starlight7 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 The young men and women who choose to go overseas and join terrorist forces. Should they lose their citizenship? Should anyone who commits a serious offence lose citizenship? Where should they go if they cannot come here? Country of birth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srh82 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 good questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi69 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 No way let them back in...where should they go ?? dont know....but they were the ones who turned their backs on a country good to them. my mum n dad always taught me ...you make your own bed. theyve made their bed, now its time for them to lay in it...it was their choice.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatpack Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Why not, if you want to live in an adopted country then you should adopt that countries traditions and values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 The young men and women who choose to go overseas and join terrorist forces. Should they lose their citizenship? Should anyone who commits a serious offence lose citizenship? Where should they go if they cannot come here? Country of birth? What if they were born in Australia though? The UK has the same problem. I believe that under International Law you cannot render anyone 'stateless' though stand to be corrected on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi69 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 What if they were born in Australia though? The UK has the same problem. I believe that under International Law you cannot render anyone 'stateless' though stand to be corrected on that. Maybe the laws needs to be changed then.. If people are given a chance and a home in a new safe country.....then choose to betray that country... well bye bye...you've made your bed .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny842003 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 The big question is how do you deem these people guilty without them being judged by a jury of their peers? Its a slippy slope to start finding people guilty in their absence like that. Of course if they step on a land mine on the way back to Turkey it would be very advantageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 The young men and women who choose to go overseas and join terrorist forces. Should they lose their citizenship? Should anyone who commits a serious offence lose citizenship? Where should they go if they cannot come here? Country of birth? The naivety of the bleeding hearts ...a lot of the young terrorists leaving oz to fight in Syria,are actually sons and daughters of Lebanese immigrants given refuge from the Lebanese civil war in the 80s....oh the gratitude. The passports should be cancelled as soon as it is proved they are in Syria to fight for I.s. What happens when they return ,and they are ,and they blow up innocent Australians in a major Australian city....that is inevitable iam afraid. What will the bleeding hearts say then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benj1980 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Yes you can't be stateless. Presumably these guys will be arrested on arrival and the taxpayer pay for their new accommodation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 What if they came back to Australia as 'boat people', claiming to be asylum seekers, fleeing from persecution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benj1980 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 As in not identified as citizens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srg73 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 This sounds very extreme however here we go..... Globally countries need to come together. All countries should be responsible for their citizens and their actions. Assuming agreement to these, a guantanamo bay arrangement should be established and send them there with each country paying for their own citizens stay. I'm a little uncomfortable about the next stage, maybe death row although many would agree that they were prepared to loose their lives for the fight with IS so why not once they are caught. The more liberal side of me suggests they should be stood up and made to teach other from their own mistakes however I believe this will not discourage others however expect this is how it will end up. Let's be honest the leeches and ultra left wing human right lawyers will get them entry back into society. The human rights acts globally desperately need a full review as the initial intentions of the human rights acts after ww2 are not represented in any way now. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 I guess if they were made to stay in the country they had gone to the issue would be solved because they wouldn't live to tell the tale. Hard way to learn a lesson but maybe that is how it has to be? I'd be uncomfortable readmitting them unless they were put straight into jail. The Russians and the Chinese could give a lot of advice about how to deal with anti-government personnel. A new camp in Marble Bar perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Citizenship should be permanent. Visas are temporary (yes, even permanent ones) and can be cancelled. But once someone has citizenship, they are as Australian as anyone else. If they offend against laws, by all means try them an punish them. And if you are worried about citizens offending, then make the application process more stringent. But the act of withdrawing a citizenship indicates that the person was never really a full member of the citizenry in the first place. Stripping people of citizenship is the sort of thing I associate with foreign dictators, not democratic societies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 Stripping people of citizenship is the sort of thing I associate with foreign dictators, not democratic societies. We're getting there, Quinkla, we're getting there.:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I think Tony Abbot summed it up pretty well for a change. If they go abroad, fight for ISIS and manage to get back they are going to be tried and jailed. If they were on a visa there's every chance it's been cancelled. Sounds fair enough to me and all those from "think tanks", who reckon it's a good idea to let them back in and try and de-radicalise some others can go and get stuffed. I bet there's a few had second thoughts since the ones wanting to come back have hit a spot of bother. I have a feeling they thought they could just disappear for a few months and it would be a bit like playing a PS3 game in real life. Then when they were fed up or disillusioned come back with no payback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robfromdublin Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 By all means try them by a jury of their peers, with relevant evidence, when they return. That is how democracy works. If you violate a law then you should be tried and, if found guilty, punished appropriately. Maybe that would mean removal of citizenship, but IF you are a citizen then a trial by jury is your right prior to that happening. Anything less is undemocratic and does not live up to the ideals of Australia, and all those who fought and died for her. Personally I think there are many worse crimes than fighting in another country. If continued citizenship is fine for the rape and murder of a child, then how is appearing in a video for IS (like that doctor) somehow worthy of being kicked out of the country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 They shoot traitors, don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 The young men and women who choose to go overseas and join terrorist forces. Should they lose their citizenship? Should anyone who commits a serious offence lose citizenship? Where should they go if they cannot come here? Country of birth? If they were born citizens well then I just do not see how it could be possible and I don't think a country can wash its hands of the issue, just makes it somebody else's probelm. If they were conferred citizenship later on, well I also think it is too bad. Country needs to take better care of who they grant citizenship too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Maybe that would mean removal of citizenship, but IF you are a citizen then a trial by jury is your right prior to that happening. I agreed with you apart from this. For me, visas are probationary, citizenship is about belonging. It is for keeps; it is like being family. You may fall out with citizens, you may need to punish them, but you couldn't take away their citizenship any more than you could take away their identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinkla Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Personally I think there are many worse crimes than fighting in another country. I agree. Australian citizens should not be permitted to fight against the Australian army, but otherwise in a war involving the country of their heritage, why shouldn't Australians pitch in? If France invaded Britain, why wouldn't I be entitled to defend Britain? Or if the English sent tanks into Scotland, why wouldn't I have a right to defend the freedom of whichever side I choose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Maybe the laws needs to be changed then.. If people are given a chance and a home in a new safe country.....then choose to betray that country... well bye bye...you've made your bed .. Many if not most grew in Australia. Not migrants. Of course they should be allowed in. They are Australians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I guess if they were made to stay in the country they had gone to the issue would be solved because they wouldn't live to tell the tale. Hard way to learn a lesson but maybe that is how it has to be? I'd be uncomfortable readmitting them unless they were put straight into jail. The Russians and the Chinese could give a lot of advice about how to deal with anti-government personnel. A new camp in Marble Bar perhaps? I don't think anyone needs to teach Australia about detention centres they have proven remarkably apt on that subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Maybe the laws needs to be changed then.. If people are given a chance and a home in a new safe country.....then choose to betray that country... well bye bye...you've made your bed .. No we can not have political dogma to allow political ideology of the time to dictate who can and cannot live in Australia if born and a citizen. If a law has been broken, then obviously charge them accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I understand UK has had similar laws for a decade to what Australia is contemplating introducing. In UK the laws are used sparingly but a UK citizen born in the UK can have it stripped, forcing them to take out citizenship in the country of the parents, eg Lebanon or somewhere like that. I don't really like the idea personally, but in the UK it has only been imposed 27 times in 10 years and for the worst terrorist or hate preacher types. People who are deemed to pose a very serious risk to the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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