How Long before you realised that Australia was or was not the place that you wanted to spend the rest of your days ?

[jimmyay1]

14 hours ago, Marisawright said:

They've been talking about Australia turning into America ever since the 1950's, apparently.   My husband (who grew up here) tells me that when he was a lad, all the TV programs, all the films and all the music on the radio was American, and he feels the American influence has lessened a lot since then.  It's funny sometimes to reminisce about some pop hit from the 1960's.  I think Lulu or Gerry & the Pacemakers had the big hit, but he remembers it as sung by an American. 

I don't think Australia has become more Americanised compared to other countries.   The whole world has got more globalised and American influence is in every country.  When I visited the US after I'd been living in Australia for about 10 years,  I found the US alien compared to both Australia and the UK.  And when we were back in the UK in 2015, the shopping malls there looked exactly like the ones in Sydney.  

 

Its interesting how our perspective changes over time depending on our current reference points and our experiences. 

The first time i went on hoiday to the USA in 2000, travelled to the West Coast, California and how exotic and different from the uk it obviously was, 

went back to California  in 2018 and actually felt more "like home" i.e Aus and i see why so many Aussies do feel quite at home there.

The gum trees and climate,  mediterranean / australian plants everywhere, the large freeways, car culture, and so on.  All things which have become familiar by living in Australia for 10 years.  It doesnt feel nearly as "foreign" as it did, visiting there from the Uk.  

On the other hand ,visiting New York over Halloween 2019,  the culture and feel of NYC ( which i've also visited before i moved to Aus and since )  reminded me in many ways of being closer to  London or Europe in culture, lifestyle, aspirations,  rather than Australia, and actually made me miss the UK a bit and felt more like "that" home.  In some ways,  some Americans particularly in the North East, are more like Brits than they are like Aussies or Californians in their worldview and attitude.  The North East also has at least a couple of hundred years head start and more European history than Australia does -  and this is quite noticeable  to me now when i visit East Coast US, in a way that it wasn't,  when i lived in the Uk. 

Another reason we once can  "never go back" once you've emigrated and spent time living abroad.  Even if you physically move back , the experience of living overseas absolutely changes your perceptions, and perspective.  

 

       

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by jimmyay1

[bug family]

10 hours ago, jimmyay1 said:

"never go back" once you've emigrated and spent time living abroad.  Even if you physically move back , the experience of living overseas absolutely changes your perceptions, and perspective.  

Literally you definitely can 'go back', but yes I agree you will take away from where ever you have lived what ever your experience has brought to you, living abroad you cannot help to compare and the experience can either be positive or negative or as most will find a bit of both, even though in some ways Australia has not worked out for me and I am firm in where is my home i will take some positives away when I leave here

[MARYROSE02]

I went back to England for 12 years. My advice to anyone going back to the UK (or for that matter to OZ) to live and work as opposed to visiting for a holiday is to be prepared for a possible period of adjustment.  It may not happen. You might descend the steps from the plane, kiss the ground,  and feel instantly and irrevocably "at home."

When I used to go back for holidays my parents were alive and they'd meet me at Heathrow and take me to my "home from home." That does not exist now. I don't know where I'd go if I went back.  I'd probably settle in OK but I'd have no family and I'd know nobody bar a couple of old friends.

On the other hand I came to the Goldie and it's like I've never been away. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by MARYROSE02

[MARYROSE02]

13 hours ago, jimmyay1 said:

 

Its interesting how our perspective changes over time depending on our current reference points and our experiences. 

The first time i went on hoiday to the USA in 2000, travelled to the West Coast, California and how exotic and different from the uk it obviously was, 

went back to California  in 2018 and actually felt more "like home" i.e Aus and i see why so many Aussies do feel quite at home there.

The gum trees and climate,  mediterranean / australian plants everywhere, the large freeways, car culture, and so on.  All things which have become familiar by living in Australia for 10 years.  It doesnt feel nearly as "foreign" as it did, visiting there from the Uk.  

On the other hand ,visiting New York over Halloween 2019,  the culture and feel of NYC ( which i've also visited before i moved to Aus and since )  reminded me in many ways of being closer to  London or Europe in culture, lifestyle, aspirations,  rather than Australia, and actually made me miss the UK a bit and felt more like "that" home.  In some ways,  some Americans particularly in the North East, are more like Brits than they are like Aussies or Californians in their worldview and attitude.  The North East also has at least a couple of hundred years head start and more European history than Australia does -  and this is quite noticeable  to me now when i visit East Coast US, in a way that it wasn't,  when i lived in the Uk. 

Another reason we once can  "never go back" once you've emigrated and spent time living abroad.  Even if you physically move back , the experience of living overseas absolutely changes your perceptions, and perspective.  

 

       

 

 

 

 

 

Some good points there. Once you've emigrated you change your mindset from the people who have never moved.  I envied those people who have never moved sometimes,  who have never uprooted themselves. 

As far as the "Americanisation" of Australia goes I don't care  I live here. End of. I retain some Pommie outlooks and ideas but I don't care or notice "difference". It's irrelevant to me. I love my English football but I like Aussie footy too. I don't think about English pubs, beer, curries, supermarkets, chocolate, being close to Europe, having four seasons. None of them matter. 

[beketamun]

21 hours ago, jimmyay1 said:

Its interesting how our perspective changes over time depending on our current reference points and our experiences. 

The first time i went on hoiday to the USA in 2000, travelled to the West Coast, California and how exotic and different from the uk it obviously was, 

went back to California  in 2018 and actually felt more "like home" i.e Aus and i see why so many Aussies do feel quite at home there.

The gum trees and climate,  mediterranean / australian plants everywhere, the large freeways, car culture, and so on.  All things which have become familiar by living in Australia for 10 years.  It doesnt feel nearly as "foreign" as it did, visiting there from the Uk.  

On the other hand ,visiting New York over Halloween 2019,  the culture and feel of NYC ( which i've also visited before i moved to Aus and since )  reminded me in many ways of being closer to  London or Europe in culture, lifestyle, aspirations,  rather than Australia, and actually made me miss the UK a bit and felt more like "that" home.  In some ways,  some Americans particularly in the North East, are more like Brits than they are like Aussies or Californians in their worldview and attitude.  The North East also has at least a couple of hundred years head start and more European history than Australia does -  and this is quite noticeable  to me now when i visit East Coast US, in a way that it wasn't,  when i lived in the Uk. 

Another reason we once can  "never go back" once you've emigrated and spent time living abroad.  Even if you physically move back , the experience of living overseas absolutely changes your perceptions, and perspective.   

You get the USA, it's 52 states are very independent and far more diverse than both Australia and the UK.    There are parts which resemble both, parts which resemble one or the other,  and many others which are alien to both due to climate, geography, environment, religion and the culture and living necessities that have evolved in the the last 300 years.  Cultures within cultures.

My BIL became American 20 years ago now, and worked in all 52 states in that time.  His biggest comment is that the Brits think all Americans are the same as them because they speak the same language, but the American way of thinking is completely different and the British cultural and social outlook is far closer to that of your average German than it is to that of your average American.  Let's not forget that America fought a war to get away from British influence, and Australian Federation was the start of breaking away from being told how Australia was to be managed from afar, whilst retaining the relationships to absorb or reject advice under self-determination.   

It's no different to those poms who come to Australia and don't make a success of it, putting the blame on "Australia" rather than realising that they may have just made bad choices in where they went, or how they decided to live there lives here, or even how suited they were to any sort of emigration anywhere in the world.  You fit in and make a success of it, or you may as well try somewhere else or go back to where you came from and try again there.

[Marisawright]

14 minutes ago, beketamun said:

My BIL became American 20 years ago now, and worked in all 52 states in that time.  His biggest comment is that the Brits think all Americans are the same as them because they speak the same language, but the American way of thinking is completely different and the British cultural and social outlook is far closer to that of your average German than it is to that of your average American. 

That is really interesting.  I've often mentioned that I felt like a fish out of water, growing up in the UK, and how I felt at home in Sydney (and now in Melbourne).  I also noticed, when we were living in Southampton, how alien that felt and how immediately comfortable I felt every time we went to Spain, Italy or France.  The massive influx of Italians and Greeks, which actually started long before the 1950s, had a huge impact on the culture in Sydney and Melbourne.  So maybe I'm more in sync with the Romance cultures than the German/British one.

[DIG85]

Just out of interest , since when did the US have 52 states?

[bug family]

3 hours ago, beketamun said:

It's no different to those poms who come to Australia and don't make a success of it, putting the blame on "Australia" rather than realising that they may have just made bad choices in where they went, or how they decided to live there lives here, or even how suited they were to any sort of emigration anywhere in the world.  You fit in and make a success of it, or you may as well try somewhere else or go back to where you came from and try again there.

My opinion of a 'success of it', maybe very different from yours or anyone else's, how do you define a success is it in material wealth or experience's had whilst living in a foreign land ?

 Also how long before you realise that you have made a bad choice, surely this can only been determined retrospectively, by which time it is to late,  is there a time limit on this? what if by that time your family are settled and years have gone by.

I have fitted in and have also made some great friends here, and trust me I am going back to where I came from,

It is no slight on Australia or disrespect to the people here, for me I came, I lived, I saw and preferred where I came from.......

[Marisawright]

17 minutes ago, bug family said:

My opinion of a 'success of it', maybe very different from yours or anyone else's

The definition of "success" is usually simple - you met your goal.   For most migrants, the goal is to move to a new country and adopt it as their home, for the rest of their life.  

I recall you were different, because you never intended it to be forever.  In hindsight, that was probably  the root of your problem - assuming that you and your partner would always be in the same mind about staying or going.  

[jimmyay1]

2 hours ago, DIG85 said:

Just out of interest , since when did the US have 52 states?

lol - "the Mandela effect"

[Parley]

2 hours ago, bug family said:

My opinion of a 'success of it', maybe very different from yours or anyone else's, how do you define a success is it in material wealth or experience's had whilst living in a foreign land ?

 Also how long before you realise that you have made a bad choice, surely this can only been determined retrospectively, by which time it is to late,  is there a time limit on this? what if by that time your family are settled and years have gone by.

I have fitted in and have also made some great friends here, and trust me I am going back to where I came from,

It is no slight on Australia or disrespect to the people here, for me I came, I lived, I saw and preferred where I came from.......

Do you really think you are going to be happy in England?

[bug family]

2 hours ago, Parley said:

Do you really think you are going to be happy in England?

No ...that is why i am moving to Wales lol ,

Yes absolutely, I love England (Scotland, Ireland, Wales) it is home, it is where I feel I belong, its my place on the planet 

why wouldn't I? .....interested to know what you think Parley

[Parley]

2 minutes ago, bug family said:

No ...that is why i am moving to Wales lol ,

Yes absolutely, I love England (Scotland, Ireland, Wales) it is home, it is where I feel I belong, its my place on the planet 

why wouldn't I? .....interested to know what you think Parley

Just think if you know your family (kids) are on the other side of the world it will play on your mind.

How can you deal with that? I think i would struggle with the guilt and separation.

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Parley said:

 I think i would struggle with the guilt and separation.

I can understand missing them, but why would he feel guilty?  The wife has made it clear that the marriage is well and truly over and he's got to start making a life for himself, and he is leaving them financially provided for.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Marisawright

[ramot]

3 hours ago, Parley said:

Just think if you know your family (kids) are on the other side of the world it will play on your mind.

How can you deal with that? I think i would struggle with the guilt and separation.

I might be possibly one of the  only posters who has lived on the other side of the world to our 3 children.

I know my circumstances were different as I was living in Brunei due to my husband’s job for 10 years, had split loyalties between being with  my husband and or children.  and if you think living in Australia is difficult because it’s not like UK, I can assure you Australia is a doddle  in comparison.

Until you have experienced living apart from your children, you have no idea how awful it is, and I was lucky that I could fly back to England  at almost no cost, as often as I wanted due to my husband’s job, so I could be there with them and not miss any important times.  That plus keeping a house there was the only way to make it bearable. I know your children will be full time with their mother, but from experience of the time I spent in UK on my own, it wasn’t easy being the equivalent of a single parent, can make you quite resentful of having the whole responsibility.

I know you are very unhappy in Australia Bug Family, and really wish you well and hope you get the job, but I know my husband really regrets how much time he missed of our children growing up, and he saw much more of them than I sadly think you will, as he saw them occasionally in UK, and they flew out to us for all their school and university holidays.

We made it work, but it took a lot of hard work and it wasn’t easy.

Edited March 10, 2022 by ramot

[tea4too]

3 hours ago, Parley said:

Just think if you know your family (kids) are on the other side of the world it will play on your mind.

How can you deal with that? I think i would struggle with the guilt and separation.

I think it can be incredibly difficult to step into the shoes of another person and know, for sure, how we would react to certain situations. Perhaps inevitably we apply our own feelings and life experience and make a judgement, but it's impossible to factor everything that others have to weigh, and because you or I would not choose to do something does not mean that others cannot do it successfully. Long periods of separation is something that many families deal with when a parent works away and, while I don't doubt how challenging that must be, it does not make it impossible to maintain family ties and relationships. Sometimes when options narrow we have to make the least worse choices and reading  Bug Family's posts I doubt he has come to any decisions lightly. T x

[Blue Flu]

On 08/03/2022 at 18:56, MARYROSE02 said:

I've not been the the US for 26 years and the UK for 13 years so I've got no reference points. Sitting on the seafront in Surfers Paradise I suppose it's closer to Waikiki than Bournemouth but it could be Benidorm.

Australia seems like a hybrid - American style roads but they drive on the left and the measurements are in metric. Part Westminster, part federal system of government. 

More California than Hawaii IMO. I don't see a Benidorm in any sense though. Does SP remind of there? Worse than I thought it may be if that the case.

[bug family]

1 hour ago, ramot said:

I might be possibly one of the  only posters who has lived on the other side of the world to our 3 children.

I know my circumstances were different as I was living in Brunei due to my husband’s job for 10 years, had split loyalties between being with  my husband and or children.  and if you think living in Australia is difficult because it’s not like UK, I can assure you Australia is a doddle  in comparison.

Until you have experienced living apart from your children, you have no idea how awful it is, and I was lucky that I could fly back to England  at almost no cost, as often as I wanted due to my husband’s job, so I could be there with them and not miss any important times.  That plus keeping a house there was the only way to make it bearable. I know your children will be full time with their mother, but from experience of the time I spent in UK on my own, it wasn’t easy being the equivalent of a single parent, can make you quite resentful of having the whole responsibility.

I know you are very unhappy in Australia Bug Family, and really wish you well and hope you get the job, but I know my husband really regrets how much time he missed of our children growing up, and he saw much more of them than I sadly think you will, as he saw them occasionally in UK, and they flew out to us for all their school and university holidays.

We made it work, but it took a lot of hard work and it wasn’t easy.

Thank you for sharing this insight Ramot, this must have been a very difficult part of your life, It will as I have said before be one of the hardest things I have ever done, leaving them makes me catch my breath,  and there are days and nights when I stop and think can I really do this.........but when I work out the options there are few for me to choose from and none of them work out to be satisfactory and without some pain,

I do know that it would be totally impractical and unfair to remove them from their lives, friends and school here and try and fit them into what is going to be a hectic new start back home,  The best I can do for them is to leave them here with their mum in their own house, going to the school they know, living in an area that is "home" to them, once i have set up (hopefully 6 months) then I will fly them over for their long school holidays, and hopefully in time, if they would like to, they can come and live in the U.K. with me, when I do eventually get a house i have told them there will be their own bedroom waiting for them. 

I sincerely hope that the job that I will be doing back home will allow me to concentrate on other peoples lives and therefore hopefully not leave me time to dwell on my own to much  

[bug family]

1 hour ago, tea4too said:

Sometimes when options narrow we have to make the least worse choices

Absolutely 100 % this ^^^^^^^

[Parley]

11 hours ago, Marisawright said:

I can understand missing them, but why would he feel guilty?  The wife has made it clear that the marriage is well and truly over and he's got to start making a life for himself, and he is leaving them financially provided for.

There is a lot more to being a dad than just providing money.

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Parley said:

There is a lot more to being a dad than just providing money.

Of course there is Parley, but I agree with @tea4too.  I think it's disgusting of you to put the guilts on @bug family when you should be well aware of the titanic struggle he's gone through to arrive at this decision.  Right now the last thing he needs is some idiot making nasty remarks.

[Parley]

10 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Of course there is Parley, but I agree with @tea4too.  I think it's disgusting of you to put the guilts on @bug family when you should be well aware of the titanic struggle he's gone through to arrive at this decision.  Right now the last thing he needs is some idiot making nasty remarks.

Well for your information, my father unexpectedly left our family when I was 13. I never saw him again in my life. So it is a personal issue for me.

[ramot]

1 hour ago, Parley said:

Well for your information, my father unexpectedly left our family when I was 13. I never saw him again in my life. So it is a personal issue for me.

I am aware of bug family struggle from his posts, and I understand where Parley is coming from as I experienced the same, but we must be careful that this thread doesn’t get out of hand, keep help/advice general and not loose sight of how sensitive an issue this is for some people, and not make it too personal.

The hard practicality of living on the other side of the world to your children is the reality of actually seeing them. I can’t remember how old BF’s children are? under a certain age they might be unaccompanied minors? . A 24 hr flight with at least one stopover (might be straight through from Perth?)  is hard and for most people,   daunting if not used to the trip. It’s also expensive. My daughter was only 13 the first she did did the trip on her own, to say I worried the whole flight is an understatement, and she was very used to flying.

Up until covid we went to UK annually to see our son and grandsons, unless we go this year, it will be 3 years now since we saw them. I know this makes depressing reading, but  that’s the reality of life getting in the way of your plans, 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by ramot

[bug family]

5 hours ago, Parley said:

Well for your information, my father unexpectedly left our family when I was 13. I never saw him again in my life. So it is a personal issue for me.

I am sorry to hear this about your dad, I am sure this is very personal for you and I appreciate everyone's input on this .

I am not leaving my children for good though, yes the logistics and heartache of seeing them every now and then will be difficult, but not impossible, I am their dad and I will move mountains see them again of that I am sure 

It is funny in life how history repeats itself, when i was a child we as a family moved to South Africa for a few years,  this was due to my father being attached to the south African government (for some reason) as an advisor from the Royal Air force (R.A.F).

At the time I was a bit younger than my daughter Emily's age (6 or 7 yrs old) and I remember my mum being terribly home sick, after a year or so my mum and younger sister left and went back to the UK to live, leaving myself and my brother with my dad, and then out the blue approximately about a year later my brother and I where told we where going back to the U.K.and put on a plane without my dad and traveled unaccompanied back to the UK......I did not see my dad again for a number of years.... no real explanation just that he was 'working for the RAF /  British government'.

He eventually returned to the UK some years later and life resumed as normal.............some twenty years later my dad sat us down one day and produced a letter and asked us to read it, the letter was from the then South African government, it was a pardon and exonerated him from any wrong doing and stated that if he wished to do so, he could return to South Africa without fear of arrest.

I admit it reads like a spy novel but apparently all them years without my dad had not been spent working, he was in fact arrested and first of all put in prison and subsequently put under house arrest, due to being found in possession of some sensitive documents (not sure who they where sensitive to the British or south African government)....he wanted us to read the letter as he always felt ashamed for leaving us all them years previously and wanted us to know why and that it was not his fault.........My dad sadly died some 15 years ago now (from an accidental event) .........I miss my dad and think of him often, he was a brilliant dad and a very interesting character.......the time spent apart from him all them years previously as a child did not cause me to resent him or diminish my love for him one bit  

[Possible?]

Thanks for sharing your story Bug, goes to show everyone’s journey is truly unique - and we all must follow our own path where possible. As for history repeating itself - it’s an interesting one … it seems you have been able to communicate w your children about whats happening and why - and that’s key. I am wishing you all the best in your new adventures