State of the NHS

[bunbury61]

22 hours ago, Parley said:

Serious question Sunset, why do you always write ás instead of has.

I've noticed some other paople on here do it too.

Is this a pommie thing ?

its his german translation ?

[BacktoDemocracy]

19 hours ago, bunbury61 said:

unlike many on here...i actually live in the u.k ,and use the nhs AND I TALK TO GPs and Nurses ,like I did today

( this is not a criticism of any Aussie based posters the way , just the clowns who cut and paste from left wing media )

Two true stories from a gp in inner city Coventry and a nursing sister in a Birmingham hospital

I asked them both straight out " are the nhs s problems because of UNDER FUNDING or OVER USE due to population growth " they both said, BOTH issues were the cause

The inner city doctor was indian , the nursing sister was west indian ,and they both voted BREXIT ,

those are true stories , the nursing sister , I met today

by the way the service I received from the nhs was 2nd to none .

 

 

We'll just put that slur to bed shall we, I live in E. Anglia and was very recently in hospital here, no criticism of staff just about how it is organised and managed by the Tories.

Also close personal experience of my other half working in medical land here and in Australia. 

[Guest]

16 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

We'll just put that slur to bed shall we, I live in E. Anglia and was very recently in hospital here, no criticism of staff just about how it is organised and managed by the Tories.

Also close personal experience of my other half working in medical land here and in Australia. 

Yawns.

[bunbury61]

18 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

We'll just put that slur to bed shall we, I live in E. Anglia and was very recently in hospital here, no criticism of staff just about how it is organised and managed by the Tories.

Also close personal experience of my other half working in medical land here and in Australia. 

and I live on the edge of Birmingham ....a whole different world to the la la land that you live in .

I would nt for a minute argue about the funding or underfunding of the nhs

but to allow over a quarter of a million people into the u.k every year for the last 15 -20 years is UNSUSTAINABLE ,and is putting a huge strain on public services .

That opinion was shared by both the nursing sister and the g.p

 

 

 

[Johndoe]

21 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

We'll just put that slur to bed shall we, I live in E. Anglia and was very recently in hospital here, no criticism of staff just about how it is organised and managed by the Tories.

Also close personal experience of my other half working in medical land here and in Australia. 

?????????????? Please explain what  slur you're putting to bed, and is that the Royal "we"?  So was your experience in E Anglia a positive one? If that's the case, then why criticise "how it is organised and managed by Tories"? Do you think that if you were "Oop norf" your experience may well have differed?

I may well be out of the loop here but if I'm not mistaken the NHS is comprised of self governing Trusts..............one of the reasons that there was a mass exodus of nurses to Canada and Australia when it was first set up. So?.............if that is still the case, to quote a personal experiences of one particular area/hospital/trust is in no way indicative of the NHS as a whole and personal experience can only really serve merely as a vehicle for just that..........parochial experience.........or...........to further political ends/agenda. or Medicare/Oz versus NHS/UK agenda

[Johndoe]

3 hours ago, bunbury61 said:

and I live on the edge of Birmingham ....a whole different world to the la la land that you live in .

I would nt for a minute argue about the funding or underfunding of the nhs

but to allow over a quarter of a million people into the u.k every year for the last 15 -20 years is UNSUSTAINABLE ,and is putting a huge strain on public services .

That opinion was shared by both the nursing sister and the g.p

 

 

 

And.................I must add..................by all 3 of my sons still in the UK and many of their friends who are long time Labour voters. So if Back to Democracy wants to further his, and the socialist agenda, they really need to lift their game and listen to those who are likely to vote based on experience of previous governments and not on idealistic principles of non return. Take a look at how Britain voted. The older you get, the more you move to the right, and, the more you are likely to vote, and "class" becomes less relevant

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/13/how-britain-voted-2017-general-election/

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by Johndoe

[newjez]

5 hours ago, bunbury61 said:

and I live on the edge of Birmingham ....a whole different world to the la la land that you live in .

I would nt for a minute argue about the funding or underfunding of the nhs

but to allow over a quarter of a million people into the u.k every year for the last 15 -20 years is UNSUSTAINABLE ,and is putting a huge strain on public services .

That opinion was shared by both the nursing sister and the g.p

 

 

 

Well, not really when many of them work for the NHS. The infrastructure argument is bullshit. Infrastructure comes down to government planning. End of. You can't blame the immigrants. If the government builds houses, they need to build a corresponding number of schools and hospitals, and fund them accordingly.

Edited February 25, 2018 by newjez

[bristolman]

19 minutes ago, newjez said:

Well, not really when many of them work for the NHS. The infrastructure argument is bullshit. Infrastructure comes down to government planning. End of. You can't blame the immigrants. If the government builds houses, they need to build a corresponding number of schools and hospitals, and fund them accordingly.

It's not a BS argument at all. A fraction of those entering the UK from the EU would be working for the NHS. 

[BacktoDemocracy]

2 hours ago, Johndoe said:

?????????????? Please explain what  slur you're putting to bed, and is that the Royal "we"?  So was your experience in E Anglia a positive one? If that's the case, then why criticise "how it is organised and managed by Tories"? Do you think that if you were "Oop norf" your experience may well have differed?

I may well be out of the loop here but if I'm not mistaken the NHS is comprised of self governing Trusts..............one of the reasons that there was a mass exodus of nurses to Canada and Australia when it was first set up. So?.............if that is still the case, to quote a personal experiences of one particular area/hospital/trust is in no way indicative of the NHS as a whole and personal experience can only really serve merely as a vehicle for just that..........parochial experience.........or...........to further political ends/agenda. or Medicare/Oz versus NHS/UK agenda

Is there a point you're trying to make, there is an obvious difference between organisational objectives, management, strategy and execution.

Execution is the function of those on the front line, in this case doctors and nurses who have little input into the former, that was the case I was making.

Self governing trusts sounds grand but the reality is you then have each one with a separate management team from management board, CEO and management team, finance and everything else in each hospital making each hospital top heavy in management, do you think any commercial company does that with each depot or shop, no they centralise management functions at the center to limit overheads, so the Tories have set the hospitals up to be COST INEFFICIENT

[newjez]

56 minutes ago, bristolman said:

It's not a BS argument at all. A fraction of those entering the UK from the EU would be working for the NHS. 

It is a bullshit argument. Governments deal with planning.

Plus look at the strain being placed on the NHS by just the thought of brexit.

Stopping immigration will kill the NHS.

Edited February 25, 2018 by newjez

[bristolman]

8 minutes ago, newjez said:

It is a bullshit argument. Governments deal with planning.

Plus look at the strain being placed on the NHS by just the thought of brexit.

Stopping immigration will kill the NHS.

It is very much NOT a BS argument and no one I'm aware of is talking about stopping immigration. The thought of Brexit is making a few people nutty irrational that's for sure. 

Edited February 25, 2018 by bristolman

[bunbury61]

3 hours ago, Johndoe said:

And.................I must add..................by all 3 of my sons still in the UK and many of their friends who are long time Labour voters. So if Back to Democracy wants to further his, and the socialist agenda, they really need to lift their game and listen to those who are likely to vote based on experience of previous governments and not on idealistic principles of non return. Take a look at how Britain voted. The older you get, the more you move to the right, and, the more you are likely to vote, and "class" becomes less relevant

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/13/how-britain-voted-2017-general-election/

 

spot on kev ....and it was labour voters " oop norf and the midlands that voted brexit

and the champagne socialists in London still ain't getting the message ,not listening and still looking down their noses

[newjez]

1 hour ago, bristolman said:

It is very much NOT a BS argument and no one I'm aware of is talking about stopping immigration. The thought of Brexit is making a few people nutty irrational that's for sure. 

Tens of thousands your darling Theresa May's talking about.

[bristolman]

4 minutes ago, newjez said:

Tens of thousands your darling Theresa May's talking about.

My darling Theresa May ? 

[Parley]

The darling buds of May.

[bunbury61]

On ‎25‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 16:09, newjez said:

Well, not really when many of them work for the NHS. The infrastructure argument is bullshit. Infrastructure comes down to government planning. End of. You can't blame the immigrants. If the government builds houses, they need to build a corresponding number of schools and hospitals, and fund them accordingly.

many of them work for the nhs ???...another throwaway line ...what percentage .?

you are once again putting the cart before the horse .

f the govts cannot afford to build the schools or hospitals or they haven't got enough money for the homes required , they should not be allowing a quarter of a million people in per year ....ITS UNSUSTAINABLE

 

its like allowing 500 people into a venue ,that only has seating for 200 .

 

[bunbury61]

7 minutes ago, bunbury61 said:

many of them work for the nhs ???...another throwaway line ...what percentage .?

you are once again putting the cart before the horse .

f the govts cannot afford to build the schools or hospitals or they haven't got enough money for the homes required , they should not be allowing a quarter of a million people in per year ....ITS UNSUSTAINABLE

 

its like allowing 500 people into a venue ,that only has seating for 200 .

 

and what about infrastructure .

so the population of the u.k , what should it be ?

And where does the money come from for all the new houses,schools and hospitals ?

[BacktoDemocracy]

On 26/2/2018 at 19:27, bunbury61 said:

many of them work for the nhs ???...another throwaway line ...what percentage .?

you are once again putting the cart before the horse .

f the govts cannot afford to build the schools or hospitals or they haven't got enough money for the homes required , they should not be allowing a quarter of a million people in per year ....ITS UNSUSTAINABLE

 

its like allowing 500 people into a venue ,that only has seating for 200 .

 

And those people pay taxes so that is a fallacious argument, the bottom line is the govt are exploiting everyone

[newjez]

On 26/02/2018 at 19:27, bunbury61 said:

many of them work for the nhs ???...another throwaway line ...what percentage .?

you are once again putting the cart before the horse .

f the govts cannot afford to build the schools or hospitals or they haven't got enough money for the homes required , they should not be allowing a quarter of a million people in per year ....ITS UNSUSTAINABLE

 

its like allowing 500 people into a venue ,that only has seating for 200 .

 

The government should be planning the infrastructure to support the immigration?

Exactly!

[Guest]

On 3/1/2018 at 03:27, newjez said:

The government should be planning the infrastructure to support the immigration?

Exactly!

Then stem immigration until such time as infrastructure is ready to use, but no bring em in stack em up you can cope...not.

[newjez]

3 hours ago, Sunset said:

Then stem immigration until such time as infrastructure is ready to use, but no bring em in stack em up you can cope...not.

Well, in schools they generally use transportable classrooms.

The thing is, you never know whether the influx is permanent.

For example, if Nissan closed down, Sunderland would be a ghost town, and any infrastructure would become worthless.

The massive imbalance in immigration in the UK was largely caused by the UK recovering quickly from the GFC, and the EU didn't.

Now the EU is recovering, immigration is dropping. It could reverse.

Who would be a planner. Hell of a job and so variable.

[bristolman]

1 minute ago, newjez said:

Well, in schools they generally use transportable classrooms.

The thing is, you never know whether the influx is permanent.

For example, if Nissan closed down, Sunderland would be a ghost town, and any infrastructure would become worthless.

The massive imbalance in immigration in the UK was largely caused by the UK recovering quickly from the GFC, and the EU didn't.

Now the EU is recovering, immigration is dropping. It could reverse.

Who would be a planner. Hell of a job and so variable.

Our boys have been to 3 schools since being here and none of them have used transportable classrooms.

Did Geelong become a ghost town when Ford pulled out ? Actually, not a good example lol

[newjez]

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/west-australians-waiting-a-year-to-see-public-hospital-specialists-as-fiona-stanley-hospital-queue-grows-ng-b88768873z

Is this caused by immigration?

[ssiri]

spot on kev ....and it was labour voters " oop norf and the midlands that voted brexit
and the champagne socialists in London still ain't getting the message ,not listening and still looking down their noses

They’ll carry on looking down people’s noses, as they continue to do well. So if the objective was to put champagne socialists noses out of joint, it’d be all for now’t.

[Drumbeat]

On a more lighthearted note it's people like this that make the NHS great:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-43343056

My husband was admitted to hospital In Paisley a few years ago and the staff were fantastic