How Long before you realised that Australia was or was not the place that you wanted to spend the rest of your days ?

[Parley]

On 27/12/2021 at 22:22, newjez said:

It's a massive strawman argument from the right. The yanks have always said happy holidays because their holidays span from Thanksgiving to new year. It's just the right trying to make an issue out of something that never was.

The only people I've ever met who object to Christmas are the atheists, and even most of those aren't bothered.

But I do object to being drawn in to defend the royals when we know that they are ALL a bunch of inbred out of touch nobody's, who have no relevance or connection to any of our lives, and the sooner Australia gets rid of them the better.

It won't happen in your lifetime so chill out.

[Blue Flu]

1 hour ago, Parley said:

Australia has a constitution.

Completely different to a Bill of Rights. Few guaranteed freedoms in Australia. 

[DIG85]

3 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

Completely different to a Bill of Rights. Few guaranteed freedoms in Australia. 

That has always struck me too. 

Many people in the UK argue for a written constitution (or, to be pedantic, since parts of the UK's current constitution are in fact written, a "codified" constitution) in the belief that it would guarantee more freedoms. But one only has to look at the Australian constitution to see that it actually guarantees very few freedoms. The Australian constitution does not even protect freedom of speech. Yet the UK, for all the hoggledy-piggledyness of its constitution, appears, to me at least, to have far more guaranteed freedoms than Australia.

 

 

[Faastwalker]

Coming up to 10 years in Aus. Married an Aussie in 2007 that I met in UK. Had twin boys, moved here when they were around 1. Was apprehensive about moving. But was really up for it in the end. Moved to my wife's parents in Cessnock. That was a mistake. We lived near London, so going from there to Cessnock was a culture shock to say the least. Felt like I'd gone back in time. Struggled to find work, became quite depressed, turned to alcohol. Fking nightmare. Started working, wife fking useless with money. It was a struggle. We eventually split up a few years ago. Was going okay on my own. Then work contract ended a year ago. Looking for work now, but also thinking about home. Missing family and friends. Never really assimilated into this place. I like it in Newcastle. But I'm completely cut off here. Feel like I'm wondering through a boring dream. Stayed for my boys. They are 11 now and ex wife has a new partner who is an arsehole. He thinks I'm an arsehole. Not going to work out is it?! Maybe time to go home? I miss a lot in the UK. Family and friends, the buzz of the cities, the countryside, the culture. Aus is a place without culture, heritage or history. All of what it has is bad, boring and dull. And I don't really go much for the beach either. Fucking sand everywhere! English skin burning. Yeah, FUN!!

[Amber Snowball]

4 hours ago, Faastwalker said:

Coming up to 10 years in Aus. Married an Aussie in 2007 that I met in UK. Had twin boys, moved here when they were around 1. Was apprehensive about moving. But was really up for it in the end. Moved to my wife's parents in Cessnock. That was a mistake. We lived near London, so going from there to Cessnock was a culture shock to say the least. Felt like I'd gone back in time. Struggled to find work, became quite depressed, turned to alcohol. Fking nightmare. Started working, wife fking useless with money. It was a struggle. We eventually split up a few years ago. Was going okay on my own. Then work contract ended a year ago. Looking for work now, but also thinking about home. Missing family and friends. Never really assimilated into this place. I like it in Newcastle. But I'm completely cut off here. Feel like I'm wondering through a boring dream. Stayed for my boys. They are 11 now and ex wife has a new partner who is an arsehole. He thinks I'm an arsehole. Not going to work out is it?! Maybe time to go home? I miss a lot in the UK. Family and friends, the buzz of the cities, the countryside, the culture. Aus is a place without culture, heritage or history. All of what it has is bad, boring and dull. And I don't really go much for the beach either. Fucking sand everywhere! English skin burning. Yeah, FUN!!

welcome. Well that sounds like it’s been a bit of a mare!
Would you be able to maintain a good relationship with your boys if you moved? That’s very important I would think. Otherwise my sympathies, it’s really hard feeling like you are existing rather than living.

[Amber Snowball]

I have replied but my post is hidden awaiting approval. It might be because I have quoted you and you have sworn a bit! 
@faastwalker

Edited January 3, 2022 by Amber Snowball
Added OP

[Toots]

@Faastwalker sounds like you've had a pretty tough time of it for a few years.

Hope you make it back to the UK.

[Karl D]

5 hours ago, Faastwalker said:

Coming up to 10 years in Aus. Married an Aussie in 2007 that I met in UK. Had twin boys, moved here when they were around 1. Was apprehensive about moving. But was really up for it in the end. Moved to my wife's parents in Cessnock. That was a mistake. We lived near London, so going from there to Cessnock was a culture shock to say the least. Felt like I'd gone back in time. Struggled to find work, became quite depressed, turned to alcohol. Fking nightmare. Started working, wife fking useless with money. It was a struggle. We eventually split up a few years ago. Was going okay on my own. Then work contract ended a year ago. Looking for work now, but also thinking about home. Missing family and friends. Never really assimilated into this place. I like it in Newcastle. But I'm completely cut off here. Feel like I'm wondering through a boring dream. Stayed for my boys. They are 11 now and ex wife has a new partner who is an arsehole. He thinks I'm an arsehole. Not going to work out is it?! Maybe time to go home? I miss a lot in the UK. Family and friends, the buzz of the cities, the countryside, the culture. Aus is a place without culture, heritage or history. All of what it has is bad, boring and dull. And I don't really go much for the beach either. Fucking sand everywhere! English skin burning. Yeah, FUN!!

Wow, a lot to unpack there, sounds like UK is where you really need to be. 
 

This thread has fascinated me from the off, we are in the 143 queue, at first I thought that the 3 years or so quoted wait was eternity, now with more research and thanks to the visa thread I can see that we have at least a 10 year wait ahead of us. I’m now more than ok with that.

I am 53, my wife is 58. The reason is I want it to be our last ever move and the older we are if things are hard, I think we will stick it out through our age as much as anything. 

[bug family]

6 hours ago, Faastwalker said:

Coming up to 10 years in Aus

virtually the same length of time as me Faastwalker, would you consider going home? .....missing your boys would be very hard, that is the bit that I am going to struggle with when I leave, (my two are 13 and 9) but I have told them (and keep doing so) that I am not leaving them I am setting back up so they have another place to live in the world when they are older etc,

I also miss the culture, the Pubs, the old buildings, green fields and countryside ....I am also a bit controversial when it comes to the beaches here as I have mentioned a few times that the beaches are boring, dull and all look the same (just my opinion ).... to which I normally get some looks of utter disbelief... when I went back home to the UK for a holiday with my son (Daniel)  in 2019 just prior to the pandemic I took him to a couple of beaches, he could not believe how far the sea went out and also how much variety there was in the beaches, with some having caves and cliffs, rock pools, sand dunes, harbours, arcades, pubs, shops, bike paths etc, etc each one was different to the next.......

'wandering through a boring dream'...sums it up really well

[MARYROSE02]

2 hours ago, bug family said:

virtually the same length of time as me Faastwalker, would you consider going home? .....missing your boys would be very hard, that is the bit that I am going to struggle with when I leave, (my two are 13 and 9) but I have told them (and keep doing so) that I am not leaving them I am setting back up so they have another place to live in the world when they are older etc,

I also miss the culture, the Pubs, the old buildings, green fields and countryside ....I am also a bit controversial when it comes to the beaches here as I have mentioned a few times that the beaches are boring, dull and all look the same (just my opinion ).... to which I normally get some looks of utter disbelief... when I went back home to the UK for a holiday with my son (Daniel)  in 2019 just prior to the pandemic I took him to a couple of beaches, he could not believe how far the sea went out and also how much variety there was in the beaches, with some having caves and cliffs, rock pools, sand dunes, harbours, arcades, pubs, shops, bike paths etc, etc each one was different to the next.......

'wandering through a boring dream'...sums it up really well

Regarding the beaches, and I'm talking about Sydney,  every beach is different. Today I was at Bronte which has a surf beach plus a rock pool and an ocean swimming pool, a miniature railway,  a park behind the beach, and  cliffs at either end. Yesterday I was a Clovelly which is a narrow beach shaped like a "U" with a reef at the ocean end, concrete walkways on both sides with steps into the sea, and a small beach at the other end. It's got a pub overlooking the beach and,  like Bronte,  is on a coastal path linking Bondi with Maroubra and taking in several other beaches - Tamarama,  Gordon's Bay, Coogee, as well as a huge cemetery with wonderful views unappreciated by the residents. 

The day before yesterday I went to Nielsen Park, which,  unlike those other beaches I mentioned,  is in Sydney Harbour with a bush park and a  historic house, and views over to the north side of the harbour and as far as Manly. 

I don't consider any of those beaches "better" (or worse) than the English beaches from where I grew up - Lepe and Calshot in Hants if anyone knows them.  They are unique too, with views over the Solent to the Isle of Wight. I could happily spend English summers there and Aussie summers in Sydney.

I can imagine many Aussies scorning Lepe and Calshot with no surf or sand and lots of stones. Even though I know there are excellent surf beaches elsewhere in Britain,  eg Newquay in Cornwall which reminded me of Aussie beaches complete with Aussie lifeguards. 

I can, and have lived in both countries including 12 years back in England between my two Aussie sojourns. I've got no direct family left in England so there's nothing there for me. You can't talk to history or pubs or countryside or if you do they don't talk back. Maybe that's a good thing but not for me. 

[MARYROSE02]

On 02/01/2022 at 16:44, Blue Flu said:

Doesn't mean both countries possess  the same rights though. Britain has a written Bill of Rights. 

Yes, you are right,  but does that Bill or Rights mean that Britons enjoy greater freedoms than Australians? In the course of our daily lives,  I doubt many could discern a difference. Freedom of Assembly, Religion, Free Press, Trial by Jury, Habeas Corpus, Free Elections, etc, are common to both countries. 

[Bulya]

12 hours ago, Faastwalker said:

Coming up to 10 years in Aus. Married an Aussie in 2007 that I met in UK. Had twin boys, moved here when they were around 1. Was apprehensive about moving. But was really up for it in the end. Moved to my wife's parents in Cessnock. That was a mistake. We lived near London, so going from there to Cessnock was a culture shock to say the least. Felt like I'd gone back in time. Struggled to find work, became quite depressed, turned to alcohol. Fking nightmare. Started working, wife fking useless with money. It was a struggle. We eventually split up a few years ago. Was going okay on my own. Then work contract ended a year ago. Looking for work now, but also thinking about home. Missing family and friends. Never really assimilated into this place. I like it in Newcastle. But I'm completely cut off here. Feel like I'm wondering through a boring dream. Stayed for my boys. They are 11 now and ex wife has a new partner who is an arsehole. He thinks I'm an arsehole. Not going to work out is it?! Maybe time to go home? I miss a lot in the UK. Family and friends, the buzz of the cities, the countryside, the culture. Aus is a place without culture, heritage or history. All of what it has is bad, boring and dull. And I don't really go much for the beach either. Fucking sand everywhere! English skin burning. Yeah, FUN!!

Cessnock??  Explains everything…

[Parley]

17 hours ago, DIG85 said:

That has always struck me too. 

Many people in the UK argue for a written constitution (or, to be pedantic, since parts of the UK's current constitution are in fact written, a "codified" constitution) in the belief that it would guarantee more freedoms. But one only has to look at the Australian constitution to see that it actually guarantees very few freedoms. The Australian constitution does not even protect freedom of speech. Yet the UK, for all the hoggledy-piggledyness of its constitution, appears, to me at least, to have far more guaranteed freedoms than Australia.

 

 

Are you sure UK has free speech. I was under the impression that the clerics preaching ISIS hate speech on the streets was illegal.

[Blue Flu]

15 hours ago, MARYROSE02 said:

Yes, you are right,  but does that Bill or Rights mean that Britons enjoy greater freedoms than Australians? In the course of our daily lives,  I doubt many could discern a difference. Freedom of Assembly, Religion, Free Press, Trial by Jury, Habeas Corpus, Free Elections, etc, are common to both countries. 

Yes I would say that. Without a written Bill of Rights you rely on government to do the right thing. QLD was an example that springs to mind in what happened during your early days in Australia. Rights were cast aside and the result was all sorts of normal civic activities like protest could result in prison. Definitely no freedom of assembly. Voting is compulsory in Australia , so no freedom to withdraw from the 'democratic' process either without censure. Government refuses to implement a Integrity Commission, badly needed, as little in evidence. Free Press? Australia has probably the most press in the hands of the fewest people in the western world. Trial by Jury? All very well, but the judicial system caters badly for those without the resources (money) and prison is basically a place those unable to manipulate the system pay the price. 

 

[Toots]

22 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

Yes I would say that. Without a written Bill of Rights you rely on government to do the right thing. QLD was an example that springs to mind in what happened during your early days in Australia. Rights were cast aside and the result was all sorts of normal civic activities like protest could result in prison. Definitely no freedom of assembly. Voting is compulsory in Australia , so no freedom to withdraw from the 'democratic' process either without censure. Government refuses to implement a Integrity Commission, badly needed, as little in evidence. Free Press? Australia has probably the most press in the hands of the fewest people in the western world. Trial by Jury? All very well, but the judicial system caters badly for those without the resources (money) and prison is basically a place those unable to manipulate the system pay the price. 

 

Brings to mind the days of the Qld premier, Joh Bjelke Petersen.  When I first arrived in Australia I thought, "what the heck".  Qld was known as a police state because of his repeated use of the police force against street demonstrations and trade unions.   Two of his state ministers and the police commissioner were jailed for corruption offences.  

[calNgary]

On 24/10/2020 at 22:16, bug family said:

Just wondering, at what stage did you realise that Australia was the place that you wanted or did not want to spend the rest of your days ?

For me before I had even set foot in Australia I knew and voiced, that I would want to return home to the UK one day,  As a couple we set a goal of 10 years then we would return, with hindsight this was a bit naive I now realise this, as a lot can and has happened in the 9 years we have been here, for example, we are no longer living as a married couple (we are like best buddies and share the house still), my wife no longer would consider going back home, we also have two children now, where as we came with only one,  and finally all my wife's family now live here, so she is settled......but me...I will still go home one day of that I am sure, .........................what about you?

Just a quick reminder on what this thread is about as we seem to be going off on a tangent.

 Thanks

 Cal x

[FirstWorldProblems]

On 27/12/2021 at 22:57, Marisawright said:

You've just moved how many thousand miles for her and she can't manage 2 hours?  Who's she married to, you or the family?  

As Quoll says, the likelihood is that she ends up living in her family's pocket, and you become the third wheel.   That's difficult to deal with even if you  love where you live. If you're stuck in an environment you dislike too, you're facing a lifetime of misery. In your shoes I'd be pointing out that if you're going to compromise, she needs to meet you halfway.

I think you misunderstand or I haven't been clear.  She moved to the opposite side of the world for me so I could be near to my eldest daughter (who was then 2 years old) and she's spent 20 years here and counting.  She's the one who has done all the compromising.

When she returns to Sydney it's to be with family.  Not to be closer to family.  

I 100% get it and we'll find a way to make it work well

Edited January 5, 2022 by FirstWorldProblems

[Rallyman]

On 03/01/2022 at 17:29, Faastwalker said:

Coming up to 10 years in Aus. Married an Aussie in 2007 that I met in UK. Had twin boys, moved here when they were around 1. Was apprehensive about moving. But was really up for it in the end. Moved to my wife's parents in Cessnock. That was a mistake. We lived near London, so going from there to Cessnock was a culture shock to say the least. Felt like I'd gone back in time. Struggled to find work, became quite depressed, turned to alcohol. Fking nightmare. Started working, wife fking useless with money. It was a struggle. We eventually split up a few years ago. Was going okay on my own. Then work contract ended a year ago. Looking for work now, but also thinking about home. Missing family and friends. Never really assimilated into this place. I like it in Newcastle. But I'm completely cut off here. Feel like I'm wondering through a boring dream. Stayed for my boys. They are 11 now and ex wife has a new partner who is an arsehole. He thinks I'm an arsehole. Not going to work out is it?! Maybe time to go home? I miss a lot in the UK. Family and friends, the buzz of the cities, the countryside, the culture. Aus is a place without culture, heritage or history. All of what it has is bad, boring and dull. And I don't really go much for the beach either. Fucking sand everywhere! English skin burning. Yeah, FUN!!

Can see where you are coming from in regards to London - Cessnock they are poles  apart. 
we moved up this way from sydney and it took some time to adjust. 
sometimes you have to do what’s best for your own mental being. 
wishing you all the best for your future 
 

[MARYROSE02]

On 04/01/2022 at 18:13, Blue Flu said:

Yes I would say that. Without a written Bill of Rights you rely on government to do the right thing. QLD was an example that springs to mind in what happened during your early days in Australia. Rights were cast aside and the result was all sorts of normal civic activities like protest could result in prison. Definitely no freedom of assembly. Voting is compulsory in Australia , so no freedom to withdraw from the 'democratic' process either without censure. Government refuses to implement a Integrity Commission, badly needed, as little in evidence. Free Press? Australia has probably the most press in the hands of the fewest people in the western world. Trial by Jury? All very well, but the judicial system caters badly for those without the resources (money) and prison is basically a place those unable to manipulate the system pay the price. 

 

What's wrong with compulsory voting? And the Aussie system not being "first past few post" means that your vote is not wasted. I live in a federal Labor and State Greens seat neither of which I want to vote for so I can vote for other parties in the upper houses.

Just because the media is owned by two or three companies does not mean that it's less free. And with access to the internet you get plenty of other views whether you favour the Guardian or the Daily Mail both with free access.

Lefties HATE Murdoch without actually reading his papers or watching his news programmes and they would like to ban him.

Is the judicial system any different in the UK? Does it not favour the rich?

Definitely no freedom of assembly? Demonstrations are practically a daily occurrence. There's a mob in Canberra at the moment setting fire to Old Govt House and the Ratbag who started the fire has twice been released on bail and reoffended.

[MARYROSE02]

On 03/01/2022 at 17:29, Faastwalker said:

Coming up to 10 years in Aus. Married an Aussie in 2007 that I met in UK. Had twin boys, moved here when they were around 1. Was apprehensive about moving. But was really up for it in the end. Moved to my wife's parents in Cessnock. That was a mistake. We lived near London, so going from there to Cessnock was a culture shock to say the least. Felt like I'd gone back in time. Struggled to find work, became quite depressed, turned to alcohol. Fking nightmare. Started working, wife fking useless with money. It was a struggle. We eventually split up a few years ago. Was going okay on my own. Then work contract ended a year ago. Looking for work now, but also thinking about home. Missing family and friends. Never really assimilated into this place. I like it in Newcastle. But I'm completely cut off here. Feel like I'm wondering through a boring dream. Stayed for my boys. They are 11 now and ex wife has a new partner who is an arsehole. He thinks I'm an arsehole. Not going to work out is it?! Maybe time to go home? I miss a lot in the UK. Family and friends, the buzz of the cities, the countryside, the culture. Aus is a place without culture, heritage or history. All of what it has is bad, boring and dull. And I don't really go much for the beach either. Fucking sand everywhere! English skin burning. Yeah, FUN!!

If you can afford it then go back to England and see how you get on.  See if you like it.  See if you are OK being away from your children. Are you an Aussie citizen? If so, you can come back if you want,  no problem. If you are a permanent resident I guess you need to get a re-entry visa?

I went back for twelve years. I didn't plan it to be that long. It was supposed to be an extended holiday to spend time with my parents after I lost my job in Sydney but then I got a job with Royal Mail in Southampton and "just" stayed. 

I disagree with you saying that Australia having "no culture, heritage or history".  There's over two hundred years of European history here. If that's too "new" for you then that means that British history pre 1788 is also of no consequence. When was Newcastle established? 1804? Just before Trafalgar. If you crave the theatre, opera, ballet etc (not my cup of tea) there's plenty of that in Sydney and I'm sure Newcastle has its own arts scene. Then there is indigenous culture and history.

But as I said, if you are unhappy here, and you have the means to go back to the UK, why not do it?  I loved it in England but once my parents died I had no direct family there and two brothers here so I returned to Sydney and I've not been back to England since I left in 2008.

[Blue Flu]

16 minutes ago, MARYROSE02 said:

What's wrong with compulsory voting? And the Aussie system not being "first past few post" means that your vote is not wasted. I live in a federal Labor and State Greens seat neither of which I want to vote for so I can vote for other parties in the upper houses.

Just because the media is owned by two or three companies does not mean that it's less free. And with access to the internet you get plenty of other views whether you favour the Guardian or the Daily Mail both with free access.

Lefties HATE Murdoch without actually reading his papers or watching his news programmes and they would like to ban him.

Is the judicial system any different in the UK? Does it not favour the rich?

Definitely no freedom of assembly? Demonstrations are practically a daily occurrence. There's a mob in Canberra at the moment setting fire to Old Govt House and the Ratbag who started the fire has twice been released on bail and reoffended.

What's wrong with compulsory voting? Lets see. While at first glance it may appear more democratic having most all participating it can have the opposite result. Example The Donkey Vote. Well of course it is of no interest to true democracy to have as is the case in Australia, that the media control is in the hands of so few. It directly influences government, as has been seen countless times by the power of someone like Murdoch. 

All right thinking people would question Murdoch, not just 'lefties'  

Again Australia's lack of a Bill of Rights, is not something to be applauded, but to be very concerned about. I have given examples of where the abuse of power has been government policy in Australia. The refusal of the Right wing Morrison government to create an integrity commission speaks spades about the sad state of conservative politics in Australia. But I'm not holding the Labor Party up as any source of shinning endorsement either. 

But you are correct in a way you never intentioned, I expect. The withdrawal from EU by Britain has weakened substantially freedom in Britain. No European Court of Human Rights for citizens to appeal to when failed by local justice . 

What is tolerated now, can be removed with a simple act of Parliament. again I have given you examples of this. Any country without a Bill of Rights has the ability to introduce laws to suppress individual rights . 

The worst thing perhaps as we saw in QLD all those years back, was a large proportion of the voting population supported oppressive and corrupt government policies of the time. Happily labeling agitators for democracy as commo's and lefties and worse.   

[MARYROSE02]

The European Court of Human Rights is a foreign power and it's not "local" but "British" justice. I've got a feeling there was a time when Australians could appeal to the House of Lords.

Voting in Australia is part of being a citizen.  If you don't want to vote stay a permanent resident.

I don't know how you can counter people voting for a particular government.  Royal Commissions perhaps if the govt is corrupt. Wasn't there a Fitzgerald Report in QLD?

Daniel Andrews is highly suspect but he's still popular with Victorians. 

Bottom line for me is that I don't feel more or less free whether I'm in Oz or UK.

I buy The Australian every day, got it in front of me now,  and I can't see any insidious propaganda in it and the same on Sky News. They broadcast Parliamentary Question Time and cover the various Commissions when they're sitting, 

[Rallyman]

On 04/01/2022 at 06:19, Bulya said:

Cessnock??  Explains everything…

There are far worse places in the world than Cessnock. 

[simmo]

On 03/01/2022 at 06:29, Faastwalker said:

Coming up to 10 years in Aus. Married an Aussie in 2007 that I met in UK. Had twin boys, moved here when they were around 1. Was apprehensive about moving. But was really up for it in the end. Moved to my wife's parents in Cessnock. That was a mistake. We lived near London, so going from there to Cessnock was a culture shock to say the least. Felt like I'd gone back in time. Struggled to find work, became quite depressed, turned to alcohol. Fking nightmare. Started working, wife fking useless with money. It was a struggle. We eventually split up a few years ago. Was going okay on my own. Then work contract ended a year ago. Looking for work now, but also thinking about home. Missing family and friends. Never really assimilated into this place. I like it in Newcastle. But I'm completely cut off here. Feel like I'm wondering through a boring dream. Stayed for my boys. They are 11 now and ex wife has a new partner who is an arsehole. He thinks I'm an arsehole. Not going to work out is it?! Maybe time to go home? I miss a lot in the UK. Family and friends, the buzz of the cities, the countryside, the culture. Aus is a place without culture, heritage or history. All of what it has is bad, boring and dull. And I don't really go much for the beach either. Fucking sand everywhere! English skin burning. Yeah, FUN!!

You views on Australia are identical to mine.

(doesn't mean our views are right before the pile on)

[bug family]

On 10/01/2022 at 20:10, simmo said:

(doesn't mean our views are right before the pile on)

Does not mean that your views are wrong either

I am open minded on this.... some will think that Australia is the best thing ever and insist this and cannot understand how someone else cannot see and feel the same.....but if they had to live in someone else's shoes and feel what they feel then they may have a different point of view.

I personally accept that for some Australia is home and always will be....good for them, enjoy and have a lovely time

Equally I accept that for some Australia is a nightmare and they cannot wait to leave (that is if they can)