what happens to the e.u now ?

[newjez]

Good news - that Parliament will vote on it as that will dilute any macho bargaining position nonsense. Apparently Liam Fox will lose his job by Christmas if he keeps posturing as he is now....

 

 

Fox, Davis or Hammond. Hope it's not Hammond. Johnson is slippery enough to stay.

[Fisher1]

 

I think you will find that there was plenty of doom and gloom warnings prior to the vote, yet these people YOU are categorizing still voted not to your liking! You need to accept and assist not knock and hinder, but then that is more wishful thinking on my part!

 

 

I'm not really sure why you are getting so wound up about this anyway. You left the UK in 1999 and your life is in Australia now, so you didn't have a vote in the referendum and can't really hope to have as clear a view of what went on before the vote in terms of both sides "lying their heads off" as people actually living in the UK while it was all going on. Why would you? And to be fair, if you didn't have a vote, you can't (newjez take note) be blamed for the result.

 

Your attitude to developments in the UK now though I find baffling. You seem to think that the post referendum situation is all just a passing hiccup. Of course there are other forces at play besides the Brexit vote, but from where I'm standing - I'm no political expert this is just my impression - the UK is in turmoil. We don't appear to have an opposition party, not one that opposes the government of the day anyway - they are all too busy fighting amongst themselves. The unelected prime minister doesn't appear to know what she is doing, and seems to be making ever more anti immigrant statements every time she opens her mouth. The slimy Nige is intent on winning as many enemies as possible during his remaining time as an MEP and Boris - having somehow wormed his way back into a powerful position - doesn't seem to be doing anything to help the situation.

 

I fear for the people without decent resources to see them through this crisis, because I think we are being governed by a motley bunch of second rate rabble rousers who have no idea what to do with the ball they so unexpectedly caught last June.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Fisher1

[flag of convenience]

Yep! there is always a dark cloud to every silver lining!

 

But there has to be a silver lining....few apparent here.

[flag of convenience]

I'm not really sure why you are getting so wound up about this anyway. You left the UK in 1999 and your life is in Australia now, so you didn't have a vote in the referendum and can't really hope to have as clear a view of what went on before the vote in terms of both sides "lying their heads off" as people actually living in the UK while it was all going on. Why would you? And to be fair, if you didn't have a vote, you can't (newjez take note) be blamed for the result.

 

Your attitude to developments in the UK now though I find baffling. You seem to think that the post referendum situation is all just a passing hiccup. Of course there are other forces at play besides the Brexit vote, but from where I'm standing - I'm no political expert this is just my impression - the UK is in turmoil. We don't appear to have an opposition party, not one that opposes the government of the day anyway - they are all too busy fighting amongst themselves. The unelected prime minister doesn't appear to know what she is doing, and seems to be making ever more anti immigrant statements every time she opens her mouth. The slimy Nige is intent on winning as many enemies as possible during his remaining time as an MEP and Boris - having somehow wormed his way back into a powerful position - doesn't seem to be doing anything to help the situation.

 

I fear for the people without decent resources to see them through this crisis, because I think we are being governed by a motley bunch of second rate rabble rousers who have no idea what to do with the ball they so unexpectedly caught last June.

 

Second rate is probably being unduly kind to the creators of this and politicians in general. Especially as the result came as a complete surprise to those that orchestrated it.

[BacktoDemocracy]

And all I pointed out was that it could change the life of others whim are in the reverse of your situation. Not sure though how we can blame Brexit for the fluctuating pound? really it is just one of the many things that has an effect on it http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37620331 and from September http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/09/01/ftse-100-breaks-6800-and-pound-skids-ahead-of-uk-manufacturing-d/

You are joking aren't you, the fall of the pound to lows not seen for 30 years or more are a direct consequence of brexit and the rest of the world having no confidence in our economy and selling the pound, if people are not getting that then they are either in wilful denial of the consequences or they lack an understanding that this whole exercise has potentially dire consequences for the UK and we have not even started to exit the EU yet, f*ck knows what is going to happen when the world knows the terms on which we are going to leave.

 

But I suppose it's all worth it to take back control from the faceless bureaucrats of the EU and now be kept in the dark by the sainted Theresa and be denied any democratic scrutiny of whatever half a*rsed deal she and her 3 monkeys stitch up.

[BacktoDemocracy]

Will the average person in the UK care or be impacted by the pound dropping.

As has been pointed out by others the pound has gone up and down forever and always will.

It will continue to fall and rise again.

Yes but this fall could have been avoided, people were told this would happen, and it is going to be years before this drop is reversed , it will only pick up when the rest of the world is reassured that overseas investment is flowing into the country again.

And yes ordinary people will start to feel it , petrol prices are going up, some food will start to rise like meat and I would guess bread if this goes on long enough as we use imported wheat, electrical goods will rise as stocks get depleted, major impact will be foreign holidays, Spain ,France, Italy will all be costing between 10-20% more, with consequently similar increase in spending money .

[BacktoDemocracy]

I cannot believe that people like you can only see and focus on the down side as well as make ridicules and stupid statements about what I and other people want or wanted, did or did not do, just because they do not conform to your single minded view on things. Are you unable to see that there is some middle ground here? do you not understand world fluctuations in currencies?

But do you understand what drives the rises and falls in currencies, it's not just whims, it's due to estimations of the performance of a country's economy or looking for a country which has a stable or rising economy when other countries economies look unstable.

[BacktoDemocracy]

Never claimed he was wrong on that point. He intimated that it was those people that voted for brexit, I just pointed out that they had all the information, generally by scaremongering, on which to decide how to vote and vote they did.

Regarding your claim that UK do not manufacture anything then - Manufacturing makes up 11% of UK GVA and 54% of UK exports and directly employs 2.6 million people. Despite the decline since the 1970s, when manufacturing contributed 25% of UK GDP, the UK is currently the 11th largest manufacturing nation in the world.

UK Manufacturing Statistics - The Manufacturer

 

 

And who is in 12th place, Mexico

Edited October 12, 2016 by BacktoDemocracy

[BacktoDemocracy]

I'm not really sure why you are getting so wound up about this anyway. You left the UK in 1999 and your life is in Australia now, so you didn't have a vote in the referendum and can't really hope to have as clear a view of what went on before the vote in terms of both sides "lying their heads off" as people actually living in the UK while it was all going on. Why would you? And to be fair, if you didn't have a vote, you can't (newjez take note) be blamed for the result.

 

Your attitude to developments in the UK now though I find baffling. You seem to think that the post referendum situation is all just a passing hiccup. Of course there are other forces at play besides the Brexit vote, but from where I'm standing - I'm no political expert this is just my impression - the UK is in turmoil. We don't appear to have an opposition party, not one that opposes the government of the day anyway - they are all too busy fighting amongst themselves. The unelected prime minister doesn't appear to know what she is doing, and seems to be making ever more anti immigrant statements every time she opens her mouth. The slimy Nige is intent on winning as many enemies as possible during his remaining time as an MEP and Boris - having somehow wormed his way back into a powerful position - doesn't seem to be doing anything to help the situation.

 

I fear for the people without decent resources to see them through this crisis, because I think we are being governed by a motley bunch of second rate rabble rousers who have no idea what to do with the ball they so unexpectedly caught last June.

A very reasoned and reasonable assessment of the situation, it is becoming clearer that we have a slightly dim vicars daughter for PM with all the prejudices of her class, her only attribute seems to be animal cunning, choosing what she thought would be the winning side in the referendum but nonetheless keeping out of sight on the off chance.

[Fisher1]

Re the oft repeated cry that remainers need to stop whinging and 'get on with it' ... Ian Hislop was on question time this week and gave a stunning very funny but to the point comment about the right to continue the debate.

 

I can't work out how to cut and paste on my IPad (sad isn't it) but if anyone is interested in what he had to say, it's sure to come up if you google it.

[newjez]

Re the oft repeated cry that remainers need to stop whinging and 'get on with it' ... Ian Hislop was on question time this week and gave a stunning very funny but to the point comment about the right to continue the debate.

 

I can't work out how to cut and paste on my IPad (sad isn't it) but if anyone is interested in what he had to say, it's sure to come up if you google it.

 

 

Here's a link to it

 

 

http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/08/ian-hislop-hit-the-nail-on-the-head-on-brexit-5994922/

 

 

I voted to remain, but I am happy to leave, but for the right reasons, and with the least amount of damage. I'm really not sure why that is such a problem for some people.

[Quokka2005]

Here's a link to it

 

 

http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/08/ian-hislop-hit-the-nail-on-the-head-on-brexit-5994922/

 

 

I voted to remain, but I am happy to leave, but for the right reasons, and with the least amount of damage. I'm really not sure why that is such a problem for some people.

 

If you're happy to leave why didn't you vote to leave

[Gbye grey sky]

Re the oft repeated cry that remainers need to stop whinging and 'get on with it' ... Ian Hislop was on question time this week and gave a stunning very funny but to the point comment about the right to continue the debate.

 

I can't work out how to cut and paste on my IPad (sad isn't it) but if anyone is interested in what he had to say, it's sure to come up if you google it.

 

Actually that QT appearance was last July rather than last week but the principles are pertinent. It does appear that many Leave supporters consider that those who 'lost' the referendum should have no opinions or any say in the manner of the exit.

 

On the other hand it would be helpful if some of those who supported Remain could accept the result itself and stop keep hoping for some sort of referendum re-run.

[Fisher1]

Here's a link to it.

 

 

http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/08/ian-hislop-hit-the-nail-on-the-head-on-brexit-5994922/

 

 

Thanks!

[Marisawright]

we are in a not-too-bad position at the mo, since we have a small non-sterling income and some money already in Oz, but we are still wondering whether it would be better to delay the move (planned for this time next year if all goes well with the house sale) by six months. It's difficult to know, and I feel for those of you who are already in the grip of the falling pound ... Although I know it's only w matter of time before prices start to rise in the UK.

 

I feel for you because we had a similar problem when we considered moving to the UK. While we were doing our planning, the dollar was worth about 65p and it was a no-brainer that we'd be better off in England than we were in Sydney. Stupid me, I knew perfectly well that the dollar was never usually that high - so why I imagined it would continue I don't know. Idiot.

 

Anyhow, weeks before we moved the dollar plunged, but my oh had already got the visa so we thought what the heck. But I found that once we were in England, I couldn't cope with the financial stress! I couldn't forget what happened when I emigrated to Australia 30 years ago. When we left the UK, we transferred all our savings. At that time the dollar was worth about 70p. Within a few months, it had dropped to 46p - needless to say I was SO thankful that we'd settled in well and didn't want to go back!

 

It's the main reason we didn't stay in the UK, really - we soon realised the only place that would really suit us was London, which would've meant much higher housing costs, and I was just too scared to commit to that with an uncertain income and no British pension for my oh.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Marisawright

[Keith and Linda]

I'm not really sure why you are getting so wound up about this anyway. You left the UK in 1999 and your life is in Australia now, so you didn't have a vote in the referendum and can't really hope to have as clear a view of what went on before the vote in terms of both sides "lying their heads off" as people actually living in the UK while it was all going on. Why would you? And to be fair, if you didn't have a vote, you can't (newjez take note) be blamed for the result.

 

Your attitude to developments in the UK now though I find baffling. You seem to think that the post referendum situation is all just a passing hiccup. Of course there are other forces at play besides the Brexit vote, but from where I'm standing - I'm no political expert this is just my impression - the UK is in turmoil. We don't appear to have an opposition party, not one that opposes the government of the day anyway - they are all too busy fighting amongst themselves. The unelected prime minister doesn't appear to know what she is doing, and seems to be making ever more anti immigrant statements every time she opens her mouth. The slimy Nige is intent on winning as many enemies as possible during his remaining time as an MEP and Boris - having somehow wormed his way back into a powerful position - doesn't seem to be doing anything to help the situation.

 

I fear for the people without decent resources to see them through this crisis, because I think we are being governed by a motley bunch of second rate rabble rousers who have no idea what to do with the ball they so unexpectedly caught last June.

 

So you think that I am some sort of unique person and do not know another single sole in the UK? and that I have no interest UK because my life is here in Aus? you are so so wrong however one may ask what interest you have considering your leaving, but one can see that you are not exactly enamored with the British political system and the current elected leaders, well you certainly will enjoy yourself when you get to Aus! Can we assume that your plans to leave the UK were well advanced prior to the Brexit? if so your real problem with the brexit is the currency exchange.

 

My main beef is with folk whom are so extreme with their views opinions especially when it is on the doom and gloom end of the extremes, which really can only be described as scare mongering, along with their refusal to see or even accept that here is a middle road, it does not help anybody or the process of brexit to keep pouting such. You will not find any post of mine ( or many of others) which says everything will be a bed of roses or it will be a walk in the park. The British people have voted and everybody needs to get behind the process, but I suppose if not happy with it they can follow you?

 

 

The situation that the UK is in is not unique it is just the blame name for it is different.

[Keith and Linda]

You are joking aren't you, the fall of the pound to lows not seen for 30 years or more are a direct consequence of brexit and the rest of the world having no confidence in our economy and selling the pound, if people are not getting that then they are either in wilful denial of the consequences or they lack an understanding that this whole exercise has potentially dire consequences for the UK and we have not even started to exit the EU yet, f*ck knows what is going to happen when the world knows the terms on which we are going to leave.

 

But I suppose it's all worth it to take back control from the faceless bureaucrats of the EU and now be kept in the dark by the sainted Theresa and be denied any democratic scrutiny of whatever half a*rsed deal she and her 3 monkeys stitch up.

 

Oh dear! I do hope that they are keeping your shoe laces and pointy objects away from you!

[Keith and Linda]

But do you understand what drives the rises and falls in currencies, it's not just whims, it's due to estimations of the performance of a country's economy or looking for a country which has a stable or rising economy when other countries economies look unstable.

 

The same things that have driven it for years now, and that can include whims, as there were at one time currency speculators controlling, in turn, the currencies of various countries, which had nothing at all to do with a country's performance.

[Keith and Linda]

And who is in 12th place, Mexico

 

So someone posts that the UK has no manufacturing, which was wrong, and then you come along and try to demean the UK manufacturing efforts and the efforts of 2.6 million British workers? pretty shameful really!

[Rallyman]

You are joking aren't you, the fall of the pound to lows not seen for 30 years or more are a direct consequence of brexit and the rest of the world having no confidence in our economy and selling the pound, if people are not getting that then they are either in wilful denial of the consequences or they lack an understanding that this whole exercise has potentially dire consequences for the UK and we have not even started to exit the EU yet, f*ck knows what is going to happen when the world knows the terms on which we are going to leave.

 

But I suppose it's all worth it to take back control from the faceless bureaucrats of the EU and now be kept in the dark by the sainted Theresa and be denied any democratic scrutiny of whatever half a*rsed deal she and her 3 monkeys stitch up.

 

 

The pound to AU $ was a lot lower in 2012 than it currently is ,although I do think it's going to drop lower ,it's cetainly going to be bumpy ride.

[akiralx]

Fox, Davis or Hammond. Hope it's not Hammond. Johnson is slippery enough to stay.

 

Not Hammond - Fox and/or Davis are more likely, they are dispensable whereas Theresa May really relies on Hammond's support.

[flag of convenience]

So you think that I am some sort of unique person and do not know another single sole in the UK? and that I have no interest UK because my life is here in Aus? you are so so wrong however one may ask what interest you have considering your leaving, but one can see that you are not exactly enamored with the British political system and the current elected leaders, well you certainly will enjoy yourself when you get to Aus! Can we assume that your plans to leave the UK were well advanced prior to the Brexit? if so your real problem with the brexit is the currency exchange.

 

My main beef is with folk whom are so extreme with their views opinions especially when it is on the doom and gloom end of the extremes, which really can only be described as scare mongering, along with their refusal to see or even accept that here is a middle road, it does not help anybody or the process of brexit to keep pouting such. You will not find any post of mine ( or many of others) which says everything will be a bed of roses or it will be a walk in the park. The British people have voted and everybody needs to get behind the process, but I suppose if not happy with it they can follow you?

 

 

The situation that the UK is in is not unique it is just the blame name for it is different.

 

Well as the main instigators themselves did not believe in exit, using it purely for political expediency, I'd say the British public have a lot to be concerned about. Cameron pulling the same stunt earlier almost lost Scotland as well. Not bad in a terms work. Same goes for Boris, it was all about him and his elevation to real power. UKIP were donkeys, playing on fears, always in danger of self destructing as such parties are prone to do.

[Fisher1]

So you think that I am some sort of unique person and do not know another single sole in the UK? and that I have no interest UK because my life is here in Aus? you are so so wrong however one may ask what interest you have considering your leaving, but one can see that you are not exactly enamored with the British political system and the current elected leaders, well you certainly will enjoy yourself when you get to Aus! Can we assume that your plans to leave the UK were well advanced prior to the Brexit? if so your real problem with the brexit is the currency exchange.

 

My main beef is with folk whom are so extreme with their views opinions especially when it is on the doom and gloom end of the extremes, which really can only be described as scare mongering, along with their refusal to see or even accept that here is a middle road, it does not help anybody or the process of brexit to keep pouting such. You will not find any post of mine ( or many of others) which says everything will be a bed of roses or it will be a walk in the park. The British people have voted and everybody needs to get behind the process, but I suppose if not happy with it they can follow you?

 

 

The situation that the UK is in is not unique it is just the blame name for it is different.

 

 

No, I don't think you are some sort of unique person, or that you have no interest in the UK, or that you don't know another single soul in the UK. I think that because your life is in Australia now you cannot possibly have the same insight into the events leading up to the referendum as someone who was actually here in the UK at the time.

 

My my personal situation is not really relevant here, except to say that my plans to leave were well advanced before Brexit but that no, my main problem with Brexit is nothing to do with the currency exchange rate. I worked for the EU for the better part of my career and still believe that on the whole we were better together. I feel saddened beyond words at the way things have turned out.

 

The current leaders were elected a relatively short time ago, on a manifesto which bore no resemblance to some of the plans that Ms May and her colleagues have been suggesting recently and they seem to be doing their best to prevent cross party discussion in Westminster. I think this takes her so far beyond her original remit that she is pushing right up to the edge of what is acceptable in a democracy. This is not a middle road.

 

Not only is discussion in Westminster healthy and normal, it is healthy and normal for individuals to discuss and comment on current affairs in their own country. Many people sincerely believe that the UK is going to have an extremely tough few years if they go ahead with Brexit and as citizens of the UK they are entirely justified in voicing those opinions. We live, as I have mentioned, in a democracy where freedom of speech is allowed.

 

Of course you have not claimed it is all going to be a walk in the park, but you have said that the British people have voted and everybody needs to get behind it. I agree, but that does not preclude them from complaining long and loud if they see something that they feel is unjust, unfair, or undemocratic. Your suggestion that people can always follow me to Australia if they don't like the way things are going is too patently silly to deserve a comment. Other than to say that I don't think Your government would be too keen on that, do you?

[newjez]

If you're happy to leave why didn't you vote to leave

 

 

Because it's a bit more complicated than that Stacey. There is a sect in the Tory party which are like opus dei in the da Vinci code. I'm not sure if they practice self flagellation personally, but they certainly do for the country. Like the extreme left, they have an ideal which sounds wonderful but just isn't practical.

 

My worry was that by leaving, these people would completely shun europe to the detriment of the UK and many people within the UK.

 

I would like to stop the political union and monetary union and just go back to a trading union which is what the EU was meant to be. I don't have a problem with immigration, but it does need to be controlled in the extreme, and there is provision to do this, although it would have been easier to have done it on the sly as France and Germany tend to do.

 

I believe in leaving the EU, but I don't subscribe to this warped hard right Tory view. Much as I believe in social democracy, but oppose much of what the communist states of Russia and China.

 

Basically, I didn't trust the people holding the chain, and I think I've been proven right. My wife voted to leave and she bitterly regrets the direction things are taking. It's not what she voted for.

[Parley]

Your suggestion that people can always follow me to Australia if they don't like the way things are going is too patently silly to deserve a comment. Other than to say that I don't think Your government would be too keen on that, do you?

 

Agreed.

We have too many whinging poms here already without bringing more in.