Should the UK cut ties with the EU?

[Ken]

It would make sense to stay in, and split Europe into three different EU's.

 

Why three (as opposed to say two or four)? Do you have particular groupings in mind? Presumably the "ever closer union" eurozone is one EU but what's the distinction between the other two?

[flag of convenience]

Why three (as opposed to say two or four)? Do you have particular groupings in mind? Presumably the "ever closer union" eurozone is one EU but what's the distinction between the other two?

 

It could obviously be two zones. But three zones could fit the bill as well. Those on their economic ass obviously would be in the third, hopefully temporal, until in a position to join the second tier nations. Surely rather obvious the groupings, but rather late in the day to put into practise and maintain the present Union in tact, one suspects.

[flag of convenience]

Can I just point out a couple of things, first The "Great" in the name simply refers to the larger land mass. it NEVER refers to any political, economic or military greatness" and second, if the U.K does leave the EU it doesn't mean trade or immigration from Europe or cooperation with the E.U will just end.

 

Yes while some of us are fully versed on the true meaning, there are many to whom the word 'Great ' infers something else. Of course migration will not cease nor with cooperation but a front row seat will certainly be removed.

[bunbury61]

G

No work no visa but I know plenty of folk living and working in CH. Even more living in Germany and crossing each day to work in CH. Many Swiss not happy to say the least at the German/French/Italian influx.

 

But are these people entitled to free housing ..schooling ...healthcare within Switzerland ?...thought not

 

That's just working in Switzerland ...not the whole nine yards ...completely different

[BacktoDemocracy]

Can I just point out a couple of things, first The "Great" in the name simply refers to the larger land mass. it NEVER refers to any political, economic or military greatness" and second, if the U.K does leave the EU it doesn't mean trade or immigration from Europe or cooperation with the E.U will just end.

If it had referred simply to the Britain made up of the 4 countries, Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England, it should have been Greater Britain so i would contend that it has always been a reference to status won by conquest and this is how it is interpreted by the majority of the Empire Loyalists, UKIPpers and swivel eyed loonies like Bill Cash , John Redwood and Chris Grayling and the Daily Mail to name but a few.

If we leave the EU there will be no goodwill from the EU, there will be positive antipathy towards the UK as evidenced by comments this week by Germany, and we will have to compete with manufacturers in the EU and how long will it be before there are tariff barriers for UK manufactured goods, how long before the remaining manufacturing base from here relocates to Hungary or Poland which are in the EU with even cheaper educated workforces and no tariff barriers.

Also once out of the EU these Tories will not even have to make the pretence of being concerned about the civil and human rights of anybody they don't like and that applies to trade unionists, environmentalists, migrants and anybody else that stands up to their friends in the world of big business and big money, so don't think being allied to the USA is going to do anything for the man in the street except strip out your rights to free health care, sick pay or holidays with pay or long term unemployment benefit and equal representation in the courts ,all of which is the experience of US workers, so forget about some balmy idyll once we are out of the EU. Bosses will still want young, educated , but above all else cheap labour and they will not let govt turn off the immigration tap which keeps labour cheap for them.

Edited February 6, 2016 by BacktoDemocracy

[newjez]

Why three (as opposed to say two or four)? Do you have particular groupings in mind? Presumably the "ever closer union" eurozone is one EU but what's the distinction between the other two?

 

 

 

The class A countries obviously, Germany etc.

 

 

The class B countries, can't quite compete with class A efficiency. Spain etc

 

 

The banana republics. Greece etc

Edited February 6, 2016 by newjez

[newjez]

If it had referred simply to the Britain made up of the 4 countries, Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England, it should have been Greater Britain so i would contend that it has always been a reference to status won by conquest and this is how it is interpreted by the majority of the Empire Loyalists, UKIPpers and swivel eyed loonies like Bill Cash , John Redwood and Chris Grayling and the Daily Mail to name but a few.

If we leave the EU there will be no goodwill from the EU, there will be positive antipathy towards the UK as evidenced by comments this week by Germany, and we will have to compete with manufacturers in the EU and how long will it be before there are tariff barriers for UK manufactured goods, how long before the remaining manufacturing base from here relocates to Hungary or Poland which are in the EU with even cheaper educated workforces and no tariff barriers.

Also once out of the EU these Tories will not even have to make the pretence of being concerned about the civil and human rights of anybody they don't like and that applies to trade unionists, environmentalists, migrants and anybody else that stands up to their friends in the world of big business and big money, so don't think being allied to the USA is going to do anything for the man in the street except strip out your rights to free health care, sick pay or holidays with pay or long term unemployment benefit and equal representation in the courts ,all of which is the experience of US workers, so forget about some balmy idyll once we are out of the EU. Bosses will still want young, educated , but above all else cheap labour and they will not let govt turn off the immigration tap which keeps labour cheap for them.

 

 

 

Have you ever watched Eurovision?

[Quinkla]

It could obviously be two zones. But three zones could fit the bill as well. Those on their economic ass obviously would be in the third, hopefully temporal, until in a position to join the second tier nations. Surely rather obvious the groupings, but rather late in the day to put into practise and maintain the present Union in tact, one suspects.

Would there be promotion and relegation? How about playoffs?

[BacktoDemocracy]

Have you ever watched Eurovision?

Uh???????

[Ken]

If it had referred simply to the Britain made up of the 4 countries, Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England, it should have been Greater Britain so i would contend that it has always been a reference to status won by conquest and this is how it is interpreted by the majority of the Empire Loyalists, UKIPpers and swivel eyed loonies like Bill Cash , John Redwood and Chris Grayling and the Daily Mail to name but a few.

 

 

Great Britain has never referred to 4 countries. There are only 3 countries on the island. The name has been in use for at least 2,000 years in various forms - i.e. long before the island became unified let alone had any history of conquest or empire. Indeed the first act of Union was "The United Kingdom of England and Scotland" it was referred to in common usage as Great Britain but was that officially still merely the name of the island. It wasn't until the beginning of the 19th Century that the name Great Britain came into official usage with the new Union "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland" - the very name makes it clear that they knew Ireland was a separate island from Great Britain. It's now of course the "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" - but any Pom knows that from looking at their passport so goodness knows why I'm bothering to type that on this website - oh yes because you still have this maddening idea that there are four countries in Great Britain.

[Thom]

Some great news...

 

Support For Britain Leaving The EU Surges To 45 Percent

 

The campaign hoping to take Britain out of the European Union (EU) is enjoying a fresh lead in the polls with 45 percent of British citizens supporting secession and 36 percent supporting the status quo.

 

Later this year, Britain will vote on whether to leave the EU, with most commentators expecting the vote to come in May or June.

 

Conservative Prime Minister David Cameron has spent the last few months touring European capitals, attempting to win concessions from EU leaders to change the terms of Britain’s EU membership.

 

During last year’s general election in May, the Conservatives promised they would deliver a referendum on whether the United Kingdom should stay or leave the EU by the end of 2017. The Conservative Party won a surprise victory with a majority of 12 seats in parliament.

 

Cameron hopes to bring back a series of changes to Britain’s membership so he can recommend a vote to stay within a reformed EU.

 

These changes include cutting back on the amount of welfare EU migrants can claim in Britain and a rule allowing national governments to block EU legislation.

 

A draft of the deal was published this week but received a scathing review in the press for not going far enough. Many in the media accused David Cameron of failing to negotiate a satisfactory deal for Britain.

 

“Research for The Times reveals the negative press has pushed Leave significantly ahead, now leading Remain by nine points, up from four last week,” writes YouGov’s Will Dahlgreen.

[Gbye grey sky]

The exteme right-wing media there are certainly pulling going to pull out all the stops for an exit vote and they are usually successful. Those on the extreme right view the EU (with some justification) as a beaurocratic quasi-socialist body which is holding back the UK from the extreme right-wing agenda that they favour.

 

I cannot see the Scots tolerating it and an exit would give them grounds to push for a new referendum freeing Scotland up to join the EU.

[Parley]

The exteme right-wing media there are certainly pulling going to pull out all the stops for an exit vote and they are usually successful. Those on the extreme right view the EU (with some justification) as a beaurocratic quasi-socialist body which is holding back the UK from the extreme right-wing agenda that they favour.

 

I cannot see the Scots tolerating it and an exit would give them grounds to push for a new referendum freeing Scotland up to join the EU.

 

I don't know why you keep keep portraying anyone with a different opinion to you as the extreme right.

It is a lazy insult.

[kevpreston]

With the size of China and America etc. The EU has it's merits in the political, competitive world we live in.

[flag of convenience]

G

 

But are these people entitled to free housing ..schooling ...healthcare within Switzerland ?...thought not

 

That's just working in Switzerland ...not the whole nine yards ...completely different

 

You wrote about foreigners in CH and I filled you in . Switzerland does house a number of refugees whom are not always welcome, to say the least, but do get all services mentioned if accepted as refugees.

Others, citizens of Germany, France, Italy are often in prime positions, at least in the sense of pay and are far from welcomed in many instances from their local co workers. But there are so many of them a quiet resignation to the reality of the situation, may b e an apt way to describe it.

[flag of convenience]

I don't know why you keep keep portraying anyone with a different opinion to you as the extreme right.

It is a lazy insult.

 

Probably because the Right Wing of the Tory Party has long advocated a withdrawal from Europe. Not to mention further to the Right parties.

[JockinTas]

You wrote about foreigners in CH and I filled you in . Switzerland does house a number of refugees whom are not always welcome, to say the least, but do get all services mentioned if accepted as refugees.

Others, citizens of Germany, France, Italy are often in prime positions, at least in the sense of pay and are far from welcomed in many instances from their local co workers. But there are so many of them a quiet resignation to the reality of the situation, may b e an apt way to describe it.

 

I found the Swiss hard to get to know. Most of the friends I made worked for CERN and they were mainly Brits and Americans. Enjoyed my year there but was glad to leave.

[flag of convenience]

Would there be promotion and relegation? How about playoffs?

 

Always play offs and corruption ,which is why we have arrived in the situation found at present. There should be pretty clear which countries fit into the first tier. The second tier should compose those nations not basket cases.

[Gbye grey sky]

I don't know why you keep keep portraying anyone with a different opinion to you as the extreme right.

It is a lazy insult.

 

It was not stated as an insult. More a matter of fact. Are you implying that being right-wing is a bad thing?

[flag of convenience]

I found the Swiss hard to get to know. Most of the friends I made worked for CERN and they were mainly Brits and Americans. Enjoyed my year there but was glad to leave.

 

Very much agree. Although varies a little depending in where in CH you find your self. The Italian part being my preferred. I came close to moving there from France myself, often wonder if would still be there if had taken the plunge. My partner at the time, remains and certainly done very well professionally and materially. I suspect other regrets but easy country to escape from.

[flag of convenience]

It was not stated as an insult. More a matter of fact. Are you implying that being right-wing is a bad thing?

 

More an unfortunate impairment, to which a remedy remains as distant as ever.

[JockinTas]

Very much agree. Although varies a little depending in where in CH you find your self. The Italian part being my preferred. I came close to moving there from France myself, often wonder if would still be there if had taken the plunge. My partner at the time, remains and certainly done very well professionally and materially. I suspect other regrets but easy country to escape from.

 

I was in the French part - a town called Nyon on the shores of Lake Geneva. The Italian part is beautiful! I also like the German part - oh let's face it - all of Switzerland is lovely but just wouldn't want to live there. Still in touch with my old boss from those days. He is German but has lived in Switzerland for 50 years. He and his wife were lovely people to work for. They took me to the town in Germany where they were originally from. Bamberg in Bavaria. What a lovely place!

[newjez]

Uh???????

 

They hate us in or out.

[flag of convenience]

I was in the French part - a town called Nyon on the shores of Lake Geneva. The Italian part is beautiful! I also like the German part - oh let's face it - all of Switzerland is lovely but just wouldn't want to live there. Still in touch with my old boss from those days. He is German but has lived in Switzerland for 50 years. He and his wife were lovely people to work for. They took me to the town in Germany where they were originally from. Bamberg in Bavaria. What a lovely place!

 

The German part for me. We lived a short drive from it in Germany for a time. Would cross to but cheaper petrol and sometimes coffee and cake, which were more expensive though than the German side.

A good portion of younger Swiss at the time had very positive feelings towards Australia, along with a somewhat negative sentiment towards own country.

Although lived in France a long time, for whatever reason am not very familiar with French speaking CH. Never been to Geneva even.

[Parley]

Roger Federer is a lovely bloke.