Moving home with older kids

[Quoll]

2 hours ago, LKC said:

It was almost a relief when I found out that other people felt like this too. I spent years blaming myself for not trying hard enough to make it work, although I know that I did. It wasn't that there was anything wrong with the place or the people, it is a beautiful country and I met some wonderful people, but I just couldn't shake that feeling of it not being my place. It was something deeper than there being things that I didn't like about Aus or preferred about the UK, if that makes sense?

Knowing that you're not Robinson Crusoe really does help! 

[Amber Snowball]

At my last job in Australia I worked with a kiwi and she had been in Australia for years, her adult children were there and she never saw herself returning to NZ for family and financial reasons but she also said Australia is a lovely country but it’s not my country. 
A greek lady also the same. Australia has given us everything but it’s not my country. 
Both fine because they could travel and visit as they could afford. Not sure how they feel now they can’t make that regular trip home  this year or when the time comes and age/health prevents them from visiting at all. No sanity hit then.

[Marisawright]

6 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Hypothetical question but, if you had no close family in England, and close family in Australia, but nothing binding you, would you go back to England to live on your own?

I can answer the question in reverse.  You may remember that a few years ago, I tried going back to the UK to live.  Not because I was even slightly homesick (never ever have been) - it just seemed like a logical thing to do, because my husband's parents and brother had passed away and I have no family here, and we both love holidaying in Europe.  So we thought, "Instead of living in Oz and having a 24 hour flight every time we want to go on holiday, why don't we live over there?"   The bonus is that I have three sisters, seven nieces and nephews and miscellaneous cousins over there too, so we'd have family around again.

Living there reminded me that I'd always felt like a square peg in a round hole growing up in the UK, and I felt like that again.  There were several other factors involved, but for me, that was the reason I wanted to return to Australia.  I'm much happier living in Oz in spite of having no family here.  I just feel like I "fit". 

[ramot]

1 hour ago, Amber Snowball said:

At my last job in Australia I worked with a kiwi and she had been in Australia for years, her adult children were there and she never saw herself returning to NZ for family and financial reasons but she also said Australia is a lovely country but it’s not my country. 
A greek lady also the same. Australia has given us everything but it’s not my country. 
Both fine because they could travel and visit as they could afford. Not sure how they feel now they can’t make that regular trip home  this year or when the time comes and age/health prevents them from visiting at all. No sanity hit then.

I have no intention of returning to live in the UK after nearly 28 years away, first as an expat, before moving to Australia in retirement with no immediate family here. Two of our children followed, and also have no desire to move back. Our oldest will never leave UK, (actually it’s his wife who wouldn’t) and our only grandchildren are in UK. Shows how different your offspring are, but the two youngest spent more time in Brunei with us, and couldn’t settle back in UK.

I can relate to people who say ‘it’s not my country’ if it’s not where you have grown up, I am really happy here, but I grew up in a different country, so my background will never be Australia, but like many immigrants when I moved here it felt right and  I knew I wanted to live here It is now my home. I happily live in the now, not the past.

Yes we miss our grandchildren, and pre covid we went back most years for 3 months. Obviously unrealistic now, as in our mid to late 70’s until who knows when, but that doesn’t make me want to return to live there. Australia is home, we only go to UK because our son and grandchildren are there, otherwise we wouldn’t bother, 

[Parley]

Some people who have moved back would of course never admit that it was a mistake.

That takes guts.

[starlight7]

I guess we are lucky in that now all our immediate and expanding family is here in Australia.  We started off with 2 kids when we emigrated, had 2 more born here and they have multiplied and multiplied such that we feel part of a dynasty now. Only cousins live in the UK now and a brother who we never saw anyway. Makes a difference I am sure because the ties back have gone now our parents have all died. It was hard when they were living because they didn't get to see their grandchildren that often and partings at the airport were dire.One of the worst things was when they used arrive and how they had aged because we hadn't seen them for a while- I always wanted to cry but kept it zipped so it didn't upset them. It is strange being first generation Aussies but there are a lot of us about!

[Tulip1]

32 minutes ago, Parley said:

Some people who have moved back would of course never admit that it was a mistake.

That takes guts.

That’s true I think but exactly the same as many who move to Australia (or any country) would never admit they made a mistake going and would just put up with things. It’s never a mistake to try different things or to try and make yourself happier but when it doesn’t go to plan some would worry that others would see it as a failure and just battle on pretending everything is fine.  

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, Parley said:

Some people who have moved back would of course never admit that it was a mistake.

That takes guts.

As Toots said, the same goes for a lot of people who aren’t happy in Australia but are too proud to go home because that would mean admitting they made a costly mistake 

[MARYROSE02]

7 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I can answer the question in reverse.  You may remember that a few years ago, I tried going back to the UK to live.  Not because I was even slightly homesick (never ever have been) - it just seemed like a logical thing to do, because my husband's parents and brother had passed away and I have no family here, and we both love holidaying in Europe.  So we thought, "Instead of living in Oz and having a 24 hour flight every time we want to go on holiday, why don't we live over there?"   The bonus is that I have three sisters, seven nieces and nephews and miscellaneous cousins over there too, so we'd have family around again.

Living there reminded me that I'd always felt like a square peg in a round hole growing up in the UK, and I felt like that again.  There were several other factors involved, but for me, that was the reason I wanted to return to Australia.  I'm much happier living in Oz in spite of having no family here.  I just feel like I "fit". 

I remember you were back in England, in my home town too - Woolston perhaps? I never actually lived in Southampton but on The Waterside as they call it, on the western side of Southampton Water.

Looking back now, I went to England in 1983 after four and a half years in Sydney and stayed for six months. I wish I'd stayed there now! But that is 2020 me talking, and what would I have done after my parents passed away.

Perhaps I felt like a square peg wherever I was, whether in England or Australia, until I arrived in Surfers Paradise! But then again, what happens if my brother moves on somewhere else? Will I have established myself strongly enough here or will I want to return to Sydney?

I have reached the point where I know a few people to say hello to in the Surf club and to sit with them, and to know a few other people around too, but not friendships the way I had in Sydney. It is only five months that I have been here too. I have no desire to return to Sydney at the moment.

[Marisawright]

53 minutes ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Perhaps I felt like a square peg wherever I was, whether in England or Australia, until I arrived in Surfers Paradise! But then again, what happens if my brother moves on somewhere else? Will I have established myself strongly enough here or will I want to return to Sydney?

The solution might be to make a concerted effort now to establish yourself.  Have you looked into the U3a in your area (University of the 3rd age)?  https://www.u3abroadbeach.com/

 

[Amber Snowball]

8 hours ago, ramot said:

I have no intention of returning to live in the UK after nearly 28 years away, first as an expat, before moving to Australia in retirement with no immediate family here. Two of our children followed, and also have no desire to move back. Our oldest will never leave UK, (actually it’s his wife who wouldn’t) and our only grandchildren are in UK. Shows how different your offspring are, but the two youngest spent more time in Brunei with us, and couldn’t settle back in UK.

I can relate to people who say ‘it’s not my country’ if it’s not where you have grown up, I am really happy here, but I grew up in a different country, so my background will never be Australia, but like many immigrants when I moved here it felt right and  I knew I wanted to live here It is now my home. I happily live in the now, not the past.

Yes we miss our grandchildren, and pre covid we went back most years for 3 months. Obviously unrealistic now, as in our mid to late 70’s until who knows when, but that doesn’t make me want to return to live there. Australia is home, we only go to UK because our son and grandchildren are there, otherwise we wouldn’t bother, 

Yes and I think there are plenty of people around who feel exactly as you do. I was only answering in the context of this thread to show that there are others who don’t feel this way. A sort of solidarity post, you are not alone for the OP. Having felt like you for 10 years and then suddenly not feeling like that I found this forum really helped me reading that it wasn’t just me. 

[MARYROSE02]

10 hours ago, Marisawright said:

The solution might be to make a concerted effort now to establish yourself.  Have you looked into the U3a in your area (University of the 3rd age)?  https://www.u3abroadbeach.com/

 

I did have a look before after you mentioned it the other day. There are three campuses available on the Gold Coast I think.  I just looked at your link and see classes start in February. 

I have my OU degree course to do too. Next week is Workshopping when we have to share a draft of our first assignment, which is a short story of about 900 words I think, plus a 300 word reflection. We have to critique some of our fellow students' work and then submit the assignment on 30 December. That is a bit of work to do too. I have a draft of my story, or parts of my story anyway,  Then there is my Japanese and I'm going to bed in a minute not having done my 15 mins yet!

So I'm not short of things to do but it would be nice to extend my circle of friends. I was out to dinner with friends up from Sydney tonight and I showed one of them my story and played a recording of me reading part of it. She surprised me by liking the story, and more importantly, telling me that my voice, far from the dull monotone I hear, was actually OK.

[MARYROSE02]

On 17/12/2020 at 08:40, Parley said:

Some people who have moved back would of course never admit that it was a mistake.

That takes guts.

"We all make mistakes",  as the Dalek said climbing of the dustbin. 

Seriously,  a new place, not necessarily Australia, can "grow" on us without us being aware until we get back "home". I remember years ago reading about a couple who emigrated to New Zealand, were both homesick, resolved to go home but they had to save up the money to do so, and by the time they were able to go home, they realized that NZ had "become" their home.  I think little things like bird songs and plant life which had seemed so alien when they first arrived, had "grown" on them.

My theory is that this happens to some, NOT all people who come to Australia, and it is not until they get back to the UK that they realize they really did like it in Australia. 

Then again, speaking from my own experience, each time I have moved, whether to the UK or to OZ, it has been like emigrating all over again and it takes time to settle in?

This happened in a mild kind of way when I came up to Surfers Paradise.  I noticed it with the Gold Coast Bulletin, the local paper. When I first came here I leafed through it and thought "What a load of provincial rubbish." Now I love reading it because I have "gone native" and relate to its content.

I don't know about admitting to mistakes. I suppose there may be one or two who posted on here about how they could not wait to leave but then returned and are too embarrassed to come back on PIO and admit it, but who cares?

[Marisawright]

8 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

I did have a look before after you mentioned it the other day. There are three campuses available on the Gold Coast I think.  I just looked at your link and see classes start in February. 

I have my OU degree course to do too.

The OU is good for keeping your mind active, but the U3A is better ifyou want to make local friends.  In fact I'm not sure why it's called a university at all, because (unless you do languages) there's very little study involved.  You attend classes but there isn't much, if any, homework required.  

[MARYROSE02]

19 hours ago, Marisawright said:

The solution might be to make a concerted effort now to establish yourself.  Have you looked into the U3a in your area (University of the 3rd age)?  https://www.u3abroadbeach.com/

 

PS, I was thinking about how my days unfold and today, so far, 1025, I woke horribly early again at 5 am, and after a bit of reading I went out for a walk about 630 for an hour, hour and a half, and then had breakfast with my brother in the cafe below our unit.

Now, it's 1030 and I'm mucking about on the computer, wasting time on PIO when I should be studying, and around 1 pm we will go down for coffee and I might walk around the block, then it's about time for our arvo siestas, in my case to make up for waking early. Then it is time to shower and go out for dinner, pub, maybe another walk along the beach. And the day is over! And I've still not done my Japanese lesson!

[MARYROSE02]

4 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

The OU is good for keeping your mind active, but the U3A is better ifyou want to make local friends.  In fact I'm not sure why it's called a university at all, because (unless you do languages) there's very little study involved.  You attend classes but there isn't much, if any, homework required.  

Funny, I was just adding a PS to my reply. Going down in the lift a guy got in with a strange pair of shoes and I asked him what they were? "Playing golf." He was off for an early round. Golf, bowls, even croquet, I could try one of them. I saw four old guys out on their bikes at Budd's Beach, all wearing the same shirt, so perhaps a club. (Possibly the old guys were all younger than me.) Maybe some kind of volunteering might be the thing to do too. So many people are lonely, especially this year.

I was also looking for "community colleges" but apart from U3A I could not find anything. I'm sure they have community colleges in Sydney. I did cooking at one, learning German too. Plus they have the WEA courses. Possibly, if the units aligned with the OU, I could go down to Griffith Uni and do an OU unit "On campus"

This is something I might do: http://www.southporttoastmasters.org/what-is-toastmasters/

And of course there is Meet Ups too. I know there is a Japanese group BUT for all my enthusiasm here, I don't know if I can actually be bothered!

[Marisawright]

3 minutes ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Funny, I was just adding a PS to my reply. Going down in the lift a guy got in with a strange pair of shoes and I asked him what they were? "Playing golf." He was off for an early round. Golf, bowls, even croquet, I could try one of them. ...

I was also looking for "community colleges" but apart from U3A I could not find anything. I'm sure they have community colleges in Sydney. I did cooking at one, learning German too. Plus they have the WEA courses. Possibly, if the units aligned with the OU, I could go down to Griffith Uni and do an OU unit "On campus"

This is something I might do: http://www.southporttoastmasters.org/what-is-toastmasters/

And of course there is Meet Ups too. I know there is a Japanese group BUT for all my enthusiasm here, I don't know if I can actually be bothered!

I still think the U3a is a better choice than any of those suggestions.   I've spent most of my life socialising through dancing, which means that I've always been mixing with a wide variety of ages but the great majority are younger than me.  That may sound like a good idea, because you think it "keeps you young",  but I've finally realised that its not.  Once you get to a certain age (late 60's), you start to look like an old person, and the younger ones think of you as a good sport, but they equate you with their grandparents.  They're still kind and friendly but they're not going to be your friend.  A subtle difference but you can feel it!

'Since joing U3a, I've made more friends than I ever did in dance classes.  There's a lot of people my age (late 60's) and dealing with the same issues - adjusting to retirement, creaky joints, keeping the brain active - so you have something in common straight away.   Also it's cheap - one small annual fee and you can do a plethora of different courses and activities.  

[bug family]

On 17/12/2020 at 00:00, LKC said:

like your soul is just in the wrong place or something. Like your feet are walking on ground that you don't belong to, or you're in a place that you aren't part of in some way

This  

On 17/12/2020 at 00:00, LKC said:

I feel like I'm meant to be here or something. It's really hard to describe. It's a really deep sense of...everything.

And This

[Paul1Perth]

On 13/12/2020 at 08:09, Homesick1 said:

As I previously mentioned, my family & I were planning on moving home this year after 9 years of being in Aus. We were stalling due to covid & wanted to wait until things were under control before moving back to England as we figured it was going to make things too difficult for our kids. 
My daughter has now finished primary school & is ready to go into high school and so we were aiming to get back in the coming weeks (now that the vaccine is being administered we figured things should go back to normal in England very soon). However, my eldest (18 year old) has just been offered an electrical apprenticeship after almost a year without work & so it has completely taken us aback. We don’t want to take him away from this opportunity but it’s only a job (which he’s happy about but isn’t passionate about the work as it’s not his dream job!), & we’ve spent 9 years putting our feelings on the back burner in favour of doing what’s best for the kids. 
I have sunk into quite severe depression & can’t see a way out of this. I’m privately crying constantly as I feel so trapped. I won’t leave him behind as he still makes poor choices & I feel his friendship group is bad for him (he only started hanging out with this group this year & he has become quite secretive & distant - maybe just his age but I worry there’s more to it). 
We have lots of family in the uk & we’re all very close but my son doesn’t have friends there & his life is here. I can’t promise that he’ll find an apprenticeship there but he could go to college & meet people whilst waiting to find work. I doubt this is what he wants but I feel he’s still growing up & needs to figure out what it is that he wants to do.
He can’t afford to stay here alone on an apprentice wage but if we stay here any longer, my youngest will be in the midst of high school & so the cycle starts all over again. Both of our parents are getting older & I regret my decision to move here every single day as we have already missed out on so much. I can’t even bring myself to imagine the next year here let alone 4 more. 
How do we make sure everyone is happy without destroying our kids’ lives? 

You're not destroying your kids lives, the 18 year old will get new friends in the UK and if you're feeling that bad he'll just have to put up with it. He's likely to throw a wobbly and be nasty at his age, they don't know what they're saying half the time.

Pity about the apprenticeship as it's a great opportunity. My son is a sparkie, FIFO since his early 20's and earns serious money on an oil rig, along with good holidays. Unfortunately those opportunities don't exist in the UK but something might turn up for him.

No sense in staying if you're that depressed, the kids will just have to get used to the idea.

[Drumbeat]

On 18/12/2020 at 08:25, MARYROSE02 said:

PS, I was thinking about how my days unfold and today, so far, 1025, I woke horribly early again at 5 am, and after a bit of reading I went out for a walk about 630 for an hour, hour and a half, and then had breakfast with my brother in the cafe below our unit.

Now, it's 1030 and I'm mucking about on the computer, wasting time on PIO when I should be studying, and around 1 pm we will go down for coffee and I might walk around the block, then it's about time for our arvo siestas, in my case to make up for waking early. Then it is time to shower and go out for dinner, pub, maybe another walk along the beach. And the day is over! And I've still not done my Japanese lesson!

MaryRose, when I read your posts I always feel you are someone at peace with yourself 

[Paul1Perth]

On 14/12/2020 at 17:39, Wanderer Returns said:

That's very encouraging, and I'm glad things aren't as bad over there as I'd been lead to believe - thanks for putting it into perspective.

Much as though I love Australia and have adapted to life down under, like everyone I have my Achilles heel. Whenever I walk around the supermarkets here I cry a silent tear for Sainsburys, Tesco and the ready-meal aisle! 20 years ago there wasn't really much in it, but in recent years supermarkets have advanced so much in the UK and the choice is just amazing. The new Lidls are slaying it on price and quality!

Given the population density of the UK, it would probably have been very difficult to eliminate community transmission completely like they have over here, but they certainly could have handled it a lot better. The whole country is an island (well two islands) - surely that was a missed opportunity?

Fortunately we never got into the ready meal lark in the UK so are really quite glad Aus supermarkets aren't swamped with them. 

We had a nurse from the UK stay with us on an exchange job for a month. She was martied with 3 kids and my wife made a spag boll the first day she was here. She said she'd never eaten it and didn't know if she would like it. My wife fetched her some steak. Then we found out they lived on ready meals and she hadn't a clue or any inclination to cook. While she was here my wife showed her how easy it is to make decent meals. She wrote to us after she got back and her husband was well impressed when she cooked him spag boll.

My sis in law invited us round for a curry when we were there on holiday. We thought we would get a nice home made one but got one from one of the supermarkets.

[Paul1Perth]

On 15/12/2020 at 05:49, Wanderer Returns said:

We were living in Chesterfield, which has never been a particularly affluent town, but has never had a major problem with social deprivation either. What I noticed when we returned in 2015 was that most towns seemed to have a population of homeless folk, whereas a decade earlier they only seemed to be in major cities. I watched a documentary before leaving the UK which linked it 'county lines' - the infiltration of drug trafficking into more rural areas.

I'd agree that life in Australia is far from removed from 'Home & Away', and there are social problems in areas of every major city, but nothing that compares with the UK life.

Chesterfield is my home town. Loved growing up there TBH, went straight into an apprenticeship with the NCB when I left school, just about all my school friends did apprenticeships too, Markham works, Donkins, big Engineering companies. 

All gone though now, god knows what young kids leaving school do in that area now.

The town was always a bit rough but you knew people in every pub and nightclub you went in, specially if you played football as I did for years.

My Sister and nieces moved away as jobs and opportunities were disappearing for her kids. Took a long time to get the parents to move to nearer to her and the nieces.

Bit depressing when I was there last, a bit run down and still pretty rough to go out for a pint at night.

Moved away in my 30's to go back to uni for a computer science degree and then lived near Manchester when I finished that, before we emigrated.

A lot of the North of England has never recovered from Margaret Thatchers era.

[Paul1Perth]

On 15/12/2020 at 07:06, Homesick1 said:

Gosh, I’ve only been to Manchester a few times too & loved it! Maybe I’m wearing my rose-tinted spectacles again but England always feels so ‘honest’ whereas I feel like everything in Oz is so polished but hides a darker reality. Can’t explain it really, it’s just a feeling I get
We’d be moving back to Middlesbrough (once voted the WORST place to live in England ), so it is a stark contrast to the sunny Gold Coast. My kids know it well as we’ve been back every second christmas but I still think they’ll suffer a huge culture shock. 
I think the agony comes from knowing that I need to choose between my own happiness & that of my kids. It goes against all of my parenting instincts to put myself first but I know that my depression will affect them in the long run too so it feels like a lose-lose situation. 
Thank you again for all of your comments - it helps to be able to get so many different views on this. What would we do without the internet, hey?

Without all the contrasting views you get from people you don't know, that confuse you even more, you would have probably have decided to go back now.

The internet doesn't help at all, you just get everyone elses opinion and end up more insecure.

[Marisawright]

9 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

Fortunately we never got into the ready meal lark in the UK so are really quite glad Aus supermarkets aren't swamped with them. 

Were ready meals common when you left the UK?   I was amazed at the range when we were back in 2015, I'd never seen anything like it.  

The cheap ones are really unhealthy, full of fillers and salt and sugar.  I've read articles by experts, concernd that they're doing awful things to people's health.    You'd be hard pressed to find any actual meat in them!   However, the ready meals at the top of the range are very impressive.  I still miss the Marks & Spencer and Waitrose meal deals (which included main, a dessert or starter and a bottle of wine).  

I didn't expect to like them, as my tastes have changed so much since I left the UK.   I'm much more likely to make grilled or pan-fried meat or fish with salad or fresh veggies, or a stir-fry.  

[Freemantle]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Were ready meals common when you left the UK?   I was amazed at the range when we were back in 2015, I'd never seen anything like it.  

The cheap ones are really unhealthy, full of fillers and salt and sugar.  I've read articles by experts, concernd that they're doing awful things to people's health.    You'd be hard pressed to find any actual meat in them!   However, the ready meals at the top of the range are very impressive.  I still miss the Marks & Spencer and Waitrose meal deals (which included main, a dessert or starter and a bottle of wine).  

I didn't expect to like them, as my tastes have changed so much since I left the UK.   I'm much more likely to make grilled or pan-fried meat or fish with salad or fresh veggies, or a stir-fry.  

M & S and  Waitrose meals are gorgeous. My husband was staggered at the variety and quality when we were in the UK earlier this year. Without knowing the science behind the makings of them, I would imagine that they are far healthier than meals from Iceland, Tesco etc where its all about the pound rather than quality!. I have tried "ready meals" here and they are just vile!