SimoneAL Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Hello folks:biggrin:. I need you Oz-enthusiasts and Gloomers to help me reconsidering the whole migration thing. There will probably be a window of opportunity soon 6-12 months to successfully apply for PR. Nothing too sure, but before investing time, energy and hopes in this I will need to be fairly sure I am not running 100 miles per hour into a wall. Here is my pros and cons: PROS - Not happy where we are, nor in UK. - We want to live in a English speaking country - We like easy access to nature and wide spaces - Fed up of long long winters and no sunlight (sunlight) - This is last chance, I simply will not have enough points in 3 years time - Not the first move around, we know how tough migration can be and how to handle it - Middle life crisis, I NEED CHANGE anyway CONS - In a perm role - Over 40 with a couple of forced career steps back - It will have to be a one way ticket, so to speak - No big pension and savings, enough for the move though - Even if I force myself to be realistic, I have the "live the dream" sindrome There is more, but no need for a 59 items list doh! Your thought? Write what you want, without abusive or overly negative remarks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi69 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I've read your lists. now yours is different to the OP running a similar thread. If your pretty certain you can gain employment I would def say come and give Oz a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauradarlin Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 If you're not happy where you are what do you have to lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 A couple of flaws in your reasoning I think, will go with those first. - Australia is big but we all live around the edges and it is just as built up as a UK town, I don't feel like I have any more or less access to open space here than I did in UK - sunlight /daylight. Probably the thing I miss the most, I long for long light summer evenings. It gets dark early here even in summer, it is dark by 7pm so at best an hour of light left after work, less in Queensland it is dark by 6pm there in summer. I winter, it is lighter for a bit longer, but if you are at work or travelling home from work, it doesn't matter. Of course every place on the planet has exactly the same amount of daylight overall - not sure what you mean by over 40 and a couple of forced steps back? Do you mean you expect to have to take steps back? In what way? Other than that, I think wanting to make the move and wanting a change is a great reason and carries more weight than some of the other items on the list. If you have the means and opportunity, then why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scrumpy Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Im off in September, and yes while people opinions in here are helpfull, do they really matter? You and your loved ones are the only ones who can make this decision. Personaly I think it could be the best thing I ever done, and if its the worst, is it really that bad?? I would say I have had 99% positive remarks from friends and family, everyones going to get the "I miss you dont go etc" but the end of the day the ones that matter are saying go for it! But we are not running away, we have a good life in UK, we have all worked hard and reaped the rewards, its just got to the stage where we fancy a family adventure, as all too easy to let another 10yrs fly by, and even though Im only in my 40s, to be honest there really isnt that many 10yrs to let go by!! Good luck with the decsion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 If its just you then by all means, take a career break, find an Aus job and suck it and see. You would be rather foolhardy to come without a permanent job in this day and age (read the posts on here about people who thought they would just walk into an Aus position like they always have managed in UK) - and you arent getting any younger - how far over 40 are you? There is an invisible barrier in Aus that slots into place around 50 and if you arent well established by then, you are often seen as over the hill although with age discrimination and all, no one is ever going to say that to you.If you have a family that's where the problems may begin - how old are your kids? What would happen to their education if you moved them out of the UK HS system and decided that maybe it didnt float the family boat and one or more of you wanted to return? If they are still in PS then you have a bit of a window to try things.I agree with Rupert - the short days in summer can be a real downer and most Australians live in suburbs sometimes quite a long way from where you will be working - Sydney and Melbourne cover IIRC a greater area than Greater London (several times) so lots and lots of houses covering a huge area. To get a home in one of the desirable areas takes a lot of moolah! Moving to Aus in your 40s doesnt give you a huge length of time to establish a good retirement pot and you could find yourself working far longer in order to retire. I understand about itchy feet, I really do, I have them in spades but at the end of the day you are still going to end up with the mundane aspects of life - the rubbish still has to be put out, the grass mown, the oven cleaned etc and you will need to work (check out probably less favourable holidays etc) in order to keep the wolf from the door. If you have a better opportunity then take it but keep your feet on the ground and remember that any dream is but one step away from a nightmare. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimoneAL Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 Thanks for the comments and thoughts, yes there are flaws in my reasoning aroung Australia. They are the reasons why I asked for and welcome your opinions, hoping to eventually become more objective and realistic about the whole thing than I am now. Some answers to some of your questions: - I am 42 with 2 kids, 7 and 3 yrs old. - I would move with family or nothing, although I might decide to go first to set things up a few months before (if i ever get the visa and decide to go) - Depending on the occupation list, I could go to Canberra, maybe Perth or Adelaide. Wife's relatives in Perth, it would be a plus. - I am on a perm job but not at the level of seniority you would expect if you looked at my CV. I had to get a jobs significantly lower than my experience/skill set a few times, dreams and high expectations do not pay bills as far as I know. - living in UK and NL, I did not enjoy the sunlight very often for at least 5 years. Cloudy, rainy, long and dark winters, statistically more miserable than average. That really put me off. Need to see the sun and not to have a winter-looking spring and summer..... Kids are in bed at 7-8, I would not enjoy sunlight after 7 pm anyway :wink: About pension and savings, they are pain points. They are probably good reasons NOT to move again. Another point giving me the headache is that I would like to give some stability to kids, as well as a country and a citizenship Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Not sure where this idea of getting dark at 7pm in Summer came from. Certainly not my experience in Melbourne. With daylight saving it tends to get dark around 8.30 or 9 pm or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 No daylight saving if you come to Perth. If you can get a job here in Aus i'd say give it a go. My hubby took a step back in his position when we came and says it's one of the best things he did, reduced stress levels. I initially took a step back and moved forward again pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinaisrar Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I had this said to me once and remained engrained in me ever since ......making a big life change is scary', but you know what's even scarier?.....regret and what ifs! the way i see it is is if it don't work it's an experience better to have tried than to look back and have what ifs. x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 From what you have posted, for me, it will boil down to career. Although I can understand your career in the UK isn't where you would like it to be. You need to research if it will likely be better or even worse in Oz. If it's better, then it might be a good move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incata Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Hello folks:biggrin:. I need you Oz-enthusiasts and Gloomers to help me reconsidering the whole migration thing. There will probably be a window of opportunity soon 6-12 months to successfully apply for PR. Nothing too sure, but before investing time, energy and hopes in this I will need to be fairly sure I am not running 100 miles per hour into a wall. Here is my pros and cons: PROS - Not happy where we are, nor in UK. - We want to live in a English speaking country - We like easy access to nature and wide spaces - Fed up of long long winters and no sunlight (sunlight) - This is last chance, I simply will not have enough points in 3 years time - Not the first move around, we know how tough migration can be and how to handle it - Middle life crisis, I NEED CHANGE anyway CONS - In a perm role - Over 40 with a couple of forced career steps back - It will have to be a one way ticket, so to speak - No big pension and savings, enough for the move though - Even if I force myself to be realistic, I have the "live the dream" sindrome There is more, but no need for a 59 items list doh! Your thought? Write what you want, without abusive or overly negative remarks... If I were you I would go to Canada instead. It is closer to the UK (even at its furthest point). It has lovely wide open spaces, lovely summers and cheaper to move to. If family get sick, it is easier to get back to the UK. Healthcare is cheaper, the quality of life is as good and the cost of living is generally lower. 98% of the population of Canada live within 2 hours of the border with the US, which is very easy to cross. If you ask why you want want to go to the US, it's because the shopping (clothes, electricals etc) are so much cheaper. Job opportunities depend on the province you go to and your area of expertise, but I found it a whole lot easier to get work than I have found it here (and I moved to Canada when it was in the middle of a recession). I'd say think again and look at Canada as it offers everything you want, yet is closer to the UK and cheaper than Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 You mentioned Canberra - it's one of the better places to live in Aus IMHO (although many wont agree) but do watch out - the largest employer is the APS which requires citizenship as a general rule for permanent employment (that has caught out a load of people in IT!!) and what is on the list of occupations often doesnt translate into meaning there is a job available. And Canberra is an expensive place to live so you would want to be sure you are moving into a job before you give up what you have got. Your kids are young enough that a move shouldnt be too devastating and you wont cut off any of their options if it doesnt work out. At 42 you should be OK - you're not over the hill yet LOL. So, what would you have to lose by applying? If you can get PR and validate then you still have years up your sleeve to make sure that the conditions are just right before you leap - ie get the job you want before you take a career break from your current position so you dont burn any bridges. Alternatively would your itchy feet be assuaged by a move closer to home, you dont have to trek across the world to a foreign country to get those needs met - maybe move to a more village setting which would definitely give you the access to nature etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Canberra can be freezing though, which I would find hard to cope with consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Canberra can be freezing though, which I would find hard to cope with consistently. But the cold nights are often followed by clear, sunny days....much more cheerful and invigorating than overcast, gloomy cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 But the cold nights are often followed by clear, sunny days....much more cheerful and invigorating than overcast, gloomy cold. Yes that's true. I've only visited Canberra not lived there, but I shudder at some of the overnight low temperatures like minus 6. We get lows of 2 or 3 degrees sometimes in Melbournes winter but not too many this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 We were sort of in the same boat as you. I was near 40, had one a 2 year old, both of us in good jobs, living in a small terrace house where the next move would have been a bit bigger semi in the same area but would have kept us broke. Couldn't afford a holiday abroad for the first time in about 20 years, summer was crap. Just got to the point where you start thinking is this as good as it gets? I'm here to tell you it's not. Didn't have the internet to do much research, just knew it looked like a place we might be very happy, sold up, moved over without ever going to Aus before. Loved it from day one and still have to pinch ourselves sometimes. We feel lucky to be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 If I were you I would go to Canada instead. It is closer to the UK (even at its furthest point). It has lovely wide open spaces, lovely summers and cheaper to move to. If family get sick, it is easier to get back to the UK. Healthcare is cheaper, the quality of life is as good and the cost of living is generally lower. 98% of the population of Canada live within 2 hours of the border with the US, which is very easy to cross. If you ask why you want want to go to the US, it's because the shopping (clothes, electricals etc) are so much cheaper. Job opportunities depend on the province you go to and your area of expertise, but I found it a whole lot easier to get work than I have found it here (and I moved to Canada when it was in the middle of a recession). I'd say think again and look at Canada as it offers everything you want, yet is closer to the UK and cheaper than Australia. My wife used to live in Toronto and we would have applied for there if we hadn't got in here. It's cold. That was enough to put us off. My wife liked it whilst she was there but says it's not a patch on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacaranda Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 I am going to repeat some wisdom (:cute:)that I posted on another thread!Nothing is ever a mistake or regret ok?You make a decision,at that time,with the best knowledge you have,thats all you can do!Don't get stuck into the "What ifs"either.That insinuates you've made a mistake,or use the word "should"as in "I should of blah blah blah"Nope,just don't do that to yourself!Make a firm decision,stick with it,and move on!There will only be problems for you if you look at them as problems!I prefer "challenges"!:wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ptp113 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Canberra can be freezing though, which I would find hard to cope with consistently. Always felt colder in Melbourne in winter as it's windier and damper. Also doesn't get the amount of sunshine the ACT gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candygirl Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 For what it is worth, I would research the job situation over there and really decide before applying for a visa whether you are 100% about going. The visa process is not an easy ride for everyone. It took us over a year to obtain our first visa, there can be a lot of stress and expense. I think your idea of perhaps going over before your family may prove to be a good one. We have a house that is nearly paid for and a good business and are both in our early forties, but with no kids. For us, this will be our third move overseas. We have been in Spain for 8 years. For us, life is just too short and we are not getting any younger and us and our families are all of the opinion that it is better to try rather than sit down in 10 years and think I wish I had done that. I would rather do something and if its wrong, learn from it than never do it at all. I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Canberra can be freezing though, which I would find hard to cope with consistently. Not all year round, spring and autumn are good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incata Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 My wife used to live in Toronto and we would have applied for there if we hadn't got in here. It's cold. That was enough to put us off. My wife liked it whilst she was there but says it's not a patch on here. Vancouver was very different. In the city itself it never dropped below freezing in the winter, and in the summer it was up in the high 20s/low 30s. The problem with Vancouver was the damp which chilled you to the bone. We would have gone back if it had been easy enough for my husband to get work, but it wasn't and I was silly/naive enough, to let my residency lapse, and by the time we were looking at somewhere to emigrate to, it would have been so much harder (and taken so much longer) to get residency than it did when I originally went out there. I like Australia, but I have never stopped loving Canada. It got to me in a way that nowhere else has ever done and I do miss it so much. I guess it was the first place I have ever found that I felt I belonged. I felt that I got Canada and Canada got me. Hard to explain as I have never experienced anything like it before, certainly not in relation to a place. It will always stay in my heart and I am looking forward, one day to going back and having a lovely long holiday there, so I can see all my favourite places again. I can't wait to do the Rocky Mountaineer - I've always wanted to go on that train and when I win the lottery this weekend :wink: I'll be buying my ticket first thing on Monday morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Thanks for the comments and thoughts, yes there are flaws in my reasoning aroung Australia. They are the reasons why I asked for and welcome your opinions, hoping to eventually become more objective and realistic about the whole thing than I am now. Some answers to some of your questions: - I am 42 with 2 kids, 7 and 3 yrs old. - I would move with family or nothing, although I might decide to go first to set things up a few months before (if i ever get the visa and decide to go) - Depending on the occupation list, I could go to Canberra, maybe Perth or Adelaide. Wife's relatives in Perth, it would be a plus. - I am on a perm job but not at the level of seniority you would expect if you looked at my CV. I had to get a jobs significantly lower than my experience/skill set a few times, dreams and high expectations do not pay bills as far as I know. - living in UK and NL, I did not enjoy the sunlight very often for at least 5 years. Cloudy, rainy, long and dark winters, statistically more miserable than average. That really put me off. Need to see the sun and not to have a winter-looking spring and summer..... Kids are in bed at 7-8, I would not enjoy sunlight after 7 pm anyway :wink: About pension and savings, they are pain points. They are probably good reasons NOT to move again. Another point giving me the headache is that I would like to give some stability to kids, as well as a country and a citizenship Cheers I think you are at a decent age for migration, but certainly if you are going to do this, I would be thinking sooner rather than later and don't procrastinate if you do get the visa. I can see now that you were referring to the weather "sunshine" not the movement of the sun and the daylight patterns across the globe "sunlight". Yes certainly many prefer the weather here, I bang my head against the wall when people seem to think it doesn't rain in Australia (most cities in Australia are wetter than UK), but indeed it does not get as cold and I see blue skies far, far more frequently. On the whole, I prefer the weather here too. But I do prefer the daylight patterns in the UK by a mile, imagine having light until 9pm or even 8pm, it would be wonderful here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyNook Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 .... having light until 9pm or even 8pm, it would be wonderful here. Where I am in Coogee, the sun sets around 8.10 pm at the height of the summer and it's not completely dark until 30 minutes later - so we have light beyond 8pm for a good chunk of the summer. http://members.iinet.net.au/~jacob/risesetsyd.html I know the Northern Beaches are north of here but I doubt that the distance makes that much difference to sunset times. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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