their car or taking part in a whole host of everyday activities ( go climb a ladder for instance?). Seriously, anyone over 50 - who now qualify for a jab, should be absolutely beating down the door of the vaccination centres to get jabbed. I did it as soon as i could in April. Australia needs to be vaccinated as a national priority so we can re--open. Everyone should be doing their bit - it's your civic duty to help others - and it is crazy that vaccine centres are empty here in Oz. Just hopeless. There are loads of OAPs who are the most at risk saying theyll wait til later to get a vaccine?? Madness. There'll be an outbreak and everyone will panic. My second jab is in July. Once i'm fully immunised, no one will stop me leaving the country to see relatives in the UK - i will just go via NZ if need be. The outward travel ban is probably illegal in any case. I have plenty of leave, having been locked up for over a year and it's worth the risk (threats of prison for leaving the country - just read that back and tell me this is on any planet normal - yet its what the health minister in Aus has put in place for Australians who dare to try and leave the country without permission - East Germany and North Korea come to mind as pretty much the only countries that have done this) . Europe and the rest of the world are going to be pretty open in the next 3 months and most of the Western World will have completed their vaccination programmes or at least be very well advanced. Little old Aussie will hide under the blanket forever refusing vaccines ? And with a populace cheering on politicians who are putting laws on the statute books which allow for the imprisonment of people who try and leave the country??? Saying people shouldn't be going to see families overseas for funerals and elderly parents requiring help are no exception? Really? I know many in Aus would close the borders forever but no thanks. We should all be very angry about the incompetence and cruelty of some of the current rules and make our views known to authorities whenever we can.

I’ve seen people say it takes 50 minutes or an hour from Mt Eliza to the CBD but if you are travelling at anything like rush hour it’s much much longer than this and daily would be a massive pain. If you can find a well paid job locally, would be much better.